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TastyCake123
[–]sirloafalot 26 points27 points28 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I married a man with three children from his previous marriage. He is not wealthy and in fact my salary pays the bills while the remainder of his salary, after child support, is for "non-essential things" like gas for the car and groceries.
I'll gladly work a billion more years if that's what it takes. He is the most honest, hardworking man I've ever met in my life, other than my own father. It's a shame his ex-wife didn't appreciate those qualities but I'm kind of thankful she didn't because he's mine now and I not only appreciate him, I actually respect who he is as a person.
[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
He is the most honest, hardworking man I've ever met in my life, other than my own father.
I find this very amusing (however, not in any snarky or mean spirited way on your part) but it shows a little of the relationship you had with your father. Very positive stuff there.
[–]APock 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Thank you for not being a terrible person.
[–]Grayswan -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Sign of the times: a woman is appreciated merely for not being terrible. Shouldn't that be the expected minimum?
[–]KMFCM 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
it's expecting too much in our society
hell, it's too much to expect of any human nowadays
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (51 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]fondueguy 76 points77 points78 points 14 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
The real issue is that they could actually not work, divorce a guy, and cash in on him.
This conversation reveals a lot about our system, which is the threatening part.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link
[–]itemforty 14 points15 points16 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
At first I was pretty ragey, but then I remembered that the percentage of child support can't be half. Then I got ragey because someone out there DOES do this, and then I got sad. Then I ate a sandwich.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
In CA, child support and alimony can equal 50%. I had to pay half my income to my ex-wife for 3 years while she took that long to take 3 semesters of school to get a 2nd college degree. Then she worked part-time for 1 year. Now, she has a full-time job, but I am still being forced to pay her 1/3 of my income in alimony and child support. And, in my most recent court motion, I was forced to pay her attorney's fees. Whether this conversation is real or not, it could be true, and this whole system needs to be overhauled or abolished.
I, and thousands like me, don't deserve this.
[–]lowspeed 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Occupy....
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Been thinking about it. Isn't Occupy about rich people controlling and gaming the system?
My problem is about a family court system that should just stay the fuck out of my life.
[–]aaomalley 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
True child support cant be 50% of income, but that isnt what was said. She said he paid 50f of his earnings after taxes. If hewas ppays an average 20% a year in taxes, and she was given the maximum award of 33% (in most states) then he would, in fact, be paying half his after tax income.
Now i dont think this is real, but it certainly is accurate. Also if they did divorce they 33% to the second wife making it so he is paying 66% of his income to women he is no longer with to support childen he no longer gets to have a say in raising.
This is why i will never engage in a legal marriage. I absolutely want a life partner and to find life-long love, but that will never involve marriage. I will gladly throw a commitment ceremony that is identical to a wedding but will not allow the state to enter into my relationship and anything involving that part of my personal life. I dont have common-law marriage in my area, thank god, so it is still an option. I also will never have biological children, and will be getting a vasectomy in a few years when i have the money (insurance should cover them like birth control, but mens health doesnt matter). I wholely plan on being a father someday, but it will be through adoption where i am listed as the sole parent. I prbably will adopt before eveb getting into a relationship unless something unexpected happens in the next couple of years while i get financially stable.
Even with those precaustions taken, i still fear that if the trend doesnt change the law will be changed to make those things ineffective, mainly because more men will start doing this as more men involve in the MGTOW movement and the women power folks in the third wave feminist movement/acedemia/politics will see women losing their influence and control of men and feel the need to forcefully take it back. Tthat is why I am an MRA, to try to raise awareness and prevent the few rights men have to be stripped away.
[–]MikeFromBC 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If I can recall correctly, common law couples, (Non-married but living together) have similar separation laws. (i.e after a certain amount of time, if you separate, you may still have to give up a % of your wealth.)
I'm not 100% sure though, you should look it up.
[–]Paranoidexboyfriend 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
common law marriage has been abolished in all United States jurisdictions since 2002. (not sure of the year, but am sure that no more states have it)
[–]bacon-n-eggs 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You should check out to see if your insurance convers vasectomy or not. I have had several policies and it has always been covered as long as birth control is covered. Also Planned Parenthood does them very cheaply.
[–]morethanpretty 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Starting in 2012, health insurance companies will have to provide no-cost birth control and other preventative services for women. Although I think this is great to help women with preventing unplanned pregnancies and making sure their sexual health is taken care of, I was kinda of disappointed to find this only goes for women. Although Planned Parenthood does provide low cost sexual health care for men as well as women, I think male sexual health is mostly ignored. Perhaps because women have a lot more control over preventing pregnancy since they have more options, they are considered "responsible" for birth control and therefor a male's role in birth control is ignored? That is the only reason I can think of, but I think it would be great for there to be a greater emphasis on a man's responsibility in birth control and a vasectomy to be considered preventative care. I do know from experience that a doctor will refuse to give a young and/or childless woman a form of permanent birth control as they may change their mind. I personally don't think that should be the doctor's decision and a woman should have the right to choose permanent birth control. I do not know if the same stigma occurs for young/childless men seeking vasectomy and would be interested if anyone here has experience with that.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I do not know if the same stigma occurs for young/childless men seeking vasectomy and would be interested if anyone here has experience with that.
It does, and a lot of doctors won't perform it. Some others demand a long waiting period to "be sure" you really want it. As if many men are going to go in there and say "Hey doc, please cut open my nut sac" on a whim.
[–]morethanpretty 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think you need re-examine some of your hard line decisions. 1) You can get a prenup before getting married to a woman if you're that concerned about them screwing you over in divorce. 2) If you don't trust a woman enough to marry her, then maybe you shouldn't be in a long-term committed relationship with that person. 3) Most marriages go belly up because the couple dives in head first and never really stops to consider what they're doing. Before getting married a couple should go through relationship counseling, this tends to lead to more stable and serious relationships and marriages. 4) I fully support your decision not to be a breeder, but any person who is participating in the act of raising your children and have an emotional invested interest probably deserves some parental rights to that child. Any woman who would help you raise your children will probably be in the right to ask for some parental rights, and if they are accepting of not having those rights then they are probably not emotionally invested, and really shouldn't be forcing them to be their mother figure or you shouldn't be in a relationship with a person who doesn't love your kids like their own, in my opinion. 5) Read up on some of the reasons that homosexuals are fighting for marriage equality. There are a lot of protections that marriage gives to a married couple that have nothing to do with child support or alimony. Legal civil partnerships do not even come close to this and that is why couples are fighting for marriage. Although I personally feel that marriage should either be allowed equally to all consenting adults, or it should not be supported by a secular government because the only arguments against marriage equality have to do with religion and our government should not be making laws with purely religious backbones. Although I personally don't want marriage at this time and don't see it for myself down the road either, it is because I admittedly don't want a commitment that serious. Maybe when I'm 80 I'll settle down to one partner for the rest of my life. So I'm not really saying that not wanting marriage is a bad thing, but my point is that you seem to want all of the benefits of a long term committed relationship with a family life, and your reasons against marriage isn't commitment based, but based in pure mistrust for the opposite sex. Not all women are deserving of that mistrust, just like all men are not deserving of the mistrust a lot of women have for them, and that if you can't push aside your mistrust for a person you love, that maybe you should re-examine that and not be in a long term relationship, raising a family, if you can't fully trust your partner.
[–]2StandardDeviations 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
1) You can get a prenup before getting married to a woman if you're that concerned about them screwing you over in divorce.
Terrible advice. Do not depend on a prenup to protect you, you can still get hammered horribly.
2) If you don't trust a woman enough to marry her, then maybe you shouldn't be in a long-term committed relationship with that person.
I don't even know what to say to this. Being trusting has not prevented millions of married men from getting horribly hammered in divorce court. At a certain point, government interfence in a once great institution can render it too dangerous for a wise man to risk it. It can become a corrupt institution that de-stabilizes relationships more than stabilizes them, by creating massive financial incentives for your wife to the leave. Think of it as a quarter million dollar "signing bonus" she gets to take your kids and shack up with another man.
Enjoy have a wonderful committed relationship, but don't feel safe getting married until they reform the marriage laws.
Any woman who would help you raise your children will probably be in the right to ask for some parental rights, and if they are accepting of not having those rights then they are probably not emotionally invested, and really shouldn't be forcing them to be their mother figure or you shouldn't be in a relationship with a person who doesn't love your kids like their own, in my opinion.
He can grant any parental rights as needed. He's just smart enough to not let a corrupt institution like Family Court get involved.
[–]chavelah 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
None of the things you want to do are wrong. You can do all of those things and have a good life and give an at-risk child a happy home.
But they sure you make you a shitty choice as a life partner. No marriage? No biokids? No legally enforceable shared parenting? You should be SCARED of a woman who would take that deal.
Don't believe the hype. I have an amazing relationship with someone for many years under just the conditions you listed above. Develop yourself, improve your relationship skills, and amazing women will fall in love with you and live life on your terms
PS - wouldn't adopt (but have children from a previous relationship). I did get lucky in her not wanting kids, but everything else is very doable by a man with a strong sense of self.
A common misconception, Child support can certainly be half. Read up on the imputed income doctrine - If you forced to take lower paying job, or don't get overtime anymore, it can 80%, 100%, or even a 150% of your income. And they have debtors prison if you can't make payments.
[–]Laatuska 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I seem to remember this being fake, too. I snoped around real fast but came up empty.
[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Doesn't matter. The fact of it is that these scenarios are not a myth. Whether this particular anecdote is factually true or not, it gets the message across.
Of course you're welcome to go on believing that such inequitable scenarios don't ever happen, like some of these for instance. Must all be made up bullshit eh?
[–]nwz123 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for the link. TIL that 'in the household that they live' is just a euphemism for 'spend money meant for my kids on myself/significant other.'
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it would be more fair to say that it may be a somewhat embellished scenario designed to show just how gaping the flaws are in the system. It's effective at that, provided you're not determined to bury head in sand.
Whether the story of it happened or not is irrelevant. The results do happen, and men get completely fucked over by it. I have heard female relatives have similar discussions about their "options", this isn't so far fetched.
What is going on with this subreddit?
[–]getthefuckoutofhere 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
cite?
[–]Eryemil 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
There is no actual evidence to suggest otherwise? You know, that thing that is required to support a positive claim? Or do you believe everything you read on the internet because it says it's true right there on the page.
[–]Doomdoomkittydoom 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Then how would one know this conversation is real?
[–]Eryemil 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Which conversation? Ours or the one in the image?
[–]Doomdoomkittydoom 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]SweetJeebus -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The positive claim is that the conversation is true. If there is no evidence, the default (null hypothesis) is that it is NOT true.
Dumbass.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"The conversation is not true" is also a positive claim. If you think the "not" makes it not a positive claim, just substitute it with a "positive" word that means "not true". The conversation is false. Fabricated. Hypothetical.
In certain contexts it may be useful to assume falsehood/non-existence until evidence is presented. But in this case, it's completely plausible that the conversation is true, so asserting that the conversation is false as a matter of fact is not useful and actually deceptive.
Dingbat. :P ;)
[+]Eryemil -12 points-11 points-10 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I conveniently missed a word. Corrected.
Also, do you kiss your boyfriend with that mouth?
[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It was in response to the condescending, sarcastic tone of your comment. Don't try to turn it around on me, fuckhead.
[+]Eryemil -16 points-15 points-14 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Such anger. No boyfriend then?
I hear if you sit on your hand for fifteen minutes it will feel like someone else is touching your penis. I of course have no need for it—I have a boyfriend.
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Swearing doesn't always mean anger. I swear matter-of-factly. No anger.
You made an idiot of yourself. Don't think you can just troll your way out of it.
[+]Eryemil -13 points-12 points-11 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Then why are you the one being downvoted?
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Right now my last comment is -4. Your last comment is -14.
I'm probably being downvoted because people associate swearing with anger and aggression.
[–]saoran 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"Asks the moron"
[+]serenader -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
meaning you aint got nothing to prove that this exchange didn't happen.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]serenader -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And you Sir sound like a uni-dimensional being.
[–]theozoph 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And now we have a pretend manboobz (yeah, I noticed the "_", idiot) troll.
Seriously, go die in a ditch.
[–]preeta 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
This conversation might not be real but the point is this is what women think and do.
[–]bigchiefhoho 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Seriously? While the system is fucked up and there ARE definite abuses, women on the whole really aren't vicious conniving creatures any more than men are.
[–]2StandardDeviations 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You are dead wrong if you're talking about the real world behavior women in divorce court. The entitlement mentality alone would make them more vicious and conniving.
[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Then why does this subreddit exist?
[–]bigchiefhoho 21 points22 points23 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
To address legal inequities and societal misconceptions? Not to vilify women as a whole, in any case.
[–]Lairo1 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because the women who are vicious conniving creatures could get away with it. If they couldn't they'd just be vicious and really bad at conniving and there would be no need for this Subreddit
[+]preeta -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
women on the whole really aren't vicious conniving creatures any more than men are.
I'm actually starting to wonder if this is true.
For most of my life I've believed that the genders were equally strong, altruistic, innovative, intelligent etc.
But this is obviously false.
Men are stronger, more likely to sacrifice their lives to save others and for ideals, they are more innovative and creative, and have a slightly higher mean IQ. Even after IQ tests were changed to remove gender differences.
Now we find out that women are more vicious and conniving selfish and backstabby
Edit: Once you accept the idea that there is no god, sexual dimorphism exists, and there is no reason the genders should be equal and exactly alike in every measure . . well it's a slippery slope.
[–]secretredfoxx 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
lol i was going to ask how this was taken from r/funny, but now i see why the author thought this would be hilarious
[–]SweetJeebus -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
TIL r/MensRights takes queues from r/atheism
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]rockidol 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
First thing that showed up when I googled the term.
"emotional rape is the theft of someone's higher emotions, such as love, without consent. However, in the case of emotional rape the lack of consent is contained in the fact that the individual is being lied to by the perpetrator. "
It didn't look like a mainstream site so it's probably an obscure term. Either way they appear to be using the term wrongly.
[–]iongantas 14 points15 points16 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
In that case, I'm pretty sure women are far more frequently guilty of emotional rape than men.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]skooma714 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hey why not? They act like it's the end of the world when a man they want doesn't think her having a vagina is enough for instant approval.
[–]iongantas -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I was more just referring to the fact that women tend to engage in emotional warfare more than men.
[–]rockidol 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I don't even know how you would emotionally rape someone.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but fuck if I know where to start.
[–]JustPlainRude 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bend over (emotionally).
"I love you and i don't want to love you, you have stolen my love without consent, you are emotionally raping me" [Sidenote: If it is 'the theft of someones higher emotions' then surely the correct term would be emotional theft, woiuldnt it?]
[–]BinaryShadow 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
So a trans woman is emotionally raping a man for not revealing her past gender?
[–]rockidol -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No. You can still feel higher emotions after that.
[–]crazyex 20 points21 points22 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I know it's just anecdotal evidence, but my ex-wife was goaded and encouraged to file for divorce and given similar advice by a group of harpies on the internet. I have the chat logs and the message board posts.
[–]jay76 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Not to be insensitive, but you have evidence like that? I would love to know how that turned out.
[–]crazyex 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Well, I won primary custody.
[–]1Avion1 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My father was the superior parent, my mother won full custody. It's nice to know your kid/s didn't have to go through that.
Congratulations man, major high five.
[–]x888x 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Not that I doubt you, but would you mind sharing? Reading the OP made my head nearly implode.
[–]crazyex 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I would love to, but I'm trying to maintain some anonymity since she tried to use old reddit posts against me on my old username. It didn't work, but since then I've tried to be circumspect about the details I post.
Sorry.
[–]x888x 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
completely understandable. Best of luck to you!
[–][deleted] 32 points33 points34 points 14 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link
As a married woman, I'd really really like to chime in and say this: we aren't all like that. Not all of us believe in divorce - I don't and neither do many of my friends. We're in this for life and we work through the hard bits. And not every divorced woman tries to screw her husband over in family court, either - some of them divorced their husbands because of things like abuse and adultery, not gold-digging, and some of them were divorced by their husbands. Yes, the system is set up to heavily favour women and to financially drain men, and it's a big problem that needs to be addressed. But using examples like this (more than likely fake) conversation to mistrust all women and refuse to commit to one that you love is ridiculous...it's like swearing off watching all movies for the rest of your life because Transformers sucked arse. There are many other movies that are awesome. The women who screw men over like that are the same...there are many other women who are wonderful, loyal wives who never do that to their husbands.
Also, "emotional rape"? WTF? That can't be a real term!! It's beyond ridiculous!
[–]Vl4d 23 points24 points25 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't think anyone (or at least most) on Mensrights honestly thinks that all women are like this. But like you said, the image is more to show how fucked up the system is.
[–]kragshot 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The point that most of the people who come in here and bitch often miss is that, while we understand that most women are not like this; the legal and social climate in most Western countries makes it possible for any woman to take advantage of these inequities and furthermore, our society (via mass media) encourages them to do so.
The issue at hand and the primary focus of this reddit is that considering the legal and social climate in our society; nearly any man in the Western World exists in economic, mental, and physical safety at the convenience and sufferance of any woman that he encounters. Between inequitable alimony, unfair legislation with child support, and false rape/sexual assault laws/legal assumptions; we as men are blessed that most women do not take advantage of the system to harm us as a significant number of men have already been harmed.
TL;DR
We know that most women are not conniving and scheming harridans out to destroy us, just as most men are not brutal and destructive monsters. However, evil people exist within the world in which we live; that is an undeniable fact of life (though I'm sure some jerk will ask me to cite proof of my statement). The purpose of laws is to protect the rank and file members of society from those particularly bent individuals. A number of the laws as they stand right now allow bent or otherwise morally-damaged women to take advantage of men to their eventual detriment. Just as historical feminists worked to take down similar laws that allowed broken men in the past to harm women; we want to see similarly framed laws taken down that bent women can use to currently harm men.
Why is that so fucking hard for some people to understand?
[–]SocialWorkerEmily 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree. As a human being, I do not believe in treating other human beings this way. It is unfair to take advantage of men like this. I, for one, know I would not behave this way.
As a married woman, I'd really really like to chime in and say this: we aren't all like that.
I think that although it is only a minority that do this, it has scared lots of people away from marriage in a similar way that lots of people don't allow their children to play outside for fear of them being kidnapped. (Also I think the majority of women that do this are the sort of women that you see on 'the real housewives')
Even though it doesnt happen in the vast majority of cases the fact that it does happen is very scary, it is basically saying "If you try to start a new family you will still be tethered to your old one, and your new wife will suffer for it. And if you get divorced a second time, your wallet will be so raped that you will only have a very basic quality of life" Not only does that put men off the idea of [re]marriage, it also puts women off forming relationships with divorced men, because not a lot of people would pay for their husband's ex wife's kid.
The story is probably fake, but the scary thing is that it could happen to someone unfortunate enough, and lots of people just don't see the need to take that risk. I think you have a lot of good points, and you said that you/your friends weren't a bunch of gold-diggers, which i believe, there is probably another group of friends somewhere else that is the exact opposite of that. I think you have made some good and valid points though, especially with this quote:
The women who screw men over like that are the same...there are many other women who are wonderful, loyal wives who never do that to their husbands.
[–]BinaryShadow 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, we know not all women are like that. The point is that every woman is given a loaded gun to point at the head of their husband the entire marriage. Do all women choose to pull the trigger? No. A little dramatic, but you get the point.
[–]skooma714 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'd really really like to chime in and say this: we aren't all like that.
Problem is, you all look alike. I can't tell you apart until it's far too late. By the time she springs the trap the only way out is if she rear-ends a semi at full speed.
[–]s0nicfreak 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's more like swearing off of movies because it's getting very hard to find one that doesn't suck, and you've watched many people in the world be suckered into paying to see a movie only to have it completely blow.
I'm a woman that refused to marry my husband unless he signed a prenup that protected him in the rare chance we divorce, but I have to admit, there are way more women that want to take advantage of the unfair-to-men system than that don't out there.
[–]Hamakua 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
As a married woman, I'd really really like to chime in and say this: we aren't all like that. Not all of us believe in divorce - I don't and neither do many of my friends. We're in this for life and we work through the hard bits.
Nearly all the couples on their wedding day held the same views as yourself.
And not every divorced woman tries to screw her husband over in family court, either - some of them divorced their husbands because of things like abuse and adultery, not gold-digging, and some of them were divorced by their husbands. Yes, the system is set up to heavily favour women and to financially drain men, and it's a big problem that needs to be addressed. But using examples like this (more than likely fake) conversation to mistrust all women and refuse to commit to one that you love is ridiculous...it's like swearing off watching all movies for the rest of your life because Transformers sucked arse.
If I watch a bad movie the worst I lose is the time I invested into that specific movie and maybe the money I paid for it. Marriage is not like that and this analogy sucks.
There are many other movies that are awesome. The women who screw men over like that are the same...
No, it's not, your analogy still sucks. A bad move doesn't cripple your finances for life.
there are many other women who are wonderful, loyal wives who never do that to their husbands.
Very few women on their wedding day think of themselves as anything but devoted, loving, loyal and "forever". Reality however differs from the one day fantasy.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
we aren't all like that.
The link: hey, you're pretty much preaching to the choir. I agreed with basically everything there. Mind you, I'm not a feminist; never felt the need to apply that label when I'm perfectly able to support equality without it.
And not every divorced woman tries to screw her husband over in family court
Re the link: this issue of mistrust goes both ways. Not all men are great, either. There's no guarantee that the sweet guy smiling at you over dinner won't one day ruin your life. Relationships are a risk. Love is a risk. Trusting someone is a gamble, whether you are trusting a woman or a man. That doesn't mean that there's no point trying, or that you should look at people and think "guilty until proven innocent".
I dunno, after reading your links, I still stand by what I said earlier (well, except the weak analogy...it was the best I could come up with on the fly!). Relationship problems aren't all one-sided, and choosing to mistrust an entire gender - half the population - because of the crappy behaviour of the crappy ones seems like a waste of time.
[–]theozoph 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
I think what Hamakua was getting at, is that while very few women are genuine sociopaths such as the one portrayed in the comic, the law is such that those who are, can legally ruin a man's life.
Even if you aren't mentally insane, any man who has been made aware of the power you wield over him is going to be more than a little wary of what you legally could do with it.
To illustrate this better, let's make an analogy : let's say that the Law stipulates that anytime a lone woman voluntarily enters a man's habitation, she cannot file a rape accusation if sexual intercourse takes place. By entering, alone and of her own free will, a man's private residence, she is legally agreeing to have sex with him, even against her will.
Now, men could say "Come on, of course I won't rape you. I want you to love me for who I am, and I am not a monster. Not all men are rapists, you know." But still, there would be no consequences if he came back on his word.
Would you ever enter another man's home again?
Well, anytime a man enters a modern marriage, he risks losing his financial autonomy, his children, and ultimately his family. All legally, with very little in the way of recourse. All it takes is a woman's willingness to put her desires, before his needs.
Does that make the issue clearer?
[–]2StandardDeviations 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Great analogy. Here is my version...would you CDgirl be as open to marrying a guy in a country where it was legal for him to beat his wife or murder her if he suspected cheating? A place where he would almost automaticly be awarded custody of the kids? In a place where these kinds of things were in fact extremely common in failing marriages (regardless of how nice the guy seemed at first)? Or would she say...wow, I love him, but I don't feel like subjecting myself to these barbaric laws?
[–]theozoph 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Good one too.
This is pretty good. Saved.
[–]Hamakua -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Illustrated far better than I could.
[–]Hamakua 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
Re the link: this issue of mistrust goes both ways. Not all men are great, either. There's no guarantee that the sweet guy smiling at you over dinner won't one day ruin your life.
Yes, but you are debating Marriage vs. No Marriage. A guy cant screw you over if he doesn't marry you, so why fight for against a theoretically "win win" situation? (I have a complete response/answer to any direction an answer to this question can go, I would say it is rhetorical, but there are multiple opinions, all of them faulty using evidence from today.) Your position is "it is ok to risk marriage because men behave badly too" when the people you are addressing are taking the position of "No, don't want marriage".
"We shouldn't go to war because a lot of men die"
"Women die too in war, and suffer too,"
"That doesn't mean we should go to war." -which is what you imply
As a matter of fact, upon reflection, you don't give any real good reason for getting married, only a bunch of anecdotal testimony that not all women will divorce the men they marry, and those who do, not all of them had bad reasons for doing so.
You almost got me there!
I dunno, after reading your links, I still stand by what I said earlier (well, except the weak analogy...it was the best I could come up with on the fly!). Relationship problems aren't all one-sided,
Not all relationships are marriage. Don't conflate the two.
and choosing to mistrust an entire gender - half the population - because of the crappy behavior of the crappy ones seems like a waste of time.
One thing that is a fact. Despite half of marriages ending in divorce, and vast majority of marriages are between a man and a woman, women are filing 70% (the vast majority) of no-fault divorces.
This disparity puts the burden of proof on your end to as why "marriage" is worth it when there is very little (if anything) to gain for men.
Connected to my "pages of rebuttal responses". Why are you married instead of just being perpetually in a state of exclusivity relationship-wise? One could argue a couple is stronger if they stay together over the years without any legal or societal "pressure" (doesn't really exist anymore) to do so?
Other than the marginal tax break, what do you see as the purpose of marriage today?
[edit] +1 upvote for taking the time to address, thanks.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I am married because I didn't want to simply be a girlfriend for the rest of my life. I believe that if a couple is genuinely committed to one another, making it public and official by getting married is the logical next step. It wasn't about tax benefits or any of that stuff...it was about wanting to be his wife.
And while one could argue that a couple is stronger if they stay together without legal pressure to do so, statistics don't bear this out. Cohabiting couples break up at a higher rate than married couples, and if they do eventually marry they divorce at a higher rate than couples who didn't cohabit. If they truly were stronger, this would not be the case.
[–]Hamakua -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for the response!
Some in Hawaii believe that if you take two petals of the Plumeria flower, one by a man, the other by a woman, and join them end to end so it looks like a heart, "you are married".
I have seen the studies you have referred to and am not discounting them. I also am aware that a portion of the "divorce rate" is made up by multiple offenders, and as the number of divorces for an individual goes up, so do the chances. (so 1 time first time marriages have a chance closer to 60/40).
There are scores of socioeconomic check-boxes that will improve or hinder your chances at staying married (this is side-stepping unhappy marriages that stay intact).
You answered my question honestly and I am not surprised by your reasons or justification. But here is the thing.
It wasn't about tax benefits or any of that stuff...it was about wanting to be his wife.
What happens when you don't want to be anymore? And further, because of the avenues available to you to "rectify" not wanting to be anymore, what's so special about being married other than "to be his wife"?
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
100% of divorce are caused by marriage.
[–]spiral-staircase 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
What you've said here is obvious. I'm sorry but this scenario happens more than you'd like to admit and your appeal to emotion seems to have gotten the best of r/MR.
Over 2/3rds of divorces are initiated by women. It's close to 70%. Where are these supposedly "supportive" wives?
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I see a few problems with your statement here.
This implies that these women are initiating divorces simply because they have tired of their spouse or because they want to take him to the cleaners. There are a lot of other reasons for divorce that are not actually the woman's fault. As I said, women initiate divorces because they are abused or because they were cheated on sometimes...it's not always because she's a greedy beeyatch or because she has some strange on the side that she's gonna shack up with.
Less than half of all marriages end in divorce. Out of 100 couples, let's say 48 get divorced. Of those 48, let's say 32 were initiated by the woman - that gives us the 2/3 figure you stated. Of those 32, many of them are NOT divorcing because they want money. Let's say that half of them are divorcing because they want to screw the man over and take his stuff, and the other half for other reasons. So we're left with 16 women out of the initial 100 who are gold-diggers. That means that the other 84 are not.
[–]ConfirmedCynic 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Are you implying that the majority of divorces are initiated because the man in the relationship is abusive?
I remember reading somewhere that actual physical abuse accounts for about 4% of divorce cases.
Although lately feminists have been trying to broaden the definition of abuse to the point where even looking crossed-eyed at a wife would count.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
No, I don't think that's what she's saying. I think she is saying that apart from divorcing their husbands to get money, there are other reasons that a women would divorce, including, but not exclusively, abuse. Another reasons she cited was cheating, but of course there are many reasons.
Whether or not this point is relevant is another matter.
[–]ConfirmedCynic 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Well, of course there are, such as boredom or dissatisfaction with their lives. The problem is that when the going gets a little tough (flames of passion have been replaced with two or three demanding young kids), there's a substantial chance the woman will blame her husband and bail rather than rising to the challenge. Men are becoming increasingly aware of this.
I think one of the lines in the little dialogue is telling, even if it's been made up. "I do feel like he promised me happiness". Pure transference of her own responsibility onto him.
I'm not even disagreeing with you on that. My original point lay with when you said
because that was not what she was saying. I just don't like it when people jump on buzzwords and make statements like that, when they're not true. For example, if a feminist is arguing with someone about, say, whether dressing a certain way can cause rape, they might say "You just want to control the way women dress/you're taking part in the victim blaming culture!". Now, if the other person hadn't said anything about actually controlling the way women dress or anything against rape victims, then this is an emotional outburst with little to no basis in truth.
I didn't mean any harm by it; I don't even think the points she's making are entirely relevant, I'm just making sure that what she said is understood, and hoping to clear up any misunderstanding.
Not at all! I've seen many women imply such a thing, and I think it's a load of manure. But it does happen and sometimes it's why the divorce took place. That's all I meant.
Same thing with the definition of rape.
[–]chavelah -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I keep hearing this statistic cited. Yes, women are more likely to be the first to file papers. This does NOT mean that women are sneaking out of their happy homes en masse to file a surprise divorce for no good reason. In our society, we tend to get the marriage license after we've already formed a household, and file the divorce papers after the household is already kaput.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I agree, that IS a problem. But it seems to me that simply refusing to marry isn't a good solution...it's rather like slapping a bandaid on a broken leg rather than splinting the darn thing. Wouldn't it be better if men did what women did when they didn't like the way men legally got to do whatever they wanted to their wives, and march in the streets until lawmakers listen up? It makes more sense to me for men to work together to change the laws and make them more fair and equitable instead. These unfair laws are the real problem.
[–]ConfirmedCynic 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thus the mens rights movement. In the mean time, why should men stick their heads into a legal noose?
[–]ConfirmedCynic 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The problem is that the consequences of marrying a woman that decides on this path are a lot greater than watching a lousy movie and regretting it.
Would you walk into a minefield because "not all patches of ground there are like that"?
[–]jay76 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I like what you've said, I would just add that isn't about whether all women are crazy (we know they aren't), it's about how legally vulnerable men are today.
It's a bit like that saying "all men are rapists until proven otherwise" that gets touted out by some women. They are talking about their own vulnerability, not that they believe every man is a rapist. Yes, they word it incredibly badly (in an unneccesarily accusatory tone), but I don't think they believe every man is a rapist (although I'm sure some extremists do).
In short, both men and women as groups are made up of diverse individuals. Both sides seek to protect themselves against a generalised "enemy", rather than addressing the individual nutjobs. To me, this is why some subreddits are full of anger.
Well said. : )
[–]a1icey 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
don't believe in divorce? there's a middle ground here. some really good women are given no choice. i've got news for you honey, you can ruin more lives staying married half the time.
don't believe in divorce?
By that I mean that divorce is not an option for us. Neither of us came into our marriage thinking that we'd get a divorce if things didn't work out - we got married determined to make it work come hell or high water. As time has gone by and life has thrown some hella big lemons at us, we've gotten stronger, because instead of festering in resentment we have worked things out and made each other a priority. It can be done.
you can ruin more lives staying married half the time.
Half the time? I don't agree. Not all marriages that end in divorce actually need to. There are good reasons sometimes, like abuse and cheating. But there are other reasons too...like "we fell out of love". That doesn't just magically happen to a couple - it happens when they drop the ball and don't bother to pick it up again. Sometimes marriage is work; it requires patience, understanding, forgiveness, acceptance, and a willingness to talk honestly with one another. When people don't bother to do that, they drift apart, and if they would just "man up" and do the hard work their marriage would be a success.
Also, sometimes people marry someone they know darn well they shouldn't be marrying. If you use your brain and don't get yourself shackled to someone you know is bad for you, lives won't be ruined.
[–]a1icey 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
half the time, once the marriage breaks down.*
look, realistically, a large number of people have personality disorders or substance abuse problems. i'd say at least one quarter of americans have one or the other or both. i don't see why anyone is required to stay married to someone when they have a personality disorder or substance abuse problem.
predictably everyone is going to complain that substance abuse is not your fault. well, if the substance abuse is because of an underlying problem that you can solve, that's a different story.
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
we aren't all like that Not all women are like that™
we aren't all like that
Not all women are like that™
downvoted
[–]fondueguy 14 points15 points16 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's disgusting.
If you do marry, make sure your not the only one working. The system is designed for her to take advantage of you in marriage and in divorce.
[–]Wiebelhaus 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think this is real.
[–]rockidol 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This has to be fake. I mean she just decides to divorce him in the span of a few posts over him feeling a little emotionally distant. Not believable.
[–]Arkeilam 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Those three women can all die in hell.
[–]ss_camaro 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
'nuff said: http://www.reddit.com/r/marriagestrike/
I really hope this isn't real but if it is thats disgusting. The best way to avoid this is always marry to right person and get a vasectomy.
[–]etherreal 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why not to get married to crazy.
FTFY
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm not surprised. Just look at how much at Scandinavian model wife of Tiger Woods got from the divorce ($750 million). She did absolutely nothing to earn that amount of money. It's things like these that encourage vanity from women. Dress pretty, put lots of makeup that completely changes your face, maintain your body then find a rich husband. If you feel like you want out, just get divorced and still get alimony and custody of the kids (which TW's wife did).
[–]ConfirmedCynic 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, and yet when a celebrity like Britney Spears or Avril Lavigne divorces her husband, what does the ex-husband get? Pretty much squat, relatively.
As for child support, it's ridiculous the way the precious kiddies are deemed too delicate to be able to survive on less than $10,000 a month. You just know that money isn't going to be spent by Cupcake on Junior, either. He pays, she has no accountability. It's the core of modern feminism.
This system is totally biased.
[–]KMFCM 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
actually, you kinda mentioned one of few cases where the husband was not COMPLETELY fucked over in a divorce. Kevin Federline got his kids, and gets alimony from Britney. . . .granted, he's flat broke other than that.
There's another rare case. Remember that lady that wrote How Stella Got Her Groove Back, about how she met her husband? The guy turned out to be gay. They got divorced and HE gets alimony.
Yeah.
Seriously.
Your average man will NOT be that lucky though.
[–]BinaryShadow 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I used the entire Britney divorce as a study against my own friends and family. THey all called him a loser and couldnt' believe he got some of her money. This is nothing new for most men who think about the divorce courts being stacked against them, but only the genders reversed. Sexism is a pretty nasty disease in our culture.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Spending your time and money on yourself is good advice regardless of circumstances.
[–]A_Nihilist 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Surprisingly accurate insight from Umadbros.
[–]skier69 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
this is more spirit-crushing than funny.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]JrMint 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Wrap it up or fight like hell!
And if she refuses, be an adult and say no thanks and walk away from the pussy.
[–]morethanpretty 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hopefully you're that strong after this incident.
[–]GamerLioness -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Great to know that one woman apparently is the same as "many" other women. By your logic, I could say that "many" men are misogynistic based off of what I find on this subreddit. But no, I realize that this is only one place on the Internet, and many other redditors aren't total woman-blaming assholes.
Married man here.. how about not fucking and marrying every woman you meet? Jesus.. men that bitch about child support and shit make me laugh my ass off. You stuck your dick in it without wrapping it up, fucking deal with it. Is child support bullshit? Absolutely. But everyone knows a kid could result from fucking.. so why the fuck do people still jump in, cock flying about like it has arms and legs.
Also, women that use men as easy money machines thanks to a bullshit system, fuck you. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you.
Good enough reason to get a prenup.
[–]junkeee999 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Three bitches in a made up internet conversation do not equal a reason not to get married.
eh, it's certainly not the ONLY reason.
[–]drrevevans 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As far as family law goes, much of the advice given was incorrect.
[–]KMFCM 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
everyone that says this is fake, has rose colored glasses on
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm never getting married. Many of my friends and colleagues aren't either. My nephew had a daughter with his girlfriend. He too is never getting married.
This is the way forward my friends. Protect yourself, protect your assets, do not get married.
[+]Ishmael999 -9 points-8 points-7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So, /r/MensRights have moved on from posting strawmen about homeless people to posting fake conversations by evil women.
Look, I get that Alimony is unfairly given out. I get that child support needs reform. But this is so blatantly made-up that only your wanting it to be true could possibly explain your believing it.
Ha, ha. Most dead on accurate negatively rated post I've read in a while.
[–]Ishmael999 -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
To be fair, it's not nearly as negative as most of my comments on this subreddit.
Edit: And hilariously, even this comment gets downvoted. I swear this subreddit parodies itself.
[–]Darkling5499 -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
sign a prenup.
[–]TheRealMrsThomas -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If this is a true story, I honestly can't believe I just read that... Its sickening to say the least.
Fucking cunts.
[–]kidborneo -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
dont even cohabitat.
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[–]a1icey 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]a1icey 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]fondueguy 14 points15 points16 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Wiebelhaus 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]rockidol 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Arkeilam 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ss_camaro 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]etherreal 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]ConfirmedCynic 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]KMFCM 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]BinaryShadow 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]A_Nihilist 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]skier69 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]JrMint 11 points12 points13 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]morethanpretty 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]GamerLioness -3 points-2 points-1 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]junkeee999 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]KMFCM 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]drrevevans 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KMFCM 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Ishmael999 -9 points-8 points-7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]junkeee999 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Ishmael999 -3 points-2 points-1 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Darkling5499 -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]TheRealMrsThomas -4 points-3 points-2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]kidborneo -5 points-4 points-3 points (0 children) | Copy Link