DON'T BE THAT GIRL | MensRights

Bobsutan · 2012-12-05T06:24:45+00:00

http://i.imgur.com/jY6gR.png (New & Improved LPS edition, now with QR code) http://i.imgur.com/rVrPg.jpg (LPS edition) http://i.imgur.com/XFzzj.jpg...

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points61 points 13 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]ErasmusMRA 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SCCROW 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tyciol -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]bikemaul 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tyciol 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Carnephex 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]Perpetual_Entropy 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Carnephex 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Source of Dissenting Opinion

March 2011, Vol. 14, No. 1 , Pages 48-52 (doi:10.3109/14647273.2010.520798)

HTML PDF (184 KB) PDF Plus (185 KB) Reprints Permissions

Stephen R. Killick1,2, Christine Leary1,2, James Trussell1,3, Katherine A. Guthrie1,4 1Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Hull York Medical School, University of Hull, Hull, UK 2Hull IVF Unit, Women and Children's Hospital, Hull, UK 3Office of Population Research, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ, USA 4Sexual and Reproductive Healthcare Partnership, Hull and East Yorkshire, Hull, UK Correspondence: Prof. Stephen Killick, The Academic Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Women and Children's Hospital, Anlaby Road Hull, HU3 2PZ, UK. E-mail: [email protected]

This study was designed to establish whether motile spermatozoa are released with pre-ejaculatory fluid and whether this fluid therefore poses a risk for unintended pregnancy. Forty samples of pre-ejaculatory fluid were examined from 27 volunteer men. Samples were obtained by masturbation and by touching the end of the penis with a Petri dish prior to ejaculation. Eleven of the 27 subjects (41%) produced pre-ejaculatory samples that contained spermatozoa and in 10 of these cases (37%), a reasonable proportion of the sperm was motile. The volunteers produced on up to five separate occasions and sperms were found in either all or none of their pre-ejaculatory samples. Hence, condoms should continue to be used from the first moment of genital contact, although it may be that some men, less likely to leak spermatozoa in their pre-ejaculatory fluid, are able to practice coitus interruptus more successfully than others.

tl;dr: If you have a high fertility rating, your sperm will find a way.

[–]Perpetual_Entropy 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Carnephex 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MartialWay -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]n0t1337 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Perpetual_Entropy 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]n0t1337 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Perpetual_Entropy 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tyciol -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Carnephex 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Carnephex 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MartialWay -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MartialWay -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ErasmusMRA 72 points73 points74 points 13 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slutmiko 70 points71 points72 points 13 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]BabyBlumpkins 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Umedark 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jimm607 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Warhawk444 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueoak9 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist_verd 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MartialWay -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Speculum -12 points-11 points-10 points 13 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian 9 points10 points11 points 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wordshark 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, that imbalance is just a biological necessity. I think the better point is that an unmarried woman can unilaterally choose whether or not to pursue child support, whether or not to give the kid up for adoption, and even (this one is crucial) whether or not to abandon the kid at a "Safe Haven" shelter and walk away from all parental responsibilities and obligations, no questions asked. An unmarried woman can quite literally choose if the child has the right to financial support from both biological parents, one biological parent, or no biological parent (remember this the next time a feminist wants to use the tired "a child has the right to the financial support of the father" argument). An unmarried man can choose to obey the mother's decisions, or go to prison--and they're always passing more legislation to punish disobedient men more and more harshly.

[–]zuesk134 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]callthebankshot 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]InNomine 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Speculum -8 points-7 points-6 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]Speculum -10 points-9 points-8 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Speculum 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ghebert001 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slutmiko -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pecanpig 36 points37 points38 points 13 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ErasmusMRA 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Collective82 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]McFeely_Smackup 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SCCROW 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ether_reddit 15 points16 points17 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]seahorses 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ManUpManDown 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Crimson_D82 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SCCROW 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SCCROW 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]krashmania 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]the_number_2 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SCCROW 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]saracuda -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gorbal 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SCCROW 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hypersapien 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan[S] 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SentientWinter 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]vgarrett 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan[S] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]vgarrett -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]airodynamic1000 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]vgarrett 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]airodynamic1000 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]vgarrett 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]airodynamic1000 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hardwarequestions 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dranosh 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rapiertwit 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan[S] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not considered an accident, it's about choice and being responsible for them--namely we want equal opportunity for men and equal responsibility for women. More to the point it's about equal rights.

Women get the choice of how to proceed post-conception. Men do not. Since women get a say, why shouldn't men? If for men conception means parenthood, then in a fair and EQUAL world abortion should be abolished, you know, in the interest of equality. If that's now your cup of tea then how about creating some legal rights for men in this regard. After all, that woman's unilateral choice is going to significantly impact him, particularly if she elects to have the child and tap him for child support. If she can choose to have the baby or not, then he should at least have the choice not to become a parent as well.

A perfectly reasonable solution is to allow men a period of time to "opt out", and if the woman elects to go forward then the man should be afforded all the protections of a sperm donor. What the woman is doing, choosing on her own to have a baby, is absolutely no different than had she gone to a sperm bank.

[–]rightsbot 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]AHrubik -7 points-6 points-5 points 13 years ago (63 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrispyDogmeat 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]antjanus 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pulling out has almost identical fail rate as condoms. js.

Also, the fail rate of male contraceptives (other than vasectomy) is about 15% with proper use while women's contraceptives are with <10% fail rate with modern contraceptives that involve that copper metal shit at <3-4% fail rate or even less depending on specific type (lowest one is .6% I think).

http://www.contraceptivetechnology.org/CTFailureTable.pdf <- here is an updated list with different numbers that I stated but similar trend where female contraceptives can have a fail rate of as little as .02% while men's lowest is 2%. Withdrawal vs condom use vary by 2% when perfect used and 4% typical use (not really significant if you think about it). Might as well have sex like the catholics according to your calendar.

Just one more note. Male sterilization has about the same fail rate as Mirena, mirena being long-term but not a one-way contraceptive.

[–]metsakutsa -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrispyDogmeat -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]metsakutsa 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik -5 points-4 points-3 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrispyDogmeat 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SCCROW 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CamSandwich 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueoak9 -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hillbilly_hubble 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[+]AHrubik -6 points-5 points-4 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pureos 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]THEAdrian 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hardcorex 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]antjanus 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

1) Untrue. How do I know? From personal experience at my school and others in the area (I'm from Georgia).

We were taught adamantly that abstinence is the only effective contraceptive. We were not taught about ANYTHING else. Any discussion regarding contraceptives was not allowed, "This is not what we're here to discuss", the teachers would say.

If I based my view of sex on sex ed, I'd believe that:

90% of people around me have STDs which makes them miss weeks of work and school every year which causes them to get fired and drop out. They are bad people.
There are NO contraceptives that are remotely effective. Abstinence is the only contraceptive you should use. Everything else is shit. Anyone that tells you otherwise has obviously not learned anything
You should have sex only if you want children. Otherwise, you're irresponsible.
There is momentary pleasure in sex. So...just stay away from it.

And i'm not kidding. I didn't go to a religious school or anything. It was just a regular high school. Friends from other states that went to other schools shared my experience.

[–]THEAdrian 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]hillbilly_hubble -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]antjanus 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think the point is here that whatever precautions you both take, the girl may still get pregnant. And that's fine because that happens.

However, what happens afterward, a man has no power over. The girl may decide to take a morning after pill or get an abortion or not. And the guy can't do anything.

Pre-sex and during sex, they are both equally able to prevent pregnancy via contraceptives. After sex, the woman has the decision making power.

I'm not entirely sure how this could be structured due to philosophical and religious dilemmas. If the girl does not believe in abortion, should she be forced to if the man doesn't want the child? Should she bear the responsibility of them by keeping the child and the man refuses to take responsibility of the child?

The other way around, if the man does believe in abortion, should he be forced to accept the woman's decision just because her beliefs differ? Should the man have to suffer losing a potential child just because woman doesn't want one and nor does she want to give birth?

The power is currently all on the female. If abortion was illegal, they'd be both equally responsible for a child that neither may want. I just don't know a good way of dealing with the situation.

One thing I could see happening is kind of a sign off like so:

if neither man nor the woman want the child -> abortion/adoption. Adoption part would depend on their beliefs or whatever.
if one wants the child and the other does not, the one that wants it will have sole rights. In the case that the man wants the child and the woman does not, however, would we require her to come to full term and giving birth so that the man can keep the child? Could the man sue her if she miscarried for possible foul play? Idk.
if both want it, there's no issue.

Idk, this may sound a bit better than other alternatives

[–]AHrubik -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueoak9 -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

You never answered my question, you just stated the obvious:

What I'm trying to get you (and everyone else) to realize is that once the pregnancy exists you've lost your ability to choose. You've given it to her. Your ability to choose starts and ends with your decision to have sex. That's where your rights are strongest and if you choose not to think then it your own fault. Once the child exists you're both responsible for it IMO.

We all know this, the question is, WHY is it like this? Nobody is asking for "control over a woman's body" what we want is the chance to opt out of fatherhood. Once again, if BOTH parties are EQUALLY responsible, how come only one gets the choice? I'm pretty sure this subreddit is about advocating for change, so why are you just spouting "this is the way it is, accept it!" Pretty sure that's not what this subreddit is about so either start advocating for change or GTFO.

[–]ExpendableOne 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

By that logic, any argument for being pro-choice(for women) goes out the window as well. Sex happens, accidents happen and young/inexperienced men/women will make mistakes too. Not everything is full-proof and, once the deed is done, men need recourse too. Not even going into the entire financial support aspect of it, it's still the rest of his life on the line too. Men should have right to choose whether or not they become a father, rather than have those emotional, financial and physical responsibilities that come with being a father. Lets not also forget the issue of bodily integrity, and of who owns that seed or consent in how it is used. His body, his choice. Otherwise what applies to men should really be applied to women as well, and any pregnancy resulting from unprotected sex or other mishaps should no longer become a choice but a life-long responsibility.

[+]AHrubik -7 points-6 points-5 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueoak9 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Having a choice in the matter is not shirking personal responsibility(though, again, if you were to make that kind of argument, you would have to make it about women's choice as well). Which ever decision someone chooses to make, they have to live with that choice. That is part of taking responsibility for their actions and, regardless of what your personal opinions may be on the matter, it is still their life, their body and, therefor, their choice. And, no, it's really not the same thing as "oops I accidently killed someone", that is a ridiculous analogy. It may be more accurate if the scenario was "I let my friend borrow a knife to cut a sandwich but she used it to go kill someone. Now I'm an accessory to murder and testimony alone decides whether or not we end up going to jail for life" but, even then, it really isn't fair to compare murder to an unwanted pregnancy.

[–]Hardcorex 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AHrubik -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hardcorex -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]becauseyoucanthandle -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]cap10quarterz -11 points-10 points-9 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]callthebankshot 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SCCROW 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	DON'T BE THAT GIRL
Author	Bobsutan
Upvotes	366
Comments	158
Date	December 5, 2012 6:24 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/14b6xs/dont_be_that_girl/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/dont-be-that-girl.1007514 https://theredarchive.com/post/1007514

Comments