I don't understand how Western men work

FriendFrog · 2017-07-17T20:44:42+00:00

Western feminism has destroyed western men as much as it has western women.

Pxzib · 2017-07-17T22:18:37+00:00

I am a western man and I thought I'd never find a real woman with traditional ideals here in Sweden, so I just gave up and focused on myself and my career. You would never find me at a club or a party. You would find me by myself at the gym or in the library, reading or listening to music, or playing guitar in my band. I worked in the army for a while, but then I started studying Russian at University just for fun, and as a way to get away from the military life. Always been a science and language nerd, so it was a great opportunity to try delve deeper into those things. I also went online to find Russians to practice my Russian with, as a way to complement my studies, and met one Russian girl who was studying Swedish. We started chatting every day and teaching eachother over Skype. I had no interest in dating at all, I was just glad to make new friends and learning languages at the same time. Eventually we developed feelings for eachother, and the rest is history. Now we live in Sweden, are married, with a two months old baby.

I am not sure where I am going with this, but it's just interesting how similar our situation was to yours. My wife had/has very similar mindset as you and wanted the same in a man as you do. If you want to find a traditional man going his own way, he's probably not going to pursue you or approach you. He will not be at the local bar flirting with women. He will be using his time to improve himself and his career. You need to find him and enter his bubble, and continue from there. If you want a general, find yourself a real soldier who is constantly striving for self-improvement.

She was my first, and I was her first, and that is something we are especially proud of. She was 25 and I was 20 at the time.

JackGetsIt · 2017-07-17T19:41:06+00:00

The west still has pockets of traditional men around but they are keeping very very quiet. They are attacked by feminist everywhere. Traditional men are not allowed to joke or speak freely because they will be accused of racism, sexism and mansplaining and they will be shamed and teamed up against by feminist. They can lose their jobs very easily because HR departments are dominated by SJW feminist ideologies and any accusation made by a female against a male is believed without evidence. So men are between a rock and hard place, they have three choices:

1)become a beta bluepill feminist lap dog advocate,

2)be an open dominate alpha that runs the risk of poverty/jail/social exclusion/divorce rape/false accusation, etc.

3)keep to yourself, focus on career, lift weights, don't get married, and only open up with very trusting groups of people.

I encourage you to look for these small pockets of people and give little hints about your traditional values and see if other traditional men and women bite on those hints. I'm from the states but I'm sure there are pockets of quality men in Germany as well. These men aren't afraid to hit on you they are just tired of hitting on feminist women that attack them for being straight forward. Continue to put yourself out there, continue to reject low quality men and don't settle/give in because they are straight forward, and continue to try to put yourself very close to quality men that will hit a switch and hit on you when they pick up that you're not a wacky feminist. This might be tough to except but maybe if you're hitting it off with a alpha type guy but you're not in the running with him (because he has better options) you can swallow your pride a bit and just ask if he has some friends or if you can hang with him as a genuine friend (do not allow this to be a plate situation!). A truly confident guy won't be bothered by you not fucking him.

Hints ---> Look for military men. Men in corporate positions. Men that enjoy sports/hobbies/poker. Men at gyms. Go to less club like bars and find regular guy bars that have normal groups of local men socializing. Lots of regular guys don't like club type environments. They much more prefer low key pub/sports bar type places that women don't particularly go too (so they don't have to worry about getting attacked for being un-politically correct). Happy hour is also a much better time to meet people instead of late night drunkfests.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

Willkuer_ · 2017-07-17T21:16:24+00:00

It depends on were you live and where you go out. I am from Berlin, Germany, and I prefer Eastern European women for an LTR for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I know people who do as me. It's a quite common thing here that "traditional" (that sounds horrible) Germans date Eastern European women. We neither like the rioting lesbian feminists look-a-likes.

Just go on. You will find one. Stick to bars. Get a girlfriend to meet you there. Every guy (possibly + wing) approaching you two deserves some of your time. Numbers only on the first date and only after stealing some hours of his time and energy.

Btw Germany is somewhere between Russia and Sweden. In Sweden the girls approach as well, in Russia almost only the guys. I know that girls can be really successful in Berlin if they start approaching. But if you do not consider this to be your role then it won't work out.

Honestly, it typically puts me off at least when the girl is average or slightly above average (up to 8) in looks and approaches me. I want to convince her by action that I deserve her (and more). I don't need her help to do that. 9's and 10's never approached me directly. They only communicated by eye contact. That's sufficient for me and should be your number 1 opener. If you think a guy is good for you just look in his eyes and smile. If he doesn't approach he is not worth your time.

batfish55 · 2017-07-18T00:28:36+00:00

Men in western society aren't men anymore. We haven't learned do deal with rejection. So the average looking girls get hit on. Oh no, she's too hot for me. She'd never talk to me.... And then we all lose out.

And, just in case you're not aware....it seems like you honestly might not be....guys get fucked hard in divorce court. Hell, before we even get to divorce court, if you decide you don't like his sexual performance, or maybe he wasn't attentive enough....well, now you can cry rape. And whether its true or not, the accusation is usually all it takes for his life to be ruined.

There are only a few kinds of guys out there: ones with no confidence, ones who are supremely confident but unaware of any consequences....and those of us who've figured out what's going on and don't want any part of it.

Best of luck to you though. I'd suggest trying to get picked up someplace where successful business men lunch. Be careful tho, I hear Germany's not the best place these days, what with refugees running about rampant.

gamermainer · 2017-07-17T19:30:45+00:00

Because of feminism a lot of men are turned off. Traditional women are harder to come by and quite frankly, unless you look like Chad, most women are not worth the effort.

Lahdebata · 2017-07-18T03:17:08+00:00

There are plenty of real men here in the US. Avoid bars, clubs, etc. Go where you'd expect to see powerful alpha men. Think what are their interests? Military men, policemen, firemen, some healthcare industry men. Go to gyms with care, both types of men go there. And I'll probably catch some hate for this, but conservative men are far better for relationships than liberals. Men who dream of a great family life, go to church, work hard, etc...those are mostly conservative men.

En-Zu · 2017-07-17T21:41:41+00:00

What I've understood feminism to be for a long time is the self-destruction of the female identity and an attempt to render everything male. Feminism is the cry of "I can do that too." From wearing men's clothing and shirking more feminine clothes to actively disdaining traditionally feminine tasks.

Admittedly most of these developments were positive. In the end, it will pan out to women adopting traditionally female things out of choice rather than by social decree and you will start to see the pendulum shift back. This will lead to the best of both worlds, allowing the majority of women who are CIS to fulfill their imperative but also not mandating those who don't fit that mold to do so.

What won't shift back are the sexual attitudes towards commitment that you've mentioned. Young people in the west are skeptical of marriage having seen it most collapse around them when they were younger. There's a bunch of different reasons for that but a large part of it is really due to female financial independence. Women don't really need a provider figure so their instinct kicks in and they try to go for one of the top 20% of men and inevitably don't succeed in getting the kind of long term relationship they want as they get older.

The red pill narrative revolves, like a carousel, around the central metaphor of the CC (cock carousel). It's essentially a description of how unchecked hypergamy leads to wall-hitting as women try to fulfill their dual drives for first An "Alpha Male" and then "A Provider" (after the "wall").

When women are allowed to freely pursue these two separate aims how are men supposed to respond? Well, you can separate them into have and have-nots (either by 60/40 rule or 80/20). The haves, the "alpha males," have unchecked power in the early phase of the wall and have a lot of leverage in any relationship. Whether they want to apply that leverage or not is up to them. Sometimes an "alpha male" will voluntarily gives up leverage to commit but that's basically a female unicorn. But most of the time he'll either apply it to get what he wants or have multiple partners and not "commit" to any. This is "spinning plates."

Now, what are the have-nots to do. Their strategy has always been overreliant on commitment. They are the "nice guys." But the real question is, do you want what they have to offer (not alpha-ness)? Can women really learn to be happy and sexually satisfied with a beta male? Do we even want to go back to the old traditional unhappy universe where women are forced to commit to sub-par men because of necessity? I wonder...I don't know if you can lay the feet on women for all of this because I think that the quality of men is also woefully low. They're mostly lazy and unfit. No wonder no one wants them. But the 80/20 rule seems to suggest that women form a dominance heirarchy of men so that even with a group of very fit and reasonably attractive men they'll all go for the top 20% of that group.

What's interesting about eastern europe that I've heard is that the relative lack of men compared to western europe means that men are increased in smv by default and thus don't act as cowed about what they want.

TheLemming · 2017-07-17T23:31:11+00:00

This is one of the reasons I find myself regularly drawn to Russian women :D

Kizka · 2017-07-19T00:32:51+00:00

I am a half russian/half german immigrant with parents feom the Soviet Union who grew up in Germany.

I must say I am very glad that my parents have never been too typically russian and always let me be the way I am. They never pushed me to be super feminine, which I am not, they never pushed me to find a guy and they never pushed me to become a mother.

This resulted in me becoming a confident woman with a good job and a stable relationship with a german man (I could never be with a russian man - too much alcohol, too much macho behaviour).

I would say if you look for a more traditional or conservative man you must either look in the russian community or abroad because you'd probably wouldn't be happy with a german (western) guy.

Juk9876 · 2017-07-17T20:20:52+00:00

I will give the advice that I end up giving to most women that are looking for a traditional relationship: go find it on the Church. To date with secular guys/girls at this moment in the West is a disaster. Most guys are beta SJWs that looks like women, most girls have their mind brainwashed with feminism, casual sex is the norm, you will be looked as an alien when trying to withhold sex, no one "normal" do that these days. The only place that you have a good chance to find a satisfying traditional marriage is in a religious context.

stoicman15 · 2017-07-20T08:18:07+00:00

First of all: be proud of yourself. You are good as you are!

My SO is the same as you - so I know the issue first hand. It is a fact that most other women who say mean things because they envy you/would like to be like you.

Stay true to yourself. There are real men, Alpha + RP (obvious) out there - one day one of them will approach you. The thing is that they are just so damn rare - and you may not find them in a Club...

vitringur · 2017-07-17T19:29:52+00:00

The problem is that you are not living in 19th century Russia. There simply is no economic incentive behind the ideal relationship you are looking for.

It's weird that you say that the "good guys" are taken, that clearly have different values from you and are not acting in a way that you would like in a man.

At the same time you shun at "sleazy immigrants" who probably have values that resemble yours a lot more then the western ideas of freedom and equality.

Edit:

Back in the day you would also have to be patient and wait until you got a decent suitor, or until your father was able to arrange a marriage.

You already know how to be feminine and pretty. Now try new things. Lead your own life.

Don't just whine about prince charming not having swooped you up already to save your life so you don't have to worry about anything anymore.

CcyCV · 2017-07-17T22:33:56+00:00

Hi! I haven't written before in this sub but I've lurked for a while and I just felt I had to chime in. You might get some good advice by reading The Rules. It's sort of outdated but there's some good stuff there, specially about how and where to meet quality men. Specially about volunteering or doing charity work to expand your social circle, but in topics that don't go against traditional values (no SJW or feminist associations, for example) I hope it helps :)

crushedants · 2017-07-18T13:13:37+00:00

Australian/American men are not generally like how you describe. Girls do not have sex with the weak men.

RedPill_Swinger · 2017-07-19T14:52:55+00:00

Italian here. Our situation is compromosed. I've been travelling regularly to Eastern Europe (Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Poland, Hungary) for years looking for a LTR and the reason is that those are non-feminised countries where you can still be considered a human being by bisobeying the feminazi dogma.

RedPill_Swinger · 2017-07-19T14:52:55+00:00

Italian here. Our situation is compromosed. I've been travelling regularly to Eastern Europe (Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Poland, Hungary) for years looking for a LTR and the reason is that those are non-feminised countries where you can still be considered a human being by bisobeying the feminazi dogma.

Sjj631 · 2017-07-20T19:59:11+00:00

"Meanwhile, all the good guys get taken away by girls who put no effort into their looks and watch soccer with them. They tell them what to do and they obey. It's a disgusting sight. They don't commit and think that this compensates that they behave like henpecked douchebags."

I suspect most of these guys got involved with these women because they perceived them to be the only available, semi-acceptable women around. These women probably sweetened the deal by giving it up easy, which gives them an edge on a more attractive, but aloof woman.. Though I believe men (even non players) are generally more courageous about facing rejections from the opposite sex than women, there are limits to the willingness of most men to face repeated rejection, and most men are not willing to hit on large numbers of women--and face multiple rejections--to find a high quality woman who also happens to reciprocate interest in them. Add to that that in a culture of widespread sexual promiscuity, most attractive, feminine women are at any given time in some form of a sexual relationship during their prime attractiveness years, or are at least assumed to be. So in practice many men settle on whatever mediocre options they have sitting right in front of them.

debtisbadforme · 2017-07-23T13:46:16+00:00

To the above poster mentioned aren't men in America any more either. I think it is all the law suits and such.

HobbesTheBrave · 2017-07-18T09:32:51+00:00

I was raised to believe that men and women are equal in the sense that both have to work hard, pursue higher education and get a good job. Soviet ideals, you know. But when it comes to relationships gender roles are essential: Girls have to look the best they can, it'll make them feel more confident and make her man proud to be with her. Guys have to demonstrate that they have what it takes to protect their families.

Continue listening to what your babushka told you. Western feminists are trashy and unfeminine.

Also I hate how things are about sex is here while commitment scares them away like it's AIDS or something.

I would imagine that in Russia, there are ways for men to get rid of crazy women.

Mirella311 · 2017-07-20T23:04:58+00:00

In Russia, one woman dies from domestic violence every 40 minutes. Sounds like paradise for sure.

emohbeemang · 2017-07-23T23:09:55+00:00

Well....thank you for perfectly, I mean crystal clearly illustrating why American men love Russian women. Of any nationality or country I think it's pretty statistically proven that American men have the biggest crush on Russian women.

I've been with both a Russian woman and an American woman in marriage. It is my experience that culturally a Russian woman celebrates your masculinity much more than an American woman. She's so much less spoiled in general and doesn't take good life opportunities for granted.

Overall I think what we see in the west is a softening of gender roles and attitudes. Women are more independent and assertive, men are less so.

the_seducer · 2017-07-18T06:26:35+00:00

I am an Italian immigrant who has lived in Germany and go there monthly. I love Russian woman because they are feminine and care for themself, dress good and respect the authority of the men. Don't listen those German women, be Russian, many men like me seek for women like you. Don't change.

HelloNeo · 2017-07-17T20:15:22+00:00

Honestly, maybe it's due to your venting but you don't sound like a catch at all.

TomHicks · 2017-07-28T08:56:19+00:00

I wait for guys to approach me but the only ones who do are sleazy immigrants

Where do these sleazy immigrants tend to be from?

[deleted] · Tue Jul 18 12:50:40 2017 UTC

[permanently deleted]

md8716 · 2017-07-21T04:02:46+00:00

Late reply, but I want western men to stay exactly where they are, because good captains are becoming so increasingly rare that my own value skyrockets.

It's so easy for my wife to look at most other women in shitty BP marriages and feel lucky that she is with me.

Title	I don't understand how Western men work
Author	intp-doll
Upvotes	95
Comments	103
Date	July 17, 2017 7:11 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/6nvade/i_dont_understand_how_western_men_work/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/i-dont-understand-how-western-men-work.2647 https://theredarchive.com/post/2647

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