Fighting Redpill Rhetoric

ROBYoutube · 2023-11-29T04:03:57+00:00

I've never found red pillers retract their beliefs when you point out how every study done on the subject thinks the opposite.

I'd ask them what the red pill has to say about making women feel safe around them, since that would be a primary concern for a woman up for a one night stand.

I've found they can't answer that and it troubles them that they can't answer it. Not out of any concern for women naturally, just out of concern that their whole insane ideology's inability to address one of the most obvious requirements for a woman to go somewhere alone with you and undress.

Unnecessary-Training · 2023-11-29T11:41:25+00:00

Follow Alexander on twitter as well as his website and his YouTube channel. Also follow Nuance Enjoyer and his website. These two people are literally the only ones doing the actual work needed to debunk redpill and incel claims with actual statistical data. Both of them are amazing. I'd highly recommend them both.

SweelFor- · 2023-11-29T15:36:01+00:00

a current redpiller who believes redpill rhetoric is scientifically accurate?

I would point out that there are 0 red pill psychologists and that redpill is used as a model in 0 therapeutic modalities, and that there are 0 scientific journals based on redpill, and that almost no scientist has even heard of it.

The only people who think RP is a scientific concept, are people who have spent 0 days in scientific circles and in psychology.

2020mademejoinreddit · 2023-11-29T13:54:45+00:00

Turn their logic against them I suppose. It won't work though, because when you're too deep into something, people don't change their minds. Look at politics, religion, gender, etc. etc.

bluemagex2517 · 2023-11-29T13:21:34+00:00

Read the pinned post at the top of the subreddit. u/RedPillDetox did a ton of research to debunk the majority of the red pills claims.

ooa3603 · 2023-11-29T07:31:48+00:00

The Redpill initially started out as a movement to debunk a lot of the inaccurate and overly idealistic ideas about how women behave when it comes to sex and romance.

For a long time and even now, some sections of society and media (romantic movies, idealistic moms, etc) implied that women were inherently less shallow than men and thus chose their sexual partners based on deeper connections. That as long as they were just themselves some women would like them. Obviously that’s only half true but that was the messaging.

Or at least the perceived messaging by many redpill men. One could make the argument that they should have read “between the lines” and not taken such a literal interpretation of platitudes like “just be yourself.” But the problem is that the messaging would hit men when they were young, had low emotional intelligence or poor socialization. In addition, hypermasculinity sets unrealistic standards of behavior too.

So you have a bunch of boys entering puberty with unrealistic expectations of what men and women, are, getting their world absolutely wrecked with their first encounters with women. Women can and do have sex based on shallow pretenses just like men, and no they don’t need you to provide for them like that alone is good enough for romance… and many more world shaking realizations.

The problem is that instead of taking these realizations on board in a healthy way, many bitter redpill members and other misogynistic groups flooded and co-opted the movement with their unrealistic (read misogynistic) ideas about masculinity and made misogynistic conclusions about women. Blaming women for their problems in romance instead of their low emotional intelligence and empathy.

So redpill evolved from a male advice group, into the angry and disingenuous worldview it is today. It’s no longer an ideology based on male self improvement, but rather the premise that men are inherently better than women, they should be able to control them and consequently are entitled to their bodies whenever they please.

Do they explicitly say this in their ideology? Of course not, it wouldn’t be as attractive to most new redpill members if it did. No one wants to see themselves as a bad guy. The problem is that the boys and men it appeals to have gotten so deep into their fear and insecurities when it comes to relationships with women that they don’t want to see reason.

It’s basically a philosophical addiction developed from self medicating deep insecurities with misogynistic sources to prop up low self worth.

The only way to stop any addiction is stop access to the source. They need to stop consuming media that drip feeds the ideology into their brain. Then they need to replace their unrealistic expectations of what men and women are so that they have a more accurate and healthy template of sex and romance between men and women.

Some good resources for men to watch that provide realistic expectations of sex and romance are:

FD Signifier’s video on youtube: https://youtu.be/P7Lzh0XlzIA
Waving the Red Flag channel on YouTube

spiraldinosaur · 2023-11-29T12:34:25+00:00

It's typically a long, drawn out process and not an argument you can win over the internet with "facts". Red pill mentality isn't based on knowledge it's based on feelings. I think the best things you can do would be:

Call in, don't call out. Invite them into conversation about whatever they believe. Show interest, don't start an argument.
But then ask questions, and let them get tied up in their own illogical arguments. They need to find the flaws in their arguments themselves, a "gotcha" isn't going to convince them of anything, but if they start to have questions about it, then it will slowly unravel.
At most, show them examples of red pill ideas falling apart, show them examples of red pill speakers getting taken down, or doing something wrong. Oh look, this red pill guy turned out to be abusive, oh, here's another who's been committing fraud etc. etc. I'm sure there will be plenty of examples if you look around. It's better to show these people for who they really are, rather than trying to prove them wrong.
If you're in a position to do so, actually help undo whatever damage has got them into this place in the first place. Invite them out to socialise, talk with them about other ideas, don't see them as "a red pill" but as a whole person.
Show them the benefits that come with not following that stuff, and the benefits of alternative points of view. For example, comments from women about what they actually want, examples of men embracing their full range of emotions and how that has been beneficial for them, things like that.

Just, whatever you do, keep your cool and don't get into a fight. As soon as you lose your temper, you lose the argument. Nobody changed their mind because someone called them names on the internet.

oldcousingreg · 2023-11-29T22:33:56+00:00

It’s pretty obvious why it doesn’t work and why the “logic” is flawed. There is literally zero scientific basis, just thought-terminating cliches based on a twisted concept from a movie.

tcuis · 2023-12-02T18:33:50+00:00

Cynthia Payne goes thru this in her book called the Red Pill Ideology. She debunks every famous red pill line scientifically. There is literally no red pill "truth" that is based upon scientific reasoning & evidence. One thing that really stood out to me in this book was that men are more likely to leave their partners if their partners suffer from an alternative life changing accident. https://www.amazon.se/-/en/Cynthia-Payne/dp/B0B2TYD6RF

FellasImSorry · 2023-11-29T04:32:09+00:00

It’s not a debate sub.

Raging_Dragon_9999 · 2023-11-30T02:30:18+00:00

??? Why are you mad at me ?

Brilliant_Program_39 · 2023-11-30T14:37:16+00:00

Uffff, I can cite a ton of studies, but I know is a waste of time. Is always the same.

Took, for example, studies that use "self report".

They say "women were happier in the past" (implying that women were happier when they didn't have rights). Then I say "well, studies who that single women are happier than married women". And here it comes: Waaaa but that study is self reported so it doesn't count. Then I explain politely: but mate, every study on happiness is made mostly by self reports.

And then they block me.

Same with studies about sexual partners. "Women with low sexual partners are more...X, but most women are in cock carousel". Plus a study or statistic. And then I say, ehhh, nope most women have low body count. Again: Waaaa but that is self report!! That doesn't count!!. And I: your own statistic/study is made of self reports.

Trying to talk about facts and logic with redpillers is like trying to teach maths to a monkey. Is stupid and a waste of time.

Take into account that their main theory "the sexual market" is not even a scientific theory itself and that the "statistic" that sustain it is self made by Rollo Tomassi.

turtlebandit_ · 2023-12-01T14:36:07+00:00

Thank you everyone for the resources you provided me and the insight so far!

Brilliant_Program_39 · 2023-12-02T13:43:59+00:00

I will leave som resources to you:

The wall. It may be false, because men who say to prefer younger women in reality sleep with women at their same age range. It is a matter of real behaviour vs stated preferences (Jan Antfolk, 2017).

"1 man reproduced for every 17 women". It may be false, because the main theories about it point out that it may be because of patrilocality instead of female selectivity.

"Women value resides in her beauty, men value resides in his income/status". In reality, there is little evidence that men and women exchange beauty for money or status. Both men and women are similar in their attractiveness, Elizabeth Aura McClintock, 2014.

Have fun uwu.

Title	Fighting Redpill Rhetoric
Author	turtlebandit_
Upvotes	28
Comments	103
Date	November 29, 2023 3:35 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/186ftev/fighting_redpill_rhetoric/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/fighting-redpill-rhetoric.1239601 https://theredarchive.com/post/1239601

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