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What is Alpha?

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December 11, 2014
138 upvotes

There was a recent thread where the topic of what alpha truly means came up, and there was quite a bit of disagreement. Many guys here fell into the trap of believing that alpha was the same as what they believed to be righteous. Righteous qualities = alpha. Alpha = role model. Somebody to look up to.

I want to quickly touch on the topic and dispel that rumor, because it's dead wrong and steers people in the wrong direction. Further, understanding what alpha means will help stop people from using alpha in place of role model or their belief of an optimal strategy.

I see people regularly use alpha to indicate that they believe there is one true alpha and one true path. This is wrong. As Rollo would point out, alpha is a mindset. The direction they can take may differ greatly and may put different alphas in mutually exclusive groups. Nevertheless they would all qualify as alpha.

From Rollo's article on Alpha:

There’s a tendency to approach every “Alpha” argument from what a guy thinks is righteousness; ergo, his personal definition of Alpha is what appeals best to his sense of virtue. He earned his Alpha cred, played by the rules, and by God people (women) should respect that. However, the sad truth is that prisons are full of Alpha males who simply channeled their drive toward destructive and anti-social endeavors. There are plenty of examples of indifferent Asshole Alphas who you wouldn’t say are upstanding moral leaders at all, yet women will literally kill each other (or themselves) in order to bang them because they exude a natural Alpha-ness. Just as Corey does here. There are Alpha drug dealing gang leaders, and there are Alpha husbands, fathers and leaders of industry. It’s all in the application. Genghis Khan was Alpha as fuck, and a leader-of-men, but probably would be on most people’s douchebag list for that era. Here’s an illustration:

http://rationalmale.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/venn-diagram.jpeg?w=300&h=282


Read the whole article here.


Post Information
Title What is Alpha?
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 138
Comments 127
Date 11 December 2014 05:45 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/26221
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2ozojh/what_is_alpha/
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[–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi58 points59 points  (6 children) | Copy

Alpha Tells: http://therationalmale.com/2014/11/02/alpha-tells/

For as long as I’ve been writing in the manosphere, the definition of “what is Alpha?” has been the number one point of contention I’ve had to state and restate the most often. I’m not going to rehash this now as I have several posts on the nature of Alpha already linked in the sidebar, so if you’re looking for my take on Alpha that’s where to find it.

However, to lead in to today’s post I need to address the basis of what I believe are the most common misunderstandings about the term Alpha.

Well before the inception of this blog, in the early beginnings of what would evolve into the manosphere there was a need of terminology to describe the more abstract concepts developing in the ‘community’. Some of these analogies and terms are still with the manosphere today, others have morphed into more useful abstractions; Alpha Widows, Hypergamy (in its true nature), the Feminine Imperative, even Red Pill awareness are all examples of established terms or analogies for understood abstractions. Among these are also the concepts of a man being Alpha and Beta.

From The Unbearable Triteness of Hating at CH:

  1. Etymology Hate

Hater: Your definition of an alpha male is false. In the animal kingdom, the alpha male is leader of the pack, not a cad/badboy/jerk who pumps and dumps women.

Isn’t it just like a nerd to get hysterical over the appropriation of a narrow-sense scientific term to conveniently illustrate broader truths about men and women.

One of the most common disconnects men encounter with the Red Pill for the first time is equating the term Alpha with its usage in describing the mating habits of Lions, Wolves or Silver Back Gorillas. It’s easy to ridicule or simply dismiss a valid, but uncomfortable, Red Pill truth when you’re simplistically comfortable in defining ‘Alpha Male’ in literal etymological terms.

This is the first resistance blue pill men claim they have with the Red Pill. They have no problem understanding and using abstractions for blue pill concepts they themselves are ego-invested in, but challenge that belief-paradigm with uncomfortable red pill truths and their first resort is to obstinately define Alpha (as well as Hypergamy) in as narrow, binary and literal a sense as they can muster.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Everything that has created that alpha behavior was caused by a man's own selfishness. Even me being on TRP. Ultimately it's because I want to have sex with women. Crazy sex. So my gerbil feels that my DNA is propagating. Otherwise I would just have incredible male friends who have interesting hobbies. My DNA doesn't propagate that way though.

And if we think about DNA propagation on a long scale? A hundreds of thousands of years scale? It can even be because you created one propagation and that one carried on for hundreds of thousands of years. Through the selfish act of wanting your own DNA to propagate.

Alpha creates behaviors that women's hamsters recognize as DNA propagation. So they want that cock inside of them. And they'll do anything for that cock to be inside of them.

And, selfishly, I want my cock to be inside of them. Not yours.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Alpha creates behaviors that women's hamsters recognize as DNA propagation.

The guy on the Beta path is attempting the same thing. He just gets it wrong - fawning over the woman and doting on her much the way she would do for a more Alpha guy. He reeks of neediness and desperation.

As Rollo so aptly describes in his article, the Alpha-Beta dynamic is often misconstrued as Alpha=masculine and Beta=feminine. It relates more to a man's status and power when he interacts with women. An Alpha leads the woman, a Beta serves her.

When interacting with a woman, a man reveals his Alpha-Beta status, and she responds accordingly. She is drawn to evidence of Alpha and repelled by evidence of Beta. Upon first meeting, a woman tends to fawn over an Alpha man. Meanwhile the Beta man tends to fawn over the woman.

[–]DCLdit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Becoming selfish is the trick!

And, selfishly, I want my cock to be inside of them. Not yours.

It's not that guys have to become an obnoxious prick, it's just that for most of the 'assholes' and 'jerks' they simply don't care about what other people think. That's attractive.

[–]DCLdit1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

From The Nice Guy – Jerk Spectrum

It’s exactly this mindset, this beta male default to the ‘nice’ end of the spectrum that 85% of guys subscribe to, that makes the guy who leans into the ‘jerk’ end of the spectrum attractive.

Jerks are attractive because there aren't a lot of them. But...

The real extreme Jerk is as rare as the real extreme Nice Guy.

I think for a lot of guys, myself included, this was a hard thing to come to terms with.

These are two extreme ends of the spectrum and when considering them after candid assessments, the mistake becomes falling into a binary all-or-nothing interpretation.

Not too hot, not too cold.

A comment left from that post asks...

Please expand on what this sweet spot on the spectrum looks like. I think your word “obnoxious” is a good one. That’s the point when a guy has gone too far towards the jerk end of the spectrum.

All of us here (should) know enough about 'Beta' traits that they can be easy to spot and inhibit.

For me, getting rid of the 'nice' has manifested itself as becoming selfish.

For example, I don't laugh at things that I actually don't find funny anymore or I'll blatantly ignore someone if what they are saying is of no use to me or is not catching my attention.

These are just some strategies I used to snap myself out of 'nice guy' territory and get rid of old supplicating habits and replaced them with positive mindsets and attitudes.

Rollo, do you think you would be able to elaborate on this 'Jerk Sweet Spot'.

Cool thread redillschool.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

BP'ers using the primitive, scientific definition of the word Alpha to rebut its existence remind me of creationists using the colloquial variant of the word 'theory' to dismiss evolution. It's laughably ignorant.

[–]BlueFreedom4201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why is the scientific definition irrelevant? Why should Tomassi get to define it for everyone? The use of the word "Alpha" is obviously drawn from the scientific use of the word. Humans are more advanced than animals but much of the same behaviors are found in animals esp primates.

I don't think Alpha and beta terminology should only apply to seduction methods.

[–]LeGrandDiableBlanc20 points21 points  (6 children) | Copy

I have always taken the stance that 'Alpha' is a contextual term, and it refers to the person with the most power in a given situation.

Bill Gates would be an Alpha Male in any corporate board room, but would NOT be an Alpa Male in a combat squad, on the street corner in Chicago, or on a traditional spear hunt for dangerous game.

Big Business Tycoon Alpha is not hanging out on Reddit or the manosphere giving advice, but there are a ton of contextual alphas that do have the free time to post on the internet.

Gym rat alphas who get laid all of the time for their bodies, club promoter alphas who work Thursday-Sunday, popular musicians, etc.

On another note, most places the average person is going to find themself isn't going to also be a place where you'll find multibillionaires, pro athletes, or whatever other apex alpha you want to insert.

It is enough to be the most alpha person in your setting, or even in 2nd or 3rd place with regards to securing access to the highest tier of mates. The guy who was captain of the high school football is no Tom Brady, but is Tom Brady at his prom, competing with him for popularity and status?

[–]1wakethfkupneo9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

This.

Think about this scenario (not at all uncommon): husband; in sexless marriage; cheats with his secretary/coworker/whatever; sex with her is crazy and enthusiastic ... how that guy fits into Rollo's description? Is he alpha or beta? The answer: he's both! Beta to his wife - Alpha to his secretary.

Also this: http://www.solvemygirlproblems.com/2012/02/alpha/

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because he selfishly just DNA propagated into his secretary while being able to live many more years and fuck (propagate) into many more women. He still has resources to fake offer them because some beta is going to raise that alpha mans child.

He wants to be beta with his wife because he is not being selfish by giving her nothing except his cock in her vagina. By refusing to commit.

[–]LittleCrazee0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This right here.

An "Alpha" can likely best be described only as the highest status male in a specific situation at a specific time as the context and thus the individuals status is continually changing in regards to the context which makes it sort of a meaningless term IMO.

[–]Scymnus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Context is important, but that does not mean there are not universal alpha traits. Being socially and physically dominant is going to get you pretty far in most situations, except maybe among PUAhaters and other omegas. Not that it matters, because you don't want to associate with those people anyway.

[–]bobbatosakosanose-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

yup. A punk rocker wont be as appealing to a woman who is more into Classical, etc.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (22 children) | Copy

I have taken on the challenge of writing a book on this topic.

I specifically will be focusing on what I call The Family Alpha and I have been met with quite a bit of flak here because of the fact that there is this preconceived notion that you cannot be married AND be an Alpha.

Not only do I whole Heartedly disagree but there is a sort of irony that the ones who are saying it is impossible to be an alpha while married are, through their actions, not being alpha. If a man owns his space, takes charge of the men and women he interacts with, and is doing what he feels he needs to do, regardless of the popularity of his decision, then he is, in my eyes Alpha. For someone to say ‘Nope, you’re married so you’re a beta faggot’ goes to show that they don’t understand that the husband’s life choices are his to make and if wife and kids are what he wants, then he is going to take that path.

Marriage does not remove all of the masculinity from the man. For most, they were weak to begin with and thought the ring on her finger allowed him to relax his standards, they were never Alpha to begin with and are not representing the group I’m referring to.

All married men, who choose to, can become The Family Alpha and run his family just as the Captain runs his ship, tight and according to his plan. Divorce is possible, but if you do it right many of the marriages that are currently on the path to destruction can be saved.

  • Take Charge
  • Be worth her attraction through lifting and self-improvement
  • Command Your Sex Life

These are but a few of the topics I have been writing about. I have a few chapters left before I’ve completed the first edition and will post periodically here once I make the initial edit.

EDIT I have a few things on my mind that keep floating around so I hope by writing it out it will leave my mind.

1 For some of us marriage was a tradition we wanted just as much as the woman. Some guys always wanted to have a Wife and kids and live that fairy tale. Why? Because men are the romantic sex, we all know this yet we still crucify the guy who says, “I want to get married”. I understand why we have such an issue with marriage, but our bigger issue is with the divorce laws and the stupid fucking whores who are ruining their husband’s lives. But again, the problem is the fucking hooker wife choosing to bail on their man instead of working on their marriage/relationship.

2 Marriage CAN be great. I am living proof that there are successful marriages. One of the reasons it works for me is because I do not take anything for granted. I love my wife, I don’t think she would ever cheat, but I KNOW it is always possible, and I use this knowledge to improve myself daily, to never lower my standards, and to continuously set the mark from which other men are measured. Dating for 11 years, married for 6 and last night she gave me a blowjob and shot that shit all over her chest and told me that it was hot. She’s had the same dick for over a decade and blowing me still turns her on. Those who choose marriage can make this happen, it just takes work and dedication.

3 Marriage is NOT easy and is NOT for everyone. As a matter of fact I do NOT promote marriage, but I do defend it. You can achieve almost everything from a LTR that you can from a marriage (almost). So don’t get married if you don’t want to, but don’t assume that every husband is a fucking AFC.

4 Just like a majority of single guys are beta, a majority of married guys are beta. But look at this sub, it is proof that there are men still out there trying to save the decline population of masculine men. This also applies to the married guys. There are some husbands out there who are doing it right and raising the next generation of Red Pill youth. Which, in all reality, means that they are raising their kids to understand right and wrong and what it means to be an honorable man and a woman. Red Pill just describes understanding reality for what it is and making the bullshit that is spewed from those feminizing our society transparent and standing up for what is right and not what is popular.

That’s pretty much it. Men need to be masculine men and fill the role they were born to fill and act the way they have been biologically programmed to act. Married, single, I don’t give a shit be a fucking man and own your life. If you take a woman and children into your life than lead them to a fulfilled and happy life as well.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think that it was Ian Ironwood (could be mistaken) that describes 3 categories of alpha: the bull alpha - screws anything that sits down to pee, the wolf alpha - patriarch, a leader, but of his family, which remain his highest priority, the bear alpha - the leader of men in a broader social context, i.e., business, social movement, etc. There is often a good bit of overlap between the bear and the wolf alpha.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for that, I was looking for where I had first been introduced to the concept.

[–][deleted] 6 points6 points | Copy

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You could have a beta marriage and beta children even today. Even in our gynocentric reality.

Success in marriage is not how to define alpha. Success in multiple children is how you define alpha. Successful DNA propagation. Success in marriage isn't necessarily alpha. This is high enough SMV, perhaps from assets primarily, to have sex with a woman.

But how did you get those assets? Because you had some level of selfishness to gain an enormous amount of assets.

Look at the dark triad personality disorders. They are at a level of bizarre and incredible selfishness. They will hurt you and it doesn't even register in their brains that this is a thing that just happened to you. That is how dark triads fuck many women and create DNA propagation. That is how their DNA had continued through our hundreds of thousands of years.

It's like game theory here. I should go write a post about game theory. Economic game theory.

[–]rpscrote1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Amen dude. Success in LTR is NOT a function of being unadulterated pure alpha. It is the delicate balance between alpha-primary-beta-secondary tension and comfort. You need sparing, skillful, subtle application of beta to succeed in an LTR

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're spot on. Just lead, we, as men, are natural leaders who do not fear confrontation but expect it and plan for it. I agree that being the best you 'alpha' is the only way to make a marriage work. The countless testimonies shows that. Is it hard, absolutely, but in my eyes it has been worth it. While I don't recommend marriage to anyone, it's mainly because I doubt any of the 'men' I know, have the strength to make it work, for life.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy

I can see how you can retain alpha status and still be married but let's not kid ourselves that it's a good idea. The marriage contracts are inherently flawed making marriage an bad decision in general. In my book, Alpha is the opposite of stupidity so you got to have one hell of a good reason to go through with it.

[–]Senior ContributorRedPope6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

I find it comical that you're trying to redefine Alpha as "the opposite of stupidity" in an article that clearly and vehemently denies such associations.

Christ, there's even a fucking Venn diagram.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

So what? I've read the article and there's a lot that I've learned from and agree with when it comes to Rollo. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything.

[–]rpscrote6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

bro, some points are rightfully matter of opinion. Thinking "alpha" means "not stupid" is a fundamental lack of understanding

[–]Turning_The_Corner1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thats fine. You can disagree. But don't confuse your disagreement to your alpha-ness.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've known many incredibly stupid Alphas.

[–]JakofClubs3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's the modern American legal construct of marriage that's a bad deal and the age old concept of monogamy and raising a family that's a good deal if done properly.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I completely agree, I made an edit to cover some of that as I felt my post wasn't bringing enough to the table. Sometimes I will think half and say half and realize nobody got the mental part of the message

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points | Copy

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

What you are talking about is a relationship between two people. Marriage is a contract between you, your wife and the government. There's nothing you can't have in the relationship that the state can give to you outside of tax benefits and other minor things. So why bother?

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hope you enjoy your relationship too.

[–]kevkos-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

How is committing for life over a present feeling a great thing? I'm sure you're happy with your wife but the whole concept of marriage crumbles when you look at what it is. Most people change a lot over their lives and there's no way to predict how you or your parter are going to be in 5, 10, or 15 years. If you change the exact same way at the exact same rate, good for you, you are one of the small minority.

Then you throw in the whole thing of signing a contract with the government to say you are committed. That makes zero sense for anyone, it should be between 2 people.

Then you throw in the fact that males in our society have nothing to gain from marriage, and a whole lot to lose.

Lastly, marriages are involuntary relationships, so they can become an obligation. If no contract, you are voluntarily showing up every time to be with that person. With marriage, you're stuck- you signed a contract, you MUST be there or face the societal/financial consequences that go along with divorce.

Marriage, to me, has no place in a red pill world where people are seeing things for what they truly are.

[–]LukesLikeIt2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Deep down behind the facade we are all afraid. Because we have no real purpose, no meaning. Sure we work and make families, pay taxes and contribute to the system. But it's all just a "game" we all get wrapped up in. Alpha's are the rocks people hold into. The candles in the dark. The people we are instinctively drawn to because said qualities demonstrate strength and ability to lead. We are drawn to alphas because humans are lost in a state of existential flux and we need leadership. TRP is taking advantage of this need. You can train yourself to exude these qualities and people will respond positively or test your mettle. There are those that get mad at this truth because it's conflicting with the nonsense they're fed by the feminine media crusade. Women don't want women. They want protectors.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Alpha Male behaviors include characteristics, attitudes, looks, and actions that make women wet for them. The Alpha is usually full of cocky, funny, confident, aloof, competent, charming, seductive, sexy, and masculine behaviors which is the main seduction trigger for women. The Alpha is cool and confident, eyes sweeping, not jerking. There are many Alpha behaviors that turn on women which are damn near antisocial and nothing to emulate such as the entire Dark Triad.

[–]1myTRPaccount8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I would love to go into this in more detail when I am not at work. I think this needs to be discussed and elaborated on because as it stands now, Alpha, as a term, has been kind of too much of a catch-all and has become a punchline at this point in time.

[–]LittleCrazee-4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. The way people use it is a joke. "Hey bro, did so see how Alpha I was? My Alpha-ness was off the hook yo!" Just plain silly.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a good post, especially with all the new members.

I've seen a lot of posts, upvotes and downvotes relating to what is popular morally, nowadays.

That's a huge trap to fall into. Just because you disagree with something morally doesn't make it a bad idea in the realm of sexual strategy.

This sub is foremost an exercise in effectiveness and efficiency, not how to be a pillar of your community (though you can certainly get aspects of how to do that from here, if that is your goal).

This sub is about becoming a man, period. And that can and has frequently throughout history been related to violence, bloodshed and abuse.

You, as a man, have to choose where to draw the line to make your best life.

Some people want to have rules that they abide by unflinchingly. Others want to be Frank Underwood.

Neither approach should be encouraged or discouraged, merely explored.

[–][deleted] 8 points8 points | Copy

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[–]ThirdLegGuy12 points13 points  (7 children) | Copy

Personally I believe we should just drop the very term 'alpha' and use high SMV instead.

[–]foldpak1117 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

And outside of this sub just say 'high status'

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

really? the bum that stoppes the thief while nobody else acts is the alpha in my eyes. but he doesn't have a high SMV. Please correct me if my definition if wrong, but i would say Alpha != SMV.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree with you. SMV, to me, is composed of looks - status - assets - game. Alpha or Beta have nothing to do with SMV. SMV is something completely different then Alpha or Beta. But the bum that stops the thief? That has nothing to do with Alpha or Beta either.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Betas can have high smv, just that, all things being equal, alphas have more. Betas outbreed alphas, because provisioning is very important. Beta = provisioning. Very few women would be attracted to Bill Gates absent his money and ability to make it, but he's got himself a fairly attractive wife. He has few of the physical alpha traits, but he shows a great deal of dominance in the business world, and is probably quite confident in his abilities to accomplish whatever he sets out to do. Alpha enough, and beta through the stratosphere.

[–]ITHOUGHTYOUMENTWEAST1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

People with low smv are not alpha. Alpha is partially based on how you view yourself, and how other people view you. That bum may delude himself into thinking he is the shit, but no one else does. He doesn't run shit, command shit, take control of anything in his life.

He'd be a good person, a hero even. Not "Alpha."

[–]1KyfhoMyoba0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The bum would be alpha only if women are attracted to him sexually.

[–]FemtoG4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

OP's post is always a good conversation topic, but everyone's reply is again, just going to be everyone's personal definition.

"Compromise your integrity and beliefs and values as little as possible"

That's about it in my opinion. Everything else is biased. Being a "leader", being aggressive, banging lots of girls, not giving a shit, all of these are too 'personal opinion' for me to think that it should be part of the definition.

Alpha should simply boil down to being the person you want to be.

[–]soccerplusaviation-3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

so if a man believes that women are not inherently sex freaks and acts on it and will never change his view, is he still alpha?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

He's alpha because his actions caused his DNA to propagate. How those actions were created is his alpha.

[–][deleted] 6 points6 points | Copy

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[–]JackGetsIt1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I actually like this description. My personal short definition is "Exhibiting masculine traits that men look to follow and women seek to mate with."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And he gets it because he's selfish.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

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[–]94redstealth1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

well said. I would also day, Alpha is not your actions, but your thought process that leads you to those actions.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly! The deep level of selfishness creates alpha behavioral cues for a woman's hamster to tingle her vagina. Did I do my insanely dangerous hobby, break my body, ultimately, for a woman? No. It was for me. It was an incredibly selfish endeavor that I deeply cared about even though I was told how much this "hurt" the people around me to see me go to such extremes even though I pushed through incredible pain and bodily sacrifice. It was inherently selfish.

Game lets us mimic such behavior. True alpha game is created by incredible selfishness. I mastered my craft not by altruism but by an incredible level of selfishness in that craft.

[–]hairaware1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I appreciate this if only to shut up the people on here attaching morality to redpill.

[–]BlueFreedom4201 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Alpha is a hard definition to nail, even in a short paragraph. To me Alpha is being dominant. Dominance can be natural superiority, uncontested superiority, or learned superiority.

The real questions: is an alpha someone who gets all the girls or someone who can kill every man he meets? So is being an alpha context based? Is poisoning all your rivals before a big race being an alpha or being able to out run them being an alpha? is being an alpha merely a social mean?

[–]crazytrpr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All those things and more. A real alpha is a person who followers entrust our lives and livelihoods too. Followers anoint an alpha for their benefit. The real alphas realize this and reward their followers. Follower(s), if wronged he (they) is (are) expected to "challenge" or "exact revenge" on the alpha or become the groups' omega bitch(es).

What RP is doing is trying to emulate alpha behaviors for mostly sexual gain. That's why it gets criticized so much, its only emulating alpha often ignoring what constitutes a real alpha and the role of the follower (who may be an alpha in his own social circle).

[–]1GreenPiller1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Simplified, Alpha: Becoming the strongest versión of yourself- Elliot Hulse

[–]RockyMountainTaste1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well first off, it is impossible to be alpha and be on the same level as a woman. There is nothing a woman can do to be on the intellectual, social, and physical level of an alpha. And an alpha must know that they are superior to women and act like it.

As far as criticism goes, who cares if the alpha hypothesis in wolves is wrong, nerd? Nobody wants to hear real science when talking in metaphors. Suspend your diabelief.

[–]kevkos3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

One problem I have with the term as used by many is the idea that you're either "Alpha" or "Beta". Not true. Just like introvert/extrovert, it's a sliding scale. Most are not 100% either way, some are in the middle and there are many along the spectrum. Labeling people one or the other doesn't help anyone, as if there is some wall you have to crossover to achieve Alphahood.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The problem I have with how Rollo uses Alpha/Beta is that the lines are so blurred that you could substitute Alpha/Beta for Extrovert/Introvert and the entire thing would still make sense, since by definition a natural Alpha cannot ever be introverted (because loud, proud and follows his hyper-masculinity), which leaves the beta role to introverts who are contextual alphas in their various roles in life.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This has for a long time been the bane of discussions here.

[–]HermitXenotrope1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a very interesting idea to me growing up in non metropolitan areas. In my home town there was this 30-something hippie dude that was super laid back, nice to everyone, and an all around go with the flow kind of guy. And he was dripping in pussy. All the single (and some not single) ladies had a go with him at one time or another. I guess you could call him more of a love guru. Point being, he was neither confrontational nor concrete in his convictions, just attractive to the ladies and (dare I say it) an all around nice guy.

[–]LittleCrazee0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Any time I read an article or comment that uses the term "Alpha-ness" I can't help but disregard the person's opinion because it is such a stupid descriptor it pains me to even read it.

Also, there is no such thing as an "Alpha" except in the minds of people who subscribe to the idea. Yes, there are certainly people whom those who are familiar with the terminology could say are "Alpha" because of certain qualities they possess, but it is only based on what the people judging them can see of that person. Nobody can really know how that person acts in private except their family or close friends but even then, it's not a complete picture. It then comes down to a rating system based on how many "Alpha" qualities or moments other people have observed this person having and them judging this person's qualities to be what they perceive as "Alpha". The thing that makes it almost impossible to describe is the fact that the term "Alpha" is defined by the beholders predetermined definitions of what they believe to be "Alpha". This makes "Alpha" a nebulous target which can never really be hit unless a majority of the people observing the "Alpha" in question agrees which is silly if you ask me.

Be confident, be strong in your convictions, be attractive, be charming, be ever improving in your work and life's pursuits and stop worrying about being "Alpha". It's a vague concept used to encapsulate these qualities and others but should not be viewed as the end game.

Probably could have fleshed this out a bit better and provided more salient points but I'm on lunch while writing this so in a bit of a rush.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I agree with some of your points, but I can't agree it's and abstract concept that only exist in the mind of some people to describe a set of qualities. Unless you're saying theres a multitude of men walking around with this exact same set of qualities.

I've know two or three dudes, one being a frend of mine, which is naturally different to the other man around. They are always cool, calm and collected, people look to them to as what to do next in social situations, the are always calling them to hang out, and always want them around yet they aren't extremely funny or have money.

They are always respected and never bullied even though they are never aggressive. Poeple (including women ) are naturally attracted to them.

Yet they have no defined values, no principles, don't have a great career. They didn't learn any of this shit we read daily, aren't in that good shape, yet all this social power comes natural to them.

It's who they are, it's not abstract and not simply the opinion of the observer, it's not just five or six different qualities they have, they affect people around them in different ways than most dudes. This is alpha to me, not being ripped, charming, handsome, rich, smarter and always excelent in your work, just a naturally and effortless dominant leader even if he is not that smart, poor and a garbage or mail man.

I don't know, maybe, I misunderstood you.

[–]LittleCrazee1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I actually agree wholeheartedly with you that some people are generally perceived to just "have it", but again, these same people are not going to be able to lead everyone or be dominant over everyone so it goes back to being simply a consensus because the people who aren't impressed or led or dominated by these "Alphas" would not describe them as "Alpha".

It also still comes down to what really makes an "Alpha" which you still didn't adequately describe other than a vague ability to lead or dominate but again, that's your opinion of "Alpha" and there are 80,000 other subscribers to this sub who likely have a differing opinion on what constitutes "Alpha". I just don't think that "Alpha" is a relevant or usable term when it means so many different things to so many different people.

My question then is that if people who lead are leaders, people who dominate are dominant, people who charm are charming, do "Alphas" alph? What exactly do "Alphas" do?

In my opinion it's a silly descriptor that only those who really aren't wish to be described as.

Your examples of "Alpha" also, at least to me, makes pursuing it as a goal something which is unattainable. You either have it, or you don't.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

My description is vague because I can't quite put my finger on what it is that makes these people have this power, I just observed.

My question then is that if people who lead are leaders, people who dominate are dominant, people who charm are charming, do "Alphas" alph? What exactly do "Alphas" do?

They don't do anything, they are. Thus it doesn't matter the environment, the situation or the people involved, they still will be this rock. Think maybe of Putin in a beginners guitar class, where people will perceive him as lower status because he can't play shit, he still will be the same man inside, because it's independent of the context, it's a self referential way of seing the world. The power emanates from inside. They don't look externally to get clues on how to behave, they are the source.

I know it sounds ridiculous, i'm just trying to describe the way I see it.

That being sais I also think "alpha" is a ridiculous term and should be substituted by Real Man or something, but I can understand what they are trying to describe with this word.

[–]LittleCrazee1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I understand it as an idea or concept as well but the word itself has always seemed to me to be just too try hard.

Again, those who really are "alpha" likely wouldn't go around describing themselves as such. They are too busy living.

[–]LittleCrazee0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was out last night with my gf and her friend and her friend's husband. Her friend's husband has "it". He's turning 41, 6ft1" tall, jet black hair, square jaw, real good looking, fit, makes over 100k a year and was a vice and undercover cop for 12 years. The kind of guy that women's panties just drop for. He's also a really gregarious and friendly guy and we get along great. Almost everyone he meets likes him. The thing is, he's a total bitch with his wife. She is loud, irritating, bitchy, and walks all over him. This lack of respect from his SO would automatically qualify him as a beta among pretty much everyone on here but he still has the "it" factor. This sort of example is why the term alpha to me is so stupid. It means different things to almost everyone and it's meaning can change depending on situations and context.

This post and all of the debate surrounding it is just silly and pointless if you ask me.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy

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[–]1oldredder1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

ALL life is a burden in every position, time, relative power struggle, every variation. Those who have the instinct to handle a particular context well no longer have a burden because that's their optimal, natural element.

[–]Stationarity0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Some thought provoking comments, so I'll post my take. An alpha is one who believes he deserves the best regardless of others' doubts, and who's thoughts, words and actions are congruent with his belief.

[–]moderatorsAREshit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Correlation does not always equal causation, so it is important to remember context. If you were thinking of wild animals, would you question which ones act which way and which ones don't? They simply ARE. While not the exact definition we tie to alpha and beta, the situation may unfold so that every animal is alpha, but only becomes beta when surrounded by the right social constructs.

Much in the same way that men today are being taught lies about attraction and drowned in feminist media, beta has always been a construct of society. You aren't meant to do ANYTHING, much like wild animals. Your outcome depends on your behavior.

This is why maintaining frame is important, but it's even more important to detect when you break frame, so you can fix it.

If you break frame for someone, who is to say you won't do it again? Worse, yet, in front of your SO.

Much like some stupid men, women don't have a filter for their emotions. They just are. I had an interesting discussion with my mother about how she understood that what she told me was wrong about dating. She legitimately thought that every woman wanted a man that would romance her. While women may think they want that, she also understood that this is not what drives attraction to begin with.

This is why I believe love to be such a dangerous feeling for men. We get so entrenched in our emotions, that we lose our frame. Sometimes, when we fear rejection the most, our greatest successes can be won. Nearly every time I have put my foot down, I have had a momentary LMR from my conscience with a pang of guilt, but every time I have gone through with it, I have felt better about myself as a man to the point that the outcome doesn't even matter. Believe it or not, the most satisfying and rewarding times in my life, have been periods of extreme selfishness. It's a cold world out there, men. You can't afford to not be selfish these days.

Social constructs aside, trying to get back into that frame is what becoming red pill/alpha is all about. Take the plunge, adopt the mentality, live the lifestyle and never look back.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've also perceived in that thread that people assimilated alpha with what they consider the "ultimate man" with all the good qualities they imagine the ideal male should have and laughed at OP for thinking the subject of his story was alpha yet in jail for being violent and aggressive.

All I can say is, from the description OP gave us, in a group of that dude and 100 average chumps he would probably be the alpha and leader of the group.

Maybe no class, frame or coolness, but old school, natural alpha.

[–]bobbatosakosanose0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What about power? George W Bush was socially unskilled, but had massive clout. Would that be alpha?

[–]rpscrote1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Socially unskilled? Are you joking? The dude became the President of the United States... de facto social skill status. He is definitely alpha. He used a special associative memory technique to remember every name of people at galas/fundraisers because he knew the impact of remembering a name... Yeah. Super unskilled.

Every POTUS is or was an alpha. You don't become the leader of the most powerful nation any other way

[–]1KyfhoMyoba-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, it would not. And Bush 43 was considered to be quite socially skilled by those that knew him. His father found his political skills to be extraordinary. He was, however, inarticulate, and that's probably how he got labeled as socially unskilled.

For the record, I hate him.

[–]marlybarrow0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

But isn't Alpha a relative term as well?

Kind of how not everybody can be royalty, not everybody can be alpha.

So every man in the room can have an Alpha mindset but when it comes down to it, some men will be at the top, some men will be at the bottom and most will be in between.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How does any of this help us define alpha behaviour? Apex fallacy is real and the paretto principle. I know that these are real. Is the alpha simply the definition of the man who reaches beyond apex fallacy? Who is the above 'average' 20% in women's minds?

Yes. I belive it is so. But how did that man reach the top man who women want to fuck? By being selfish with women and altruistic with men. By optimizing his game theory.

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy

Rollo also said it's alpha to never mate-guard.

That's the biggest load of shit posted by him yet. I understand it's a trick to sabotage betas and I upvoted it for having it as a template to trick them for entertainment.

Alphas lead, control, are aggressive, clever and maintain it and do so by instinct.

Betas supplicate, show weakness & plead forgiveness, mercy because they don't have the strength of body or will to be aggressive and they do so by instinct.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I would agree that a certain level of mate-guarding is alpha, so long as it's not just ineffective supplication. Where did he write that?

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

mate-guarding & supplication are opposite.

Supplicating is where you say & do things to show you serve/worship.

Mate-guarding is where you physically intervene in other men trying to get your woman (or women) away from you (for good)

Takes too long for me to find. I have like 10 minutes. look at http://www.reddit.com/user/Rollo-Tomassi

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I can imagine a beta trying to mate guard by getting confrontational and desperately jealous when an alpha is wooing his girl. Obviously getting his ass beat.

I'm familiar with mate guarding, I'm just trying to consider a situation in which it would be beta.

[–]1oldredder-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

That's not what betas do.

Betas give up and let the alpha take the girl.

There is no beta mate-guarding. It doesn't exist.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Oh you better believe betas will act out in completely ineffective ways in a spurt of jealousy.

The difference between an alpha and a beta, is the beta will come from a position of weakness. His actions will look sad and pathetic. He is coming from a position of no attraction, and his hope to is clasp onto what he can through bargaining. He wants to negotiate attraction. He thinks he can "win" attraction, even by acting out.

That's not exactly mate guarding, but again, I'm just trying to consider a situation in which it would be beta.

[–]1oldredder-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

the angry beta male, having lost what he wants, will act out against a woman. Not alpha men. The beta will back down in fear of the alpha's dominance. Always. That's the very definition of alpha vs beta.

[–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

You need to get a better understanding of what mate guarding behavior entails, when it most commonly occurs and why it's triggered in Beta men:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/unify_uploads/files/haselton_gangestad%20annotated.pdf

Mate guarding behavior and the motivating mindset is an evolved set of behaviors Beta men are subject to by necessity. Mate guarding behaviors are psychological contingencies for hypergamy.

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

beta men do not exhibit mate-guarding. They fall flat the fuck down because they can't guard shit - that's the beta of its core nature.

Your trick post to get betas to back down even faster in the face of alphas taking their women right out of their arms is amusing, funny, a trick I will use - but it is just a trick. No alpha ever permits a woman to be taken from him. Ever. The very act denies him being alpha.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

beta men do not exhibit mate-guarding.

I've seen it. I met this couple in their late thirties at a wedding reception, and the guy was so fucking beta. His girlfriend was sitting next to me, so I chatted with her a bit. I wasn't being seductive, but I'm very capable of holding a masculine frame in a social setting.

This guy started getting very protective.

It was pathetic, because he came across as desperate and clingy. Coming from a position of scarcity, he acted insecure, needy and possessive. It was like all the aggressiveness had been sucked out of him. His mate-guarding style came across like basic cock-blocking.

Regarding his mate, the beta feels threatened by his own shadow. He doesn't confront AMOG's, but he hovers around his woman being overly-attentive (like a helicopter parent), trying to keep her from trouble.

[–]1oldredder-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Being desperate & clingy is a sign of non-guarding weakness. Wanting to mate-guard isn't the same as actually pulling it off.

[–]NormanoSilurian-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Oldredder is correct. No alpha would ever allow his woman to be taken.

As if the silverback would allow some young turk to take his mate - like hell he would, only over his dead body.

[–]crazytrpr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oldredder is correct but he will do it in a non clingy way. He may break the relationship off with her after he tells the guy to fuck off.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Alpha denotes a man determined by his desirability. There is some nuance pursuant to context as Rollo notes, but as far as sexual strategy goes, the man who generates the most desire in women is the most Alpha. That's it.

A criminal thug can be more Alpha than a community leader. Not all Alphas are role models; they only denote what's successful (in a given context -- a criminal thug is likely not an Alpha as far as financial success goes).

I'm glad you made this post, RPS. Re-defining the term Alpha is starting to seem like a subversive attempt at policing this sub, and steering it to more PC waters. I'm not sure if we should be reporting those threads, but I'm starting to see them on the same level as tone-policing.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

the man who generates the most desire in women is the most Alpha. That's it.

That sums it up. It's the primal lust response of a woman that indicates a guy's Alpha status to her. And one woman's irresistible bad boy can be a fucktard loser in another woman's eyes.

Occasionally you meet a guy that can just own any room. He has this amazing energy. All the guys want to hang with him, and all the women want to sleep with him.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy

Alpha is really simple to me now. The alpha is the selfish man. The man who does what is best for him, or what he believes is best for him, at all times. That's it. That's the base definition.

He may or may not care what other people think. That has nothing to do with being alpha. It's just the selfishness. If he's a smart alpha then he will care, selectively, about what people think simply because it is what is best for him. That's it. The alpha always does what is best for him. And he doesn't even think about it.

So be selfish men. Be alpha men. Beta men are no longer rewarded. Be selfish. Do what is best for you at all times.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The alpha is the selfish man.

Rather, the alpha is the abundant man. He doesn't desperately chase after women and do stupid shit to sustain a relationship. He doesn't give a fuck because he has options and doesn't consider sex the paramount thing.

If a woman isn't making his life better, he moves on.

The beta dude is a selfish man who pretends not to be. He doesn't do kind shit because he's kind. He does it attempting to earn/sustain access to pussy. His willingness to contort himself for her benefit, just to get sex, makes him both fake and weak.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

We know a few things about alpha men, right? That women want to fuck them and don't even care about their commitment or benefits. So how do women recognize what is the alpha? How do they perceive it? They do so by recognizing traits that show a deep underlying selfishness of that man.

Why are we always telling men to go read NMMNG? Because it helps cure them of their pathetic giving nature and teaches them to be a little bit more alpha.

Perhaps we should analyze the male traits that women recognize and place in the alpha category and what causes these men to exhibit such traits. Though I have done so many times and wrote FRs about it on my old alt. Every alpha trait is created by selfishness.

Some alphas are of such low SMV that they don't get anything but low SMV women. But they still fuck them homeless women. I've seen it happen. Some alphas are such high SMV that they fuck models. I've seen it happen.

What was the same about all of them? They were incredibly innately selfish. That's it.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Actually, it's the indicia of high testosterone that women are attracted to. Physically: heavy brow, deep voice, strong jaw, high muscle to fat ratio. Behaviorally: dominance, either physical or social, and outcome independence (this can be expanded a lot - confidence, for example, is subsumed in outcome independence). The only one of these that might correlate to selfishness is dominance.

[–]Scymnus1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Actually, this is the base definition:

Being the highest ranked or most dominant individual of one's sex.

However, I agree that selfishness is a great way to achieve that status.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think alpha really does mean selfishness. I mean different alphas get different SMVs of women but they are getting the same number of women. And I think the black and white Alpha vs Beta distinction makes a difference in the way we are trying to define this. It's not that you are alpha or beta. You are some level towards the beta side or some level towards the alpha side.

You are sometimes interested in helping other people for them alone or you are more often not interested in helping other people. At a base level. And stemming from that comes behaviors that women's brains recognize as that alpha status. He is acting this way, ultimately, the hamster spins, because he cares about himself. And caring about himself is what can lead to great gains for her children. For her DNA.

It's really just women responding to deep signs that a man may be able to Genghis Khan and have 500 kids. Or the Mormon leader Brigham Young to have 53 kids.

If we want to define alpha in a way where it relates to few traits, to pull back and back, and to see how women's hamsters try to recognize alpha then I truly believe it all stems from selfishness.

I see this in my plates. I see this in my women (all trp test subjects) friends, I see it in my male friend's women. On some level everything women actually respond to, everything that actually gets their vaginas to move at all, from dry duty sex to rabid sex festivals, all of it comes from some level of selfishness. Even duty sex I selfishly took from my ex wife. Even that small shit of duty sex. But it's still sex and in the hamster sex = children. Children = DNA propagation. And genetics to optimize more children.

SMV matters. Game matters. But alpha/beta is something completely different from those things. It is something that causes you to create those things.

I mean if I wanted to be a full on beta I'd go around buying women shit for no reason and just giving it away. Because I'm not being selfish. Sure perhaps I am a beta orbiter and believe that giving my shit away will lead me to DNA propagation but my unselfish actions will not get that woman to want my dick rubbing around inside one of her holes.

Or perhaps I just look at woman, smirk at them, never buy them shit, and then fuck them in a back hall. Why did those women want to fuck me in the back hall? Because of traits I developed through selfishness.

[–]Scymnus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The problem is that it's dangerous to change a definition to fit your own narrative. You're not supposed to change the world to fit your own idea of what TRP is about, you're supposed to change yourself to fit into a world full of RP truths. Sure enough definitions of a term change with how it is used, but what will not change is how women react to men's behavior on a biological level. The current definition of alpha fits into what women are looking for in a man, and therefore we should not try changing the definition of what alpha is.

There are several traits that help you achieve alpha status, some are core concepts and some are contextual. Selfishness is one of the core concepts, if you want to get to the top you need to put yourself there instead of others. It seems that selfishness is such an important trait for you to achieve alpha status that you mix them up. Alpha is a state acquired by traits that are defined by a set of actions. They are not the same, but you need selfishness to achieve alpha status.

EDIT: Let me put it like this: You can be selfish without being alpha, but I have yet to see an alpha who wasn't selfish. If they were the same all selfish men would be alpha, but they're not.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes the definition of alpha causes so much discord in the manosphere. I choose to define it as a deep subconscious selfishness. This is the way I've come to understand alpha. It's simply how often I'm selfish. And I'm not always selfish. Especially in committed LTRs. I've been a giving provider before. But you have to demonstrate that you can survive a selfish wave by demonstrating selfishness to women hence alpha behavior.

[–]chowbluent-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This might be controversial, but in modern society I consider mental and emotional prowess much more important in determining alpha status than physical prowess.

The real alpha is not always who you would expect. They may not be the strongest or best looking guy in the room. The true alpha is the man who's most effective at providing perspective and advice in life. This is the guy who everyone respects, and who they strive to be like. He may not be the showiest guy or wealthiest guy, but he's the guy who has his shit together; socially and financially. He's the guy that you go to for advice when something happens in your life. The alpha isn't necessarily the leader of the pack; a true alpha has no interest in leading for the sake of being the leader. But he does guide people's interests, and underneath the veneer of society he is someone who influences others in a positive way.

An alpha is a man who transcends the bullshit. A true alpha realizes what is important- creating a better society and caring for himself, his family, and his friends. He is not someone who uses backhanded techniques or manipulates. A true alpha doesn't have to game women, because they are attracted to his genuine personality.

Alpha status definitely depends on physical stature and abilities. But physical alpha status does not guarantee someone to be a true alpha in my eyes. I've met plenty of gym bros who have a work ethic in the gym that I respect, but I do not consider to have alpha mentalities. I think that maintaining a good physique and caring for your health is important, but alpha status depends much more on how you interact with other people.

[–]newlifeasredpill-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very interesting discussion. It reminds me of a famous quote by Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart when establishing the threshold test for obscenity.

"I know it when I see it"

ALPHA seems to be at least partially subjective and it lacks clearly defined parameters. Yet all of use here who have lived life and tasted the pain of THE LIE and swallowed the bitter pill know alpha when we see it.

[–]lubricatingglue-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This whole thread...

Saved.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ok I've been obsessing over this in my gerbil for a few days now. Defining the alpha is so important for red pill men. We keep arguing about this. Because alpha behavior is the ethereal that just means we are fucking more women then other men. That's it. And we keep applying what helps us fuck women by what we see is causing us to get to fuck women the way we want to.

It's obsession. That's alpha. The alpha is the extreme man. Who pushes himself to the limit in everything he does. Who pulls back where he can because that energy is better served to push yourself into where you want. Because we all want that crazy sex in the back hall. We all want a woman to suck our cocks in the parking lot. And we all got that by being better then the men around us. By pushing ourselves further then them.

And isn't this good for our DNA? To push as hard as we can.

Sure it's fun to rage against the FI where women won't fuck us hard because we give them BB. Sure it makes me fucking mad. But that madness pushes me to higher obsession. Do some men, many men, go over the edge and end up dead? Yeah. That's the alpha. He pushed himself farther then you.

Do some men push themselves and fuck hot women regardless if they have a boyfriend or fiance or husband or whatever? Do we realize our wives, even our wives, are our plates?! They are all just plates. When I've forgotten this I have been destroyed.

So I'll be selfish. But I'm selfish because I'm extreme. I conquer what I do. I work my fucking ass off and this causes me to be extreme. I see other men and push myself past you. I'm trying to push past you.

There are male spaces where we can collaborate. It's to keep each other safe while the extreme men, the red pill men, push against whatever their base definition is. Women create culture and men push that culture to a higher level. Because I'll only fuck women who are extreme and hot as fuck. And I'll go be extreme. I'm hard back in my hobby where I am the alpha. Where I am the top man. I've seen other men literally commit suicide due to their obsessions.

That was an alpha man. He obsessed but he lost.

Go find your obsession and focus on it. You are going to be the best you can be. Push the limits. If we listen we hear this every day. Men push the limits. Women control the limits. Am I mad that women have this level of control right now? Who cares? Cause I'm just busy fucking your girlfriend, fucking your wife, and living at the limit of the times. I can't change where you chalk the line. But I can step over the line time and time again.

I'm thinking now that the alpha men are simply the men who push themselves farther then other men. We live in the top 20%. Dream our blue pill dreams and live in the present. Fuck women at your job. Have plates come over and fuck you, clean your house, and leave. Because you are extreme and obsessive. Because we push our genes into a higher level.

Sure the FI wants to reign us in. Of course it does. Because our biggest battle is against women. Which only pushes both of us to succeed. My plate tonight was busy throwing up the dinner I bought her in the bathroom, lying to me about it, sucking my dick, and she's asleep in my bed right now.

And she wants to be extreme because I am extreme. Because we both obsess. Everything everyone defines as alpha is just the top of men. That's alpha. Obsessing to the top.

Obsess your way to the top or die trying. Cause I've nearly died several times from my hobby. And the status of that gets me top pussy. But I've watched my brothers die trying to get to the top. That's the game.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is why masculinity is ultimately violence. We are violent men. We will kill each other to fuck more women. It's our genetic imperative. To be alpha men.

[–]Vaselinee0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Haha this is getting funny

[–]Summertime_Dimes-3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

An alpha is, first and foremost, a leader. This is not to say that an alpha must be righteous, and he may in fact be evil as fuck.

On a related note, even alphas can and should follow at times. By way of example, my boss one of the biggest, baddest, most dominant trial attorneys that I have ever known. He is the living embodiment of alpha male. He does not second guess himself, he does not back down, he does not ever give an inch, and he does not give a fuck if people like him or not - though I get a sense he prefers to be liked when feasible. I certainly like him. But more importantly, I respect him immensely. He has 8 children by several ex-wives, and has adopted a few more. He has raised all of his kids to be strong, confident, dominant human beings like their father.

I have several employees that answer to me, male and female. I lead them, train them, direct them, reward them, and discipline them when necessary. They look to me for leadership. I, in turn, look to my boss for decision making on issues above my pay grade. In my relationship with my subordinates, I am the consummate alpha. In my relationship with my boss, he is.

Just as I admire leadership qualities in my subordinates, my boss admires leadership qualities in his. I have much more respect for those working under me who demonstrate alpha qualities, and know that they will one day be people I can depend on to get shit done without direct oversight.

The point is, you can be an alpha and not be the end all be all boss in a given situation. You can be strong and confident in your abilities and still be deferential to those who lead you without compromising your alpha-ness. Men learn how to be great men from other great men.

[–]Sigmund-Droid -4 points-4 points [recovered] | Copy

"Alpha" is the first letter of the Greek alphabet.

If i ever see another discussion here about "what is alpha" i m gonna unsubscribe! that's a threat!

Alpha is a scientific term with a specific definition, but we want to believe that humans are not pure animals and our society is a lot more complicated than, say, horses.

"Alpha" is a metaphor that everyone can use as they wish, as long as they keep the analogies (alpha==good, beta==bad).

Anyone who can prove that "alpha" is more than a word, i dare you to respond.

[–]Modredpillschool[S,M] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Alpha is a word that we use to mean something here.

Alpha != good. Beta != Bad.

Unsubscribe.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Aaaaagh! What CRAP! TRP is about the TRUE nature of the female, her hypergamy and dual mating strategy. A woman needs two things from a man; genetic benefits - the alpha, and direct benefits - the beta. In the course of her life, she first seeks the genetic benefits: younger girls are much less impressed by money and resources and much more enamored by how 'cute' he is. Later in life, she begins to understand how important provisioning is, usually when she gets pregnant, or by her late twenties.

Now since women have nothing to offer men but children, how can she obtain these two benefits? For genetic benefits, all she must do is what any man already wants: she needs to give him an orgasm. (This is why women love to please the alpha - it's part of her programming.) This act of getting him off satisfies her imperative in and of itself. His climax IS her reward. There is no trade, no transaction, no reciprocation.

But getting direct benefits is a bit more problematic. Here she TRADES sex for resources. Sex with the non-alpha is a COST, potentially tying up her valuable, scarce womb with sub-optimal DNA, and to compensate for this cost, she demands resources.

Hence, alpha and beta merely describe the categories of men that women need to fulfill their genetic programming. A very few men are high in both. A little more can be described as alpha, with around half the male population being able to provision, the betas. The rest, meh, completely invisible to women - the omegas.

Being beta is NOT bad. ALpha and beta are NOT mutually exclusive, they are NOT opposite ends of one spectrum, they are two distinct, separate qualities that are BOTH required for the species. Yes, beta traits/behaviors will get a man sex, just not validational, hot sex. For that you have to add in some alpha. And, yes, the results of the alpha traits/behaviors - hot, validational sex - are usually most desired by most men.

Bottom line, I guess, is that TRP is amoral - it's value free. When you say that Alpha=good and beta=bad, then you're making a value judgement, and that's not TRP, it's your own preference.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Solid. Not sure why anyone would downvote this.

[–]PookIsLovePookIsLife-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think Pook put it best in his description of the Don Juan.

An alpha is not the hypermasculine man controlled by his masculinity, nor is it the beta man who shuns his masculinity.

The alpha is he who controls his masculinity.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The alpha is he who controls his masculinity.

See, there's that idealistic version of alpha again.

We're not discussing life philosophy here, we're discussing the definition of alpha.



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