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[–]ThatsWhat__I__SaidFDS Apprentice76 points77 points78 points 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
This hits on something that's been on my mind lately. Every day you read about some new movie star or politician, athlete or famous person who now faces allegations of sexual misconduct. Every. Single. Day.
Now think how many non-famous men could be rightfully accused every day - that you won't read about, or see in the news. Probably hundreds of thousands.
That's because with few exceptions (I hope anyway, they can't all be like this, can they?) every guy, if given the opportunity to get away with something would take it. A kiss, a grope, coersion, workplace assault, date rape, roofie, a blowjob from a subordinate... right down the line to openly obvious rape. There's exploitation everywhere, opportunists just lying in wait.
And that's why there are so many - because (almost - I'm still clinging to that hope)... every guy would do it.
Sorry to my sweet Dad, sorry to my brothers who I know are good men... I'm sorry to my sweet guy that I love so much... but you need to start policing your brethren. You're the only ones that can do it. When you see someone acting out, when you see someone behaving inappropriately, when you see a situation developing that makes you uncomfortable - you need to speak out. Otherwise you're complicit in every act you don't try to stop.
"NoT aLL mEn"? How about ALL men need to fight this together.
[–]yggiwtmiihFDS Newbie36 points37 points38 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Honestly, enough men that every single woman from the time she's maybe 10 (or sometimes even younger) has a story about how men have made them uncomfortable or harmed them in some way.
I was on a camping trip a few years ago, and my friend's new boyfriend (now ex) tried to feel me up under the table, and had the audacity to try and lie his way out of it afterward.
At a new restaurant we were trying, our drinks were way stronger than expected, and a waiter walked up to me when my friends went to the bathroom and rubbed his crotch on my shoulder.
These are instances that I've been physically touched by strangers in every day life, I'm not even including relatives, coworkers, or male "friends." Every single woman --every last one of them-- has similar or worse stories, and even more verbal harrassment stories.
When men shout, "Not all men," they shift the focus to non-issue interactions, instead of focusing on what needs to be corrected. Not all men, but what about the men that ARE the problem?
[–]Milobear27FDS Newbie9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s so sad I know a friend has got a good guy when he doesn’t give me the eyes or try and touch me when she’s not looking..
[–]NovemberinthechairFDS Apprentice4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"...you need to start policing your brethren. "
Perfectly said.
[–]FDSxMuffinVSratFDS Newbie4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The way I think about it - in developing countries, the vast majority of women experience abuse of some kind at the hands of men. Most men without law would abuse - I genuinely believe it's in their nature.
The thing that's different between men and developing countries and where I am - north america - is culture and law. Women are safer in more civilized places.
There are exceptions. Of course. It's just better.
So the way to fix things overall is to keep adapting culture and laws. Make sure there are more consequences for abusers. Support those laws. And always show disgust and distain towards abusive or controling behaviour.
[–]catsuramenFDS Newbie255 points256 points257 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
While Fathers: Yes, all men. Not me though.
[–]Newwavesupport3657FDS Newbie137 points138 points139 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
And it 100% is them too.
[–][deleted] 95 points96 points97 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
One comment was that the worst ones grew up to be the most strict/protective fathers
[–]penelopekittyFDS STRATEGY COACH76 points77 points78 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
When I was in my early 20's I dated a guy who was horrible to me, cheated, lied and even once held me at gunpoint in a drunken rage. He later married and had 3 daughters. He also now has a granddaughter.
Throughout the past 30 years he has continued to periodically contact me. I did speak with him once and asked him how he felt having daughters after how poorly he treated me and any other women. He laughed and said he watched them like a hawk and kept them busy with sports to keep them away from boys.
He's now divorced and engaged to another woman. He still DMs me on various platforms, telling me he loves me. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
They know their behavior is shit, but 99% of the time it never changes.
[–]NovemberinthechairFDS Apprentice6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Damn.
[–]Dont_Settle_for_LessFDS Newbie53 points54 points55 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes! Or the ones with shit friends who treat women like crap. They didn't care when their friends did it to OtHEr women but it's not okay if it's their daughter. Just wow
[–]beautiful-life-aheadFDS Newbie24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My dad...
[–]FiebreFDS Newbie18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Out loud: not me though. Inside: me included.
[–]candigumFDS Newbie18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is my dad being overprotective of who I date. He keeps telling me about girls he dated back in the old days, but when it comes to me and my dating life he'll immediately ask who this guy is
[–]WowWowWowWowWoew0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes
[–][deleted] 222 points223 points224 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Queue the post on the front page recently that asked fathers why they didn’t like their daughters boyfriends. Most of them said they were downright disrespectful to their daughter and her family. Ohhh so now you guys recognize what disrespect is? Where did this awareness come from?
Not only that, they described in detail what the source of disrespect was. Spoiler: similar things that we talk about on this sub. But it comes down to the same thing we preach: THEY KNOW, they just don’t give a damn.
[–]Aw_Hail_NoFDS Apprentice43 points44 points45 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Do you have a link to the post?
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I was trying to look for it 😖 I couldn’t find it. Hopefully it wasn’t deleted. I’ll try again later, I really think it was an excellent example. I rolled my eyes hard after reading all the comments
[–]Hipster-AuroraFDS Newbie10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How many of these men respect their wives, I wonder?
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Hmm considering the faithful ones that don’t cheat on their wives because it’s hard work or they simply can’t 🤔 not very many.
I’m dying, they are downvoting my comment 🤣 the upvotes keep fluctuating. Did you guys not like my comment because it blew your thinly veiled cover 😜✌️
[–]Hajjan2018FDS Newbie1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/hl40qf/dads_with_daughters_out_of_all_of_their/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thanks 💋
[–]soundsandsitesFDS Newbie0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Link?
[–]willowgrowingrootsFDS Disciple152 points153 points154 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
And these men protect their daughters because they see them as valuable possessions.
[–]2340000Ruthless Strategist68 points69 points70 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Possessions, yes..... but, "valuable"🤔
[–]Dont_Settle_for_LessFDS Newbie57 points58 points59 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yes, growing up in a traditional Asian culture. As long as you aren't 'tainted' in some way, you are a good possession
[–]beautiful-life-aheadFDS Newbie19 points20 points21 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yikes, isn't that the truth.
[–]Unlikely-MarzipanRuthless Strategist51 points52 points53 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Where is the lie?
[–]PlumbersArePeopleTooFDS Newbie0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The first line is the lie. They say”not all men” to try and prove that they are different, but they know it’s a lie.
[–]Unlikely-MarzipanRuthless Strategist0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Very true!
[–][deleted] 90 points91 points92 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
My ex who said “not all men are trash” turned out to be the biggest f*ckboy ever and proved that, yes, all men.
[–]meecy166FDS Apprentice44 points45 points46 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Well damn. Same with my ex, and he told me he would prove my father wrong by showing me how good a guy he is, and he proved just the opposite, they are mostly trash and vet the fuck outta them
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My ex seemed to be a HVM with his shit together, modern, open-minded, educated, social etc. I was crazy about him. When he said “oh come on not all men” he wasn’t angry or anything but he still went on to show he wasn’t one of those men who aren’t trash.
[–]beautiful-life-aheadFDS Newbie44 points45 points46 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's always the super defensive ones
[–]Dont_Settle_for_LessFDS Newbie30 points31 points32 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm not even surprised anymore. The ones who get most trigger in feminist posts tend to be the ones with the most misogynistic views
[–]BovvsetteFDS Disciple0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They hate being called out and when their ”nice person” facade comes crashing to ground. If it hurts so much being rightfully called a shit person, just imagine what's it like dealing with such person constantly. It hurts beyond ego, when it turns out so many people around you just want to use and abuse you for their pleasure and comfort in the guise of ”love”, while actually despising you or not giving a shit at all.
[–]SayNadFDS Apprentice37 points38 points39 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The ones who shout "NOT ALL MEN" are the ones most like other men (or worse). 100%.
HVM realizes early on that they are different than most men, so they will agree with the "most men" issues. Because they know very well that most men are selfish entitled pricks with huge ego.
[–]ethnicallyabiguousFDS Newbie10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
T.I. and his daughter anyone?
[–]minty-coralFDS Newbie2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
🤢🤮
[–]Few_DirectionFDS Newbie6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Seriously. No accountability whatsoever.
[–]RedzerBoopFDS Newbie27 points28 points29 points 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
So there are no hvm at all? Then why are we even trying
[–]LordLivreFDS Newbie59 points60 points61 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
In the same way that people can say "all fries are delicious", yet sometimes there can be an occasional and objectively bad fry, people can accurately say "yes all men" and there can still be an occasional and objectively HVM.
Point is that pickmes rank all men as HVM to the beginning and deduct points for behaviour. FDS assumes all men are nuetral or low value and they have to earn their points.
[–]yggiwtmiihFDS Newbie25 points26 points27 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Honestly this makes sense. Average means any dude off the street, the middle, where most people fall.
We're looking for high quality partners here. They're inherently uncommon. If it's a a bell curve, they're probably at the top 20% or so of eligible people to date, so roughly 8 out of 10 men fall below the HVM standard. There are plenty of women who are happy to snatch up any man from that 80% just to not be single, but we're here looking for the people who treat us properly, so it's simply a waiting game for the right person.
(Or, better yet, don't wait around for a person you haven't met yet to make you happy. You already have a very important and wonderful person who takes care of you and puts you first in your life --you.)
[–]Few_DirectionFDS Newbie9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
wow this is a great way of going about it! just going into it being neutral or seeing him as already low value, not placing worth on him before he actually proves it. Being attractive or decent (basic manners, being generally nice) does not count. Men will say this is sexist but then blame us because we didn’t “choose the right one”. If this is what we gotta do to weed out the LVM, then we gotta do it.
[–]raiu86FDS Newbie25 points26 points27 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
There are. I don't even think they are super rare, but it doesn't take very many bad men to completely ruin dating for women. And I get the impression (I've been settled down for 10yrs now) that modern OLD is basically dumpster diving for men... of course you mostly get trash 🙃
[–]RedzerBoopFDS Newbie10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. It feels impossible.
[–]girludontbringhomeFDS Newbie4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I have only had two short relationships that were extremely shitty (in similar ways) and I feel like giving up on dating. Mostly because I did a lot of self-reflection and self-improvement after the first relationship, vetted throughly, but then the second guy still ended up being trash. Whereas my friends who are engaged/married to HVM, were the biggest pickmeishas/did not follow FDS rules and found their husband in their first relationships. I am happy it worked out for them and they were not taken advantage of, but I really believe our behavior makes little difference. If we come across HVMs that are in love with us, even if we are pickmeishas they will love us regardless. You just don’t want to be a pickmeisha and want to follow FDS rules (like waiting a considerable amount of time to have sex) so that if we are with a LVM we hopefully do not give up too much emotionally to him. I will say after my first relationship, I thought he was just a fluke and the second one would be better, but then the second one sucked too and now I really feel I won’t find a HVM and my next relationship will be even worse. :(
Edit: Not sure why I’m being downvoted, to clarify I totally agree with FDS and believe every woman should put it into practice.
[–]420snailmodeFDS Newbie17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
thats what i’m sayin. Like imo it’s either hvm or nothin’
[–]RedzerBoopFDS Newbie11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It feels like there ARE NO HVM
[–]ThatsWhat__I__SaidFDS Apprentice8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
I have to believe. Right? God I hope. My current boyfriend of 14 years (we have no desire to marry, both being older and good careers) is a feminist, educated and outspoken. A complete gentleman, never crosses a line when we disagree.
I did a background check on him - clean. I have work friends who are mutual friends of 2 of his exes - nothing untoward. But I still... sigh... I wonder.
[–]RedzerBoopFDS Newbie5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Where'd you find him? Not online I bet !
[–]ThatsWhat__I__SaidFDS Apprentice1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I met him at the grocery store - I asked him to hand me a loaf of frozen garlic bread from across the aisle, and when I tried to take it from him, he didn't let go. We just sort of looked at each other and laughed. Then I saw him again in a different aisle and he gave me his business card. After a week or so I called him, and we've been going out since then. That was 14 years ago.
[–]RedzerBoopFDS Newbie0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nice to know it happens x
[–]NineCocaines0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm in almost exactly the same situation. We've just been together for 6 years. But the other stuff is pretty much on the nose (although I'm more opinionated). I think what works for me is that I'm always on high alert for bullshit. Because men ARE trash.
[–]Hipster-AuroraFDS Newbie5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My dad may have some chauvinistic opinions but thank God he was never like this. Even if I had wanted to date in HS I think he knew I was smart enough to make my own decisions.
Unfortunately my best friend's husband acts like this with their five year old. A kindergartner!!! He himself has a long history of flings and cheating so he's a quite the hypocrite. I don't say much because it's not my business but it's obvious the girl only pretends to care about boys because her dad overreacts to it and she thinks it's amusing.
Growing up my mom loved shows like Law & Order, First 48, etc. And they'd both point out how realistic/easily fallen into some of those crime situations were
[–]LCM75360FDS Newbie1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Mothers of sons:: please please please please please don't be like those men. I'm trying to raise my son right. He and I are very close and talk a lot. I've told him about things that have happened to me and how it's effected me and how it made me feel. I'm teaching him respect and boundaries and empathy and hoping like hell he's better to women than some men have been to me.
[–]throwaway9364501 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most fathers I've met are EXACTLY like this.
[–]StormyLFDS Newbie1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My dad straight up told me if a man ever treats me how he treats women, I need to get away. Theyll acknowledge their behavior, but only when it's to keep their own daughter from getting hurt.
[–]CaptainBigglesRFC1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Parents also warn children not to get in any strangers car, even though statistically it would be safe to. Children dont understand nuance or have the critical thinking ability and life experience to make accurate judgment calls. Most parents prepare them for the worst case scenario.
[–]RoseDragon121 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I was talking to my Dad and uncle the other day about why I dislike Trump and one of the points was how he just isnt a good human being. My first point being how he said you could just grab women by their pussies and they'll do anything you want.
They actually said it was locker room talk and all men do that. I genuinely wanted to throw-up.
[–]whitedumplingFDS Newbie1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oof, that hit different and a little too close
[–]TeaMan0011 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've always been in the camp of most men, it's about wading through the bad guys and looking for a good one
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