Red Pillers: How come women can't love men unconditionally but men can love women conditionally?

Gold_Mouth · 2015-01-15T02:12:47+00:00

I don't think men can love unconditionally. That's one of the things about TRP that I don't agree with.

LeGrandDiableBlanc · 2015-01-15T04:46:28+00:00

The idea is that men project their innate insecurities onto an ideal version of their women, and fall in love with that ideal. The innate insecurity in men is fear of losing the competitions of life (for food and reproduction). They innately understand that their worth to society (and especially women) is entirely conditional. It is dependent upon them performing adequately or better in various ways.

In turn, men idealize a state of being that isn’t dependent upon their performance. A fantasy where, whether or not they are successful, in shape, and interesting, they are still loveable. That idealization is projected onto women, or a women in particular. This is an unrealistic expectation of course. It is obvious that one need maintain certain standards to be loveable. Would you be able to love someone who decides to quit their jobs and education to live as a homeless hitchhiker? Would you be able to love someone if they constantly kill your friends and family? These are silly, extreme examples, but serve to prove that there are at least some conditions to love (I would argue more than is normally admitted).

Women face less of a need to compete for mates. Due to the 9ish month gestation period, they are reproductively more valuable due to an inherently lower supply. Consequently, their job in courting is more about screening the suitors that present themselves. Her insecurities in love are thus choosing wrong. That insecurity gets projected upon men, and thus all men are constantly suspicious. Anything could be the clue to discovering that he isn’t mateworthy after all. Similarly, there is a constant need to scout out new suitors as they present themselves. There’s little (or at least comparatively less) time to waste on inferior options.

This is TRP take anyways. It’s pretty much a condensation of The Rational Male articles Men in Love and Women In Love

TL;DR: It is not that men love unconditionally, it’s that they love idealistically and that said idealization of love is of an unconditional love.

GridReXX · 2015-01-15T01:17:38+00:00

I think anyone can love unconditionally.

I think people who tolerate unconditionally get taken advantage of.

My aunt left her husband. She loved/loves him still, but he's a serial cheater and can't stop. So she left him.

Ajaxeler · 2015-01-14T23:57:49+00:00

As a female I think Unconditional love is impossible. In fact I would see unconditional love as a type of insanity. Surely Sane people have SOME limitations?

The closest is probably a parent but when I see some fucked up shit kids do I'm pretty sure you have to be nuts to still love your child after they raped and tortured a bunch of 5 year olds. or whatever.

cxj · 2015-01-15T05:11:13+00:00

Unconditional love is rare on both sides, trp just loves absolutes as a means of preventing their message from being watered down. I don't take them seriously in that regard.

exit_sandman · 2015-01-15T08:49:48+00:00

I'd say the idea comes from the phenomenon of women leaving their man who didn't do anything objectively wrong, but for his failure to "perform" (or because she had better options). In fact, he can be legitimately nice to her, put her on a pedestal, do every favor in the book for her and still be abused and/or dumped in spite of it - or because of it.

On the other hand, it's much more difficult for women to fail at "performing" (how many men leave their wives because they were bad at their jobs, were sub-par housewives and mothers, or only gave them boring duty sex?), in fact, they almost have to make the conscious choice not to perform or to intentionally perform badly to screw up (like severely abusing the children or withholding sex over a long period of time); and a man is also less likely to trade her in for another option (simply by virtue of having fewer options).

Sansa_Culotte_ · 2015-01-15T14:00:35+00:00

What you need to know is that "love" for a Redpill means "like to fuck". So when a Redpill man tells you he is capable of unconditionally loving someone, what he is really telling you is that he has no problem having sex with someone unconditionally.

tl;dr: When they say that "men love unconditionally", that means that men can enjoy having sex with ugly women in addition to visually attractive women.

rumo_itaki · 2015-01-15T05:32:56+00:00

The way I see it is this.

Women are attracted to looks, character, and status. Two of these are volatile.

Men are attracted to looks, looks and looks. Zero of these are volatile.

It's not that men love unconditionally, it's just that the man love conditions are hell of a more stable.

alexdelargeorange · 2015-01-15T09:03:34+00:00

I think the idea of unconditional love is absurd, except for (in most cases) biological offspring.

Do you love everyone you know well? No. Why not? There must be reasons, right? We all have reasons for why we love someone and not other people even if we don't consciously or intellectually understand them, hence all love is conditional.

SirNemesis · 2015-01-14T23:27:35+00:00

Extremely beta men can love women unconditionally.

I personally would stop loving a woman if she turned into a landwhale.

YaBoiTibzz · 2015-01-15T00:09:53+00:00

Never really understood this one. The term "love" is sufficiently vague enough to make any attempts at telling someone else how "capable" they are of "feeling" it basically pointless. It's all up to the interpretation of the individual.

ABCYZ · 2015-01-14T23:25:21+00:00

Both men and women are capable of loving unconditionally. It is a incredibly bad choice for both men or women though.

VarsitySlutTeamCpt · 2015-01-15T06:56:17+00:00

I think Men are more consistent with love than with women.

DevilishRogue · 2015-01-15T10:45:40+00:00

It's a bad semantic parallel to do with men not being loved as they would like to be loved i.e. for who they are not what they can provide. And although some men do love unconditionally e.g. for women who don't reciprocate and treat them badly, RP espouses that this is a bad thing (and overly beta).

soylentblueissmurfs · 2015-01-15T14:34:54+00:00

[deleted]

What is this?

[deleted] · 2015-01-15T16:10:56+00:00

All love is conditional.

winndixie · 2015-01-16T07:12:41+00:00

That's written in the sidebar in /r/theredpill, whether or not you agree with it, the answer you ask is there.

timewaitsforsome · 2015-01-18T07:07:49+00:00

because fuck you

DoxasticPoo · 2015-01-15T01:47:04+00:00

Let's start where most RP theory starts, social evolution. Throughout the history of mankind women have been the selective sex and men the selected sex. Meaning, women choose men for reproduction and not the other way around.

This was beneficial for progress because women always chose the highest value man. And if one man was the highest value one year, he would be chosen. If another was highest another year, he would be chosen. So women putting conditions on their love/bonding/sex was advantageous for mankind because it ensured the offspring always had the best genes. Now obviously this wasn't ALWAYS the case, it had to evolve into being the case. And what happened was women with unconditional love wouldn't live as long or be as successful.

Let's do a thought experiment. We'll have two women, A and B. A has unconditional love and will only sleep with one man. B has conditional love and only sleeps with a man who meets these conditions. If the man in woman A's life ever fails at "manly" things (hunting, war, building shelter, etc...), her life could end up in danger. Whereas, women B's life is only in danger if ALL the men fail. Unconditional love threatened a woman life if her one man didn't come through. Whereas conditional made it so all men had to fail. And not just men in one tribe, but all men. Because even if a war broke out and women B's tribe lost, her "conditions" would allow her to join the new tribe with ease. Whereas woman A would be starving and crying over her dead man.

So it was beneficial for women to develop conditional love.

HOWEVER, the opposite was true for men. If men developed conditional love, they would be selected for mating LESS. The men with no conditions, who would sacrifice themselves, they would get more pussy.

Another thought experiment. Let's say two men from the same tribe go off to war, A and B. Man A has unconditional love and is willing to do anything. Man B does not. Most likely, as the two men head out to battle, Man B is will think, "WHY the hell am I doing this?!? I can survive on my own... I can hunt just fine... fuck this. I'M OUT!" And man B doesn't reproduce. However, man A (assuming he's successful in battle) will go back and not only bang his girl, but whatever girls are left.

It wasn't beneficial for men to have conditional love because they are NOT the selective sex, they are selected. And if I want to be selected for something, I should not try to negotiate my own conditions, I will be less likely to be selected unless I'm remarkably better than the other candidates. This is also why we say "You cannot negotiate desire." Because men are not the selective sex.

This is also where men's "sacrificial" love and women's "utilitarian" love come from. Because the skillful man willing to sacrifice the most was more likely to reproduce. Whereas the woman who received more useful things were more likely to survive.

But, it practical applications I don't think men are 100% unconditional. You can easily say that in order to fall in love, certain conditions must be met. I won't just fall in love with any ole girl.

However, men are just FAR LESS conditional because we are the selected sex and we have a sense of sacrifice. So even if we have conditions, our sense of sacrifice will often come in and say, "Just sacrifice those conditions, for her."

So in practical terms men have much fewer and softer conditions. I think it's just generalized into "unconditional vs conditional" because it's useful. HOW unconditional vs conditional is up for debate. The quantifier is left off so people often infer "100%". But I don't think it's 100%. Men are just much more unconditional and women much more conditional is practical terms.

natufian · 2015-01-15T00:58:38+00:00

Of the 17 comments here so far, I don't see what I think is the simplest and most fundamental explanation. Biology. To get off the subject of love, for just a moment, you'll find that the hierarchy of survival always plays out Male -> Female -> Progeny. From Praying mantis and spiders, to angler fish and octopi the imperative is that the male lives long enough to fertilize, the female lives long enough to lay eggs/conceive, the progeny must live to sexual maturity. Usually after doing their duty being consumed by the next member of the hierarchy.

Being social creatures, this imperative remains, but it's expanded. Instead of being eaten by the women we love, who are in turn snacked on by the kids, we devote a part of ourselves to them that would typically make no sense.

[deleted] · 2015-01-14T23:37:37+00:00

Because that's how god made them

AFormidableContender · 2015-01-15T01:33:41+00:00

Biological directives and natural engendered conditioning.

Neeeeext?

winndixie · 2015-01-15T10:15:43+00:00

Seems like everyone answers with only anecdotes. That's like arguing all apples are green cause I see them or red cause I've only seen them.

TalkToHusband · 2015-01-15T02:13:39+00:00

because biology. If a man dies to save the mother of his children, then his offspring live on, and are taken care of. If a woman dies saving her man, the children are in far more jeopardy.

Title	Red Pillers: How come women can't love men unconditionally but men can love women conditionally?
Author	Lospitarrrre
Upvotes	6
Comments	129
Date	January 14, 2015 11:10 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2sgdek/red_pillers_how_come_women_cant_love_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/red-pillers-how-come-women-cant-love-men.283793 https://theredarchive.com/post/283793

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