Register-her.com hitting the mark - listing false rape accusers at top of Google returns

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Users may now go to the site, enter information on a known false accuser, or other female criminal,

This is the problem I have with that site (I may be mistaking it for another site, I'm not sure so I apologize in advance). There was some woman on I think feministing who kept badmouthing men, so they added her to the site. It's like the whole sex offenders list that adds people who use urinals in front of children, it just devalues the purpose, distracts from real offenders and makes everyone take it less seriously.

As for the site itself, I think it's "fine" as long as it's not being abused (and by fine I mean "okay" since there's nothing else). I know there's a few sites out there that are female only where women can add pictures and information of their ex boyfriends or some app on the iphone where they can take a picture of a guy and it instantly keeps a GPS location with a note about what he did (sexual harassment, etc). This could easily be abused by adding innocent people and ruining their lives, so I hope they require a good amount of proof before they add anyone there.

Personally I'd prefer women received equal punishment and then once they served it we could all move on (without keeping records for life, otherwise what's the purpose of non life prison sentences). The same goes for sex offenders.

I also think it's only a matter of time before the site is shut down.

[–]omniamutantir 16 points17 points18 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]littlebabycheeses 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I had this response as well. It doesn't strike me as a good idea, when fighting the wrongs of guilty-until-proven-innocent and of accusations ruining people's lives, to engage in the exact same behaviour.

I want to know what proof the site requires before adding a woman to its registry.

I realise many women won't give men the same time of day before labelling him, but this would be taken a lot more seriously if they took the higher ground.

Does anyone remember RipOffReport? They engaged in some fantastic extortion (and wiggled out of every lawsuit brought against them) by ranking really well for supposed evils that companies had inflicted on customers and clients and charging for reports to be countered or removed. None of it ever had to be proven, and was weirdly protected under US law.

RoR is generally viewed as a scummy website.

If this site wants to punish and deter, it would be best to avoid coming across as unbelievable and scummy. I'd just like to know what process tehy go through to verify that a submission is really a false rape accuser for real.

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It doesn't matter. The point of the site is in the google returns. When people click through on that they are taken directly to the persons profile and treated to the story of that false accuser (remember the false accusers?) complete with news links and in some cases pictures. They don't even see the front page.

Whether they later go to the front page and follow suit with someone like you who thinks I am a kook is certainly possible, but I bet they don't rule out the news stories because of that.

Or, on the other hand, they may click through to the ONE person who I disagree with, see the positions she has taken on things like due process and presumption of innocence (complete with sources) and, horror of horrors, might just agree with me.

You are more than just a little arrogant to think that all people will react like you have. Or more than a little stupid. Or both. I am betting on both.

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THAT is a false allegation. But not the kind we put on the registry.

We have lots of other types of criminal conduct there, not just false rape accusations. We also have two other categories. One for corrupt public officials, and one for bigots. We qualify quite plainly in our descriptions that "bigot" is a matter of editorial opinion only, and not an inference of illegal activity of any kind.

We have, in the belief of our editorial staff, a false rape culture that has emerged in the west, destroying the lives of innocent people, and the credibility of actual rape victims.

There are individuals in our society, and Jessica Valenti is one of them, who help perpetuate that culture through the bigoted demonizing of an entire class of people, and subsequently using the prejudiced stereotypes they create, to advocate for laws that put them at even more risk of unjust prosecution.

Our reasoning for this is clearly articulated on her profile at register-her. We HAVE NOT tagged her name to a false accuser list.

I am always open to discussing the mission of RH, but I do insist that the parameters stay within the bounds of honesty and fact. After all, keeping things honest is what we're all about.

[–]maryet26 -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm just confused. Discussions about patriarchy and a system that leaves women in a lower bracket than men (or a system that privileges white people over people of color, certain cultures over another, etc. etc., as is often included as INTEGRAL pieces of feminist work) does not necessarily equal men-hating. Wanting to change a system that affects both men AND women in negative ways does not put all of the blame on the men, and I don't believe in any way that feminists (a word in an of itself that is misleading, as most feminists believe strongly not only in equal rights for women but also in civil rights in general, for all people, genders, classes, and sexes) are man-haters or that scholars like Valenti purposefully project such statements. Not understanding the context in which feminist scholars speak may lead to the conclusion of man-hating, but most feminists will tell you that MEN are hardly the enemy--it is the privileges afforded to men through a culture and society (media, especially, is the biggest pieces of this) which favors men that is a problem.

[–]avoiceformen[S] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"I'm just confused. Discussions about patriarchy and a system that leaves women in a lower bracket than men (or a system that privileges white people over people of color, certain cultures over another, etc. etc., as is often included as INTEGRAL pieces of feminist work) does not necessarily equal men-hating."

No, but feminist man hating equals man hating. And you are getting more full of shit than you are worth. If you can, with a straight face, call Valenti, who openly advocates the end of due process, as well as the end of presumption of innocence for men accused of rape, a person generally in favor of civil rights for all people, then you have just passed dumb and landed on delusional.

And you are equally delusional to think that institutions favor men in this culture. Geez, I wish I had some of what you people smoke.

[–]maryet26 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

besides, how can you deny that we live in a rape culture? how many movies have you seen that think it's HILARIOUS when a little, skinny dude gets put into a cell with a big guy named Bubba and it's insinuated that the skinny dude will be his "bitch?" How many jokes have you heard about women who "asked for it" because of what they were wearing? How many t.v. episodes and movies show depictions of rape that are unquestioned because the woman is eventually depicted as "enjoying it," therefore taking the liberty to suggest that women don't actually mean no when they say it? how many times have you heard the joke, "don't drop the soap?" and how many college partyers have discussed how much they want to get a girl drunk so they can have sex with her? seriously, even war movies depict American soldiers raping, being raped, and watching other armies rape (because it really does happen, especially during war, a lot). does showing that on film somehow NOT represent a culture that is interested in seeing that? does a culture that widely makes fun of a very serious issue somehow not equal rape culture? does a society that thinks that people simply shouldn't walk alone at night in order to avoid crime or assault, and that those who do are somehow responsible for subsequent abuse not just scream "rape culture"?

[–]maryet26 -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]avoiceformen[S] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

1) As far as I can see there is no grounds to consider an acquittal proof of a false accusation. It doesn't near pass our litmus test which is that we have to have conclusive proof of a false accusation, as in a conviction in a court of law, or a verifiable admission that the accusation was fabricated. We are not in the false allegation business.

2) If I take the word "recant" literally, then yes, she belongs on the registry. Now, if she refuses, for whatever reason, to not cooperate with the prosecution then that is not evidence enough that the accusation was false.

For whatever reason there are people who have difficulty understanding some very fundamental realities here. The only women on this registry listed as false accusers are ones that have been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to have falsely accused. You won't find a single woman on that registry whose actions have not been well documented and already made a part of public record.

So, do you have a problem with that?

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also the general language is too obtuse and reads like a overly complex academic paper:

It was Valenti's contention that that the assassination attempt on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords by the later to be proven mentally incompetent Jared Loughner was actually a problem stemming from masculinity."

this could be said in much more concise manner.

[| Doctrinal Hatred] Valenti has also advocated that the American judicial system consider adopting the recommendations of some Swedish academicians that rape suspects forfeit the presumption of innocence in favor of placing the burden on the accused to prove they did not commit rape.

too convoluted. it should be simple and straightforward to make the point. even bullet points would make this more feel more official. and that's the sense you want to convey with this registry-- an official document.

if someone reads this as their first article, they're gonna think this is just some crackpot scheme of a disgruntled guy shaking his fist at women. the intent is everything. it should read as a simple, quick reference, not a moral commentary. the point is that they're registered, not that you're using the registry as a soapbox or a courtroom.

if you want to make it sound more definitive and less pedantic, keep the language and sentence structure simple.

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Right off the bat there's a couple of problems with this site. I mean, here's the first article I found on Sidney Hoffman. It's on the front page too, and it says she was found guilty.

23 Year old Colorado police officer Sidney Huffman has been found guilty of lying to police in her false accusation made against an ex boyfriend of domestic abuse.

But the link cited in the article says no such thing. She's only been charged which is very different from being found guilty of anything.

I highly suggest that before posting any articles you proofread your sources and articles. There's a distinction between factual and legal guilt that you don't seem to appreciate. All it takes is one badly sourced, written, or researched article to undermine your credibility.

You have to decide whether you're running a tabloid or a reputable resource on false accusations of rape. So instead of attacking women who have opinions (like Jessica Valenti) focus on women who have actually been convicted of a crime in a court of law. Women who have been accused, but not convicted, are still presumed innocent. The fact that they have not been charged heavily implies that the evidence against their claims is weak at best. Or that the women themselves are actually telling the truth.

Distill the facts of the case, highlight the issues, and give a discussion on the reasoning behind the decision. Formatting it like a legal memo would be ideal.

Otherwise you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

Edit: grammar, more links.

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Damn, you don't take criticism well do you? I'm not even criticizing you. So yeah, kindly shut up?

Look at it logically. The article says she was found guilty. She hasn't though. The article is wrong. It just is. I don't know why you can't see that, lol.

Surely you're not saying that it's good that the article is wrong or untrue? How does that help men anywhere?

You can rage all you want. It doesn't make you right. Nor does it make it right to willfully lie about someone like that. The first amendment doesn't protect you from defamation or libel you know.

It's men like you who give us a bad name. Who cry misandry at every little thing. You're a whiner plain and simple. You can't even see the damage you're causing because you're caught up in a self-righteous furor. You do not speak for men. You cannot speak for men who know what reason is, know what truth is, and know what right is.

So please, just be quiet. You're making us look bad.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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The site SHOULD be as good as the mainstream media. We can't half-ass this site if it's going to be taken seriously. It's got to be true, it's got to be reliable. If you disagree with that then .. you're the feminist concern troll here undermining the movement :)

Tell you what. When you write hundreds of articles, and you edit and design and illustrate 15 magazine issues, and help strategize winning formulas, and can then show these things, then you can call me a feminist concern troll. Keep in mind, that'll be a moving goalpost for as long as I'm alive, since I ain't stopping now.

I'll also be emailing Paul with the good news that you are committing yourself to 40+ hours per week of work, checking the links and fact checking each post exhaustively, to the point where there are absolutely no errors anywhere. Thank you for giving us your time for free (like the rest of us get paid) so that your high standards can be met, and therefore stop making all of us look bad.

I'm making 'personal attacks' precisely because I know you are not going to do one damn thing that I just described you as doing, because you....are...NOT...an....activist. You are a critic. Nothing more.

When you finally put your money and time where your mouth is, you are cordially invited to pick up your criticisms.

Until such time, go fuck yourself.

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[–]omniamutantir 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

Any service to women will only add to the imbalance against men.

wat.

NO. THE POINT IS EGALITARIAN AND HUMANISTIC EQUALITY. Not villainizing women, because that's just as wrong as villainizing men. I'm not saying the information presented is biased. I'm saying a few aesthetic things about the site are.

Never did I suggest you add men to the registry to make it relevant to women (or gay men). What I suggested was that the aesthetic presentation of the site be a little more objective. That picture of the woman with the knife behind her back is as bad as an airbrushed picture of a woman made to look skinnier than is humanly possible or a photo of a male model that has to literally starve and dehydrate himself with no food and with alcohol to look the way he does.

Also, in my larger-picture personal view, I believe that male-specific services are as bad as female-specific services. I think equal services for both sexes (and any other gender identities) in the same place makes a hell of a lot more sense, but that's just personal opinion, though I suppose I could argue it. I digress, that's not the point here.

[–]avoiceformen[S] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]maryet26 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So are you also a fan of white-only organizations?

Can I just remind you that feminists welcome men, and women-friendly-men are in no way excluded from women-centric places? most feminists understand that human rights for everyone can't exist without including rights for men. men are affected by sexism in the system, too. take, for example, the fact that most women end up with the children in a divorce. that's sexism. the courts believe that women are biologically better nurturers and yhatta yhatta only because baby girls get baby girl dolls and baby boys get trucks. people are raised in a society that blindly believes that all of this shit is rooted in biology and so the system reflects that. it's fucked up, we all know that. but women-centric spaces exist because they needed to. 60 years ago, if a woman was beaten by her husband, she had no resources to go off on her own and leave him, or be protected from him. today, shelters will take men in, too. if they don't, then they're stupid. but don't assume that all women-centric spaces exclude men, in the same way that gay rights organizations don't exclude straight people or that an african american student organization would tell a white girl to leave if she came to a campus meeting.

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[–]omniamutantir -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't matter whether I try to convince you or not. You have your mind made up. Anyway, let me try again.

Male-centric services are wrong for the same reasons that female-centric services are wrong. Promoting MORE of a gender bias and divide is not going to bring the gender gap closer, it is going to drive it apart. I'm not sure how you don't see that. My apologies if that sounds rude, but I really don't understand how that is obvious.

As for this:

Actually, the point on my website, which is my intellectual property, is what I say the point is. Period.

That's rather immature of an activist (which is what you are) to say about their cause. Your cause should be defined and, although should be open to change, shouldn't be 'whatever you say it is' because that means you can flip-flop whenever you want. Wishy-washy isn't what people want in a movement. You're proving yourself in that statement to be very naive yourself, temperamental, biased, and immature. Please don't wait for me while I find a more mature, less biased branch of the movement.

If your goal is to bring males the same services that women get with respect to their sex/gender identity, then isn't eliminating the gender bias a broader, better goal? Rather than enforcing it by providing the polar opposite. As I believe I stated before, the answer to the problem is not a extreme swing to the other radical side, but rather a happy medium somewhere at the moderate level. Reduce the 'negative bias' towards men while also reducing the 'positive bias' for women.

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[–]omniamutantir0 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So, basically: "I said I'mma do this so I'mma do this and I dun cur whether it's right or not..."

...right?

Also:

AVfM regards feminists, manginas, white knights and other agents of misandry as a social malignancy.

What the hell. What the fucking fuck. You are offensive, ill-mannered, immature, and crazy. Let me explain something to you. Feminism. Feminism is not bad. Feminism is a good thing. It brought equality to women where they had none. The problem, here, is some people taking it too far because of bad presentation. That's extreme feminism. Not feminism. EXTREME feminism. That's what bad. You are the fucking social malignancy because you are classifying everyone and everything revolving around or having to do with a social movement THAT CHANGED THE UNITED STATES FOR THE BETTER as being 'socially malignant,' because some people are taking it too far.

Learn to choose your words better.

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statistically, rape claims are still systematically treated with exactly this level of suspicion and disbelief, even though statistically (and I think even the re-jiggered numbers of the MRA will agree with me on this one) most rape claims are VALID. I have no doubt, guy51234, that some special lady in your life has been bored and self hating enough to accuse you of rape because she wanted to remove you from office while you paid for her sex, to get back at you, because you got her pregnant, to get good grades and because you weren't paying attention to her (did I miss anything?), but y'know what, society still treats most survivors like weak little lepers, so most ladies aren't willing to cry wolf just for your, admittedly probably very strong, manly, attention. but yes, congrats, you basically summed up why the DSK case fell through, and why 'the sluts and nuts' legal defence is a proven case-winner.

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are you suggesting the prevalence of these issues is the fault of feminists? They're not vilifying ALL men (I know this because, lordy lordy, I am a man and I know a lot of men, and we don't get beaten down my feminist friends every time we have an opinion), but I'm pretty sure they vilify, or at least oppose, the men (and WOMEN) who seek to continue these shitty practices. I agree lives are ruined in the battles that MRA's prize so much too (child custody stuff, male abuse etc.) but even gay rights groups have done more to protect men from that stuff. I'd bounce your critique back on the MRA movement: maybe you'd manage to actually reform people's views on masculinity and show that most men aren't the misogynist idiots we see on family guy and Law and Order, if you weren't so busy vilifying feminists.

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I see. So the ill effects (almost always) men suffer is the fault of 'the system' and is therefore of lesser importance than the 'self image' suffering of the (almost always) woman.

As if the constant painting of men as battering rapists has no effect on male self esteem. As if being thrown in Jail, or Prison, sometimes for years, has no mentally debilitating effects. As if losing the relationships you have, through THEIR mistrust and fear of you, doesn't leave a psychological mark. And having your name paraded around by the media, being publicly called a rapist (although not in so many words), has no effect on day to day living, correct?

And for these people?

There is no help. None at all. ESPECIALLY from career rape counsellors, whose entire ideology is wrapped up in a 'women never lie about rape' fantasy world. Which, really, is the entire "rape counselling' industry. And nearly the entire fields of Mental Health, and the Law as well.

Just because I don't burst into tears over your favorite victim doesn't mean I have no empathy. It DOES mean I have a goal though. And that's getting MEN the help they need, and don't have available...which is quite freely available to women, as you yourself stated.

Uh...bro.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you think I have no empathy for people who are wrongly accused because I don't break down and shake my fists angrily in the air when you tell me how shitty it is to be feared unjustly? sure, I scoff, when you tell me they've experienced the 'horrors of rape' (I thought MRA's thought FEMINISTS had a too broad definition of rape?), because I maintain it's totally different. not worse or better, different. and why the fuck would an falsely accused rapist go to a rape counsellor in the first place for help? to prove he didn't do it? THAT'S NOT A COUNSELLOR'S JOB. get some legal help, or a therapist! If this is a problem you're facing, I'd be glad to see if there's a neighborhood involvement program in your part of the country (if it's the US), and I'm serious about that. also, the rape counsellors in my family have told me stories about their experience with false rape accusation. To my knowledge, there is no rape counsellor who believes, firmly, 'women never lie about rape'. can you show me one? jesus, what a statement to make with no backup. You can't accuse feminists of making stats up then just come back and accuse them of single-handedly running every branch of the administration. doesn't work that way, pal. I'm not accusing your quarter of being the Illuminati, and I'd like the same respect if we're gonna have a civil discussion.

[–][deleted]0 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

sure, I scoff, when you tell me they've experienced the 'horrors of rape' (I thought MRA's thought FEMINISTS had a too broad definition of rape?)

That's because your too-literal mind can't draw sideways conclusions. These men experience all manner of injustice, indignity, and in many cases violence, as a DIRECT result of the 'rape culture' feminists are trying to instill - they've been accused falsely...it's still a 'horror of rape' even if you can't see why.

Edited to complete the post:

To my knowledge, there is no rape counsellor who believes, firmly, 'women never lie about rape'. can you show me one? jesus, what a statement to make with no backup.

Considering that is the basic precept behind the mannerism and procedure currently used in rape trials, I would say that individual counsellor's opinions count for shit. It's OFFICIAL POLICY that 'women never lie about rape'....right down to the refusal to collect statistics on even the possibility that false rape accusations are a problem. Government Sponsored bigotry serves the cause of hiding the truth quite well.

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this may be completely alien to you, but feminists deal with false rape accusations too, BY TEACHING WOMEN SELF ESTEEM AND POSITIVE BODY IMAGE SHIT that means ladies don't need to yell rape to feel validated and heard. I mean, surprise surprise, it's not empowered women who need society's attention that badly. most feminists do, however, prioritize STOPPING real rape over slut-shaming people who wrongly accuse it (which isn't even a productive, humane way of dealing with them). Because statistically (and I think even the MRA's numbers agree with me on this), real rape still happens more than false rape. It's like the public services putting more money into extinguishing fires than prosecuting prank calls. how anyone can equate that to male-bashing is ridiculous. I'm a dude, and I'm sort of bowled over at how attacking rape equals attacking dudes in your eyes.

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Again, I don't deny that false rape charges ruin lives, put people in jail injustly, and fuck up the way men and women deal with each other in general. But really, what is the MRA's direction to amend this? is instantly disbelieving a rape victims and demanding she produce four witnesses to the crime (see: saudi arabia) going to help stop false rape accusation? Maybe, but guess what, it'll shame women into never admitting to be raped in the first place. I speak from experience when I say, it's pretty hard for ANYONE to admit to being raped. for every one black woman who reports rape for example, fifteen more keep quiet about it because they don't want to be called sluts or nuts. and two out of three women in the armed forces is subject to sexual violence too! Okay, sob story, I get it, but the point is, rape victims already expect shame and derision. there is nothing fun or sensational about crying rape and it takes a fucked up person to do it, and THAT'S what is sad about the Cheltenham case, which you quote. I don't believe in letting them all suffer because I few idiots cry wolf. Either that, or the majority of black and armed forces women are now fabricating rape stories, in which case, men are fucked and need to move to mars.

[–]IncrediblyFatMan[🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

for every one black woman who reports rape for example, fifteen more keep quiet about it because they don't want to be called sluts or nuts.

You are making this shit up. Stop divining rape statistics on the spot.

I don't believe in letting them all suffer because I few idiots cry wolf.

You don't believe in punishing actual rape liars as proven by the investigation? Well then. Let's make this clear because you are, like every other dishonest feminist, trying to misrepresent us here. Once again, we're not talking about someone who's allegation cannot be proven. We're talking about someone who was a proven liar. The investigation proved they made it all up! I don't see why they should not be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

How exactly does enacting justice against proven rape liars prevent actual reports? It doesn't. You want to know what might prevent actual reports? Feminists who repeat lies about the conviction rate by using the attrition rate for the crime instead of the actual conviction rate, which is used for every other crime. That kind of politicized dishonesty may just make actual rape victims think they have no chance for justice-- when in fact, the actual conviction rate is much higher. 58% in the UK for 2008 in fact, as compared to the dishonestly cited attrition rate of 6% for the same year.

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Ah, the old my-study-is-better-than-your-study misdirection. I was merely pointing out that it is quite possible that the majority of rape accusations ARE false, since plenty of it does show this as possible. The criteria used to generate 'false accusation' vs 'mistaken' or 'unproved' is likely to be the reason for the difference. Anecdotally, there have been quite a few cops who've stated their belief the FA rate is way over 50%, and I hear college-aged girls refer to 'my rapist' like it's some sort of social rite of passage, with each in a group telling their story in turn.

Now, I understand you're a zealot who will not be convinced but I'll try and get this one through to you:

There hasn't been NEAR enough research into FRAs, and it is one of the big targets for the Male Studies crowd once it's up and running...which, by the way, is yet another area in which feminists attack men, and anyone trying to help them.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

My Stats suck?

You mean the ONLY studies done directly into the phenomenon of false rape accusations, rather than collections of other statistics?

You accuse me of making shit up, while uncritically accepting feminist lies, then you try to paint yourself as 'reasonable and intelligent'? Are you fucking serious? You people still quote '2% of rape claims are false' as FACT when it's been repeatedly shown to be a direct quote from Susan Brownmillers book, in which she quotes the speculation of one female police chief. You people still draw out the Superbowl DV bullshit whenever you get the chance, even though it's been debunked for nearly two decades now. You people still fuck with employment and income data, then paint it as something it's not (comparing ALL women to ALL men's income? Really? Do you refuse to believe housewives exist?). You twist literally every piece of data you can, and misrepresent the rest, to serve your own ends - PROVEN liars again and again....then you have the nuts to call our data suspect?

Well, whatever it takes for you to feel good about refusing to believe what's right in front of your eyes I suppose....

But you're not fooling anyone.

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[–]avoiceformen[S] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

"this may be completely alien to you, but feminists deal with false rape accusations too, BY TEACHING WOMEN SELF ESTEEM AND POSITIVE BODY IMAGE SHIT that means ladies don't need to yell rape to feel validated and heard."

Is that the state of modern women? That they need to be TAUGHT not to yell rape to get validation? Don't tell me, it's the patriarchy's fault right? Women, who are now more educated and now more commonly employed than men, are still downtrodden. No one listens to them so they are forced to scream rape for attention. Are they fucking retarded, or just so morally deficient that they are still in need of being taught basic honesty after they reach the point of sexual maturity?

You make women look so lame with statements like this. It is staggering. I mean, seriously, what kind of fucked up plan is it to think you are preventing false rape claims with hugathons that focus on body image and tacky little affirmation books.

What about insistence on a moral compass? What about accountability for ones own actions?

Fuck sake, who comes up with this shit? And how many nut cases are out there that up vote it?

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Yeah because I mean, how dare they bring attention to these cases!? They should be ignored, PRIORITIZE THE CASES. These people can deal with these problems themselves and we should draw absolutely zero attention to it. The only problem in the rape category is rape itself! Any other problems with it are completely nullified. The people pulling false claims are mentally weak and are the victims themselves rather than the falsely accused. /s (I hope you realize how ridiculous this sounds)

You realize the weak 'mental capacity' is true for the fucking rapists themselves. You know this, right? This is true for murderers, pedophiles, burglars, etc. Obviously some chemistry or altering-event in their brain drew them to doing what they did. Your argument would apply to literally every decision in our lives.

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[–]Zolkowski 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"but you're accusing feminists of militancy?"

Your words, not mine.

The point I was raising, which you seem to oppositely imply, is to not ignore the cases in which there are false rape claims. How would you suggest this goes about? In fact, let's pull this out, because I am not much of a male's right person as I am for human rights and equality. How would you suggest we go about pedophilia, people who scam (essentially the same as a false-rape claim), or domestic abuse cases? Do we spend tens of thousands of dollars to help run them through some sort of psychological program repeatedly until we deem them society 'worthy'? Will we make it where 'punishments' are so minor no one really has to be worried to try to pull of stunts like these? "Well I mean, I guess I can try to send this person into jail for no reason other than my own personal vengeance. The worse that will happen is that they will talk to me about my 'feelings' and what caused me to do this."

On top of not bringing attention to people who get wrongly accused of rape, when someone ends up in jail over it on the receiving-end of the rape charge ringing false - is there still no cause of outrage? Are we just suppose to turn and okay "Oh, well the rape accuser must have some dark feelings inside." When do we draw the line? When do we start holding people accountable for their actions as opposed to holding their hand telling them everything will be okay?

This would be like seeing someone smack someone up-side the head, then you walking up to the assaulter and hugging them. Leaving no attention to the person just getting hit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think people falsely accused of rape, like people falsely accused of any crime, are in a terrible way, and I'm sorry that didn't come across. I'm not sure if it's as bad as being raped, I don't think it's right to compare personal suffering (who is luckier, a kid with a dead dad or a dead mom, etc) but fuck, reddit was just told the story of that guy in texas who is being executed for a crime he didn't do, and my heart goes out to him. That's why I support an overhaul of much of the prosecuting power of the justice system. Because there are loads of people on the sex offenders list that have drawn indecent comics (florida), had consensual sex with someone just under the age of consent, or even, yes, been falsely accused of rape, which, let me reiterate, FUCKING SUCKS. which is why I think we need to not immediately get the pitchforks and torches out when someone is prosecuted of a sex crime. On one hand, they may have been falsely accused, and our job as a society is NOT to slut-shame the accuser into admitting it was a lie (which happens a lot, even here on reddit), but to give the accused the benefit of the doubt until he/she is proved guilty. That is not the feminist in me talking, although the feminist in me believes in due process, that is the legal system overhaul lefty in me talking. On the other hand, if the person is guilty, unless they are being castrated or killed, I think there should be incentive not to do what they did again, which yes, does involve rehabilitative methods. If you can rehabilitate a murderer or a junkie, why not a pederast?

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I can't wait till the lawsuit... Jay de voy and randazza are gonna eat people UP.

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Finally, we can retaliate against a man having his life ruined by an unconfirmed accusation, by ruining these women's lives based on an unconfirmed accusation.

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Okay, there's a link. I'm not arguing that. There is, as one of those abstracts puts it, "a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality."

You're previous comment stated that it is "something you're born with."

A link, or a predisposition, means that your genes cause you to be born with a higher likelihood of being gay. It does not mean that you will definitely be gay. It does not necessarily mean that your orientation is determined entirely by your genes.

If that were the case, then finding out whether or not someone is gay would be as simple as taking a blood sample and sending it to a lab for DNA analysis.

It's possible that people are born gay, I'm not dismissing that. But it hasn't yet been scientifically confirmed.

Also, I can't see anything but the abstract of those studies. I assume you've read the rest of them? Maybe you can copy and paste the "conclusion" sections here?

[–]Marilolli 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

The discussion section is several paragraphs long and a few pages. I wouldn't be able to post it here unless I paid for it. I'll just quote this section, however:

Our evidence is consistent with a mechanism whereby some genetic variation underlying homosexuality could have been maintained over evolutionary time. The genes influencing homosexuality have two effects. First, and most obviously, these genes increase the risk for homosexuality, which ostensibly has decreased Darwinian fitness. Countervailing this, however, these same genes appear to increase sex-atypical gender identity, which our results suggest may increase mating success in heterosexuals. This mechanism, called antagonistic pleiotropy, might maintain genes that increase the risk for homosexuality because they increase the number of sex partners in the relatives of homosexuals.

If you want the entire article you can PM me.

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[–]abk0100 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes, and I agree. I only said there was a genetic link.

No, you said that homosexuals are born gay. That's what I wanted you to show me evidence for. Instead, you gave me 2 studies that say that there's a genetic predisposition.

I'm still waiting for the evidence that people are born gay, but people aren't born pedophiles.

But we could probably say the same thing about autism and we know those people don't actively choose to be autistic.

We know that because we have additional evidence to support that fact. Like I said, I'm still waiting for the evidence that says the same about homosexuality.

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to say, "Let's treat homosexuals worse because they chose to be abnormal."

I'm saying; "Let's not treat pedophiles worse just because you assume that they chose to be abnormal."

Even if it were proven that homosexuality is a choice, I still would want them to be treated the same as everyone else deserves to be treated.

[–]Marilolli1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]abk01001 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

so it's irrelevant whether it's a choice or not for them.

Thank you. If you had said that in the first place, instead of insisting that it wasn't a choice, then I wouldn't have had any reason to disagree with you.

In the future, since it's irrelevant, leave the "homosexuals were born that way" out of your anti-pedophile arguments.

Pedophiles can also get aroused by adults, they just prefer children (so there's a choice).

Whether or not you prefer children is a choice. Whether or not you're attracted to children in the first place isn't necessarily one. It could be, but there's no evidence for it.

A bisexual person can choose which gender they prefer, but that doesn't mean that they chose to be bisexual. A pedophile can choose which age they prefer, but that doesn't mean they chose to be a pedophile.

[–]Marilolli1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]abk01001 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Pedophiles also have a choice of whether or not to act on their sexual impulses

I think I've made it pretty clear that I agree with that.

It's a preference... so it's a choice. An orientation is not

No, preferring children is a preference.

"Pedophile" does not mean "prefers children." It means "is attracted to children."

If a pedophile chooses that they would prefer to have sex with adults, they are still a pedophile.

If I'm a bisexual, and I decide that I prefer men over women, does that mean that I've stopped being a bisexual?

and by some definitions a pedophile isn't a pedophile unless they act on their sexual impulses.

I'm going by the actual meaning of the word. "Pedo" meaning "children." "Philia" meaning "attraction."

A pedophile can choose who they have sex with, and they can choose whether or not they have sex, but there's no evidence to say that they can choose to stop finding children attractive.

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Title	Register-her.com hitting the mark - listing false rape accusers at top of Google returns
Author	avoiceformen
Upvotes	364
Comments	339
Date	September 8, 2011 6:39 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/k93l1/registerhercom_hitting_the_mark_listing_false/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/register-hercom-hitting-the-mark-listing-false.1034892 https://theredarchive.com/post/1034892

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