How much of female love is performative?

nemporisso · 2020-05-30T10:54:25+00:00

You're asking vastly different questions. Those archetypes are roles women play to get men to like them, as your examples show. It's not a performance of love in the way a gold-digger will "fall in love" with a 75 year old man.

I think all of these reflect a learning process. Fundamentally we want to be liked, especially by people we take an interest in.

NUE4T9x · 2020-05-30T11:24:09+00:00

I don't think there is a fundamental difference between "performance" and "real persona". It is like beauty and fashion, but the choices are bit less conscious. People adjust their appearance and behaviour to fit circumstances. In hindsight it might look embarrassing, but so what.

The relevant part is how they interacted, and how to what degree they hold themselves accountable.

The quotes seem to be superficial and deflecting responsibility. Anything on the form "I was too generous/trusting/giving/whatever in order to please ABC" is a red flag for me. Indicates issues on accountability.

If you want to say something retrospective and valuable, let it be on the form "I wanted A, so I did B, which gave me C" without referring to any third person. Be comfortable with your mistakes and your flaws.

NarniaFox · 2020-05-30T11:07:23+00:00

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that you're assuming that when women are loving and affectionate they're performing?

It isn't what those women were talking about. You do a performance and play a role, when you're insecure and afraid of being yourself. It also sometimes helps to cope with your surroundings and things you can't change right now. It has nothing to do with being in love and loving someone.

Cobra_x30 · 2020-05-30T15:22:40+00:00

Yes, a small portion of women do act a certain way to be more attractive. However, it's not that common.

As a woman if 1 guy finds you attractive, 1 guy finds you attractive. As a man if 1 woman finds you attractive, 10 more will find you attractive because of it. Therefore performative roles play a more powerful role for men.

Also, women who act dumb to attract a man are attempting to attract stupid men... generally the popular athletic type. I don't see how she can complain about that. If you want a dipshit then don't complain that you have to act like a dipshit to get one.

2020-05-30T15:53:14+00:00

I don’t think it’s usually intentionally performative, it’s just what so many women have seen in movies and tv shows and those women always seem to get the guy of their dreams. The love is real, but women often believe that deep down, they are unlovable. So yeah it’s a mixture of low self-esteem and being misled by rom coms. I think a lot of women also have some mild tendencies of those tropes—they are easy-going and chill, or they are kinda quirky, or they can be a little charmingly ditzy—and when men respond positively they play that part of themself up. It’s a lot like how guys who realize that when they act more dominant or cocky they get more girls, so they play that part of themself up with women.

the_purring_jew · 2020-05-30T14:04:47+00:00

you are referring to the behaviors women engage in to INSPIRE love from men or try to get it as "female love"

AbyssinianLion · 2020-05-30T11:14:55+00:00

I wonder, do women hate their performative feminine roles as much as many men hate their performative masculine roles?

bytheorangetrees · 2020-05-30T13:01:03+00:00

Being that my true self is an autist, I have to put on SOME kind of act to maintain the flame

TheonuclearPyrophyte · 2020-05-30T16:11:54+00:00

Don't people of both sexes go through that phase of trying to fit a label?

paint-the-world-red · 2020-05-30T16:38:42+00:00

I’d say a lot of it is and we’re all doing it. Maybe not to the same extent as the next person, but we’re all doing it. Women learn that if they choose a specific archetype that’s deemed attractive to men, they play up that part because it works. Men learn that if we play up the archetype deemed attractive to men, we play it up because it works. Just take a look at TRP, RPW, FDS we’re all playing up and idealized role of what we’re expected to be and we contribute to do so because it pays off more often than not. In truth, I’m not the hyper-masculine dudebro that’s itching for a fight, I’m really a quiet guy that doesn’t want to play the role. Fundamentally, it’s a sign of adaptability in order to get what we want (sex, money, love, power, etc)

Archetypes help you get what you want based on your own goals and values. Truth is, we’re not as individualistic as we’ve been led to believe. You’re personality based on your chosen archetype doesn’t really even exist as strange as that may sound. We’re all following some kind of script to achieve the most happiness while minimizing the negatives until we die. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

cuckspace · 2020-05-30T17:10:38+00:00

I’ve had a whole marriage feel like a performance once it fell apart and she shed her mask. Nothing is as it seems with women.

MongrelLife · 2020-05-30T15:40:12+00:00

Lol so women do this much for Chad

I want to kms

SeemedGood · 2020-05-30T15:42:37+00:00

It’s all an act.

gaylord_fag · 2020-05-30T12:04:09+00:00

Yea I relate to this. Id love to have a performative role where I'm more loving but that's a sure fire way to get used & abandoned fast. I have to act like an angry bitter misanthrope to be any kind of challenge to a guy. But that's exhasting and never attracts the right kind of guy even if they do end up staying longer. Plus I never get what I feel is an actual reward. Which is the mushy stuff, cuddling & being loving. I'm waiting for the guy to give me what I actually want (mushy stuff) to crack open my bitter angry misanthrope shell. But if you give away the mushy stuff without pretending you hate it you get treated like a slot machine that pathetic insecure men who need to crawl back into their mommies use for attention.

wtknight · 2020-05-30T13:53:30+00:00

How much of female love is performative?

Probably a lot of it, because most people don't like to be alone so they play roles to attract the partners who they want. I think that men's romantic performances are even more ubiquitous than women's performances, though, because men are thirstier for sex. There are more women out there who are willing to be themselves and just wait for the right man to come along just because women are more content to be single and with their friends than men are. Of course, this means that sometimes women put on social roles among their female peers, but that's a different thing.

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rosmaskinen · 2020-05-30T16:16:50+00:00

I'm almost never ''myself''. I don't know what that is? Being comfortable with not putting effort in social interaction? If so, I try to never be ''myself'' out of respect for other people and myself. I don't believe in having a core identity or a true self, it feels like a weird myth of how humans work.

But in terms of performing archetypes, it's more a side effect of trying to pander to certain sentiments and looks. Presenting yourself in a reductive way in order to put forward a certain air. As for that, I haven't done that since I was 18 or so? It's an ineffective shortcut to be a likeable, pleasant person because friends and romantic interest will see through it quickly.

slavicgypsygirl · 2020-05-30T18:52:31+00:00

I am always myself; a very serious, direct, creative, athletic person who is super competitive

This isn't very likeable or relatable to most people but it is a great true way to filter people out

AloysiusC · 2020-05-30T19:50:55+00:00

Everything's a performance. Besides an actual knee-jerk or equivalent.

AggravatingTartlet · 2020-05-30T23:14:24+00:00

These two are the "coolest" girls ever: The 'Call her daddy' podcast girls. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGi3eCuxko37WB6uUr7LjA

i think these two are a perfect example of women who are going out of their way to be cool girls who are men pleasers. They're also making a lot of money out of it, so at least, in their case, it's not entirely a waste.

Usually, such women don't realize what they're doing until they're older, and then it hits them. They were turning themselves inside out to be considered cool in the eyes of the men they hang around. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-dangers-of-the-cool-girl-ideal_b_5873d393e4b0a5e600a78d4e

I think the way women are depicted in porn has a lot to do with it these days, but cool girls have always existed. They see that men are the dominant force in society and want to align themselves with them - without realizing they're not being their authentic selves.

ontherailstoday · 2020-05-31T00:38:47+00:00

Quite a bit. Every ideology and interest group sees female sexuality and emotions as fair game to create expectations and tell lies about until the average 18 year old woman barely knows herself enough to know if what she is feeling is her story about love or a someone else's story about love that she has just done the right things to fit into. A women's ability to be happy, to love and and feel loved is like a slush fund from which numerous people other than the woman herself see themselves as having the authorisation to write themselves checks. It is inherently destructive of true attraction and arousal of course.

If you disagree with this... consider for a moment how many times in the past year you have judged a woman whose self and relationship you only have a handful of facts about... for who she is with, for the way she treats that person or allows that person to treat her, for whether she ticks all the boxes you expect (she says she loved him but she aborted his baby... how could it be love if she doesn't want his child? she says she loves him but won't move in and be a family with him and the 3 year old from his previous marriage... how can she really love him? she says she loves him but won't let him stick it in her pooper, she says she loves him but won't do his dishes when she's around at his house, she says she loves him but won't do whatever, blah de fucking blah) She is found guilty of loving in the wrong way and all hell breaks lose for her, including the modern equivalent of being tied to stocks in the public square and having rotten fruit thrown at her.

If you indulge in using these forms of control over women and how they love you should have a very thorough think not just about women but also about yourself and the role of people like you, before complaining that women's love is performative.

Becoming alienated from one's natural loving self is an inherent danger from having the sense of love and sexuality that has the heaviest narrative focus. Just like enlisting when the nice recruitment officer makes all the right noises at you and ultimately getting a bullet in your fucking head for your troubles is an inherent danger of being part of the gender whose sense of courage and personal effectiveness has a heaviest narrative focus.

2020-06-01T10:44:02+00:00

I used to try to put on a “cool” front when I was in my teenage years.

But, I’m not cool. I’m a Christian, I like Disney movies (I know, Disney adults, right?), I feel uncomfortable in revealing clothes around anyone other than my husband, I’m far from a social butterfly, and I’d choose hanging out with my Mom over a party any day.

I’m not “cool”, not at all. I used to drink Whiskey straight despite hating the taste, pretending to like sports (I don’t mind them, but I’d hardly consider them an interest), I used to dress more “sexy”, but I found when I was true to myself I was just so much happier.

Any woman who behaves in that manner without being true to herself is literally setting herself up for unhappiness and failure. She’ll either keep the facade up forever, forcing herself to be a person she’s not; or she’ll drop the act once in a long term relationship and find it end when her partner realizes she isn’t the person she seemed to be.

762Rifleman · 2020-06-01T12:38:08+00:00

Depends on how long ago the wedding was.

Barely-moral · 2020-05-30T10:56:26+00:00

How is playing into classic female archetypes related to female love being performative?

There are ways to love that don't include playing into classic female archetypes.

Other than that I will openly admit that I am fucking envious about women on this point.

Those archetypes are something I would love to play into and be rewarded for.

But as someone that hates the male archetype I have to play into I also get that playing into an archetype that you don't like is not something enjoyable.

Back to the questions.

How much of female love is a performance?

I don't know and I don't care as long as the performance is good and stable. I have to perform too and I do it well so I expect a return in my investment.

Why do some feel the need to act this way?

Either because their real personality without the performance is unattractive/repulsive or because they believe that to be the case.

How many women fall into this trap of not being themselves?

I don't know and I wouldn't call it a trap but a strategy.

HankTank55 · 2020-05-30T14:02:54+00:00

Then my mid to late 20s, I was that soft, quiet girl trope who loves poetry and has been hurt too much so if you want to date me, you have to prove it by tearing down the great wall of china around my heart.

This is exactly why I don't date older women. They get used by men that aren't me or anything like me and then I get to 'tear down her wall' and all the insecurities she has because of what some fuckboi in the past did to her.

And she even feels proud of this how she is acting like an unlovable bitch to some new guy she doesn't know, just to 'get back' at the chad she fucked 5 years ago that has probably had 20 new girls since.

superincongruent · 2020-05-30T15:35:25+00:00

Your first mistake is to assume that /r/askwomen some how represent women in real life. They do Not. It's a sub of a bunch of virtual signalling liberal women, whose opinions are practically worthless if you want to know about women in general. Reddit already attracts very specific people, but Askwomen is an extreme niche within Reddit.

Title	How much of female love is performative?
Author	burninglytrees
Upvotes	49
Comments	122
Date	May 30, 2020 8:20 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/gtasfr/how_much_of_female_love_is_performative/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-much-of-female-love-is-performative.670657 https://theredarchive.com/post/670657

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