"Chad Thundercock", the metaphor for the man who never had to study game to be attractive, is often spoken of as a "natural", but he's not. There are no "naturals". We all emerged from a vagina naked and crying like a bitch, covered in goo and with no game whatsoever.
No, what Chad has isn't an instinctive understanding of game. Nor is it such manliness that he needs none, for again, there is no such thing. What Chad has is confidence, and abundance, and a host of other circumstances that lead to what define Chad: Chad is a man whose life up to this point has made him relaxed and indifferent.
Chad doesn't have clever techniques for making Katie attracted to him. Chad just doesn't give a shit, because if she isn't into him, he'll give Brittany a call. Or Karen. Chad doesn't have nerves of steel. He simply doesn't get approach anxiety, because not only is getting rejected no big deal to him, whether he is attractive isn't a big deal to him either. Women are like firewood to Chad... if you want some, it's lying around everywhere... just pick it up.
Indifference is the key element of most of the game we teach here on TRP, and Chad serves as a good exemplar of it. But indifference game is not the only type of game, this is where Chad gets in trouble, because indifference game is the only kind of game Chad has.
This is why you hear all the constant stories of super-alpha exemplar celebrity men being chewed up and spat out in divorce court. Pure indifference game is increasingly ineffective in relationships, and indifference is the only card Chad has to play.
Chad doesn't actually know what makes Katie tick, and has no idea how to get what he wants out of her. All he has going for him is the ability to easily next her for Brittany or Karen or Samantha or Kimiko. At first, this makes Katie run about desperately trying to figure out how to please him, which looks a lot of like he can get her to do what he wants. But he can't. She is doing it, because of his natural dread game, and the moment he enters a relationship, or otherwise makes a visible emotional investment in her, that power begins to fade.
Chad has no control game.
In fact, Chad doesn't even know he should be in control. Why would he know that? Women have always just given him what he wanted before. The whole concept of dominance, or even leverage, in a relationship is foreign to him, and he probably thinks it sounds slightly creepy. He thinks that women are generally biddable and easy to get along with, because cats always seem easy to get along with when you're holding a can of tuna.
Relationship game is control game. Because men are naturally protective of women, and women are not naturally protective of men, relationships are long-term viable to precisely degree that the man is in charge.
In initial contact with a woman, controlling behaviours appear weak, thirsty, needy, and creepy as fuck, and indifference behaviours appear relaxed, confident, and powerful. But as emotional investment visibly increases on both sides, indifference gradually begins to appear avoidant, unassertive, unconfident, passive-aggressive, and, you guessed it, creepy as fuck.
A certain point, you simply have to make your expectations clear to a woman, or she will believe you are afraid to. At a certain point, you have to be possessive, or she will believe you are afraid to. At a certain point, you have to punish rather than ignore bad behaviour, or she will believe you are afraid to.
At a certain point, the best indifference game in the world will simply cause her to jump ship. This is why knowing that there is a time to invest, expect, and demand is the first step to being able to have an LTR.
We will address how to play the control game in further articles. But, first, you must understand that to every thing, there is a season, and that includes breaking the rules of indifference game to play control game instead.
I mean if you understand Chad to be a EFFORTLESS NATURAL, then it's very clear that by virtue of being here you won't be Chad. Chad is essentially a Gatsby-like construct, a thing imagined up by teenagers about how they want to be.
Chad's are people who float to the top naturally, by way of superior genetics, superior upbringing, luck, whatever it is.
But that's not ever really going to be any of us, because if it was, we wouldn't have found ourselves on here.
The blessing/curse of being a non-natural who had to learn all this shit is consciousness - we are conscious of how attraction works and why certain things we do push and pull women.
This is a blessing because like you mentioned, we understand control game and we understand button pushing on a deeper level that Chad. I know exactly how to get a type of girl I've gotten before, as I was conscious and aware of what I did to get her and keep her. I know how to keep a girl way above my SMV until I've tired of her.
The downside of course, is also that we understand and use control game. It makes bad outcomes feel like it was directly our fault, as though we made the wrong moves despite having the information to know better. It means nothing really feels magic, because we know her arousal is really just a reflection of the fact that we have SMV + game.
I've gone out and done PU for years and still do; it's a lot of fun, it's hard as fuck even to this day sometimes, and it's the best way to keep improving your game and stay motivated to increase your SMV (because you get direct feedback - if you cut some weight you immediately see better outcomes and feel encouraged).
Being conscious of all of this is ultimately a good thing.
The problem is if you are still BP. Then it hurts, because you don't get anything effortlessly. You realize (because again you are conscious of everything that goes into high SMV + good game) that you pay a high price in work and toil and improvement to get women - and she only likes you because of what you've made out of yourself, not this beta concept of "who you are". Chad just showed up, you didn't just show up. Chad makes it look easy, you consciously make it look easy but deep down you know what you paid. I know - I paid a high price for this shit.
This is why the goal of TRP in my mind is never to become a Chad. It's to become sexually successful (and ideally as part of an overall mission in life to become a more powerful, capable man with a clearer vision of what he wants, and the faculties to get what he wants). This is something SOME Chads also "get" but others (most others) don't.
The bottom line is this: beta males often envy hot girls and Chads in the same way. They see this life through a bubble - the fratboy and the sorority girl, the thots and the athletes, the parties, the fun, etc. They don't realize that the Chads are basically just hot girls - they popped out the right way in societies eyes and they enjoy the easy life - they don't have to do anything but show up. Just like a hot girl - she's always got an abundance of options, invites to parties, people to help her out, etc. Chads are the same.
Now do you really want that for yourself?
Honestly, you may despite knowing that the right answer is no. But that to me is the crux of TRP - TRP is about giving up on the BP life that could have been. That's also what being a "millennial" means TO ME. It means giving up on everything you were supposed to just get the way your daddy did - you give up on the stable career path just for having a degree, you give up on the wife and picket fence, you give up on being the Chad dating the cheerleaders, you give up on this desire to just get things for free.
When you give up on all of that, you can understand women and life for what it is. Everything in life has a price, nothing is free, and freebies are the most dangerous things in life because they made you stupid and lazy.
I'm 27, I go out with my Chad friends now, I already can pull more bitches - but that doesn't really mean anything to me because in my early 20s I slowly and painfully gave up on feeling the need to compare and compete with them.
It's a slow process. Anyone who says TRP is a quick fix is full of shit. I think it honestly takes at least 5 years, maybe 10 to fully unfuck your mind and really become "alpha" and reach a good balance of natural confidence + deep knowledge of yourself and of people, including women. For example, it took me probably until 25 (and I started dating at 15 or so) to fully get over wanting to impress my friends by showing off the hotness of the girls I could get.
This is why if you are not a natural, you need to just give up on being a Chad and push for a more conscious, aware form of TRP where your goal is not full unconscious effortlessness, but rather developing the skills needed to handle and come out on top in any situation.
Don't build unconsciousness and Chaddish relaxed laziness. Don't build effortlessness - build the skill of harnessing effort and drive to accomplish shit.
It's like would you rather be born with a 6 pack and big biceps, or would you rather be born skinnyfat and instead work hard over 3 years to painstakingly grow a 6 pack and big biceps. The first one would sure feel nice, but the second one will leave you with something far more important and meaningful to your overall life than being ripped.
Not only that, but it's going to quit on you around 30.
This is "the wall". It's why most girls are washed up at 30, but can you see girls in their 40s who are hot as fuck. 30 is the age where you can't slide by on talent anymore, but have to actually work.
I like this. A lot. Well said.
So many guys I know that peaked in college and are now the married dad-bod types whose only joy is pounding brews on the weekend, if their wives even let them.
Fuck that makes me kind of mad. The current state of men these days is pitiful.
The last line hit me hard.
Overcoming struggle is the way to become a man. It could be yourself, depression, anxiety, trauma. Whatever it is that keeps you up at night.
When you overcome that struggle, you’ll stop being a little bitch.
Most of the guys nowadays won’t have any sort of huge problem, and even f they do, only a fraction would actually try to do something about it. A SMALLER fraction of that fraction would actually overcome his obstacles.
It will leave you powerful, manly, and a nofucksgiven frame of mind.
Such a fantastic reply my man.
Reply should be combined with u/Whisper post and added to sidebar. Best content seen in a while.
Superbly written, if I might amend:
Knowledge enables. Effort implies outcome dependence and struggle. Awareness begets effortlessness.
If Chad was born with the same innocence as you did, what happened?
Anything that happens to you lies within your nature. Therefore Chad merely aquired his awareness by different means. Ergo, the way of The Red Pill is to float to the top naturally. TRP is for those who lost their way. Chad never lost his and therefore never ended up here, not that he needed to in the first place.
Chad merely is a placeholder, an archetype, like The Hero. Every society or culture had such an archetype, because it sets you apart from the masses.
Then what exactly is the key ingredient that sets you apart? Stoicism. Outcome independence.
While others complain, bitch, hamster, cry, whatever. You do, knowing you will win.
And this shit makes you antifragile.
You talking about Chaddish relaxed laziness merely sets your standards apart from any Chad you deem lazy. You both remain Alpha.
Being not natural makes me feel sometimes like a cuck and it's very hard to work it through for me now. Like when I see how a plate I nailed thanks to a shitload of SMV grind, work effort, superior game skills and mentalist button pushing still goes after my chad friend when she meets him. He does no game, no PU shit, no effort, she just starts to chase him on her own just because he appeared in scope while I had to do all this work and take all the initiative in every step. It's like seeing same kind of candy you fought for hard being handed out to other kid for free. It's beta and childish to feel like that but I still find this demotivating. I wish girls would prioritize me naturally like my natural friends. Now it's like "show me your game you non-chad peon and I may gracefully grant you my golden pussy for a while If I feel like it but I'd still prefer to hand it out for this other guy for free".
Yes, this is exactly what I am talking about, and this is exactly the mentality that will stunt your growth. I know it sucks, but you have to understand and accept this, or really it will fuck you up.
Just understand that A) it will get easier. Right now you work and grind for the pussy because you're higher SMV than before, but still not really high enough. You've got better game than before, but not great. You're not better than your Chad friend just because you fucking read TRP and did the little shit we said to do - shit you should have done anyway.
This is the key - you are not inherently any more deserving of pussy than any other man. You take the pussy, you don't sit back and reel it in passively like a paycheck that you get for your hard work. Pussy is taken; every single girl I've fucked I've stolen her from some other guy. There was some other guy in the picture who wanted that pussy, but I had something he didn't.
You want pussy, you have to give her something she can't get from Chad. Because if you can't do that, then why should she fuck you instead of the real thing? You know? Would you rather fuck Sophia Vergara in her prime or a reddit xxfitness chick who is a total 7 but in reasonably goodshape from doing strong curves?
Don't be bitter. If you improve enough, you will see out their window.
You are still experiencing the sexual marketplace as a beta male - just as an enlightened, competent beta male. When you cross over, it will all change. AF/BB is real. AFs experience the world differently because the entire economics is different for them. Like you said, they prioritize you and hand it out for free. And all you have to do to get that is be a swole, lean, well-dressed, rich, confident, sexually aggressive, high T male.
Aren't these things you should want to be anyway? These are all things that you should work for EVEN IF THERE WAS NO PUSSY IN IT.
When you do that, it's not work, it's not "let me earn your pussy and deserve it by virtue of my hard work." It's "I did this shit, oh and by the way, it gets bitches wet as a byproduct."
That change is possible. Yes, Chads get to that level relatively easy and naturally. Sorry bro. But at the end of the day, you need to just quit bitching about having to pay a higher price, and get busy paying that price.
Deposits into your account (SMV) today mean that you pay less in time and effort to fuck bitches tomorrow. Deposit enough into your SMV, you do get to fuck bitches for close to free.
Is that as good as being a Chad? I mean, if you're a blackpillcel cuck, then no, it's not. If you're an ambitious hardworking person, then it's better.
SMV farm is a way of life in itself, that's true and it should never stop. But is see less and less value in pussy chase and that was the only way I was getting it lately. I want to experience a feeling of being desired one, not the other way round. In some aspects the feeling itself, even without sex, brings more satisfaction than getting a pussy that you sort of begged for.
Amen my man. I shall follow your path.
Cheers!
this reply is so good it should be a post on its own
Red pill core right here fellas
So...5 or 10 years. If this is the average time required to internalize TRP for a typical guy in here, this subreddit really is full of omegas. But this makes sense, guys are so angry here - even some ECs seem really butthurt and trying to hide it behind aggressive behaviour (or just trying to mimic GLO really poorly).
I'd liked to think that there is a notable portion of guys like me who had their shit together but wanted a bit more so little tweaking for 1-2 years would be enough.
It is completely based on the experiences you A) have been through and B) are willing to go through. For example, you take a soft doughy 18 year old Israeli kid, put him through tough bootcamp and 2 years of mandatory military service, where he's repeatedly put in harms way, and when he comes out, he'll have changed a lot.
Now you take a 18 year old kid and have him do Krav Maga and read about manliness and lift, and in 10 years do you think he'll have grown as much as that kid did in 2 years? (Assuming the Israeli kid developed the right attitude and received good leadership / didn't get killed).
10 years, 5 years, etc etc it's all based on what you are willing to do.
How long does it take to get good at pickup? Maybe 3 months. Maybe 3 years. Depends on how internally motivated you are + what base of skills you are working with + what experiences you go through.
How long does it take to internalize that you can actually get hot women without PU and without doing anything, simply by being you, and therefore getting girls is just an expression of you doing what you anyways want to do with your life?
For me that took me 10 years. For someone else, they learned this in high school. For another guy, they won't learn this ever, they will be 60 years old and still regretting that they couldn't be a Chad in high school.
You see what I mean, it's about what you are willing to do.
How fast will you internalize a true alpha personality? Well how willing are you to literally let yourself die as a person to forge someone better and more capable, and then chase challenging experiences relentlessly that force you to develop real alpha traits? How willing are you to find social groups and learn to dominate them, and learn to actually get 9s and 10s, and learn to ruthlessly pursue what you want out of life regardless of social judgment?
Most people are not really willing to do all that. So they chase tame experiences of minor growth. "FR: I kissed a girl!" It's fine, it's totally a good improvement for that person, but let's be honest - alphas became alpha by repeatedly doing the shit that makes betas either uncomfortable, butthurt, fearful, tired, or burnt out.
Excellent answer.
With hard work you can achieve A LOT and outdo most people.
While you cannot beat a natural who's also willing to work just as hard, they're only a small minority.
I needed to read this. Thank you.
This, and OP are one the best things I've read, like, in years. Thank you.
To live is to struggle.
Comfort is the antithesis of growth.
Only through growth, are you able to adapt.
Only through stress, do you gain strength to overcome.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Men swing between fragility and rigidity.
Too rigid, and the man will break under the load.
Too fragile, and the man will not have the strength to carry the load.
Be antifragile. Seek to rectify your weaknesses. Do not become complacent. Complacency breeds weakness.
Dogma versus philosophy. It's not enough to be given the tools to succeed- competence in their application is necessary. Be less like a peacock and more like an iceberg. Give yourself depth.
So next time you see a Chad, recognize him for what he is- a weakling.
Because he has never struggled- so when he finally comes face-to-face with adversity, he will crumble. He'll "hit the wall."
But there is no wall that cannot be overcome by a redpilled man. There is only a choice-
"Will I push forward?"
A redpilled man sees life for what it is- one giant shit-test. You either pass, or you fail.
You fail when you quit.
You succeed by pushing forward.
The choice is yours and yours alone. No one can make you do anything you don't want to do.
Men who enjoy nothing but success, fall apart when confronted with failure.
Only a weak man can truly appreciate strength.
Real men lean into fear. They are afraid, and know from that fear that they are on the edge, away from the comfort zone that does not lead to growth.
I forgot the name of the book I read that in or I'd give credit.
TLDR:
Relationship game is control game. Because men are naturally protective of women, and women are not naturally protective of men, relationships are long-term viable to precisely degree that the man is in charge.
In initial contact with a woman, controlling behaviours appear weak, thirsty, needy, and creepy as fuck, and indifference behaviours appear relaxed, confident, and powerful. But as emotional investment visibly increases on both sides, indifference gradually begins to appear avoidant, unassertive, unconfident, passive-aggressive, and, you guessed it, creepy as fuck.
A certain point, you simply have to make your expectations clear to a woman, or she will believe you are afraid to. At a certain point, you have to be possessive, or she will believe you are afraid to. At a certain point, you have to punish rather than ignore bad behaviour, or she will believe you are afraid to.
I needed to read this.
Indifference is a novelty, a novelty that many men in this day and age do not have. But as with all novelties it wears off, and when a woman grows tired of a novelty they assume there is some huge backstory to it.
It's not the fact that you are just an indifferent asshole, no to her it's she figured out that you were just actually a pussy that tricked her. See I'm an indifferent asshole, but being indifferent to everything makes you look like you can't act on anything. I literally have to force myself to care or else I come across as paralyzed by social pressure. My indifference to where to eat, or what to do eventually comes across as being afraid to decide and take control. My indifference that the 500th dude hit on her at the bar makes me look like I'm afraid to stop it. When that lightswitch flips ALL other past events are seen in that light, you weren't indifferent, you were ALWAYS a pussy she just couldn't see it before because you tricked her.
There comes a time with women when naturally you can't be completely indifferent with them anymore. The mere fact that you have seen a woman and continue to spend time with her for 5 months SHOWS you have more then indifference to her. So when you continue on with indifference as your only game it comes off as being too weak to act.
The general populace doesn't understand sunk cost, especially when it comes to dating, the concept doesn't even exist. So to women time equals an investment. Indifference is awesome in the beginning because it's something new and exciting. All their go to tricks don't seem to work with you and that gets them excited.
But after a while they know you have some sort of investment in them or you wouldn't be ringing them up for the 50th time. So your indifference becomes, in their mind, weakness. You stop being the cool indifference guy and become the man afraid of action.
You're right I've noticed the same, every time I go out for a longer time with them this starts to happen.
I truly do not give a fuck what I will eat tonight, as long as I just eat something. But in their eyes it's a weakness.... I choose fast and they still think I just pick something because I can't choose rather then not giving a damn.
" My indifference that the 500th dude hit on her at the bar makes me look like I'm afraid to stop it."
Seen this happen too, at start they like that I don't care and after that they think I'm weak. And when I finally do something about the dudes hitting on her she thinks I'm weak for caring too much??
That's why relationship is kinda game about delaying your loss
So what if she thinks you’re weak. It’s another shit test which everything is with a woman. They’ll see if you will conform to their frame of you being weak. Reject the double bind she puts you in. Walk away and you can come back. She walks away and she’ll never come back. Just yesterday my girl called me pathetic because I wouldn’t leave my friends house to pick her up and bring her there. I held my frame and was indifferent to her manipulation and guess what she drove to my friends house and we had sex later that night. And I’ve been on and off with this girl for three years. I’ll miss her and enjoyed our time together but I’m NEVER the one that comes back to her. Like Rollo says and I’m paraphrasing “don’t look through garbage hoping to find a diamond.” You need to value yourself and never bend to any form of manipulation a woman throws at you. It’s their only way of navigating the social world so don’t get mad at them for it but stand your ground. Frame is the only thing that is yours in this world and it’s just your turn with any woman.
The walking away and coming back only works for so long, it's just another game she will figure out eventually. Sure you can prolonge that by being really good at sex, or super dominate or whatever gets her wet. But eventually, she will figuring out the game and leave. I do agree you should just let them. But you can experience some great times without all this leaving and coming back drama if you can manage it.
I firmly believe a healthly relationship with a woman is one where you don't see each other for 4 months at a time. But I'm starting to change my idea of that all requiring her to hate me for 2 of those months and the drama I have to go through everytime I "break up". Men are meant to go on journeys and be away from the home, that is not possible with most careers so plating is usually the best option. But I'm not so sure you have to shatter each plate when you drop it for the time being. Sometimes you can just put it in the cabinet and eat off it later when you fancy what that plate has to offer your desired meal.
Thanks for replying. The only thing I want to touch on is the figuring out the game part. I agree but it’s not a game for me. I won’t adjust my behavior on that end. If she feels like it’s a game that she’s got figured out then good riddance. I’m not in the relationship to keep her entertained. If she gets bored then she’ll get bored eventually so I dgaf whether she stays or goes. Women want to know you are who you say you are. For all I know she’s in her feels and just shit testing me and if I think she’s getting bored well I’m already in her frame and I deserve what happens as a result of the failed shit test. Like I said it’s all about frame. And I’ll shatter a plate if I need to but just the perception that you can do that keeps them in line. Unless she’s BP then run away!!!
my exact situation and phase. After 7 months of her trying to let commitment and me bot giving it, shes showing up looking like a snack to events that IVE orchestrated and am leading and IGNORING me. I was so confused at first but now its making sense. Anything similar ever happened to you?
Well the difference between you and I is I knew it was going to happen, so I wasn't surprised. At the end I stayed as long as I need to move out without lasting problems and when the right time came I caused the issues to break out, dealt with the bullshit for 2 weeks and moved on. If you hang around in indifference too long you are viewed as weak. You need to transfer to a control based relationship earlier then feels right. If you get to the point were the relationship feels like it's changing, your kinda fucked. You need to be ahead and forcing these changes to ensure happiness on both your ends. If your going to get into a relationship with a woman that is deeper then just "fuckin on a friday", you need to control it.
I hear you, so based on the "niggas aint shit" rhetoric reinforced by her friends about me and her IGNORING tactics all the suddenly being used, I believe these started after a few things: Her wanting to get dropped off at my house when i had to be up really early and saying flat out NO, and some recent photos taken of her by a decent photographer in town boosting her ego combined with my 7 months of my strict plating and life focus that didn't include her.
Shes initiated this new dynamic, not me. Is there any maneuvering this to my advantage? Or am i too late? There are wins and losses I recognize on going onto control her, or not. Either way, i will live with contently.
I'd say that as you transition a girl from plate to girlfriend, or from dating to wife in normie speak, you enter a critical phase. The boundary setting phase. Over a year or three subtle and not so subtle negotiations take place. The alpha male will negotiate his commitment to not bail and to not sleep with other women in return for the woman taking on her role as household manager and full time support of her man. Meaning cooking meals at home from scratch, cleaning the man's (and her own) residence, taking care of his clothing, and playing an amazing support role for the life he is offering to share with her.
The beta male, the thirsty male, doesn't even realize that he is negotiating his commitment and will rather press for her commitment. Thereby demonstrating in the real discussion that he values his commitment at nothing and hers as higher value than his own. This sets the relationship into a death spiral where the man will later get divorced and end up here. Without even realizing that this was all set in motion the moment he gave his commitment away.
Many women are so used to dealing with beta males that they suffer extreme cognitive dissonance when they realize that your commitment, each and every step of it, comes at a price.
Looking forward to any future essays you come up with about moving from player to patriarch.
The only part I disagree with is the particular element of not sleeping with other women.
I drop the word 'threesomes' from date 1. To get me to commit is to accept the fact that I enjoy sexual variety - and not only on birthdays.
This guy gets it.
Control game is all about aggressive boundary setting.
Good post and analysis of indifference vs control.
But I dare to say that it's only theoretical and doesn't cover the whole reality of day to day Chaddism. I agree that there are traits that hugely increase the odds that many a lass will swoon over you: build, looks, bone structure, indifference, control, money, status, talent, dick size, dress style, spontaneity etc.
I'd like to add that what attracts a woman to a man is endlessly mysterious and that Chad is probably as often as not a relative factor. Meaning, as long as Chad is more confident than the woman in question, more quick witted than the woman in question, funnier than she's ever experienced, etc, he stands a good chance of banging her.
The factor you're keeping constant, that isn't constant irl, is the 'receiver'.
Some women will have experienced funnier guys, more confident guys, more influential guys, richer guys, smoother guys, guys that were more ripped, had bigger dicks etc. An average Chad won't stand a chance with them either.
But, as long as their standards are below what he has to offer/as long as he tops their expectations and experience, he's good to go.
Money example, a woman who's had Bobbie's $10k gifts won't value Kevin's $5k gifts, but she'll be impressed with Chad's €20k gifts. Same goes for dick size, house, car, height, education, influence etc.
So in the end, as long as you seek out women who've had less than you have to offer, you're 'Chad status' to them.
Tldr; The size of the receiver matters just as much as the size of the transmitter.
That's a great point. It's not even strictly necessary for you to be the best she's ever had/experienced in a given category; a lot of benefit comes if you're on the top end of what she can generally find.
I had a quite high n-count FWB who I'm sure has seen nicer & bigger dicks than mine, but spontaneously commented a number of times about how and why she loved mine.
Still, I'm glad my LTR is very low n-count so that in the above and other categories I'm the best she's experienced.
'If you're on the top end' - true, agreed.
'How and why she loved mine' - I guess it's true as well: as soon as love gets into the mix, a lot of superficial criteria go out the door. Sometimes forever. Most times temporarily tho. Sad. Good luck with the ltr, bruh.
Oh with that FWB it wasn't love for either of us, just great sex.
Yeah it's true that love can (at least temporarily) blind a woman to a guy's faults. I'm reminded of that recent hilarious post about Stacy's Credo!
I am glad someone finally said this. I come from a very interesting camp in that I was an overweight but very social and somewhat intelligent kid and teenager, spent most of that time being the needy nice guy, lost a ton of weight and made some very serious life changes and started having women notice me and then send me choosing signals on their own. I read mystery’s book and the game and took those to heart and learned a tremendous amount about dating dynamics and how women actually respond. then progressed to the point of feeling like I needed to settle down and have a family and actively wanting to assume the beta bucks role, which absolutely blew my mind when i tried to keep a decent quality girl around and i failed over and over again to the point of actually destroying my self confidence. Hooking up with them had become easy. I’ve had women of all skill sets and calibers but I could not for the life of me not figure this out, which actually led me to the red pill. I’ve since shed that lonely old man myth and mindset and went back to my old ways of living life and I’ve never been better. But it really did open my eyes to how much different things can be in an LTR setting, and how even a natural chad would fail there. Indifference was never my problem, it was always this control frame
And this would be where I completely shit the bed. When I got to Legal Cohabiting Female, while obviously wasn't completely inaccessible, she was substantially frigid compared to pretty much every other woman I experienced. I took it as a sign of virtue, when clearly it was a sign of waning interest.
This would probably be why I didn't find out about the other guy she was fucking until AFTER we were married. Women instinctually know how to manage these situations.
Sounds like you were Chad.
Chad is inferior to studied game in the same way that pillow Japanese is inferior to classroom Japanese. The guy who learned Japanese by fucking Kimiko knows how to say "please could you get me a beer, honoured superior?", but the guy who learned it in class knows the difference between that and "go fetch me a beer, bitch".
If you have only indifference game, your only option to get what you want is Next... in other words, throw what you have away and take another random draw from the grab bag. This means you can't make minor adjustments. Your only option is "take whatever you get" or "start from scratch".
Relationships don't work that way.
We talk endlessly here about giving less fucks, because that's the advice that most young bros need... they tend to be needy, and overinvest. But after a couple of years, you better be invested, or it means your relationship is shit.
And when you are invested, you have to know how to act in that situation. Chad doesn't.
Do you have a wife or LTR? Does it bring you more happiness than when you were spinning plates? Seems like its a good idea to spin plates for a time when your young or just learning trp, but successful men who have already finished that phase seem to want that 1 good woman
Folks around here who have their noses to the wind know my LTR status.
Yes, but what do you mean, "were"?
It's a matter of individual preference. Some guys never want to sleep with the same woman twice. Others can't get it up for any woman they haven't known for a couple of weeks at least.
Bullshit. A long-term monogamous relationship does not equate to "success". I know a shitload of "successful" men who are divorced and will not risk their empire again. Even if they decide to only deal with one woman, she isn't getting the contract.
You were right at saying "phase". Remember, phases are circular, not linear. Understanding the real reasons about why your biology wants to "settle" down is RP.
Yeah I don't think indifference game only works, I feel the need to supplement. Like ufc fighters you need striking, submissions, groundwork, a good physique, insight....
Any ideas what to supplement it with?
The Sidebar.
Another comment comes to mind. For guys who (are in a phase of or just in general) prefer short term dating only, "take whatever you get or start from scratch" can be fine. You don't need to optimize a dynamic/set expectations with a new woman because regardless of whether it's perfect sex men are programmed to enjoy new partners, ie the Coolidge Effect. And rest assured that among all the different lovers you will find your kinks covered (but probably not from one person, or even all available from a given set of plates at a given point in time).
But it's an automatic commitment disqualifier if a woman can't/won't meet all of my needs. Mind you I don't expect an LTR to be the best at everything, just the best at a few things while putting in effort to be serviceable at everything else.
This is a very good point.
What other tools do we have? Does our power still come from our willingness to next someone if they aren't meeting our needs, but is applied by working with the LTR to help her get to where she is doing so?
Yes.
The more you are invested, the less imminent this threat becomes... but the more she is invested, the more dire that threat is.
I'll talk about how to play control game in my next article. Stay tuned.
Interesting, I never thought of it that way. Perhaps more investment on my part isn't necessarily a path to lost leverage.
Think of it this way, it isn't always about putting more in, but simply understanding "why" you invested and being able to pass shit tests that question your commitment.
Yall are speaking directly to me right now. Shit.
They know how to
managemanipulate the man.They are fucking terrible at the overall "situation". They make incredibly bad logistics decisions and glow with guilt.
Men, in general, are just ignorant to the screaming red flags. Why? those lovely, lovely chemicals in our brain and willful denial to "keep the peace".
Don't worry, I thought mine was also virtuous until she told me, with a feral grin, about the multiple MFM 3ways she'd had.
You live and learn.
Not really, some people are simply extroverted, more confident, more witty, creative, risk takers, ambitious by genetics. Personality is already defined at birth and has nothing to do with your life.
Throughout life, it changes through your experiences, but you always come out of the vagina with a preprogrammed personality with better attributes here and worse attributes there.
Abundance alone isn't what makes Chad attractive. Chad always has to get to abundance, which is simply not possible for 90% of men. He needs some game for that, be it natural or learned, coupled with good looks.
Your comment should be way higher. OP's notion that we are born equal in abilities and traits is so ridiculous i couldnt continue reading.
Well, you should and don't be so dramatic. I agree with the guy you replied with, but this doesn't shut down OP's entire write up.
Correlation =/= causation
Chad doesn't get girls because he's indifferent, he's indifferent because he gets a lot of girls.
Acting indifferent won't change anything for you.
ok
It has absolutely done wonders.
It works like a charm... if the chick likes you in the first place.
Most guys fail with chicks who liked them initially.
These two go hand in hand, my man. One make the other one more pronounced. I notice it in myself and in others all the time. There's also the negative spiral of caring too much and having no girls.
I've met Chad. He has a hard time dealing with failure, many of the older guys that make their way here are 'fallen alphas'.
he's a nice heuristic, I would stop short at calling him a role model. He IS competition for you, even though he's not playing the game
A man who has never been weak, can never truly appreciate strength.
Likewise a man who has never failed, cannot truly appreciate success.
Struggle begets purpose for men.
It's only when a man struggles that he grows.
Growth begets strength.
Growth can only occur when a man gives himself room to grow.
If he never steps outside of his comfort zone- he'll never be anything more than what he is.
You all are coming from the viewpoint of wanting a relationship, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If that’s your goal, your points are valid. For those of us out here just doing our thing and getting laid when we want, indifference and IDGAF works, and very well. Girl gets pissed I don’t commit? Fuck it, on to the next one. Girl does something I don’t like? Fuck it, on to the next one. I got a son and my own life pursuits to worry about, I don’t want nor need a woman distracting me or bringing me down, I just like pounding pussy here and there.
I’ve played both sides of the field, spent most of my young adult life married and being the textbook beta schlub. Now I have a few girls that consistently contact me when they want laid. There is of course many levels between the two examples, but I’m not personally interested in trying to keep one (or several) girls satiated in anything other than sex.
My name is literally Chad. Always find it funny people use that name around here as a symbol. Anyhow I would argue that a natural masculine Chad would always have the advantage over anyone who is well practiced. That's simply because women are attracted to masculinity. Shit tests, male behavior, physical appearances, and even your smell are all ways women gauge a man's masculinity. Game, money, and power are incredibly important things that will win you many women but if you lack masculine traits a woman will never respect you (and hence not be attracted to you). It is necessary to be androgenic (masculine from a physiological point of view) to be successful with women. People are naturally very good at at judging someone's androgen levels using various cues. It cannot be faked. If you've ever known anyone who's done steroids you would know that their entire presence changes and it's not just the muscles or the way they act.
I am inclined to agree here, at least to the extent that this appears to be true. In other words, that there is something concrete being given by women that can be legitimately possessed by a Chad.
On the other hand we have to consider what /u/Thotwrecker said which can run contrary to this concept:
What I’m seein here is a disagreement about whether a Chad can have Self-Ownership, which seems to be the impetus of control. I like Self-Ownership because it is a good way for the individual to distinguish themselves from their environment.
It is one thing for women to willingly give control, in the sense of Self-Ownership, to a man. For her to do this she is exrpressing that her life is not her own and therefore she recognizes herself to be an extension of the life of the man to whom she is subordinates.
However, if it is true that a Chad isn’t necessarily actively in a state of Self-Ownership, then to what does a had belong?
I believe what Thotwrecker suggests is true, that a Chad without Self-Ownership belongs to his environment. Thus, he is in a more natural state as opposed to an intellectual one. This sheds light on some, but likely not all, of the causes /u/Whisper identifies for why a Chad’s relationship deteriorates.
If he cannot be in a state of active Self-Ownership then he will remain in a state of passive subordination to his environment i.e., he is Blue Pill. So no matter how attractive he is, his attraction is a function of the environment itself and not of the individual. When a female offers her life or subordination to a male who lacks Self-Ownership, very little change actually occurs. They are both remain in a state of potential for self actualizing, as their relationship more or less is a function of their environment. To become something more than this one must have Self-Ownership and apply intellect to their life as opposed to letting nature run its course. Intellect is what allows one to have control, because it is what allows one to have in general.
This, however, is not to say that all Alphas are Chads, which should be obvious. I do believe a Chad by definition however does lack Self-Ownership, and therefore becoming Chad is antithetical to TRP.
Good explanation of how there really IS an element of truth in all those sad stories that begin I used to be Alpha but after I got married I gained a few pounds/started to lose time and interest in my hobbies and friends/and she stopped enjoying sex with me
Looking forward to next part of this series
Wow, finally an article that shows the truth. Not only that Chad is mostly looks based and previous good experience based, but that he is basically colossus standing on clay legs. It also perfectly describes my brother, he is beta to the core, always delving into next RELATIONSHIP asap, but the abundance made it work. It's like he has no libido except at the sex time
This is me. I’m great the one night stands and fwb but as soon as I get in a relationship I don’t feel normal. I honestly think it goes against my nature to be in a relationship
spinning plates is ideal. This whole thread is about Ltr game which in itself shows a lack of indifference. If you end up married or find yourself in divorce court you lacked indifference along the way.
"Because cats always seem easy to get along with when you're holding a can of tuna. " Great Analogy
Why would anyone want an LTR though?>
You've been here a lot longer than me, but 'control' is exactly what we all tried to do in our beta relationships. If a girl isn't up to your expectations - NEXT. Thats why you have two in the kitty, thats why we talk about abundance mentality. Possessing your girl was weak.
The only thing making me doubt myself here is your handle, so tell me if I'm missing something - lead by example, have boundaries and be the kind of person she's scared to lose if she breaks them, yeah, but tell me where you draw the line between how much effort you put into controlling a current girl compared to finding a new girl? That shouldn't be too much effort put into controlling if you've got options, and you shouldn't be in an LTR without options, so..?
Actually that would explain a lot why hollywood's male stars are such prima-donna weenies who come out on the social justice bandwagon "save the planet", "MeToo", etc; Why go through the effort of having to actually think and explore an ideological or intellectual concept when your fame and women have just been handed to you. (And why many of their marriages are disasters)
Why do you have to keep rubbing the Katie thing in...
Alpha and Chad often get mixed in a grey area. The contextual alpha (the only real way to measure 'Alpha') can be 'Chad' but only in certain aspects, whereas Chad is always and ideal archetype, contextual or not. If anything he is equal to or greater than the contextual Alpha i.e. the rockstar who gets the young pussy wet, but is a bitch in the eyes of his wife who would still fuck Chad inside or outside the concert venue.
In reality Chad just represents the alpha as seen through the eyes of a beta and the women who have been burned by him.
Also, the irony of Chad Thundercock is that despite him being the evil arch type alpha that steals your girlfriend and fucks your sister, but doesn't call her back the next days that this forum often uses him as, many of the members of this form would probably qualify as being a Chad Thundercock themselves.
At worst, Chad is just the alpha who uses his powers in a manor deemed unacceptable by those who have either fallen victim to his charm or aspire to be him.
Also this is to note: there is no one true chad. Even a Chad one day can be a sub Chad the next. The Chad is the idealized moment or set of moments of being the top Alpha. All Chads fall. Either through old age, or burn out, or getting tied down.
man and you guys claim women are the hamsterers
Funny story...when I was a pathetic Bluepilled beta schlub, the first "girlfriend" I ever got was simply due to complete indifference. Partly because I had zero game, partly because I was completely unaware, and partly because I legit thought she was just another female friend. I laugh when I look back because she was giving IOIs up the whazoo, constantly trying to get close to me (I was such a loser then I would just move away...or if we were together in the evening, I would just leave), and always making contact with me (I never initiated because I honestly was not that interested in her). This went on for like 3 months until we finally got drunk one night and...well you know.
Indifference does indeed work, even if it because of the wrong reasons. If you can add in game, high SMV, and amused mastery/confidence, it really honestly becomes easy. For me, it just comes down to vetting after that.
Take my god damned upvote
This reminds me of another post a while back on how it is better to be a "learned" alpha than a natural one.
You noted this well in your post that even though things may seem effortless to Chad when things go wrong (which they will) Chad will be helpless to his circumstances because he has no real red pilled knowledge.
This post exactly describes me prior to, then with my oneitis.
Great article.
Fuck ya man this post was great! I’ve been reading on here a lot these past months and this post really felt it gave some new insight I hadn’t really grasped before! Stoked on this! Very appreciative to be a part of this school!
This is very well thought out
I think the point of this article is contrary to the Red Pill ideology. Acting indifferent is denying your desires, at least in appearance. That is unmanly because being honest with yourself and others in one of the male ideals.
"Pure indifference game is increasingly ineffective in relationships" So you are saying being indifferent to your partner does not work?
Acting indifferent is part of the game, the mating dance throughout nature. Nature documentaries on television show this. The female will act indifferent when a male performs his mating dance, a male will act indifferent when challenged by another male. Emphasis on ACT since the ritual is serious, it IS an act. And the dance itself is honest? Ask a lizard, ask a bird, ask a spider or fish or any other creature when he dances, wiggles, and flashes his colors to arouse a female who pretends to be uninterested.
"Being honest with yourself" means "I'm as horny as shit, I gotta move on this lady" which means performing a ritual.
Indifference comes from self-esteem which comes from proper parenting. Children who grow up with love, love others.
But that is a mind game. It just clouds your intentions, denying the male ideal! If you act indifferent, how does the target of affection know you are perfiorming a ritual or just genuinely indifferent? And if you act interested does that mean you risk a rejection, projecting confidence, or are desperate, since you made a move, projecting low self-esteem?
And besides, in the animal kingdom, males and females are very attentive to displays from others and it shows. If they are not how can they evaluate are answer efficiently to offers or threats? Just watch this couple of king fihsers: They are both very interested in seeing what the other has and how it reacts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDwitOMyOns
I have a friend that seemed like a natural back in the day- tall, buff as fuck, made decent money for his age, fun to be around. He'd message at least 5 new girls every day, so he always had some sort of options. And then he got in to a LTR- proposed after a year, she sucked his wallet dry and then dumped him for a richer dude. It took a year and a half form him to recover.
His journey was very interesting to watch from the side.
Let's compare parents. Say your parents argued all the time, showed no love for each other or for you when you were little, then divorced. After the divorce, none of the adults your parents dated showed any interest in you either.
Now Chad Thundercock's parents loved each other, hugged and kissed each other and hugged and kissed Chad when he was a baby. They held Chad and told him they loved him and supported him and helped him with his homework so he got good grades and his teachers liked him. He was happy at school and all the other kids liked him and he had lots of friends.
That is why Chad seems to be a natural while WE have to learn the hard way. It's not our fault. Some parents love their children and build their self-esteem and others do not.
Chad's self-confidence and "indifference" is based on the self-esteem his parents gave him. When he snuggles up to a girl and she tells him to bug off, he thinks SHE is the problem. He says, what's your problem lady? and walks away shaking his head, what a creep that girl is, the opposite from us, whose self-esteem is destroyed by rejection.
This is a great post and something that I understood as well during my journey. Dread game should always be there passively, but trying to run away from her/ignore her/agreeing and amplifying all her shit tests eventually makes you look and feel weak af.
You summed up my problem pretty well.
Is there really any point at which indifference becomes creepy? I have never seen this in my life.
What's so interesting is the flipping of this dynamic. As a quasi natural, I thought the same thing when seeing my friends do "control game." My college roommate would pull a "fake mad" on his girlfriend. We would call this dread. I thought it was immature and manipulative. Earnestly communicate man! Meanwhile his girlfriends would be addicted to him for years...
Appreciate the outline here!
Wrong. Chad's spawn like the terminator in T3!
Lol dude, you are confused what chad means haha. He's just an archetype of the ideal man
I'm going to disagree with you totally. I don't exactly understand this ideal 'Chad' you're referring to, but I'm pretty sure whoever it is, they don't have puny intellects compared to your massive brain that understands female psychology like no other.
You claim that there are no naturals. If you're talking about babies, perhaps. But even at very young ages, personality traits emerge, such as being someone who wants to be in charge, be a leader. That's certainly one way of stating what women want (although there are other ways). So, yes, people can naturally grow into roles that you are currently trying your hardest to change your course into.
There's nothing so enlightening about this stuff that someone who never visited this forum would never have any idea about. Most of it is relevant in things other than sex, so it's common knowledge with common practicality.
You’re totally misunderstanding what he was saying! He stated chad is a confident dude, that’s why he seems to be great with girls! But he clearly said “that doesn’t mean he knows what makes them tick” .... I call it “dumb confidence” ... I see a lot of super annoying people with it. Dudes who will sit in the lunch room and won’t shut up to everyone, while we all sit there and think , dude it’s break time stfu!” .... but when this same person behaves this way around women... women naturally feed off of it, because of course, they like confident men!!!! But OP even explained why “being a leader and being confident” doesn’t make you a natural. You’re not reading the situation, you’re not understanding women, it’s just your natural confidence is able to catch a lot of attention.
Just because you don't have the same formal theory, that doesn't mean they aren't reading people and understanding their motives. You're underestimating 'dumb confidence'.
True these guys have social intelligence because they pay attention to others actions and not their own.