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[–]juanqunt39 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This is just dumb... it's market supply and demand. If the market research says that people will buy more games with female characters, then they will make games with more female characters. Why aren't laundry detergent commercials targeted to men? And we are actually seeing more games nowadays with female characters because more girls are now playing video games and personally the gender of the character does not matter to me at all as long as the gameplay is good. And when a game with a female lead like Tomb Raider came out, inadequate feeling feminists still blamed the game for making her look too good because "real women are beautiful with their imperfections and love handles". Bitch please, most male video game characters are juiced up with shredded abs, not like the typical real life male either. You play games to escape to a fantasy world.
[–]capitalisms15 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Why aren't laundry detergent commercials targeted to men?
Come on, you know the answer to that one. It's the same reason why anything is anything: misogyny!
[–]yourpants13 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I find it amazing that people want physically unfit characters to perform physically challenging feats like effortlessly scaling walls, executing skillful combat, and otherwise being able to do things most inactive people couldn't. It's like they want realism to be unrealistic. It's really no wonder the video game industry doesn't take their demands seriously.
[–]caveman13371 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Fable did it pretty well. Fable 2 even had both genders. You could be anything from a skinny, gay, tattooed man that killed every woman they saw to an obese, sex-hungry, woman that dressed as a chicken and farted in crowds.
[–][deleted]-6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I've seen some pretty fat dudes do alright at ToughMudder. So clearly it is possible, in short intervals.
[–]yourpants8 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Too bad action/adventure games have the character moving about with high energy for extended periods of time and hardly any rest.
[–][deleted]11 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Let's be honest, no human could run across Chernarus over and over living on just tactical bacon.
I don't really have a point, characters in all video games are unrealistic. I will say, though, that a game like Firefall has the rugged looking male character who is well clothed but the scantily clad female character, and it's totally out of place for what the game is supposed to be about. I don't really remember a game where men walk around almost naked but they're supposed to be some kind of super soldier who can mine and kill aliens in nothing but a banana hammock.
[–][deleted]3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Sex sells.
I know I like to see scantily clad women.
[–]Whatsinmytummy1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Let's be honest, no human could run across Chernarus over and over living on just tactical bacon
True. BUT, if they could - would they realistically look more like the average tumblr feminist or the average video game character?
[–]Professor_Hoover1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
God of War has an almost naked male character.
[–][deleted]-4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Here's a video that talks about Firefall specifically: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJfSiREgs3s
When I saw the female engineer my jaw dropped. It was so totally out of place and completely broke the game that I just couldn't get over it.
[–]juanqunt6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Never heard of this game before, but come on... her leg is showing, that's it. How is that different from the dude showing his biceps? In men, arms are more sexualized, while in women, legs are more sexualized. A guy walking on the street showing jacked guns will have more people staring than a girl in short shorts. The problem is that men aren't as free as women to express their sexuality in public due to our culture. And that to be a sexy woman, you just have to be not fat, but to be a sexy man, you'd have to work out very seriously for years.
[–]Kelmian4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Woolite by rob zombie.
Well, close as I could get.
[–]phatphace3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
it's market supply and demand. If the market research says that people will buy more games with female characters, then they will make games with more female characters.
Just like there's no problem with this ad as long as market research states it will generate the greatest number of people being screened.
[–]juanqunt3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm not sure how successful this ad is. I guess it's targeted to nagging wives who want their husbands to get a hearing inspection. It's a bit bad taste, but also it's tongue in cheek and not too serious. Also, on the upside, if the man turns out to have hearing issues, he can just say that he didn't hear anything his wife said. The issue of men tending to not care as much as women about medical checkups is a bit different from buying a product purely for entertainment.
[–]Arakin3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Holla back. I say this about Hollywood films too, yet people don't believe me.
[–]Gittiup34 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Is she still pretending she's into video games ?
[–]JesusSaidSo20 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Just a reminder for everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcPIu3sDkEw
[–]pillburt7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
She admits that she doesn't "want to go around shooting people or ripping off their heads... it's just gross..."
And you wonder why these games aren't targeted for her...
I don't read 50 Shades of grey, should I complain that it doesn't have enough pictures for men?
[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Men have a need to carry a bag as much as anyone else, but bags are not made for men because we just deal and don't worry about it. We don't demand (with out spending) that we want hand bags for men made.. so they are not made much. But they are made for women more.. because women buy them!!!
All she is doing is bitching about free market.
[–]Poperiarchy15 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Men should complain about any game with a female-only lead. Maybe even threaten boycotts against female-character-led games and refuse to give these developers any of our money?
Not being able to make my choice of a male or female hero is sexist, right? It's sexism, and feminists want more men in gaming to recognize and attack sexism.
When an argument is this simple to destroy it deserves to be mocked.
[–]Crushgaunt1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I think the core argument being presented here/in situations like this is the unbalanced lack of female leads. Put most games up on a dart board and throw a dart at it. You'd have to try not to hit a game with a male lead.
[–]xNOM24 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Put most games up on a dart board and throw a dart at it. You'd have to try not to hit a game with a male lead.
Yeah well throw a dart into a LAN party and you'd have to try hard not to hit a person with a penis. Imagine that.
[–]Crushgaunt-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah, but if I walk across my college campus with my 3DS on I'll streetpass an almost equal number of men and women on any given day. Choosing your style of game to make a point doesn't really help matters when you use a setup that favors your outcome.
Besides, which is the chicken there and which is the egg?
[–]Arakin12 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It doesn't matter which is the chicken and the egg. One of the first pioneers of computer gaming was Roberta Williams of Sierra games, responsible for King's Quest and Hero's Quest. King's Quest didn't have a female lead until I think number 7? And she was their lead designer.
You think someone has been keeping women out of video game design? Or maybe less women get into video game design (which I doubt is debatable) or maybe women want to play different styles of games. I'm sure any real gamer could go through a list of games quite easily that appeal to women more than men.
[–]UtahStateAgnostics2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Kings Quest 4: The perils of Rosella - Female Lead
[–]Arakin1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
There we go. I couldn't remember which one was first, I just remember the one that used cartoon graphics and I believe it was 7.
[–]Crushgaunt-5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Most of the gamers I know go for action/adventure/RPGs with a side of shooter, male and female.
[–]Arakin5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You just listed every genre of game basically with the exception of puzzle...
I know VERY FEW, if any, girls who headset CoD or throw lans to play FPS or play any FPS what so ever. That's why people wig out on mic when they hear a chick in an FPS and why people make that joke.
[–]Brownhog0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Most chicks don't use mics because this happens. Two gaming ex-girlfriends, both of them told me this.
[–]Crushgaunt-3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Of the girls I know who play FPS, most refuse to headset because of the joke. Others game when they can because they don't have access to their own console because it was so strongly frowned upon up until they were "out on their own" or at least as out on your own as you can be being a full time college student (discounting nontraditional students).
[–]Arakin6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Girls get frowned for owning a console by who exactly? Gamer guys love that shit. The only people who frown on chicks w/consoles are people who frown on ANYONE w/consoles. And the reason chicks don't use headsets is because the FPS community is like 90% or more male. It's not because men somehow drove women off the mic.
[–]Crushgaunt-7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
A lot of times it's the pervasive social stigma, much like when I preface a good book that has a strong romantic sub-plot with "yeah, there's a strong romance novel vibe but if you can get past that it's good" when discussing it with my male friends: I've been told implicitly that those aren't the things I should enjoy, that that those who do like it are "odd" in some way.
Gamer guys love that shit
Which leads some to fear they'll be somewhat fetishized for being a gamer girl (by which I mean some guys will use that as a defining feature by which to refer to them, often in a way that trumps actual personality traits).
It's not because men somehow drove women off the mic.
Not necessarily trying to say they did so much as they're afraid to breach the waters.
[–]kursdragon5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
STOP SAYING OF WHICH YOU KNOW! My god that is so annoying, this is in terms of every single gamer around, NOT THE ONES U KNOW! Just ceuse u happen to know 2 girls who play COD DOESNT MEAN THAT ALL GIRLS PLAY COD! God I know i sound like a rager but like 4 of your comments say "Of the ... I know". One girl I know likes to skydive naked while jerking off with a cactus. THAT DOESN'T MEANT ALL OF THEM DO.
[–]Brownhog1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Preach, brother.
^^<sup>Nice</sup> ^^<sup>touch</sup> ^^<sup>with</sup> ^^<sup>the</sup> ^^<sup>cactus.</sup>
[–]Crushgaunt-1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm referencing personal experience because that's where I draw my examples from. I'm not going to give false data because you don't like my sources.
I'm not arguing that all girls play CoD, that would be as stupid as saying that all guys play CoD. I'm just saying that from what I've seen (again, if I'm not pulling from my personal experience when discussing my personal experience, I don't know what you want) female gamers are not uncommon, nor have a seen a significant difference in approximate percentages of gamers who prefer CoD.
[–]spankytheham2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
They might not be uncommon, but in games like COD, they are the minority. That's why those types of games are not targeted to females much. I don't really know many females interested in martial arts, blowing shit up, guns etc. That's what most of the popular huge games entail.
Mass Effect games were hugely successful and had massive amount of people playing. You could make your main character female/male. The female Shephard had better voice acting, armors and romance options. Yet when Bio character creation polls came out it was 20% made fem leads & 80% male (can't remember exact nrs now, it's been a while). Players were given the option of an awesome female lead - and they didn't want her much.
[–]capitalisms4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
War, fighting, crime, sports, racing, politics, and technology are dominated by men. Until people start wanting to play games about watching reality TV and bitching about your coworkers, the stories will continue to revolve around men.
[–]Crushgaunt-6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women are just as interested in playing games about war, fighting, crime, sports, racing, politics, and technology, as it happens, though some of them are put off by finding little to no relatable characters.
[–]Arakin11 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No. Not really. And just look at how many male gamers use female avatars in games like WoW or EQ. Look how many male gamers play Tomb Raider and action games with female leads. Go compare how many female gamers have an Xbox to a Wii. Who do you think buys Animal Crossing and shit? I dated a female gamer for years, and I know TONS of them. They're far less interested in Farcry and GTA and Quake or Doom or CoD, and it's not for the lack of female fucking avatars.
[–]Crushgaunt0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Maybe it's because I'm relying almost purely on personal experience, although I suspect we all are, for the most part, but I from what I've seen the use of female avatars is a novelty after "the main playthrough" and out of the female gamers I know, only one of them goes out of her way to play more "feminine" games and she openly acknowledges supporting traditional gender roles while the rest cite a social stigma for not getting into gaming before they did.
[–]Arakin2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Your personal experience shows you girls playing Quake, Doom, CoD, Battlefield, etc.? The majority of female gamers you know play Counterstrike and Grand Theft Auto and shit? I'm not saying NO female gamers play these games, but just log in and play. The majority are guys. And it's not because you can't play as a female fucking marine in CoD. I could give a fuck what my avatar looks like in CoD, and as a matter of fact, back in Quake3 and in Quake3, tons of guys used the female avatars.
In Everquest and WoW I know TONS of guys who play as female characters, and the girls who play, don't always use female avatars, and the PVP servers are usually dominated by men. I know TONS of guys online who will choose a female character in an RPG game over a male, either cause they like a nicely designed ass to look at, or because it's just more appealing to them for some other reason. I've had plenty of female characters myself, but I've absolutely never run into a female gamer, of which I know many, who won't play a game for the lack of female characters. I actually know less female gamers who play games like Tomb Raider than I know men.
Just bought Tomb Raider on the Steam sale and it's amazing. Really couldn't careless if the lead was male or female. Good action and engaging story is enough for me. Crushgaunt's personal experiences are irrelevant. Developers only care about the opinions of whoever buy their games. Sure there are some girls who love stereotypical guy games, but then their game tastes are also similar to that of typical guys they hang out with and they are included in the target audience. Doubt female GTA players want to make the game feel more like the Sims or care for a female lead. (You can actually play as female or even a giraffe if you want with mods though)
My personal experience shows girls playing CoD and Halo with no one playing Quake or Doom since the early days and very little Battlefield, no one I know plays Counterstrike with GTA being a rarity. But I know girls who fangirl over the Assassin's Creed series just as bad as most of the guys I know, if not occasionally worse; I loaned out my copy of Skyrim for nearly 3 months because a female friend was into it and she currently has my Mass Effect series, my Fable series, Red Dead Redemption, and nearly every other game I'm not currently playing, all in an attempt to essentially make up for lost time. The only EQ player I know is a girl and she's been playing so long they've grandfathered her subscription into affiliated games, I know one person who plays WoW and he's a guy.
The underlying point is that as guys when the needle swings from the default male model we usually have the option as to the gender of our avatar whereas generally with female avatars it is either "you get to choose" or... maybe eventually the protagonist will be female.
The idea isn't that women don't want to play these games because of the lack of a female lead so much as they are less inclined to play them, consciously or not, because of the lack of relatability.
I disagree with the point that men have the option. We don't really have an option either, it just happens that more games have male avatars. But this is only really true of action games. Almost every RPG has female version of the characters. Games like Cod, Battlefield and CS don't make sense having female avatars, as there have never been really any women on the battlefront. I don't see many girls wanting to play CoD or Battlefield, and I don't see them being swayed over with a female version of the marines, especially considering these are first person games.
RPGs/Adventure games have female options, as do the more kids/cutesy games that you'd associate with Nintendo more often than not. The only real games that don't have female options are the obvious mainstream "guy games," which are marketed to sort of your average douchebag gamer.
The CoD/Battlefield/GTA/Assassins Creed/Watchdog games are the Michael Bay of video games. They're not that great, and they're marketed to teenage boys and young 20s. Intelligent gamers know that these games aren't that great, but many of us will play them. The rest of the video game market is saturated with games for everybody. Nintendo has a billion games you can play as a girl. The MMO and RPG market almost always has a female avatar to play with. There are games like Tomb Raider and that weird one with the girl with like guns in her heels and shit. There are games you can play as animals, puzzle games, games like the Sims, Roller Coaster Tycoon, Minecraft, Animal Crossing, Katamari. There's racing games, there's simulation games, there's games like Black and White.....the list goes on. Most girls I know don't even play Tomb Raider...it's mostly a guy game.
What I'm saying is this idea that there's no options for female gamers is bogus. It basically comes down to some first person shooters, and the GTA clones that don't have female characters, but it just so happens that those games are the biggest sellers, so those are the ones that are focused on by critics.
[–]juanqunt2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Actually in the so-called GTA clone Saint's Row series, you can make your character as anything, even a fat girl. But I doubt fat feminists enjoy Saint's Row. In fact, I'm pretty sure they'd bash the game because you can also make your character into a fitness model male, go naked, and that the game is "too crude and violent". You will always find hypocrites who bash things for the weirdest reasons.
[–]spankytheham1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
that weird one with the girl with like guns in her heels and shit.
Bayonetta you uncultured swine
I don't necessarily disagree with that.
Allow me to phrase the first portion differently, if I may: If you want to play as a male character, you have more options.
To the final bit: I would like to agree but I keep thinking of the games with set characters such as the Drake games, GoW, MGS, etc. and how we end up with stories of manly men doing awesome things whereas we have all of... Tomb Raider for female protagonists. I still see a divide, now whether we choose to call that a problem or not is a different story.
I guess maybe you have more options as a male, but only in certain genres, specifically the FPS (where I think it doesn't matter as you're in FIRST PERSON VIEW the entire game unless you die) and the games like Uncharted, GTA, GoW, MGS as you said.
The reason we have those games, is that the majority of game developers are men, and there hasn't ever been a precedent of female gamer market (which is smaller than the male gamer market as a whole) buying up games like Tomb Raider. I don't know any girl gamers who are 'fans' of Tomb Raider, but I know tons of boys who have every one of the games.
It's also not feasible to make Uncharted style games with a male/female story line, as you'd have to essentially make two games. There are however supporting female characters in many/most of these games. Just because you can't play as them doesn't mean there aren't women being represented. I forget which Uncharted it was, or was it all of them, where the sidekick is a chick along with the old dude. It's been a while since I played.
Also, games like Bioshock infinite, while having a male lead, feature female characters, one who essentially helps drive the narrative along, and without whom, you wouldn't be able to succeed. You could just as easily create a Tomb Raider style game, with a female lead and protagonist who drives the story, but add a male supporting character who is necessary to succeed and beat the game, and feminist game critics would be screaming, 'oh sure, we get a female protagonist but OF COURSE there has to be a man there, without whom, the girl couldn't succeed.' There's always going to be something for someone to bitch about, but the point is this:
Men make stuff for men. Women make stuff for women. AS A GENERALIZATION. Most male writers write shit about/for men, and vice versa. It's what's most familiar, and most people want to make shit THEY THEMSELVES will enjoy. If women want more games like MGS and Assassins Creed for women, then more women should get into the gaming industry. If there's a market for it, then people would make the game. You're telling me a ripoff artist company like Ubisoft wouldn't make a game targeted to women if the market was there?
It's been proven that idiot male gamers will buy CoD clones, GTA and its clones, and Assassins Creed and its clones. So that's what people make. It's been proven that girls will buy RPGs, so there are female models in them. It's been proven that girls will play all sorts of other games, so gaming companies market their shit to them.
The only reason we 'see a divide' is because those games that don't represent women the most are the most popular currently. That doesn't mean there aren't games for girls, it just means those games aren't CoD and Battlefield and Metal Gear and shit -- for the most part. Which I see as absolutely no problem what so ever.
I can largely agree with that. I only dispute the idea that there are "games for girls"; I think we see this because it is perpetuated, rather than because it is a gender difference. That is to say, it's a difference in the gender role rather than in a gender preference. I largely say this because I've seen gratuitous interest in some of those games by women but YMMV and all that.
You don't think there are games designed and targeted to girls? What about games like Animal Crossing and those other weird games for the 3Ds? And if there is a lack of games marketed to girls, that shows the state of the market place. If there was a large demand for games that girls want, there would be people making them.
Again, from personal experience: games like Animal Crossing have Nintendo Appeal; that is to say they appeal across the board and mostly across gender, as to the other games, I can only guess but most have the same Nintendo Appeal.
Pure conjecture, but I think the "lack of games marketed to girls" falls into the category of diminishing returns; they're not getting boycotted/actively loosing sales now and any change would be risky and risky is something the gaming market can't really do now with any safety.
I think the Nintendo appeal is primarily younger males and females. You won't find as many CoD gamers (let's just use that term for the typical guy who plays Halo/CoD/BF/MGS/Assasins Creed/GTA etc) playing Mario Kart and Zelda and Mario etc. Most male gamers I know who own Wiis are in their late 20s and 30s because they grew up with Nintendo. The gamer guys I know who got into gaming later in life primarily play Xbox/Playstation and couldn't operate a computer game to save their own lives.
I think the lack of games marketed to girls comes from the fact that male gamers out number female gamers, and the dumber games make fuck tons of money nowadays. That's why a game like Watchdogs, which is absolute pandering half-assed shit, will come out and sell a lot of copies.
The great thing about gaming nowadays though is the indie gaming market. Games like Minecraft, Limbo, Super Meatboy, Hyperlight Drifter (Hopefully), Journey etc. give people a chance to express themselves in other ways and still generate revenue. I still don't see a lot of indie games coming out from female devs and marketed to females. I just don't see it. If there was a larger market for the female game, there would be more of them. It's the same reason there aren't romance novels targeted to men like there are women.
I think you may underestimate the number of Nintendo Gamers as compared to CoD gamers though I'm not certain we'd be able to get the numbers to prove that either way, and again, I may just be biased from my own samplings. I think there is room to say that certain games are marketed towards certain demographics but the gender role, with all the social implications it caries, is the constraint rather than the gender itself.
I will also say the number of female oriented groups admonishing the gaming industry for not treating women the same as men in terms of customer potential seems to point to women wanting to be represented; often "the market" can't see what's best without people telling it.
[–]juanqunt1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
"Gone Home" is a bunch of politically correct feminist BS and Game of the Year last year according to many people. Metacritic score is amazing, but the negative reviews from actual Steam users are overwhelming. Critics like to be a bit politically correct or just give good reviews to big money companies, but actual players are more honest.
I'm a fan of indie games, but I think most indie game players are really the just more eccentric males who appreciate less mainstream experience. AFAIK, most people on Binding of Isaac and FTL subforums are male.
Overall, girls love their phone games like flappy bird, Angry Birds, and Fruit Ninja. Not many girls get into the more hardcore types of games. Mainstream games are actually slowly appealing to more and more girls, since girls also appreciate the big blockbuster action movies, i.e Harry Potter.
Sims and various mobile games have a majority of female players. Females tend to prefer a casual experience, while males tend to prefer a more acton packed and competitive experience. Of course, this is just generalizations based on the data, there are individuals who are exceptions.
[–]capitalisms1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
We want to watch someone rise to the challenge, not break into tears and ask the nearest male to save them. The sort of characters that women can relate to just don't make good protagonists.
[–]warspite881 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
maybe if more women chose to make games with other women's interests in mind then money could be made and female gamers happier?
men are choosing to make games and their games reflect their ideas, choices, interests, etc etc
its a free market, if women want a certain kind of game or character then they are free to make it.
feminism is trying to tell us that men are bad guys or oppressors of women in gaming that men discriminate against women in the games they make and play etc etc. feminists are trying to tell men how to make their games...well i for one am glad men are flipping feminists the finger and telling them to buzz off and go make their own games for women if they want too. "free market this, jerk!" is what men are telling feminists
feminists just keep digging themselves a hole.
I'll agree that with Feminism as the mouthpiece for female gamers very little constructive will occur, but there does appear to be enough interest that women are moving into the field.
I don't disagree with the idea that feminism running rampant in the free market is a horrible idea, I disagree with the idea that the women as a whole don't like most games/genres of games.
That's only true if you limit your definition of games to console shooters. If you were to include the games distributed by Big Fish Games, you'd suddenly find yourself having pretty even odds. Almost all BFG games tht have a lead character have female leads.
The existence of these games is utterly ignore by professional victims like Sarkeesian because they don't fit into her narrative at all. That's why she always dishonestly acts as if console gaming is the only form of video gaming; ignoring that most women who play video games are casual PC gamers.
I admit, I knew nothing of the existence of BFG and personally (keep in mind, the following in an opinion) have trouble lumping games like the kind I saw on a (very) brief scan of the website with other games and see them as more akin to pre-loaded games like solitaire, Mahjong, or pinball.
Sure, and I can understand that.
But here's the thing: When femitwits like Sarkeesian claim that 47% of gamers are women, they are counting games like BFG -- as well as solitaire, Mahjong, and pinball. Also AngryBirds, FarmVille, Words With Friends, etc. You have to include those kinds of games to reach those totals.
What Sarkeesian and her ilk do is a bait and switch. They say that 47% of gamers are women by counting all kinds of video games, but then when they analyze the game market they exclude these kinds of games and only look at big console titles. It's deeply dishonest and misleading.
[–]Prefer_Not_To_Say2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That's not the case; the lack of female characters has been severely exaggerated by feminist critics of gaming.
It may have been exaggerated, I can't dispute that, but from the perspective of a longtime gamer, I just don't see more than a handful of games with female leads.
[–]Poperiarchy1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That does not change the fact that the core argument is hypocrisy with a vagina.
I can't believe how many people are downvoting you. You're pretty much the only comment I've seen that's not "YEAH she's a dumbhead! Nice argument barnsmell!"
Straight up, there is almost no female leads in video games (in comparison to the number of male leads). This is not an opinion, fellas!
[–]nigglereddit3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
There are hardly any male leads in romance novels. Are you campaigning to change that or even complaining about it? You aren't are you?
Slow your roll, playa. What I said was accurate; female leads are a small minority. I didn't say I wanted to change anything. He was describing "the presented argument" and people were downvoting him earlier.
I just took a short stroll over to my PS3 and took a quick look at the game boxes piled up next to it. Out of the twelve games I've been playing recently, only two of them have exclusively male protagonists. Only two of them have exclusively female protagonists too. The rest feature either a mix of both or a choice of a male or female character.
Now, I'm not saying "ha-ha! You see!? This is proof that men and women are equal in games!!!" There is a disparity. However, to say the disparity is anywhere near as severe as is made out by people like Sarkeesian is ridiculous and demonstrably false.
Yeah. She's full of shit, but I was just saying there's a disparity like you said. May have exaggerated a little but you get it.
[–]giegerwasright1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Fuck that. Portal is too good.
[–]Supercrushhh-8 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
By your logic, you should boycott any game that doesn't allow you to choose the sex of your lead character.
[–]Poperiarchy13 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
By feminist logic, sir.
I didn't make the claim that a game with a single-gender playable character was sexist- they did. I am simply encouraging that men do as feminists ask of us-- and punish sexism when we see it.
But only sexism that presents itself with a gender that is not mine. Until feminists boycott Lara Croft we will have to step up and do it for them. In the name of equality.
[–]Supercrushhh-10 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No. By your logic.
You said:
Not being able to make the choice of a male or female hero is sexist, right?
This would include games that have a male-only lead. Unless your agenda is petty revenge, in which case you should boycott games that have female-only leads, even though there are hundreds of games with male-only leads... Yeah, I'm failing to see your point here.
Good luck with getting people on board for that.
[–]Pecanpig9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
He was mocking the Feminist argument.
[–]Arakin9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Are you dense as concrete or wood? It's not HIS argument, you fucking idiot. He's making fun of someone ELSE'S argument. Good God.
[–]TkilledJ-5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Let's try and not derail conversation with insults, it gets us nowhere.
Edit: really downvoted to negative? C'mon, I'm just saying lets not refer to straw-man tactics like most lunatic feminists would... That would make us no better than those radical fems we seek to correct.
Derail? Have you seen what is happening in this 'conversation?'
[–]Supercrushhh-6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Lmfao. Yeah, and I'm making fun of his ridiculous argument.
[–]Arakin7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Woosh.
[–]doctorpwn7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Look, he's using feminist logic with reversed genders. It's not his argument, it's someone else's.
[–]Supercrushhh-7 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No, he's using delusional, feminist-victim language. If male-leads were rare in video games it would make sense. They're not. That's why his joke is ridiculous and doesn't even make any damn sense.
[–]doctorpwn6 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Okay, I see what you're saying. I think though that most people, myself included, didn't understand what you meant, and you came across as pretty dumb, no offense.
However I do disagree with you - Video games still have a primarily male audience (talking about games for consoles and PCs, not flash games and mobile apps). More importantly, though, the workforce that makes games is predominantly male. And asking for accurate representation of women in video games which are made mainly for men and more importantly mainly by men is unfair - accurately producing the female perspective is obviously much more difficult for men.
If women feel like they are being unfairly represented in video games and that the userbase of female gamers has potential to grow if the representation of women in games grows first, then feminists should change their focus to encouraging women to become game developers, rather than trying to make the currently majority male game developers try to make games from a female perspective that is naturally more difficult and fiscally often not worth it.
[–]Supercrushhh-2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Hey, thank you! I really appreciate your response. You're right - maybe once more women are developing games, we'll see more lead female characters. Although considering all the other immense tasks game developers have to take upon themselves and do so well, I don't think it would be that difficult to synthesize a woman's perspective.
No, he's using delusional, feminist-victim language.
Their language. Their argument, exactly.
So you agree the feminist cries about being victimized because Ubisoft didn't give players a chose between a male and female assassin are delusional?
Well, it seems that MRAs and AMRs can at least agree on that.
[–]Supercrushhh1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No, you insipid twat. It's not about being a victim, it'd about under-representation of women in video games. Since men are not under-represented the reverse argument makes no fucking sense. But you can't seem to grasp that simple concept.
[–]theDarkAngle12 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Games are judged by whether they are fun or not. No one gives a crap how many male vs female leads there are except non-gamers like Anita.
And before the PC police that seem to be infiltrating this subreddit try to argue the point, let me just pre-empt: no, it isn't the case that more girls would play if there were more female leads, and no one in their right minds believes that bullshit. If it were even a remotely credible hypothesis, the gaming companies would be all over it.
Man - atheism, gaming, the tech world - I really wish the feminists would just quit with all their entitled attempts at re-arranging communities as soon as they enter. One foot in the door and it's a fucking five-alarm misogyny fire every goddamn time.
[–]Brownhog4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yup, that last paragraph is bang on. Just grinds my gears so hard! It's stuff like this that makes me so wary about feminists.
[–]ALTSuzzxingcoh2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Ever seen "The Atheist Experience", by the way? Atheism+ has ruined them.
[–][deleted]9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This basically sums up why I hate Anita Sarkeesian. What a hypocritical and selfish coont she is.
Coont! I'm stealin' that one!
[–]Prefer_Not_To_Say9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Haven't watched Anita's latest video but I know one of her arguments is that bodies disappearing after enemies are killed is evidence of female disposability. This is a genuine quote: "Their status as disposable objects is reinforced by the fact that in most games discarded bodies will simply vanish into thin air a short time after being killed."
Now, even if you don't play video games, you'll probably know why this is ridiculous. To give the extremely simplified version, the more stuff there is on screen in a game reduces performance and this can end up slowing the game down. So bodies disappear to increase how smoothly the game runs.
And obviously, this affects both male and female bodies.
[–]Zero13434 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
i didn't realize that there was a new video in the series out, just watched it and this one is really bad, pretty much all of the arguments in this video could be applied to men in the same games. including things like the ability to kill women in games such as GTA or Hitman as violence against women.
[–]ExpendableOne5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
kill a million men in... pretty much every video game ever. Not misandry. Kill a few women in a few video games? MISOGYNY!!
[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
ALso, it mostly affects male bodies. There just aren't that many female thugs/lackies in video games (media in general). When you have to fight them, they are usually bosses.
[–]Cross_of_Coronado4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I actually kinda like the videos of anita sarkeesian, because I like it when people analyze video games. But in her newest video is quite full of .. weeeell.... let's call it "inaccuracies". Also she does not upright tell me that I'm an asshole because I am male. At least that.
Well...watch the video about her not playing video games. She's a scammer buddy and you should probably hate her face. What she has to say is actually not bad once in a blue moon, though.
[–]Cross_of_Coronado1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't know. I cant bring myself to hate here, because after all in the videos I've seen she seems to be kinda rational and wants to point out thing that she does not like. Why not? Video Games wont change because of that, because its MEN who buy them. And if you put Bullshit in a game, I'm not gonna buy it. So here it is business and business beats feminism. I have SOOO many other feminists that I really, rally can't stand for all the bullshit they pull.
And after all, she's just using feminists and drawing resources from them to put them into videos about video games. Really can't hate her.
[–]unklestinky2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I actually think that the content of what she says is interesting for the most part. She does bring up interesting points about video game culture as it relates to females. However I really can't stand her condescending snarky attitude when she opens her trap. Also her male hatred is pretty prevalent throughout the videos.
weeeell.... let's call it "inaccuracies".
The word is "lies". The person speaking them is a dishonest scam artist with a history in pyramid schemes.
[–]BSexclusionzone2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well, i could complain about how Hollywood decided that they would discard the character of Harry Mason, a father that would go to the depths of hell in silent hill just to rescue his daughter, to replace it with a woman. Probably because men bravely questing to rescue their offspring doesn't look right on the screen.
But hey, why not have everything revolve around women and nag to change the world instead of doing something productive with that victimhood cash?
[–]GodOfAThousandForms2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Why don't these people support the game developers that include female characters in their games by buying their games?
The Neofem doesn't give a shit about video games-- they care about destroying anything men enjoy.
They have no interest in promoting gaming.
[–]Ark-kun2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Anita talks the usual hypocricial passivistic crap.
But I think that the "women in games" problem is more complicated. I think that there really is a bias (not saying it's devs' fault) against female characters in games and I have an explanation hypothesis.
Women characters cannot please women/feminists. Whatever you do, you would be hated by some group of women.
On the other hand, nobody really cares whether the main male character is fat, thin, ugly or beautifil, smart or dumb. No women - no problems (apart from the lack of women).
[–]TimRattay1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Quick Rant - The solution to sexism In video game…: http://youtu.be/MpJGkG1g-Lk
[–]Steampunk_Moustache1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Rekt.
[–]avantvernacular1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Then buy more tomb raider, buy more portal, buy more metroid, show the industry that there is a demand for games with female leads by making game with female leads in demand. Video game development is a business that Is dependent in profit. Make the time/effort/money spent making games with female leads worth the return by purchasing them.
[–]texasjoe1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
IF she were actually a gamer, she could get into a huff about Ubisoft's statement about making a female protagonist, OR she could boycott them for a real reason, like their shoddy Watch_Dogs PC port.
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