It is so frustrating...

typhonblue · 2012-10-23T00:22:55+00:00

She did actually once say it was okay because when she gets physical on a guy that it is cute

You cannot simultaneously reap the benefits of being seen as weak while proclaiming that everyone must view you as strong.

SteelCrossx · 2012-10-22T23:55:01+00:00

Her response every time is that men are physically stronger than women which means they can never hit them.

This is a common logical error. Men are statistically stronger than women, not necessarily individually so. There is no guarantee that every man is stronger than every woman and for some men it is likely they are not stronger than a large portion of the women they encounter. It obliterates her argument. She could say that men should never hit a woman that is physically weaker but, when pressed, she's eventually going to drift to "one person should not hit another person whom is weaker than them" or resign herself to an openly sexist claim.

Even the non-sexist extension of her argument is absurd. What benefit does the stronger person get from being stronger when they are restricted from using that strength? Standard self-defense concepts (like your position) are much more reasonable.

r_rships_account · 2012-10-23T00:03:53+00:00

Talking to a 3rd wave Feminist about MR is about as productive as discussing atheism with the Pope.

Quit wasting your time and talk to moderates. For every joule you burn on her, you could have convinced 10 regular people that we have valid arguments.

nitpickr · 2012-10-22T23:49:56+00:00

[permanently deleted]

NightmareFiction · 2012-10-23T00:07:39+00:00

On the subject on male vs. female violence, she brought up the point that men are physically stronger, which is true. However, the idea that due to our innate physical strength difference, a male is not allowed to hit a female (but the reverse is acceptable) clearly goes against the equality that feminism in general fights so vehemently for. If their goal is to be treated fairly (ie. held to the same standards men are), then should they not be allowed to strike us either. Men can't hit members of the opposite gender under any circumstances, therefore, women can't do it either. In that regard, that is equality. If a woman strikes a man, she should be expected to get hit back as per the laws of cause and effect. But due to the remnants of chivalry and white knights males, society stills views women as dainty maidens that need someone else to fight on their behalf.

As for your taste in women, she's just trying to get you riled up because her comment doesn't even make logical sense. Just because you eat salads, doesn't mean you're hungry; you're eating, are you not? Conversely, nobody forces women to wear high heels, they do it themselves to be fashionable. Admiring the look it gives is the same as admiring an artist's painting. It's not misogynistic to like women who are invested in their looks. Hell, that's not even really what misogyny means, now that I think about it.

Unfortunately, you have to view feminism in the same way you view religious zealotry, and handle the discussion as such. There's not a snowball's chance in hell this woman will ever come around to your point of view, and her aversion to even give it a mild consideration should be a glaring indication of that fact. I'm an athiest and I stopped trying to argue religion a LONG time ago for this very same reason. Feminist do not want total equality, they only want it when it's beneficial to them. The sooner you understand your opponent, the less there ramblings will bother you.

ErasmusMRA · 2012-10-22T23:44:42+00:00

You have to remember that equality is an anathema to freedom. Feminists want to force their idea of equality on everyone else. If feminists ran the world we'd be living in a totalitarian regime.

oneiorosgrip · 2012-10-23T00:26:19+00:00

You are dealing with someone who is the equivalent of a religious fanatic. Her beliefs are not based on evidence or logic, but on rhetoric and emotion. As such, logic, reason, and facts aren't going to be persuasive arguments when you're talking to her. This is an individual who is either going to learn her lessons about feminism the hard way (when her ideology turns around on her and fucks up her life,) or she's going to continue down the path she's on and become a bitter, angry, man-hating matriarch, and whichever one of those happens will occur independently of any discussion she has on the topic with men.

Miracle_Fruit · 2012-10-23T03:30:27+00:00

men are physically stronger than women which means they can never hit them

I really don't get that. I'm 5'8" and 125 pounds, and have no upper body strength to speak of. Does that mean I can kidney punch dudes far stronger than me and expect to get away with it? They're quite clearly physically stronger than me, after all.

2012-10-23T04:05:25+00:00

You simply can not reason with an irrational child. Waste of time.

SamTheEnglishTeacher · 2012-10-23T07:27:36+00:00

This woman has some kind of axis 2 mental illness, ie personality disorder. Interestingly, I heard somewhere that most feminists have either borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder. Both types have a tendency to willfully "misunderstand" the people around them to create drama.

Bartab · 2012-10-23T00:53:51+00:00

Remember this feminist truism: Allowing women to make choices about their bodies and their lives that disagree with feminist propaganda is "misogynistic"

2012-10-23T04:11:20+00:00

Cut the bitch off, no need to have toxic friendships with mentally inept children.

2012-10-23T00:42:32+00:00

I'd like to point something out -

Men are more physically capable than women on average. I'm 6 feet tall, I weigh 190 pounds, I lift regularly and I'm in pretty good shape.

I've met women who could absolutely whoop my candy ass if it came to that. Anyone see that girl who won the gold in Judo for the US? I'm willing to bet a lot of money she could dominate more men physically than could dominate her.

owensounder · 2012-10-23T01:13:36+00:00

Use the "against me" debate technique. Stefan Molyneux talks about it quite a bit here.

Might help debating the emotionally irrational.

AdolphusPrime · 2012-10-23T01:35:18+00:00

"I then in a conversation said my type of girl is one who wears heels, eats salads, and gets their nails done "

Maybe your type of woman should be one that shares your values and ideals - not just one who wants to spent all your money on expensive shoes and cosmetic treatments.

And anyone who thinks a man should "never" hit a woman is a mindless idiot.

rightsbot · 2012-10-22T23:30:18+00:00

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JamesRyder · 2012-10-22T23:55:54+00:00

I wouldn't take it too personally, some people are a bit strange like this.

Recently my ex out of the blue started verbally abusing me over IM, but knowing what she is like I countered back and demanded she tell me what the problem was. Turned out she thought she was going to die because she was fatigued despite sleeping and kept passing out. She got better again, but I also keep telling her to see a doctor because she is most probably anaemic. Why did she take it out on me? Why doesn't she go to the doctor? I've given up guessing at this point.

It might be that she just likes you, at the very least she enjoys a good argument (what is not necessarily a bad thing).

2012-10-23T00:29:25+00:00

The most frustrating thing about those kinds of people is that you'll keep arguing with them and they will never understand or accept your logic, even if you understand theirs.

Sometimes, the best thing to do is to accept that the argument in question is futile and point that out, saying something to the effect of, "Obviously you are not willing to consider what I have been saying, so I won't waste my time trying to convince you otherwise. However, there is no need for you to be so antagonistic and confrontational."

mikesteane · 2012-10-23T01:48:31+00:00

Seriously mate, you must have better things to do with your time than to argue with this woman.

whiskeyisneat · 2012-10-22T23:46:02+00:00

Maybe toss a few links her way about women who murdered their husbands and then got off with a slap on the wrist and say "did they deserve it too? I guess this guy should be sentenced similarly. Maybe call things as they are: violence and murder. Take the sex out of those involved and punish both crimes fairly under law." After that you've done all you can do. I usually talk to people with an understanding modeled after the old "you can bring a horse to water..." adage: you can bring someone to logic, but you cannot make them think.

2012-10-23T00:22:38+00:00

Unfriend. It's that easy. You ain't gonna get anywhere with this one.

actanonverba8 · 2012-10-23T01:20:28+00:00

You are wasting your time completely talking with this complete misandrist ideologue. Talking is a woman's game anyway, especially talking in circles. She's not getting annoyed by you and her going in circles (as it is natural and familiar to her) but you are (because you think making sense and fairness are important). As Chris Rock once said, women go for "distance" and "irritation" when arguing whereas men are hampered by a need to make sense.

IsADragon · 2012-10-23T01:31:53+00:00

Would it be possible to see the article she linked you, just want to see what exactly happened. I mean you did say your stance is that a man can retaliate when he is attacked by a woman, which I agree with. The ability to defend yourself without expecting to be punished for defending yourself should be a fundamental right, but this right comes with the responsibility of using appropriate force. It is very important you note this when you make your stance.

If a woman hits a man three times her weight, then yes he can retaliate, but he must retaliate appropriately. He can't(as is likely in the article she linked you) go over board and completely incapacitate his aggressor(depending on circumstances). That doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to defend himself by say, removing her from around him.

The same obviously is true for the reverse, a woman who was slapped by a man should not then go and stab him. Appropriate responses to aggressors is acceptable. At least that is how I feel about the situation.

ThatGhost · 2012-10-23T08:21:47+00:00

No one should anyone EVER? Sorry you lost me there.

drunksaver · 2012-10-23T09:08:15+00:00

My girlfriend uses the men are physically bigger argument all the time, but seriously, she's 120 lbs of pure rage when she wants, and I wouldn't dream of starting a fistfight with her.

SSssssssssssheeeit · 2012-10-23T10:31:46+00:00

Sounds like you're wasting your time.

Trying to convince a feminist not to hate men, is like trying to convince a skin head not to hate jews.

mdoddr · 2012-10-23T12:38:23+00:00

She's a stupid idiot. Don't even argue with her. Just smile and say roll your eyes and say "well.... " and shrug.

preaching to the devil is just as useless as preaching to the choir.

Try and reach the moderate reasonable people. Imagine being the type of feminist who we often see here that comes to agree with our perspective looking back at the type of arguments this girl is spewing.

Right now you're marching into the battle alone. Build an army first.

Nepene · 2012-10-23T13:19:17+00:00

She does sound frustrating and hard to argue with. She wants to use her female privilege to be a bitch and face no consequences. It's like beating on a kid because you're bigger.

LadyLuq · 2012-10-23T03:49:56+00:00

So your type of girl is one who eats unfilling food that will leave her hungry, wears shoes that hurts her feet and damages her back, and spends ridiculous amounts of money on a useless cosmetic procedure? I don't really understand that.

frederickharttt · 2012-10-22T23:44:43+00:00

You're thinking too much into all of this. It's very simple. Women have become selfish children. And, brainlessness rules their meager thoughts. It's up to you if you will stick around to enable their infantile escapades. When men remove themselves from a women's childish behavior, they will settle down. The reason being: Women can't stand to be ALONE.

dumbguyscene28 · 2012-10-23T02:11:12+00:00

Um, I'm thinking she is physically attracted to you. And this is how some people think flirting and attraction works.

I would neg her, something like, "of course though you're a feminist, I'm willing to bet you still shave your pubes."

I'm pretty sure if you play your cards right, you can get her between the sheets, and have your way, and even turn this into a cute meet and a rom com.

Title	It is so frustrating...
Author	whiskeyisneat
Upvotes	43
Comments	130
Date	October 22, 2012 11:30 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/11wrup/it_is_so_frustrating/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/it-is-so-frustrating.1010769 https://theredarchive.com/post/1010769

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