How do I debate to a brick wall?

shit-zen-giggles · 2023-07-31T10:46:39+00:00

you can reply with 'STOP' to the message which will prevent any further reddit care messages from being sent.

If you later want to be able to receive such messages again, you can simply unblock the RedditCare user via the 'blocked users' list in your account settings.

g1455ofwater · 2023-07-31T08:00:33+00:00

I don't think extending the olive branch of peace to feminists is worthwhile. Give the best of yourself to those who treat you the best.

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-07-31T07:00:02+00:00

You don't; Simply observe them in their natural habitat.

Questioning the narrative is not allowed because it does not stand up to scrutiny.

Dkpokefan72 · 2023-07-31T07:47:17+00:00

Dont

UnableGuitar1164 · 2023-07-31T07:02:50+00:00

Don’t, if they are to stupid to have a normal conversation it isn’t worth it

C0sm1cB3ar · 2023-07-31T08:56:03+00:00

You don't. Solutions for men will have to be found without them.

ImOverIt0011 · 2023-07-31T11:35:05+00:00

"how do you debate someone who doesn't even know their own argument"

Intelligent-Term · 2023-07-31T10:39:48+00:00

You need to block Reddit Care Services. People who want to harass you will spam report you to Reddit Care Services and you'll keep getting messages as if you're self harming. It's happened to me whenever I got into arguments with woke liberals and feminists.

And yes, it's seriously this bad and polarized. I occupy the neutral ground and yet have been accused of being a fascist woman hater.

hospital_hypothesis · 2023-07-31T09:30:16+00:00

You can't, most of them are heavily indoctrinated and their coping mechanisms rely on victimhood.

vikarti_anatra · 2023-07-31T09:00:39+00:00

Sometimes you have just understood that it doesn't make sense to talk about some things in some places. Because opponents "knew" "The Truth" and you are either bad or just paid-for-human-propaganda-bot.

Just ignore them as soon as you detect them. Yes, it's possible somebody would want real discussion...just wait until first insult.

As far as I undestood, people in USA are said to be educated how to discussion even if you are disagreed with opponent but almost never saw them actually using such skill.

HamletsRazor · 2023-07-31T10:45:56+00:00

You don't.

And if someone reports you for self-harm, report it as harassment. It's the one abuse that the Reddit mods consistently take very seriously.

Huffers1010 · 2023-07-31T09:42:51+00:00

My position on this is that it's absolutely worth extending the olive branch on every possible occasion. If we do that, we've done what we can.

When the shrieking starts, as it will in a lot of cases, well, you are under no obligation to talk to anyone.

Other posters in this thread are absolutely right in that the sort of people you'll meet online are unlikely to be particularly receptive. It's worth being aware they are not representative of the average human being, and probably if you met these people in person they wouldn't dare be so outspoken (though some of them would, and many people would tolerate it, which is a large part of the problem).

Still, if we at least offer a reasonable response, we have done what we can in good faith, and I think it's important we do that. All they can do is abuse us, and they do that anyway.

Mountain_Collar_7620 · 2023-07-31T10:47:43+00:00

Gravity doesn’t care if you believe in it. Look after Yourself and let gravity deal with the “Wonderwomen”

JeffyFan10 · 2023-07-31T13:00:06+00:00

The best answer to anger is silence. - Marcus Aurelius

Original-Speech-9312 · 2023-07-31T12:15:01+00:00

Neutral ground is rare on Reddit and virtually non existent on ask/femminists and such. In general, where ideology is strong, questioning is not allowed and indeed punished. Stop hurting yourself trying to reason with them. No matter how polite, neutral and well thought your comments are, every deviation from the narrative will be badly receveid. Moreover, even male total feminists are are seen with suspicion

AnonJetlag · 2023-07-31T11:25:34+00:00

Feminists are extremists

RoryTate · 2023-07-31T13:47:24+00:00

Debate with the intention of convincing the large, neutral third-party audience who are reading the exchange. Also, use any such discussions as an opportunity to test and refine your verbal and written skills, and/or as a chance to improve your ability to spot fallacies.

If you only approach a debate with the goal of changing the mind of your opponent, you will fail in almost every case and burn out very quickly. So the best solution is to start seeing the bigger picture, and focus on the things you can change (i.e. your own motivations and perspective).

goodmod · 2023-07-31T07:13:00+00:00

My take on the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/a6knc2/internet_activism/

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-07-31T08:48:05+00:00

There is no point. You can use good arguments if other people are listening/reading, if not do not even waste your time.

ZekalMacabre · 2023-07-31T13:01:58+00:00

Feminists don't want discussion, they never do. They want blind obedience and deference.

Something they will NEVER get from me.

aries0413 · 2023-07-31T13:53:30+00:00

I never argue with children.

Azbastus_Bombastus · 2023-07-31T10:40:23+00:00

You isolate them, win over their friends circles until they have nothing but peer pressure

KrazyJazz · 2023-07-31T12:54:51+00:00

Here's a little experiment for you: Find an empty wall in your house. Set up an alarm for about...an hour. Now stand there without moving, one foot from the wall 'til the alarm sounds. How do you feel? It seems stupid and useless, right? Well, at least, the wall did not bark hate at you. And no headaches.

Edit: Now you have your answer. Hopefully.

RockmanXX · 2023-07-31T16:42:43+00:00

Today I even was falsely reported to Reddit for "self harm" because I asked a question.

I mean, you were self-harming by talking to religious zealots. The zealot views anyone who doesn't agree with his/her views as the enemy.

wackedoncrack · 2023-07-31T18:17:57+00:00

Dont argue with stupid.

These young girls who think they know better than millennia of evolutionary biology are in for a rude awakening.

MushroomMade · 2023-07-31T12:59:11+00:00

Just be better than them man. And keep them as far from your life as possible they will only cause drama.

itdoesnotmatterlolol · 2023-07-31T13:31:30+00:00

I disagree with the commenters here.

You need to become intimately familiar with argumentative fallacies and social manipulation.

You need to be able to spot manipulation

You need to be able to spot argumentative fallacies

You need to be able to dissect fallicious arguments

When you can do these things feminists see themselves out the door very quickly. They learn that they cannot gaslight you, either getting angry and blowing themselves up out of the conversation or quietly seeing themselves out.

I think it is important to spot these behaviors from women and establish healthy boundaries. Women are very socially competent and manipulate. Feminists just do it out in public

LoomisKnows · 2023-07-31T13:41:27+00:00

If they start being vile I paste the text string into chat GPT and ask it to refute them for me :D

Reptilian_Brain_420 · 2023-07-31T13:46:56+00:00

Anything that turns into a flury of insults hurled at you is not a debate.

Once that starts you ignore whoever is slinging the insults and move on with your life.

hotpotato138 · 2023-07-31T15:40:28+00:00

No debating feminists and no dating them.

hotpotato138 · 2023-07-31T15:58:26+00:00

Most feminists don't know anything about feminism.

knight_call1986 · 2023-07-31T16:10:26+00:00

I mean. You don't? What is the gain of arguing with people who don't have an open mind and don't care to learn?

We are in the era of adapt or die. Those not wanting to learn and better themselves and society are lost and we can't save them.

So if Jesus can't save those people, what makes you think you can? Leave em to their delusions, take that fire and apply it to being the change you want to see. Those people are lost, but there are a lot of people out there who could benefit from your understanding.

hwjk1997 · 2023-07-31T23:10:59+00:00

Don't bother debating them. It's just not worth it.

lewandisney69 · 2023-08-01T04:18:09+00:00

You don’t debate them. It’s a lost cause.

Atheist_Bale_ · 2023-08-01T17:45:44+00:00

Arguing with a woman is like mud-wrestling with a pig: The pig enjoys the wrestling AND the mud.

Kooky_Trip5148 · 2023-08-01T22:06:09+00:00

All feminists ive known in my personal life are overweight, poor, toothless or miserable. Stick to debating a brick wall or better still at least you can have a game of footy with a brick wall

No_Cardiologist_797 · 2023-08-01T22:33:16+00:00

Funny you should say you were falsely reported to Reddit for self-harm/suicide as this has happened to me several times.

Doing that is such a dirty and sick thing to do and it displays the worse aspects of female nature. Part of my job is conducting risk assessments for mental health services so I hear first hand what people who are suicidal are going through.

Feminists enjoy and hope that men are suicidal. They love it

Conservaterian23 · 2023-07-31T11:57:14+00:00

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

FoolioTheGreat · 2023-07-31T22:06:09+00:00

As a feminist I would love to hear your arguements.

AndyBrown65 · 2023-07-31T11:04:38+00:00

I’M SURE YOU DIDN’T INTEND TO SOUND SO RUDE, BUT THAT’S HOW IT’S COMING ACROSS TO ME. Disagreeable people sometimes don’t realize they are being rude. When it comes naturally to them, it may be useful to point it out. Then, they will likely think about how they are speaking to you or what they are saying. This way, they know how they are making you feel. Plus, they’ll know that you are trying to still be nice and positively interact with them.
I CAN SEE THAT YOU’RE HAVING A BAD DAY. If you say this, they’ll start thinking about why you think they are having a bad day. They’ll realize that the way they are speaking is giving you a bad vibe. Sometimes a simple comment like this is the perfect comeback. The person you say it to may start speaking more nicely when it is pointed out to them. Another way this comeback could work is that it could make the person believe that you said it because you are worried. This could soften their personality a little when they are communicating with you.
WHAT IS YOUR MOTIVE FOR ASKING THAT? Sometimes people ask rude questions just to make you uncomfortable. They may want to embarrass you in front of others or they just want to hurt your feelings. When you are in this position, ask the person what their motive is. By turning it around and asking them this question, you’ll likely get your point across. They’ll know that you are not interested in discussing it. Plus, if others can hear the conversation, it could shame the person who asked. Even rude people don’t want to be called out in front of others.
I’LL CONSIDER WHAT YOU SAID, BUT I’D LIKE TO END THIS CONVERSATION NOW. Even if you don’t agree with what was said, saying that you will consider it should normally do the trick. This way, the unfriendly person understands that you don’t want to talk about it and will hopefully stop. Then, you can forget it ever happened or you can take some time to consider it later. Keep in mind that most rude people say things that aren’t true and have a goal to hurt you. If you choose to consider what they said, don’t take it too literally. If you find that there was some truth to what was said, you can make a change. On the other hand, if there wasn’t any truth in it, just move on and forget it. Then, the next time that person brings it up again you can answer honestly. You would simply tell them that you considered it already and you don’t want to talk about it again.
I’M FINISHED WITH THIS CONVERSATION. Sometimes, you just have to be blunt. If you’ve tried reasoning with the person and tried other comebacks, it may be best to end the conversation. It isn’t as rude as ignoring them, but you’re letting them know that you aren’t going to be talking anymore. There is no use in arguing or going back and forth, so end the conversation and move on.
HAVE A GREAT DAY! This is another way of ending the conversation. As you’re ending the conversation or walking away from them, a positive statement is the way to go.

White_Immigrant · 2023-07-31T11:53:44+00:00

Assuming this is asked in good faith, genuine attempts at deradicalisation have to come from a place of understanding, empathy, and mutual respect. It is possible, it does however take time, patience and persistence.

44connor · 2023-07-31T13:22:47+00:00

Unfortunately it’s just that, a brick wall. There are a few issues with trying to quiet down feminists in my experience/opinion:

• Women are naturally emotional driven thinkers. If someone is saying a harsh truth, the harshness overtakes the truth part and they won’t accept it. Women live in a world where the truth is constantly tweaked (ex: “Do I look fat in this dress?” They do and they even know it, but you’re not allowed to say “yes” // “Am I the most beautiful girl in the world?” Again, same principle).

• Women love to be the victim. Victim mentality definitely effects everyone (even us men) but it seems like women are desperate for it and won’t allow anyone else to have it. Or they steal it from deserving others (white women notoriously do this).

• Feminists still expect men to be men (a bit ironic). They believe that men need to toughen up and stop bitching. The complaining card naturally belongs to women, they are wired to not give a f about mens problems. Men literally can’t complain about ANYTHING.

• The modern feminist is just as anti-man as they are pro-woman. Saying anything pro-man actually makes them mad, which by definition of a traditional feminist (genuine equality of opportunity) doesn’t make any sense. This movement is trying to resolve already resolved issues. But the feminist hive-mind isn’t designed to stop or budge for any man, no matter how right he may be.

Gambit275 · 2023-07-31T13:28:45+00:00

sounds like my step father

PeacefullyFighting · 2023-07-31T13:49:14+00:00

When the argument no longer has any legitimate backing you can't really dive into a debate. It used to be that people would spit the MSM talking points back at you but the world is so bonkers now they can't even come up with fake reasons/justifications anymore.

UnconventionalXY · 2023-07-31T15:02:33+00:00

Well, you know what they say about beating your head against a brick wall expecting a different outcome.

chewiesnutshot · 2023-07-31T15:35:40+00:00

Most people are like this about any core beliefs they hold unfortunately.

The only thing you can do is calmly provide information. Just list all the ways men are disadvantaged.

Men are the majority of homeless, men are raped the most, men commit suicide worldwide every 60 seconds, men die at work far more than women, men do the hardest most dangerous work and are looked down on for it, men are the majority of prison inmates and we get 3x longer sentences for the same crime as a woman, men automatically have little to no rights to their children, men still pay alimony often when the woman makes more, men can be drafted, etc.

Ask them when the last time a feminist org fought for one of those male issue since they think genius about equality.

PrecisionGuessWerk · 2023-07-31T15:39:25+00:00

Depending on whom you're talking with, it can be that polarized. Not all people can be reasoned with. Many people don't want to be reasoned with. And this goes both ways. Its to the point now where the one thing I can be sure is right, is that anyone with any extreme position (left or right) is wrong. The truth lies inbetween.

You gotta pick your battles. Ask yourself whether or why that person is worth the effort.

wiptcream · 2023-07-31T16:13:20+00:00

when people cannot defend their ideas they throw insults.

That_Permission5911 · 2023-07-31T16:21:05+00:00

I got reported as a "suicide risk" on reddit some years ago by a troll despite the fact i never did or said anything of that nature. I believe it was because of an old post of mine on the Epstein subreddit, which I am now banned from, for sharing the (now popular and mainstream) theory that he is from Mossad.

abramN · 2023-07-31T18:28:23+00:00

you gotta really ask yourself - what purpose do these conversations or debates serve? Acceptance or common understanding? Forget it.

Sirhugh66 · 2023-07-31T19:27:04+00:00

Fanatic: One Who Can’t Change Their Mind and Won’t Change the Subject

melkiorr · 2023-07-31T21:35:21+00:00

You cannot debate logically with someone who is rule by her feelings.

BCRE8TVE · 2023-07-31T21:36:24+00:00

Honestly, the less feminist someone is, the more likely you can have a sane conversation with them.

At this point I consider feminism the same as I would consider it a fundamentalist religion based on a political dogma that can never be questioned and must be taken at face value to always be right.

You can't really talk to or debate brick walls, because there is no discussion, there is no engagement, there is just them refusing to accept any point you show, while they just want to repeatedly tell you all the stuff you should believe according to their religion.

Now, talking to feminists might get you seen by others who are not as feminist, and get other people to see how irrational feminists are being. Your goal then is not so much to debate the feminist to get them to change their mind, but to show how the reasoning is flawed and doesn't follow from the facts, so other people can see your chain of thought and why they shouldn't agree with the feminist.

But yes by and large it has seriously gotten this bad and polarized. It's very difficult to talk with someone who believes that men are the oppressors, men are the enemy, that men set up the entire society to be hostile to women, and that any man who does not agree with everything feminism says is automatically a woman-hating patriachy-supporting oppressive misogynist.

Jacklshere · 2023-07-31T22:26:47+00:00

You take a piss on the brick wall. There's no point in debating feminists anyways, those who will convert to our side will be those who don't really have an opinion for either side.

Longjumping_Mud8398 · 2023-08-01T00:45:37+00:00

It's not really possible to have a reasonable conversation with a cult member if anything you say conflicts with the teachings of said cult.

Anih1list · 2023-08-01T03:10:28+00:00

Lead with consent. Mix it up with consent. Then end with consent.

Then find ways to present Men's Rights in terms of helping women. Ex. "You hate incels, right? I hate incels. You know how social media can negatively affect the self-image of teenage girls? I feel like incels kinda spring from the same place". Use feminist terms like "benevolent misogny" if you have to.

Better a feminist who accidentally helps men than a feminist who actively hurts men.

HerrSirCupcake · 2023-08-02T10:49:28+00:00

use their lingo and trick them into acknowledging your point, after which you acknowledge their acknowledgment and after they peddle back you hit them with a quick one-two punch knockout.

SandBrilliant2675 · 2023-08-03T02:12:25+00:00

How would you approach having a conversation/debate with someone with a radically different political orientation as you? Typically if you’re debating someone with the sole intention of changing their mind or having them align with your beliefs, and if this doesn’t occur you consider it a failure if you do not accomplish this, it doesn’t work. So maybe try having a conversation where you’re just trying to exchange and relay opposing view points, you’ll probably both walk away a little dissatisfied but have also both learned something. Just a thought.

silver_cock1 · 2023-08-04T22:09:07+00:00

It’s not worth it. It always comes back to feelings and not logic, so there isn’t any meaningful debate to be had. We live in such a time of “yass, queen, slay!”, and modern men are paying the price for the benefits we never got. It makes no sense. Just like feminism. Because it’s not about equality, and never will be. All the benefits of being treated equally but none of the responsibility. Only thing you can do is talk with the women who aren’t brainwashed by decades of bullshit.

Huge_Buddy_2216 · 2023-07-31T09:38:48+00:00

You have to understand that for feminists, it's not about being right, but more about feeling right. They don't actually want to discuss issues. They want to score points on the imaginary scoreboard in their heads.

A few days ago a TwoX poster claimed that women had higher pain tolerance than men. Then she cited a source showing the exact opposite. It explained that most research on the topic showed women had greater sensitivity to pain than men.

She cited a source that went against her point. And then she still insisted that she was right and her source actually showed women had higher pain tolerance then men.

Even when I showed her the parts that showed she was wrong.

Even when I explained the research to her.

It didn't matter. In her head, she was right, and I was wrong.

So yeah, my advice is don't get sucked into it because they don't care. They just want to shout at you

Title	How do I debate to a brick wall?
Author	LostActor0921
Upvotes	125
Comments	90
Date	July 31, 2023 5:28 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/15e72e2/how_do_i_debate_to_a_brick_wall/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-do-i-debate-to-a-brick-wall.1226977 https://theredarchive.com/post/1226977

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