Why do certain groups ignore hard science and research on hormone effects?

purpleppp · 2017-09-13T20:16:09+00:00

Some people ignore science when it doesn't suit their ideological beliefs. This happens across the political spectrum. Isn't it obvious?

Electra_Cute · 2017-09-13T20:19:47+00:00

People are less likely to believe information or even outright ignore it if it does not fit their world view.

sublimemongrel · 2017-09-13T22:02:59+00:00

Clearly it's not purely cultural/environmental. I agree with Electracute that people use science when it confirms their own beliefs/promotes whatever agenda they may have and dismiss or discredit science that goes against said beliefs/agenda.

Rensanian · 2017-09-14T00:26:32+00:00

infants 1 day old females were more likely to focus on the human face

That study had extremely significant flaws. The researchers (including the "human face example") knew the sex of the infants beforehand. They were biased towards the hypothesis and conclusion. It was not able to be replicated, either.

seek technical work... ...women born with high testosterone disorder had similar results to the males

CAH? The issues regarding it are much more complex than just "high testosterone". Many different factors tend to impact how those girls grow up, which could all easily result in "male-typical" traits.

9 month old infants overwhelmingly chose toys in line with their traditional gender roles

That could easily be the result of gendered socialization.

empathy

Many things seem to influence empathy besides testosterone. For example, some studies have demonstrated that sex differences in empathy disappear when men and women do not know they are being studied.

dicklord_airplane · 2017-09-13T23:38:34+00:00

if you believe that people's behavior, values, and desires are 100% due to what they are taught as opposed to any innate/biological instinct, then it would appear that all people can be molded and engineered into anything you desire them to be.

it seems like feminists really want to believe that everything men feel and do that they don't like is due to "socialization" because they want to re-engineer men into something that benefits them personally. my favorite example is this:

men are attracted to fit young women only because society and porn tells them to be

if you believe this, then you can have hope that men may one day be attracted to all types of women equally... if only we could get to men at a young age and engineer them to be goodthinkers! if you believe this, you can count yourself as a victim of "society", which tells men that they aren't allowed to want unattractive women. you can absolve yourself of all responsibility to be attractive to men because it's not your fault that men treat you this way - it's society's fault. but don't worry, we have a plan to change men. I can see how this ideology could be very seductive to a lot of people.

of course that belief is not true. The fit, young women we see everywhere in the media and porn is the average of what men are instinctually attracted to. the "male gaze" appears everywhere in media because that's what grabs men's attention in a profound, visceral way. men are half the population, like it or not, so things that most men like are going to be common in human societies.

the irony is that sociopolitical beliefs and values themselves are due to socialization. people's core beliefs and values almost always align with their family's and their school's core beliefs and values. feminists who believe that men's uglier, less civilized innate traits are totally due to socialization only believe that because they were taught to believe it.

theambivalentrooster · 2017-09-13T22:43:01+00:00

I'd be interested to see the testosterone levels in traditionally male dominated fields and not just physical ones.

Women police and firefighters, lawyers, doctors, and executives. It would be interesting to see if their test levels were higher than the average woman.

SnotNoodle · 2017-09-13T22:51:37+00:00

...So well done that their general interests and ability for empathy were able to be predicted by testosterone levels alone.

Absolutely, and truth is: not only feminists dismiss this, people on this subreddit do too. In fact, people in general do this, I reckon that it is cognitive dissonance that takes over; the belief that you hold, that no matter what - others must be wrong. That you can't be wrong. You therefore feel the need to mentally adjust the information given, either by dismissing the importance of it, or by judging it as invalid. Plenty of studies have been conducted on this and it shows the same results.

NewAcctEveryDamnDay · 2017-09-13T21:39:52+00:00

To push an agenda.

These same cats'll tell you that a man is a woman because they said "feel" they are in their heads, despite not having the requisite physiology to substantiate such a claim.

TheBookOfSeil · 2017-09-14T14:55:49+00:00

Why do you think that is?

Probably because objective facts are corrosive to personal narratives.

pinkgoldrose · 2017-09-13T21:01:15+00:00

Testosterone can't explain it all. All women have lower testosterone levels than all men, yet some women are better at math than some men, and there's at least one woman who's better than one man at being a ruthless CEO.

snailypop · 2017-09-13T20:28:05+00:00

Can you give us a summary of the findings of the studies?

CopperFox3c · 2017-09-13T20:22:13+00:00

Science vs. Scientism.

The Left is just as guilty of taking on anti-scientific positions as the Right does, when it supports their beliefs.

Most people are driven more by their beliefs than they care to admit. Science in the end is like a map of the world, not the world itself. Human interpretation is still required of the facts.

IckyStickyPoo · 2017-09-13T23:56:01+00:00

I think it's because the science isn't hard and the effects of testosterone are iffy. There are definite differences in general between men and women - but many of the things once thought to be scientifically true of men and women didn't end up being true.

Men can have low T and a high sex drive. Women can have normal T for a woman and have a higher sex drive than a man who has a higher level of T than her. Some women are more aggressive than some men.

What looks like 'science' can be studies conducted in a vacuum and by biased individuals.

And we cannot look at how many women are in STEM right now as the basis of any serious scientific view of how women's brains work.

If all girls were in single-sex schooling, then over generations we'd see a marked increase of girls going into STEM.

Girls can't be what they can't see. And what they can't see right now is many female role models in male-dominated STEM fields.

BiggerDthanYou · 2017-09-13T20:19:11+00:00

We often see Feminist and other groups proceed to claim that human gender roles are purely created by cultures despite the overwhelming lack of evidence to the contrary. Why do you think that is?

Can you show that they still do that on a large scale? That's usually something that was more common like thirty years ago, but after seeing cases like David Reimer they learned from their mistakes.

Modern feminists are all about transgender people being born with a brain that's closer to the opposite sex. How would that fit together with the idea that it is entirely learned? Especially because they also say that you can't just turn transgender into being cisgender by pushing them into that gender role. If it was all just nurture we would be able to nurture it into something else

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Butt-Factory · 2017-09-13T23:23:20+00:00

It's not caring the same as ignoring? There's tons of research people know little about and don't care to know.

jkonrad · 2017-09-14T01:43:24+00:00

I suspect it's not a lot of people that hold that view, they're just loud and now thanks to the internet are more visible.

[deleted] · 2017-09-14T13:39:11+00:00

Most groups ignore science that proves them wrong. But terpers and conservatives are especially guilty of this. That's why they sound so ridiculous.

Title	Why do certain groups ignore hard science and research on hormone effects?
Author	Gawernator
Upvotes	24
Comments	191
Date	September 13, 2017 8:07 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6zx6fb/why_do_certain_groups_ignore_hard_science_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-certain-groups-ignore-hard-science-and.266081 https://theredarchive.com/post/266081

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