A very important message for this community from COTWA

_pluto_ · 2015-05-15T23:22:04+00:00

For anyone curious about how feminists believe people should have sex, here is a "feminism for bro's" educational video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU8h-zImKfDO1ssJ7ocOuFMw&v=bVHYvUpeqKI

Quite possibly the most awkward "sexual" encounter ever filmed. It's also noteworthy that the female actually commits "sexual assault" at one point when she escalates without the consent of the male.

The are a few possible conclusions to be drawn:

Virtually everyone in the world is a rapist. Or
A lot of feminists have never actually had sex, and don't really understand how it works. And/or
Feminists would laugh at any man who attempted to ensure "affirmative consent" during an actual sexual encounter, but they are pushing these measures due to a combination of misandry, hysteria, and a desperate attempt to maintain relevance and justify their bloated budgets and ridiculous ideology. In short: they simply don't care how many men may be thrown in prison or have their lives ruined.

Meet the new sex police. What ever happened to "Keep the government out of my bedroom"? Feminists are pushing for policies that make the most fundamentalist religious regimes seem positively libertine.

Kingpink2 · 2015-05-15T21:01:24+00:00

Okay except for up-voting what can those do whom are sitting on the other side of the pond do?

By the way upvote this like crazy.

SarcastiCock · 2015-05-15T22:22:43+00:00

I think you have a boatload of respect from this community. All of it earned and well deserved. IMO, the Dear Colleague letter put forth a new (and younger) wave of men's activism. I don't think (most) people truly understand what's going on (or don't care) until they start seeing consequences first hand. Thank you.

Mitschu · 2015-05-16T08:26:14+00:00

Section 213.0(5) defines “sexual contact” expansively, to include any touching of any body part of another person, whether done by the actor or by the person touched. Any kind of contact may qualify; there are no limits on either the body part touched or the manner in which it is touched…

So, If I'm breaking this down correctly, the contact doesn't even have to be sexual in nature or intent, nor even necessarily unwanted contact... just any kind of contact without explicit consent. Worse still, the contact doesn't have to be from the person accused of nonconsensual contact, if the accuser initiates unwanted contact that can be held against the accused.

Essentially, "any touching of any body part [...] may qualify, there are no limits" combined with "whether done by the actor or by the person touched" gives us a situation where a woman can slap you, then claim you sexually assaulted her hand with your face.

Please tell me I'm reading this wrong, because I simply cannot wrap my head around the idea of sexual contact is any touching of another person, even if instigated by the person touched, no matter where or how.

ZimbaZumba · 2015-05-16T01:00:49+00:00

This is the worrying section setting up their argument. Basically "we probably know better than the general public what is good for them". In other words we will give you better social norms.

II. GENERAL COMMENTARY

1 A. INTRODUCTORY NOTE

Article 213 contains the provisions of the Model Code on the controversial subject of the sexual offenses. In identifying the sexual behavior that ought to be proscribed by criminal sanctions, the legislator faces an acute dilemma. On the one hand, it is customary—at least for serious felonies—to reserve the social opprobrium and strong penalties of the criminal law for conduct that is universally condemned as intolerable. By this measure it would be acceptable, perhaps even obligatory, to define the sexual offenses quite narrowly, restricting them to clearly aberrational behavior and declining to attach penal sanctions to conduct that significant segments of our society regard as predictable, harmless, or even valuable in some circumstances. On the other hand, a vitally important function of the criminal law is to identify and seek to deter behaviors that pose unjustifiable risks, even when those risks are not yet universally understood. Because criminal law is the site of the most afflictive sanctions that public authority can bring to bear on individuals, it necessarily must and will reflect prevailing social norms. But for the same reason, it must often be called upon to help shape those norms by communicating effectively the conditions under which commonplace or seemingly innocuous behavior can be unacceptably abusive or dangerous (emphasis mine). Nearly all law-reform efforts addressed to the sexual offenses are met at some point by the objection that they go beyond social standards currently accepted by a good many law20 abiding citizens. That protest was heard in response to the Institute’s 1962 Model Code, and it has been raised on the occasion of most, perhaps all, subsequent state efforts to revise the law of rape. No doubt the same concern will be interposed in response to every other revision effort of this sort. And the concern is not always misplaced. But it must be treated as a matter of degree. Where deeply felt injuries are unappreciated or not uniformly appreciated by the general public, the criminal law may at times properly carry the burden of insuring that appropriate norms of interpersonal behavior are more widely understood and respected (emphasis mine). Due weight must be given to the breadth and depth of existing social expectations, but also to the gravity of the harms to which individuals are exposed and, as always, the difficult art of the possible. The present revision seeks to strike that complex but unavoidable balance.

SKNK_Monk · 2015-05-16T01:16:21+00:00

How exactly is someone supposed to prove they got consent and it wasn't revoked?

aksuVOIMAMIES · 2015-05-15T21:30:33+00:00

American Law Institute should be forced to make a stand. They should be forced to give a public statement on this issue. Give them no quarter to slither their way out of this. The can either:

A) accept what feminist want

B) not accept it, in which case they would have to tell us WHY

Frobenioid · 2015-05-16T13:09:34+00:00

So this is the long march through the institutions. First university policies, then the American Law Institute and next the law of the land.

If this becomes law the number of MGTOW will increase exponentially. What else can you do?

Francois_Rapiste · 2015-05-16T18:45:15+00:00

I've been terrified by the efforts of Senator Gillibrand and others to strip more and more legal rights of men until we have a dystopian degree of inequality even worse than what we have now.

When I'm a PhD cybernetics researcher, author, and everything else I want to be one day, people will listen to me. And mark my words when I say that the feminists will start an absolute gender war within three election cycles from now once they've fully cannibalized the American left, causing the opposing voices to be amplified by the binary nature of American politics.

But what can I do about it right now? We live in a culture that repeatedly benefits women at the expense of men, and then somehow successfully denies this at every possible turn. I feel that I am powerless in the face of that.

Doulich · 2015-05-15T21:48:22+00:00

Tl;dr: Basically the Model Penal Code is made by a bunch of legal experts and state governments often use it as guidance. What some people are trying to do is add in language to the Model Penal Code that, if you don't get explicit permission before every single sexual act you commit with someone, you are guilty of sexual assault, and if you are charged with sexual assault, you have to prove you got consent.

wazzup987 · 2015-05-16T12:45:44+00:00

I am not mgtow but it really seems like this brand of feminism is trying to push that on men

prybarn · 2015-05-16T17:24:09+00:00

So this needs to be on the r/news right?

aesopstortoise · 2015-05-15T21:19:06+00:00

Howabout this post getting stickied, mods?

joewilson-MRA · 2015-05-15T23:14:15+00:00

Just tweeted your story. Keep up the great work you do.

ZimbaZumba · 2015-05-16T00:40:34+00:00

Who and what in the ALI are the driving forces behind this?

bertreapot · 2015-05-16T04:10:17+00:00

Person A’s guilt is absolute because, “feeling romantically and sexually attracted” and feeling “a thrill as their hands touch,” Person A has no defense against the accusation that the touch included the “purpose of sexual gratification… or sexual arousal.” Section 213.0(5).

The "purpose of sexual gratification...or sexual arousal" seems a very odd element to me. Isn't sexual gratification the purpose of romantic relationships? They are criminalizing something very natural, that most people are only interested in doing consensually. I can see criminalizing touching for purposes of "sexual gratification" in a non-sex situation, say, a doctor with a patient, or a stranger on the subway (vs. incidental or accidental contact), but criminalizing the reason behind sex during the act of sex makes no sense.

slideforlife · 2015-05-16T04:45:54+00:00

this is nothing less than an attempt to prearrange human sexuality

wazzup987 · 2015-05-16T12:47:31+00:00

Have the people who write these peices of legislation ever fucking had sex?

ctlawguy · 2015-05-17T23:33:31+00:00

The Model Penal Code is important, as (parts) of it are adopted by states for use in their own criminal law. Thanks for bringing this up.

typhonblue · 2015-05-18T01:57:55+00:00

Peirce, I wanted to ask if you'd be interested in coming on Honey Badger Radio to talk about this issue this coming Thursday?

Dnile1000BC · 2015-05-17T11:38:28+00:00

I'm beyond caring. There is so much information, examples and facts out there about the dangers of feminism. Yet the majority of men chose to ignore it. Continue to support the feminist narrative. Tip-toe around the conversation to avoid offending anyone.

Blind Freddy could have seen this coming.

jpflathead · 2015-05-16T01:21:04+00:00

I saw it and wanted to tweet it and mention it at various forums, but I'd like to know where and how you got the memorandum. I tried googling for by searching for text in it, but couldn't find anything other than COTWA.

Can you provide some links?

I was going to tweet you about this, but @piercecotwa doesn't seem to be a very big twitter user.

aussietoads · 2015-05-17T04:35:47+00:00

Welcome to the United States of Fascism.

therealmasculistman · 2015-05-18T00:04:53+00:00

At the time, a prominent men's rights activist told me that members of this movement won't care about it. (In contrast and to his great credit, Paul Elam jumped on it with me.)

Really,because I remember covering it: http://mensrightsboard.blogspot.com/2011/11/safeguard-rights-of-men-on-college.html

Along with this: http://mensrightsboard.blogspot.com/search?q=dear+colleague&max-results=20&by-date=false

MRSPArchiver · 2015-05-15T20:58:14+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

cypher197 · 2015-05-18T16:54:58+00:00

Sharing this with a lawyer friend of mine.

Title	A very important message for this community from COTWA
Author	PierceHarlan
Upvotes	194
Comments	85
Date	May 15, 2015 8:57 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/363nuw/a_very_important_message_for_this_community_from/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-very-important-message-for-this-community-from.980159 https://theredarchive.com/post/980159

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