Indifference and Control: Why You Don't Wanna Be Chad

Thotwrecker · 2018-04-20T22:01:44+00:00

I mean if you understand Chad to be a EFFORTLESS NATURAL, then it's very clear that by virtue of being here you won't be Chad. Chad is essentially a Gatsby-like construct, a thing imagined up by teenagers about how they want to be.

Chad's are people who float to the top naturally, by way of superior genetics, superior upbringing, luck, whatever it is.

But that's not ever really going to be any of us, because if it was, we wouldn't have found ourselves on here.

The blessing/curse of being a non-natural who had to learn all this shit is consciousness - we are conscious of how attraction works and why certain things we do push and pull women.

This is a blessing because like you mentioned, we understand control game and we understand button pushing on a deeper level that Chad. I know exactly how to get a type of girl I've gotten before, as I was conscious and aware of what I did to get her and keep her. I know how to keep a girl way above my SMV until I've tired of her.

The downside of course, is also that we understand and use control game. It makes bad outcomes feel like it was directly our fault, as though we made the wrong moves despite having the information to know better. It means nothing really feels magic, because we know her arousal is really just a reflection of the fact that we have SMV + game.

I've gone out and done PU for years and still do; it's a lot of fun, it's hard as fuck even to this day sometimes, and it's the best way to keep improving your game and stay motivated to increase your SMV (because you get direct feedback - if you cut some weight you immediately see better outcomes and feel encouraged).

Being conscious of all of this is ultimately a good thing.

The problem is if you are still BP. Then it hurts, because you don't get anything effortlessly. You realize (because again you are conscious of everything that goes into high SMV + good game) that you pay a high price in work and toil and improvement to get women - and she only likes you because of what you've made out of yourself, not this beta concept of "who you are". Chad just showed up, you didn't just show up. Chad makes it look easy, you consciously make it look easy but deep down you know what you paid. I know - I paid a high price for this shit.

This is why the goal of TRP in my mind is never to become a Chad. It's to become sexually successful (and ideally as part of an overall mission in life to become a more powerful, capable man with a clearer vision of what he wants, and the faculties to get what he wants). This is something SOME Chads also "get" but others (most others) don't.

The bottom line is this: beta males often envy hot girls and Chads in the same way. They see this life through a bubble - the fratboy and the sorority girl, the thots and the athletes, the parties, the fun, etc. They don't realize that the Chads are basically just hot girls - they popped out the right way in societies eyes and they enjoy the easy life - they don't have to do anything but show up. Just like a hot girl - she's always got an abundance of options, invites to parties, people to help her out, etc. Chads are the same.

Now do you really want that for yourself?

Honestly, you may despite knowing that the right answer is no. But that to me is the crux of TRP - TRP is about giving up on the BP life that could have been. That's also what being a "millennial" means TO ME. It means giving up on everything you were supposed to just get the way your daddy did - you give up on the stable career path just for having a degree, you give up on the wife and picket fence, you give up on being the Chad dating the cheerleaders, you give up on this desire to just get things for free.

When you give up on all of that, you can understand women and life for what it is. Everything in life has a price, nothing is free, and freebies are the most dangerous things in life because they made you stupid and lazy.

I'm 27, I go out with my Chad friends now, I already can pull more bitches - but that doesn't really mean anything to me because in my early 20s I slowly and painfully gave up on feeling the need to compare and compete with them.

It's a slow process. Anyone who says TRP is a quick fix is full of shit. I think it honestly takes at least 5 years, maybe 10 to fully unfuck your mind and really become "alpha" and reach a good balance of natural confidence + deep knowledge of yourself and of people, including women. For example, it took me probably until 25 (and I started dating at 15 or so) to fully get over wanting to impress my friends by showing off the hotness of the girls I could get.

This is why if you are not a natural, you need to just give up on being a Chad and push for a more conscious, aware form of TRP where your goal is not full unconscious effortlessness, but rather developing the skills needed to handle and come out on top in any situation.

Don't build unconsciousness and Chaddish relaxed laziness. Don't build effortlessness - build the skill of harnessing effort and drive to accomplish shit.

It's like would you rather be born with a 6 pack and big biceps, or would you rather be born skinnyfat and instead work hard over 3 years to painstakingly grow a 6 pack and big biceps. The first one would sure feel nice, but the second one will leave you with something far more important and meaningful to your overall life than being ripped.

Black_m0ngoose · 2018-04-20T22:59:25+00:00

To live is to struggle.

Comfort is the antithesis of growth.

Only through growth, are you able to adapt.

Only through stress, do you gain strength to overcome.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Men swing between fragility and rigidity.

Too rigid, and the man will break under the load.

Too fragile, and the man will not have the strength to carry the load.

Be antifragile. Seek to rectify your weaknesses. Do not become complacent. Complacency breeds weakness.

Dogma versus philosophy. It's not enough to be given the tools to succeed- competence in their application is necessary. Be less like a peacock and more like an iceberg. Give yourself depth.

So next time you see a Chad, recognize him for what he is- a weakling.

Because he has never struggled- so when he finally comes face-to-face with adversity, he will crumble. He'll "hit the wall."

But there is no wall that cannot be overcome by a redpilled man. There is only a choice-

"Will I push forward?"

A redpilled man sees life for what it is- one giant shit-test. You either pass, or you fail.

You fail when you quit.

You succeed by pushing forward.

The choice is yours and yours alone. No one can make you do anything you don't want to do.

Men who enjoy nothing but success, fall apart when confronted with failure.

Only a weak man can truly appreciate strength.

WholesomeAwesome · 2018-04-20T19:51:29+00:00

TLDR:

Relationship game is control game. Because men are naturally protective of women, and women are not naturally protective of men, relationships are long-term viable to precisely degree that the man is in charge.

In initial contact with a woman, controlling behaviours appear weak, thirsty, needy, and creepy as fuck, and indifference behaviours appear relaxed, confident, and powerful. But as emotional investment visibly increases on both sides, indifference gradually begins to appear avoidant, unassertive, unconfident, passive-aggressive, and, you guessed it, creepy as fuck.

A certain point, you simply have to make your expectations clear to a woman, or she will believe you are afraid to. At a certain point, you have to be possessive, or she will believe you are afraid to. At a certain point, you have to punish rather than ignore bad behaviour, or she will believe you are afraid to.

TunedtoPerfection · 2018-04-20T21:13:42+00:00

Indifference is a novelty, a novelty that many men in this day and age do not have. But as with all novelties it wears off, and when a woman grows tired of a novelty they assume there is some huge backstory to it.

It's not the fact that you are just an indifferent asshole, no to her it's she figured out that you were just actually a pussy that tricked her. See I'm an indifferent asshole, but being indifferent to everything makes you look like you can't act on anything. I literally have to force myself to care or else I come across as paralyzed by social pressure. My indifference to where to eat, or what to do eventually comes across as being afraid to decide and take control. My indifference that the 500th dude hit on her at the bar makes me look like I'm afraid to stop it. When that lightswitch flips ALL other past events are seen in that light, you weren't indifferent, you were ALWAYS a pussy she just couldn't see it before because you tricked her.

There comes a time with women when naturally you can't be completely indifferent with them anymore. The mere fact that you have seen a woman and continue to spend time with her for 5 months SHOWS you have more then indifference to her. So when you continue on with indifference as your only game it comes off as being too weak to act.

The general populace doesn't understand sunk cost, especially when it comes to dating, the concept doesn't even exist. So to women time equals an investment. Indifference is awesome in the beginning because it's something new and exciting. All their go to tricks don't seem to work with you and that gets them excited.

But after a while they know you have some sort of investment in them or you wouldn't be ringing them up for the 50th time. So your indifference becomes, in their mind, weakness. You stop being the cool indifference guy and become the man afraid of action.

oneredguy · 2018-04-21T01:56:14+00:00

I'd say that as you transition a girl from plate to girlfriend, or from dating to wife in normie speak, you enter a critical phase. The boundary setting phase. Over a year or three subtle and not so subtle negotiations take place. The alpha male will negotiate his commitment to not bail and to not sleep with other women in return for the woman taking on her role as household manager and full time support of her man. Meaning cooking meals at home from scratch, cleaning the man's (and her own) residence, taking care of his clothing, and playing an amazing support role for the life he is offering to share with her.

The beta male, the thirsty male, doesn't even realize that he is negotiating his commitment and will rather press for her commitment. Thereby demonstrating in the real discussion that he values his commitment at nothing and hers as higher value than his own. This sets the relationship into a death spiral where the man will later get divorced and end up here. Without even realizing that this was all set in motion the moment he gave his commitment away.

Many women are so used to dealing with beta males that they suffer extreme cognitive dissonance when they realize that your commitment, each and every step of it, comes at a price.

Looking forward to any future essays you come up with about moving from player to patriarch.

OilyB · 2018-04-21T08:18:10+00:00

Good post and analysis of indifference vs control.

But I dare to say that it's only theoretical and doesn't cover the whole reality of day to day Chaddism. I agree that there are traits that hugely increase the odds that many a lass will swoon over you: build, looks, bone structure, indifference, control, money, status, talent, dick size, dress style, spontaneity etc.

I'd like to add that what attracts a woman to a man is endlessly mysterious and that Chad is probably as often as not a relative factor. Meaning, as long as Chad is more confident than the woman in question, more quick witted than the woman in question, funnier than she's ever experienced, etc, he stands a good chance of banging her.

The factor you're keeping constant, that isn't constant irl, is the 'receiver'.

Some women will have experienced funnier guys, more confident guys, more influential guys, richer guys, smoother guys, guys that were more ripped, had bigger dicks etc. An average Chad won't stand a chance with them either.

But, as long as their standards are below what he has to offer/as long as he tops their expectations and experience, he's good to go.

Money example, a woman who's had Bobbie's $10k gifts won't value Kevin's $5k gifts, but she'll be impressed with Chad's €20k gifts. Same goes for dick size, house, car, height, education, influence etc.

So in the end, as long as you seek out women who've had less than you have to offer, you're 'Chad status' to them.

Tldr; The size of the receiver matters just as much as the size of the transmitter.

[deleted] · 2018-04-21T04:17:37+00:00

I am glad someone finally said this. I come from a very interesting camp in that I was an overweight but very social and somewhat intelligent kid and teenager, spent most of that time being the needy nice guy, lost a ton of weight and made some very serious life changes and started having women notice me and then send me choosing signals on their own. I read mystery’s book and the game and took those to heart and learned a tremendous amount about dating dynamics and how women actually respond. then progressed to the point of feeling like I needed to settle down and have a family and actively wanting to assume the beta bucks role, which absolutely blew my mind when i tried to keep a decent quality girl around and i failed over and over again to the point of actually destroying my self confidence. Hooking up with them had become easy. I’ve had women of all skill sets and calibers but I could not for the life of me not figure this out, which actually led me to the red pill. I’ve since shed that lonely old man myth and mindset and went back to my old ways of living life and I’ve never been better. But it really did open my eyes to how much different things can be in an LTR setting, and how even a natural chad would fail there. Indifference was never my problem, it was always this control frame

max_peenor · 2018-04-20T21:27:00+00:00

Women have always just given him what he wanted before

And this would be where I completely shit the bed. When I got to Legal Cohabiting Female, while obviously wasn't completely inaccessible, she was substantially frigid compared to pretty much every other woman I experienced. I took it as a sign of virtue, when clearly it was a sign of waning interest.

This would probably be why I didn't find out about the other guy she was fucking until AFTER we were married. Women instinctually know how to manage these situations.

Lambdal7 · 2018-04-20T22:11:08+00:00

Not really, some people are simply extroverted, more confident, more witty, creative, risk takers, ambitious by genetics. Personality is already defined at birth and has nothing to do with your life.

Throughout life, it changes through your experiences, but you always come out of the vagina with a preprogrammed personality with better attributes here and worse attributes there.

Abundance alone isn't what makes Chad attractive. Chad always has to get to abundance, which is simply not possible for 90% of men. He needs some game for that, be it natural or learned, coupled with good looks.

_paperTiger · 2018-04-21T03:27:58+00:00

Correlation =/= causation

Chad doesn't get girls because he's indifferent, he's indifferent because he gets a lot of girls.

Acting indifferent won't change anything for you.

Rian_Stone · 2018-04-20T22:24:02+00:00

I've met Chad. He has a hard time dealing with failure, many of the older guys that make their way here are 'fallen alphas'.

he's a nice heuristic, I would stop short at calling him a role model. He IS competition for you, even though he's not playing the game

Reaper1967 · 2018-04-20T22:03:11+00:00

You all are coming from the viewpoint of wanting a relationship, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If that’s your goal, your points are valid. For those of us out here just doing our thing and getting laid when we want, indifference and IDGAF works, and very well. Girl gets pissed I don’t commit? Fuck it, on to the next one. Girl does something I don’t like? Fuck it, on to the next one. I got a son and my own life pursuits to worry about, I don’t want nor need a woman distracting me or bringing me down, I just like pounding pussy here and there.

I’ve played both sides of the field, spent most of my young adult life married and being the textbook beta schlub. Now I have a few girls that consistently contact me when they want laid. There is of course many levels between the two examples, but I’m not personally interested in trying to keep one (or several) girls satiated in anything other than sex.

Constatine7 · 2018-04-21T00:50:39+00:00

My name is literally Chad. Always find it funny people use that name around here as a symbol. Anyhow I would argue that a natural masculine Chad would always have the advantage over anyone who is well practiced. That's simply because women are attracted to masculinity. Shit tests, male behavior, physical appearances, and even your smell are all ways women gauge a man's masculinity. Game, money, and power are incredibly important things that will win you many women but if you lack masculine traits a woman will never respect you (and hence not be attracted to you). It is necessary to be androgenic (masculine from a physiological point of view) to be successful with women. People are naturally very good at at judging someone's androgen levels using various cues. It cannot be faked. If you've ever known anyone who's done steroids you would know that their entire presence changes and it's not just the muscles or the way they act.

pplay_ · 2018-04-21T18:46:20+00:00

In fact, Chad doesn't even know he should be in control. Why would he know that? Women have always just given him what he wanted before.

I am inclined to agree here, at least to the extent that this appears to be true. In other words, that there is something concrete being given by women that can be legitimately possessed by a Chad.

On the other hand we have to consider what /u/Thotwrecker said which can run contrary to this concept:

They don't realize that the Chads are basically just hot girls - they popped out the right way in societies eyes and they enjoy the easy life - they don't have to do anything but show up.

What I’m seein here is a disagreement about whether a Chad can have Self-Ownership, which seems to be the impetus of control. I like Self-Ownership because it is a good way for the individual to distinguish themselves from their environment.

It is one thing for women to willingly give control, in the sense of Self-Ownership, to a man. For her to do this she is exrpressing that her life is not her own and therefore she recognizes herself to be an extension of the life of the man to whom she is subordinates.

However, if it is true that a Chad isn’t necessarily actively in a state of Self-Ownership, then to what does a had belong?

I believe what Thotwrecker suggests is true, that a Chad without Self-Ownership belongs to his environment. Thus, he is in a more natural state as opposed to an intellectual one. This sheds light on some, but likely not all, of the causes /u/Whisper identifies for why a Chad’s relationship deteriorates.

If he cannot be in a state of active Self-Ownership then he will remain in a state of passive subordination to his environment i.e., he is Blue Pill. So no matter how attractive he is, his attraction is a function of the environment itself and not of the individual. When a female offers her life or subordination to a male who lacks Self-Ownership, very little change actually occurs. They are both remain in a state of potential for self actualizing, as their relationship more or less is a function of their environment. To become something more than this one must have Self-Ownership and apply intellect to their life as opposed to letting nature run its course. Intellect is what allows one to have control, because it is what allows one to have in general.

This, however, is not to say that all Alphas are Chads, which should be obvious. I do believe a Chad by definition however does lack Self-Ownership, and therefore becoming Chad is antithetical to TRP.

[deleted] · 2018-04-20T23:45:57+00:00

Good explanation of how there really IS an element of truth in all those sad stories that begin I used to be Alpha but after I got married I gained a few pounds/started to lose time and interest in my hobbies and friends/and she stopped enjoying sex with me

Looking forward to next part of this series

RedwallAllratuRatbar · 2018-04-20T22:43:36+00:00

Wow, finally an article that shows the truth. Not only that Chad is mostly looks based and previous good experience based, but that he is basically colossus standing on clay legs. It also perfectly describes my brother, he is beta to the core, always delving into next RELATIONSHIP asap, but the abundance made it work. It's like he has no libido except at the sex time

unclecrumble · 2018-04-21T02:13:14+00:00

This is me. I’m great the one night stands and fwb but as soon as I get in a relationship I don’t feel normal. I honestly think it goes against my nature to be in a relationship

bouncypoo · 2018-04-21T07:23:32+00:00

spinning plates is ideal. This whole thread is about Ltr game which in itself shows a lack of indifference. If you end up married or find yourself in divorce court you lacked indifference along the way.

ItsMoiraiPS4 · 2018-04-21T14:47:14+00:00

"Because cats always seem easy to get along with when you're holding a can of tuna. " Great Analogy

Chaddeus_Rex · 2018-04-21T16:07:40+00:00

Why would anyone want an LTR though?>

Fulp_Piction · 2018-04-21T19:39:43+00:00

You've been here a lot longer than me, but 'control' is exactly what we all tried to do in our beta relationships. If a girl isn't up to your expectations - NEXT. Thats why you have two in the kitty, thats why we talk about abundance mentality. Possessing your girl was weak.

The only thing making me doubt myself here is your handle, so tell me if I'm missing something - lead by example, have boundaries and be the kind of person she's scared to lose if she breaks them, yeah, but tell me where you draw the line between how much effort you put into controlling a current girl compared to finding a new girl? That shouldn't be too much effort put into controlling if you've got options, and you shouldn't be in an LTR without options, so..?

RoiMartel · 2018-04-22T00:34:51+00:00

In fact, Chad doesn't even know he should be in control. Why would he know that? Women have always just given him what he wanted before.

Actually that would explain a lot why hollywood's male stars are such prima-donna weenies who come out on the social justice bandwagon "save the planet", "MeToo", etc; Why go through the effort of having to actually think and explore an ideological or intellectual concept when your fame and women have just been handed to you. (And why many of their marriages are disasters)

Iwannachokekatie · 2018-04-20T20:52:19+00:00

Why do you have to keep rubbing the Katie thing in...

Dmva100 · 2018-04-20T20:02:49+00:00

Alpha and Chad often get mixed in a grey area. The contextual alpha (the only real way to measure 'Alpha') can be 'Chad' but only in certain aspects, whereas Chad is always and ideal archetype, contextual or not. If anything he is equal to or greater than the contextual Alpha i.e. the rockstar who gets the young pussy wet, but is a bitch in the eyes of his wife who would still fuck Chad inside or outside the concert venue.

In reality Chad just represents the alpha as seen through the eyes of a beta and the women who have been burned by him.

Also, the irony of Chad Thundercock is that despite him being the evil arch type alpha that steals your girlfriend and fucks your sister, but doesn't call her back the next days that this forum often uses him as, many of the members of this form would probably qualify as being a Chad Thundercock themselves.

At worst, Chad is just the alpha who uses his powers in a manor deemed unacceptable by those who have either fallen victim to his charm or aspire to be him.

ivanttobealone · Sat Apr 21 3:26:27 2018 UTC

man and you guys claim women are the hamsterers

ozenmacher · 2018-04-20T23:51:57+00:00

Funny story...when I was a pathetic Bluepilled beta schlub, the first "girlfriend" I ever got was simply due to complete indifference. Partly because I had zero game, partly because I was completely unaware, and partly because I legit thought she was just another female friend. I laugh when I look back because she was giving IOIs up the whazoo, constantly trying to get close to me (I was such a loser then I would just move away...or if we were together in the evening, I would just leave), and always making contact with me (I never initiated because I honestly was not that interested in her). This went on for like 3 months until we finally got drunk one night and...well you know.

Indifference does indeed work, even if it because of the wrong reasons. If you can add in game, high SMV, and amused mastery/confidence, it really honestly becomes easy. For me, it just comes down to vetting after that.

[deleted] · 2018-04-21T00:42:22+00:00

Take my god damned upvote

[deleted] · 2018-04-21T05:46:43+00:00

This reminds me of another post a while back on how it is better to be a "learned" alpha than a natural one.

You noted this well in your post that even though things may seem effortless to Chad when things go wrong (which they will) Chad will be helpless to his circumstances because he has no real red pilled knowledge.

[deleted] · 2018-04-21T16:30:12+00:00

This post exactly describes me prior to, then with my oneitis.

Great article.

Alchemist_XP · 2018-04-21T17:03:27+00:00

Fuck ya man this post was great! I’ve been reading on here a lot these past months and this post really felt it gave some new insight I hadn’t really grasped before! Stoked on this! Very appreciative to be a part of this school!

ScotsDoItBetter · 2018-04-21T17:10:17+00:00

This is very well thought out

luciagarcia8818 · 2018-04-21T18:56:52+00:00

I think the point of this article is contrary to the Red Pill ideology. Acting indifferent is denying your desires, at least in appearance. That is unmanly because being honest with yourself and others in one of the male ideals.

"Pure indifference game is increasingly ineffective in relationships" So you are saying being indifferent to your partner does not work?

Store_Front_Door · 2018-04-22T06:30:43+00:00

I have a friend that seemed like a natural back in the day- tall, buff as fuck, made decent money for his age, fun to be around. He'd message at least 5 new girls every day, so he always had some sort of options. And then he got in to a LTR- proposed after a year, she sucked his wallet dry and then dumped him for a richer dude. It took a year and a half form him to recover.

His journey was very interesting to watch from the side.

OneCovah · 2018-04-22T21:16:23+00:00

Let's compare parents. Say your parents argued all the time, showed no love for each other or for you when you were little, then divorced. After the divorce, none of the adults your parents dated showed any interest in you either.

Now Chad Thundercock's parents loved each other, hugged and kissed each other and hugged and kissed Chad when he was a baby. They held Chad and told him they loved him and supported him and helped him with his homework so he got good grades and his teachers liked him. He was happy at school and all the other kids liked him and he had lots of friends.

That is why Chad seems to be a natural while WE have to learn the hard way. It's not our fault. Some parents love their children and build their self-esteem and others do not.

Chad's self-confidence and "indifference" is based on the self-esteem his parents gave him. When he snuggles up to a girl and she tells him to bug off, he thinks SHE is the problem. He says, what's your problem lady? and walks away shaking his head, what a creep that girl is, the opposite from us, whose self-esteem is destroyed by rejection.

Papiless · 2018-04-22T21:40:38+00:00

This is a great post and something that I understood as well during my journey. Dread game should always be there passively, but trying to run away from her/ignore her/agreeing and amplifying all her shit tests eventually makes you look and feel weak af.

RedVelocitiy · 2018-04-24T13:29:23+00:00

You summed up my problem pretty well.

zephyrprime · 2018-05-02T21:38:09+00:00

and, you guessed it, creepy as fuck

Is there really any point at which indifference becomes creepy? I have never seen this in my life.

awakenedspirit1 · 2018-09-01T19:41:16+00:00

What's so interesting is the flipping of this dynamic. As a quasi natural, I thought the same thing when seeing my friends do "control game." My college roommate would pull a "fake mad" on his girlfriend. We would call this dread. I thought it was immature and manipulative. Earnestly communicate man! Meanwhile his girlfriends would be addicted to him for years...

Appreciate the outline here!

As-You-Were · 2018-04-20T22:42:36+00:00

Wrong. Chad's spawn like the terminator in T3!

urmuffcabagem8 · Fri Apr 20 19:51:31 2018 UTC

Lol dude, you are confused what chad means haha. He's just an archetype of the ideal man

AManIsBusy · 2018-04-21T17:07:49+00:00

I'm going to disagree with you totally. I don't exactly understand this ideal 'Chad' you're referring to, but I'm pretty sure whoever it is, they don't have puny intellects compared to your massive brain that understands female psychology like no other.

You claim that there are no naturals. If you're talking about babies, perhaps. But even at very young ages, personality traits emerge, such as being someone who wants to be in charge, be a leader. That's certainly one way of stating what women want (although there are other ways). So, yes, people can naturally grow into roles that you are currently trying your hardest to change your course into.

There's nothing so enlightening about this stuff that someone who never visited this forum would never have any idea about. Most of it is relevant in things other than sex, so it's common knowledge with common practicality.

Title	Indifference and Control: Why You Don't Wanna Be Chad
Author	Whisper
Upvotes	735
Comments	102
Date	20 April 2018 07:44 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	TheRedPill
Link	https://theredarchive.com/post/49814
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/8dqf35/indifference_and_control_why_you_dont_wanna_be/