CMV: Men disrespect women and degrade the value of family and monogamy. The decrease in men getting sex is just due and caused by the manosphere

ColCrin · 2019-05-07T18:18:28+00:00

Hmm I don't think men ever needed to respect women or be monogamous to get laid. You just need to be attractive and attractive men are having more sex than they ever did before.

LowCreddit · 2019-05-07T19:20:11+00:00

This is only one bullet point in the list of reasons things are happening to men today but I don't see how any participant of the manosphere can argue that this isn't a monster of their own making.

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, women who became pregnant without being married were waist deep in shit. They had no way of supporting a child by themselves whatsoever. Adoption or abandonment were options but you still had to move away from the stigma afterwards. Because of this, women were very careful to only have sex after marriage or in relationships leading up to it. They had family with guns to make sure the boy went to the altar as well.

In 1960, the pill was introduced giving women a very effective contraceptive. In 1973, Roe V. Wade guaranteed 100% effective contraception. These combined to let women have premarital sex without the threat of a (sometimes literal) life ending pregnancy. Women were free to throw sex at alphas to entice them to commit for as long as was socially acceptable.

Throughout the 20th century, we were given technologies like vacuum cleaners, washers, dryers, microwaves, and other home labor saving devices. This freed up women's labor to reenter the workforce. Capitalists lobbied to bring women into the workforce in order to drive down costs. Women now had income streams. This means they needed less in order to support a family, therefore devaluing the income of betas.

People like to think it's all human enlightenment and social progress, but in reality it's just technology and market forces. Neither men nor women did this. The pill and the washing machine did.

Reisiluu · 2019-05-07T18:24:53+00:00

Men are decrying marriage because women are making it a bad deal in part through actions like racking up high n counts and then wanting to settle down with providers after they've already burned through their youth, doing those things sequentially, instead of simultaneously and in reverse (marry young when they're still beautiful get wealthy fuck the pool boy) like the good ol days.

Why be a provider to a woman whose youth you did not get to enjoy? You're right that men are upset because the previous deal, the deal many of them were trained for, by the way, is eroding.

Imagine your whole life is about adapting to worsening conditions for your gender instead of the one-way trip to utopiatown our society has laid out for women. You'd be mad too. Some women are mad even despite the movement toward increasingly positive outcomes for women. Give a mouse a cookie....

the_calibre_cat · 2019-05-07T18:33:34+00:00

Yet another woman trying to act like this only happens from men to women....

PEOPLE ARE SHITTY, NOT MEN, NOT WOMEN P E O P L E !!!!!

Being a misandric POS is no better than being a misogynist POS.

Aaren_Augustine · 2019-05-07T18:57:35+00:00

I'm sorry but this just isn't the case. Marriage is a very terrible deal for most men. I see a lot of women be the cause of this. MGTOW or the manosphere are the consequences, not the reason marriage is being degraded.

This is only one bullet point in the list of reasons things are happening to men today but I don't see how any participant of the manosphere can argue that this isn't a monster of their own making.

Wholeheartedly disagree. One party has way too much consequence and the other has far too little.

I think men gave too much respect to women, too much consideration.

shipiaozi · 2019-05-07T18:24:35+00:00

Majority of males are monogamous provider, it is alpha lover(not extremely rich/powerful beta provider) that caused polygamy and incels. Recently I wrote about polygamy and incels in West:

When I was a naïve feminist back in middle school, I was very puzzled about the fact that every culture advanced than hunter/gatherer relegated women's rights and power. Some sexism are reasonable at least in ancient times, but why all these hardline unreasonable discrimination become mainstream? It seems feminism society could perform better in war, for example, US in WW2 allow woman to work to get more labor resources against Axis Powers.

Now it's not really a puzzle to me. In most species male reproduction ability are extremely oversupplied and not useful, as a result females would only attracted by a small minority of males known as "lover" that polygamy is the norm in animal world. However, human's brain are too complicated compare with other primates and our children are extremely difficult to raise that female need help from male "provider", which is the real reason of monogamy. At the beginning of agricultural age, life suddenly become more difficult and raise children require more paternal investment. Gynocentrism Patriarchy society could raise more, better children and replace other societies one way or another. If a society value man's life as much as woman's life, loss of female population would cause population decline. If a society do not stop "lover" to screw "provider", providers would refuse to invest on children and cause population decline. Yes, single mother could raise passable children, but she would raise better children with a provider male, like most people in a Gynocentrism Patriarchy society.

Some society reformed into Gynocentrism Patriarchy, cruel laws and religions were invented to protect providers and gold diggers while suppress lovers and single mothers. Most society failed, alpha lover/incel/single mother in these societies get genocided or replaced. The process is very savaged, for example Hebrews/Huns/Yues sacrificed their first child because paternity uncertainty was too high until Patriarchy fully established.

What we seen in the West now is real equality: Gynocentrism and Patriarchy both declined, man and woman have more freedom to choose what they want, no one really get harmed except the future generations. Polygamy become tens of, if not hundreds of, times more common than traditionalism society like Saudi Arabia. Low birthrate, so-called "social decline", immigrants, TRP, incels and single mother all are part of this greater shift.

blackedoutfast · 2019-05-07T21:08:48+00:00

I don't see how any participant of the manosphere can argue that this isn't a monster of their own making.

lol the manosphere didn't cause all this shit. the manosphere is a response to it. men are just trying to make the best of the clown world that society has become.

a few generations ago, monogamous marriage for life was the norm and expectation. women weren't expected to fuck around and have lots of casual sex with different dudes, and the women who did that were shunned and shamed for it. women weren't expected to have careers, they were expected to be mothers and housewives.

and in return, men were expected to pedestalize women and take care of them and provide for them and give them security and commitent. and the men who didn't do this, the men who didn't take care of their wives and families, and the men who pumped and dumped women and used them for sex were also shunned and shamed by society.

but women didn't like this. they weren't happy (because women are never truly happy and content with what they have right now). they were jealous that men had jobs and earned money outside the home. they wanted to be able to have casual sex and fuck random dudes without getting shunned and shamed for it.

and eventually we reached a critical mass of pedestalizing white knight beta males, and those guys said "ok!" to women and started letting them do whatever they wanted. they were free to get jobs and be slutty.

but for a long time, men continued to keep doing what they had been doing. they still got married, they still pedestalized women, they still gave commitment and security to women, they still acted as providers. and they shunned and shamed the men who stopped doing all these things. many men are still like this.

but a lot of men started to realize that they weren't really getting anything out of all that. why be a provider and take care of a woman when she can (and usually does) have her own job making her own money? why give exclusivity and respect to some woman who has fucked dozens of other dudes without demanding exclusivity and respect from them? why get married and promise to be committed to a woman for the rest of your life when she could suddenly decide to divorce rape you and take half your shit at any random moment?

and yes, being a degenerate player who spins plates and fucks lots of random chicks can be fun, but it's really not very fulfilling. men have a very strong natural instinct to protect and take care of women. men want to build families. i personally would love to get married to some good sweet girl and have some kids and the trad white picket fence nuclear family thing. i would love to be able to be nice and respectful to women. but you have to be a complete dumbass to do that today. that's a loser's game in the society that we live in. there are no good sweet girls anymore. marriage doesn't mean anything anymore. being a chivalrous gentleman who takes care of women makes you an easy mark.

and if you think i'm against marriage and all that because i'm not attractive enough or rich enough, you couldn't be more wrong. i've had girls basically beg me to knock them up so they could have kids with me. i've had girls offer to be the breadwinner and work while i'm a stay at home dad. i could easily get married in an instant.

the manosphere didn't create this world, we're just trying to live in it as best as we can. women created all this, you demanded it and now you have to deal with the consequences.

IRunYourRiver · 2019-05-07T22:56:37+00:00

I think you have it backwards. Men discover the manosphere after the tales they've been told about what it means to be honest, emotional, hard-working, and respectable have landed them in a dead bedroom or much much worse. The manosphere is an outcome. Not a cause.

alilabelle · 2019-05-07T20:07:40+00:00

Being with unattractive, kind men is workable so long as they can bring value.. for women.

Herein lies the problem. When women view decent, kind, hard working guys as nothing but sources of revenue and provisions society has a big problem.

2019-05-07T20:27:48+00:00

Being with unattractive ~~unkind~~ men is a bad deal for women.

unkind men are actually quite successful with women

Women are just as superficial as men and the better you look the better her orgasm will be

If you're a short man you're never going to do well with women unless you're rich

None of these facts about women are new developments. They've been true since the dawn of humanity.

And all this hypergamy is hurting women

2019-05-07T20:48:51+00:00

I'm not gonna disagree that plays a role, I think what plays the biggest role is the internet. Before women and men were more limited on who they could seek out based on their location. Now location is less of an issue. OkCupid found in 2016 that 80% of women go for the same 20% of men, with Tinder showing similar results. Now that isn't the only cause, but it can show an uneven dating market online, with 80% of men piratically being ignored.

I will be fair and say it is most likely because women have higher standards, and men tend to be less picky so they choose more women, giving those women options. I mean, if you have 10 men at your feet, you'd only choose to invest time in 1 or 2 since the rest can be exhausting and not worth the effort.

An example: a woman held a huge rally for her tinder matches to "fight" for her, with many participating. You have to think, how few options do they actually have to go through with this?

There's a reason "The Bachelor" is more popular than "The Bachelorette", in the current dating culture we do not see women going for men like that, only men going for women.

So I think it's more so the dating culture, as it shows most men tend to get ignored

alilabelle · 2019-05-07T18:56:09+00:00

but I don't see how any participant of the manosphere can argue that this isn't a monster of their own making

"Curse all you guys for being poor and not looking like Jason Momoa."

You cannot be against relationships and family and then be consumed with bitterness about women and sex being a commodity. It is the argument of the manosphere that this is the better option.

Assuming you mean me.

It's not that I devalue relationships and family. FEMINISTS devalue relationships and family by expressly being about destroying them. When you reduce marriage to a one-sided contract where women gain money and prizes and men lose their kids and homes and you reduce pair-bonding to something only the top 15% of men are worth and even then it's "until I feel otherwise" it's not a good option.

You're making a shitty analogy. It would be like me arguing that being against women accepting Rohypnol-laced drinks around 10 rapist frat guys waiting with throbbing erections means you somehow are against sex.

immaculacy · 2019-05-07T19:04:34+00:00

Are you insane? How can you claim that the nuclear family is being degraded by men when the top 80% of women engage in promiscuous sex and gather a large partner count at younger ages than ever before, when only the top 20% of men do the same?

Men want nothing more than a monogamous relationship, it's women's sexual drive that is ruining the sexual market.

Femtards-are-funny · 2019-05-07T21:08:20+00:00

Lol. Honey. Sweetheart. The majority of women are losers. While the minority of men are losers. Don't get it twisted lol

2019-05-07T21:24:48+00:00

This is a gish gallop instead of a single proposition

Rather than reply to all the mud you are slinging I'll try to reply to the central premise.

Degrading/disrespecting women has never been a barrier to getting laid. It so obvious I'd consider it axiomatic.

The "manosphere" you blame does a better job of telling men why they have trouble with women.

The higher a persons (man or woman) smv is, the more flawed they can be and remain attractive. The guys complaining about lack of any romantic attention? so low in value nothing other than raising smv will matter.

I've said many times women dont prefer assholes, they just prefer guys more likely to be assholes.

Those assholes have no problems getting laid.

The manosphere didn't create the monster, it just explained it.

So is the manosphere detailing how women are evil? nope, but thats how some interpret anything that sounds negative, especially without a pr filter.

The monster is just the perfect storm of dynamics.

The TLDR is supply/demand combined with thirst. What happens when you shift the supply demand curve slightly to favor men? read this

So if its a "monster" how do we get rid of it?

All we have to do is wait. We have reached a point where the first time women are marrying down in terms of education. That's a sign that the status quo is slowly collapsing.

While waiting for the adjustment the low value men that distort the market need to drop out of it.

Bntt89 · 2019-05-07T22:39:38+00:00

So this fails to hold up because the Manosphere is actually a response to having less sex. So this is just a male hate thread really, similar to incels and MGTOW guys.

2019-05-07T23:17:04+00:00

Im married and still get a low amount of sex. Worst of both worlds :(

alilabelle · 2019-05-07T20:12:52+00:00

Please explain to me how men ruined monogamy when if you pick a random man and a random woman, 999,999 times out of a million, the woman will have a higher n-count than the man?

Yeah, good men don't want to settle with sluts. That's the resulting effect of women ruining marriage and monogamy.

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czerdec · 2019-05-07T19:06:54+00:00

So women who don't recognize the words that are connected with the manosphere are significantly more sexually active than those who do?

That's the experiment which will confirm or disprove your hypothesis.

Anyone wish to place bets on the experimental results?

2019-05-07T20:50:58+00:00

Mostly, you start with a false assumption and you work your way out from there.

This entire cesspool is the makings of the hubris of these men. Men who poorly understood what it is to exist without the benefit of a more sexist and biased society.

No, people and societies will always have biases and assumptions. Now, we are, quite foolishly I might add, working, by law, from a standard that women are exactly equal to men despite all evidences to the contrary, that is a rather explicit bias whether or not you wish to see that. What you could have said is that society, prior to this mess we have, made attempts to recognize the rights of the individual as important, but recognized that the family and the home were the basic building blocks of a society that could succeed. Why not? It has worked for centuries in Europe, Asia, America, and just about everywhere else it was tried.

Men have been operating, as they always have, with an air of superiority that used to be legally protected. The very men that diminish women for their own benefits now need to qualify as women always have.

Again, you will have to prove that it was legally protected. Men have always had to qualify ourselves. In the past, things like being a good earner mattered when women were necessarily going to be the other half of the equation that made the home work. Now, we have to be able to ask ourselves what a particular woman wants and then become a chameleon to at least mimic those wants, since a person's wants will necessarily change and sometime's quite often it isn't possible to be everything, so it's best to be what she wants in that moment and be gone before her want changes. It isn't what I would choose, but it is what it is.

This is only one bullet point in the list of reasons things are happening to men today but I don't see how any participant of the manosphere can argue that this isn't a monster of their own making.

No, mostly it wasn't. It was their grandfathers generations, mostly, that did it. Even then, it wasn't their grandfathers. The industrialists saw the rise of women not wanting to be the benighted and imprisoned stay at home moms. Those same industrialists were only too delighted to double the amount of worker's available which could only end up stagnating or cutting wages, in effect reducing us all. Now, women "have their own money" and don't look at a man as a provider, just something to make her feel good, and in our disposable society, he's gone if he doesn't make her feel good. Men that were wise enough to look at the situation merely adapted, rather than making being the guy with the income that would happily settle with one woman and build a life, that a woman can take away in milliseconds for any reason whatsoever now don't. Oh, these men may still have a few nice things and may be able to treat a woman if they like her, they just realize there are few benefits to compare against massive risks from a matrimonial relationship, so much so that it doesn't happen.

NockerJoe · 2019-05-07T20:56:03+00:00

You're vastly overestimating the actual active effort the Manosphere takes and you're getting it backwards. Guys don't join the manosphere then lose faith in marriage, guys who've already lost that faith are more inclined to join the manosphere.

I don't even post on those subs but I kinda get it. My parents have a shitty, toxic relationship and I really don't want that for myself. A dude losing everything in divorce isn't something they just made up one day but a thing a lot of people watched happen. Likewise guys noticing they have to jump through insane hoops while Mr. Aryan Supermodel just shows up isn't a thing they made up.

If men thought they could get a good or even neutral deal out of marriage then they'd go for it. But if the offer is basically ten years of a dead bedroom followed by losing all your shit nobody wants to do it.

Mattcwu · 2019-05-07T21:09:03+00:00

If marriage is such a bad deal

Why is marriage such a bad deal? Is it because government policies reduce the income of women who get married.?
Is it because divorce courts are unpredictable and thus scary for some?
Is it because divorce more encouraged than ever, why should I sacrifice the present to invest in something that is likely to be short-term?

Emervila · 2019-05-07T21:14:33+00:00

OP hopefully you can explain this to me

How's a community that is retiring from marriage bc they are incels, losers, beta providers the worst of men affecting marriage if per your own rules their are bad deal. They never been an option to enjoy a woman's prime nor the "mature" version for marriage? how can that be
If a bunch of losers are going their own way... why stop them? why PUA, Blue-pills, Feminist, Purple-pill people always trying to stop MGTOW? if they are useless for women than just say good bye
are men the only gender/sex disrespecting their counterparts? are women degrading marriage and monogamy or not? reads like women are just perfectly fine and these loser should play their roll raising bastard kids and completing the dual mating strategy

NockerJoe · 2019-05-07T21:25:49+00:00

Speaking as a man who's gotten less kind over the years it's because being kind god me absolutely nothing and all of the grossest and most boorish men I know get laid regularly and have no shortage of LTR's.

alilabelle · 2019-05-07T21:29:37+00:00

Women started consistently doing alpha fucks / beta bucks for at least 20 years before this point.

Men's reaction is actually quite late. Are you going to blame women in Japan not wanting to date the average man there on the manosphere too?

What shall you blame next? Porn? Video games?

-clickhere- · 2019-05-07T21:45:43+00:00

I believe you are being genuine, and want to find the truth, so my comment is intended to be positive, and to help:

If your statement was true (The decrease in men getting sex is just due and caused by the manosphere) then how do you explain all of history prior to 1960s. For all of history men were much more sexist, misogynist, etc. Women didn't have the right to vote until 1922, treated like property for thousands of years, etc. And yet, men had more sex back then. People paired off early in life, little divorce, etc.

Thus, history refutes your statement.

Why is this good news for you? Because it provides a solution, and i want to believe you want a solution to the current mess.

As you said, marriage is a bad deal for men right now, so they don't take it, so they sleep around, so women are valued by sex, and thus women are simply using sex to get the highest value man they can (which makes sense).

So it all STARTS with making marriage a good deal again for men. People used to pair off early in life (for thousands of years). If we go back to that model, everyone wins.

So, how can we make marriage a good deal for men again? If you can honestly answer that question, you will break free from the matrix.

NockerJoe · 2019-05-07T22:00:56+00:00

I think the flip side to that is that a lot of these don't really add value for men.

For a lot of guys who "check out" what it usually comes from is the realization they have to qualify and prove value to get with someone who isn't doing the same.

headchefboyardee · 2019-05-07T22:26:21+00:00

I think the expansion women's agency has decreased the value of marriage and the family. When people lived their whole lives in the states they were born in women had to chose from men in proximity regardless of behavior. Marriage provided some meager level of financial and legal protection giving a marriage cert a financial value higher than they could practically get their hands on. More proportionate representation in the workforce, and increased visibility on women's issues (especially younger women learning from older women) has decreased the likelihood that any woman has to make the unsavory choice to even meet up with a POS dude. Unrelated, I believe marriage sucks for both parties involved in a society where access to food , shelter, and medical attention are practically than ever before.

SilentLurker666 · 2019-05-07T22:32:43+00:00

The biggest problem I see in this post is that it views sex as a reward from women given to men for good behavior and I find that misogynist. This also contradicts your message against sex being a commodity.

OP better check him/herself.

Also if you agree that individuals are different, then you must concede the point that different people have different views and are entitled to live their lives differently, including to choose the MGTOW style of life and to view marriage as something that's not worth it for them. To place blame as to who causes what is really becoming "a chicken or egg come first" argument.

Edit:

Men have been operating, as they always have, with an air of superiority that used to be legally protected.

Citation needed

Women are always, historically, been operated as a protected sex in society. From "women are wonderful" effect, the court of law and conviction rate being favorable to women (especially family and divorce court).

Women cannot get onto Reddit without crossing paths with spirited men from the manosphere letting us know of our "depreciating value" due to age and attractiveness.

First there's always /r/twoXXchromonsone, and second please get off reddit once in a while.

santino1987 · 2019-05-07T23:00:52+00:00

Attractive and kind = loss of attraction from women

wtffellification · 2019-05-07T18:57:01+00:00

People this is not CMV. This is "fight me, I am right". I am outta here

the_calibre_cat · 2019-05-07T18:29:43+00:00

Women cannot get onto Reddit without crossing paths with spirited men from the manosphere letting us know of our "depreciating value" due to age and attractiveness.

lol

this is bullshit, you would literally have to go out of your way to find that kind of commentary on reddit - at which point, who's fault is it? and can that kind of rhetoric really be blamed on most of reddit?

This is the old "reddit is sooooo sexist" adage coming back. Because, to women, everything is sexist.

ScootsScoots · 2019-05-07T19:27:48+00:00

Society isnt granting women rights men have always had, its granting them privileges through the courts that men dont have.

Men have always needed to qualify, women have needed merely to exist. You're entire post is based on delusion.

abaxeron · 2019-05-07T19:59:38+00:00

Women cannot get onto Reddit without crossing paths with spirited men from the manosphere letting us know of our "depreciating value" due to age and attractiveness.

It's CMV, right? Yes, you can. Stick to TwoX, for example. Or to /r/eyebleach

Seriously, it's called "the Manosphere" for a reason. Like a sphere, it has boundaries. Its members get banned EVERYWHERE ELSE. Don't stick your dick in a wasp nest if you aren't ready for consequences.

We are told that we are the emotionally needy and that men prefer younger, ****able women to family and marriage.

Three years later, Pew data confirms that women are STILL NOT primary victims of online harassment. Grow. Up.

The outcome, it seems, in a society that now grants women rights the men always had is a natural retraction from bad deals.

Delusional statement on many levels. The concept of "rights" originated in the Age of Enlightenment and didn't come into proper legal existence until French and American revolutions. "Since late 18th century" is NOT the same as "ALWAYS". Men did not "ALWAYS" have "rights". This is a cheap, stupid, shallow feminist propaganda directed at people with intelligence, life experience, an literacy of a preschooler. Bringing it up here is simply embarrassing.

Men have been operating, as they always have,

Oh, sorry, I puked.

with an air of superiority that used to be legally protected.

Bullshit; another feminist propaganda, this time directed at people equal to an elementary schoolchild.

If this is all you are going to base your argument on, then I could safely leave here; I've already provided enough challenge. But let's see what else you have to say.

The very men that diminish women for their own benefits now need to qualify as women always have.

No. Neither men's survival nor even comfort are dependent on the presence of a woman in our lives.

This entire cesspool is the makings of the hubris of these men.

Hubris originally meant "defiance of the gods or of divine order". Do you consider yourself a god or a source of divine order?

Men who poorly understood what it is to exist without the benefit of a more sexist and biased society.

I don't know what to say here. Almost every sentence you wrote is filled with super-poor understanding of very basic things, such as "how time works". People who witnessed the world before feminism won - are at least 99 years old now; most of them are not on the Internet. People who witnessed the world before second-wave feminism won - are in their late 50s. Almost no men ever were "socialized" to live in what you call "more sexist and biased society" (a.k.a. when women were not paid for their existence because that's what they voted for).

This is only one bullet point in the list of reasons things are happening to men today but I don't see how any participant of the manosphere can argue that this isn't a monster of their own making.

Look, not getting laid and not getting married in our early 20s - is the SMALLEST of our (men's) problems, and, judging by historical graphs of divorces and marriages, the problem's onset predates the Internet by at least half a century, let alone the Manosphere.

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rus9384 · 2019-05-07T20:02:40+00:00

We are told that we are the emotionally needy and that men prefer younger, ****able women to family and marriage.

Is this something that need to be told to women? Women knew for ages that men love youth.

The outcome, it seems, in a society that now grants women rights the men always had is a natural retraction from bad deals.

So, when there is domestic violence and when a man is always the one who is wrong and a woman is the one who is right, even if she initiated the act of violence, it is equal rights?

Do you equate kind men with men wanting to be providers?

Men have been operating, as they always have, with an air of superiority that used to be legally protected. The very men that diminish women for their own benefits now need to qualify as women always have.

Wrong. Women hold higher standards towards men, than vice versa. And it applies to attractiveness as well.

You cannot be against relationships and family and then be consumed with bitterness about women and sex being a commodity. It is the argument of the manosphere that this is the better option.

The fact is, sex is a commodity within relationships. Exactly the fact that a woman marries a man for money and has sex with him to keep him in relationships makes sex a commodity. This fact disputes your OP.

If marriage is such a bad deal and women now have to consider choosing you without the hope of lifelong companionship, all that is left is your immediate value. If you are not attractive enough or not rich enough and you are against marriage, there is no reason to deal with you.

This always made me wonder. How do money make a man attractive for casual sex?

This is only one bullet point in the list of reasons things are happening to men today but I don't see how any participant of the manosphere can argue that this isn't a monster of their own making.

The manosphere did nothing, except giving men awareness that women mostly value them for providership. So, yeah, men now prefer to be single than to be valued for their resourses. But this hardly is a monster.

ohheyhi99 · 2019-05-07T21:04:45+00:00

I do agree that some guys around here aren’t helping themselves with their defeatism, but I’m skeptical of how common true MGTOWs actually are. I think MGTOW will exacerbate the sexlessness issue for a minority of sexless men, but not a large portion. I’m not well-versed on the manosphere, but it seems that most of them are still obsessed with pursuing women for sex and relationships rather than choosing to GTOW. Maybe I’m wrong.

Edit: In addition, there are tons of people outside the manosphere, including some female and male feminists, who are skeptical of marriage. It seems like a generational trend more than anything else. People arrive at marriage skepticism for many different reasons. And the social and economic trends that influence the marriage skeptics affect everyone else too.

meeselbon573 · 2019-05-07T23:09:58+00:00

It was obvious as soon as these statistics came out that the narrative would be “men are to blame,” because that is always the narrative.

Fortunately, that nonsense shaming tactic is losing its effectiveness.

OutOfOranges · 2019-05-07T23:58:49+00:00

No trolling

alilabelle · 2019-05-07T19:51:10+00:00

This entire subreddit boils down to a chicken or the egg argument.

Was it men who devalued relationships first which caused this mess, or did women becoming more promiscuous and socially "progressive" cause men to change how they felt about women/relationships.

I don't think we'll ever be able to agree who is really at fault here, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the breakdown in male/female relationships was a two way street.

Jackpot807 · 2019-05-07T20:27:58+00:00

Are you in college?

LilLoserFreny · 2019-05-07T21:31:45+00:00

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