The Facts on the Ground: What is Really Going On?

Kondijote · 2022-04-02T08:40:24+00:00

I don’t think there’s much of a difference among developed countries regarding the sexual marketplace. Most of the issues that are discussed in this forum stem from modernity, i.e. highly advanced societies that have managed to fulfill the basic needs of their inhabitants. In Japan there’s also a rise in male sexlessness and they even have a phenomenon called “hikikomori” (men who recluse themselves in their homes and avoid any contact with society). In fact, Western media has been addressing these Japanese social phenomena for many years, without realizing that they have the same issues at home.

DaMilan · 2022-04-02T11:05:40+00:00

So what is your overall take on what is happening in the SMP today?

The biggest thing is definitly, that it is easier beeing single than it was 80 years ago. This benefits almost everyone, but especially women. I don't get why so many conservatives lament the declining rate of marriages and relationships. Per revealed preference, beeing single is to most of those people better than beeing in a relationship, that seems like an obvious win to me.

But there are other things going on as well:

- A cultural change where marriage is no longer about child rearing and division of labour but about shared values, lifestyle and sexual compatibility (Another good change if you ask me!)

-Rising (mostly) female standards through OLD, social Media and digital culture (Netflix, "The Bachelor", E-Boys) This is mostly not a benefit for women though, a point most people have not yet internalized

Overrated as causes, as in yes, definitly contributing, but not by much are video games, porn, financial/educational Hypergamy, the Jezbel Brand of "You go Girl" and later financial independece.

Are they likely to continue, or will some new equilibrium set in to balance things out?

This is the No. 1 question I think about of all PPD topics. Only time will tell, there are arguments for either side. But we should definitly watch the trends. Wasn't there a study posted a few weeks ago about 60% of male UK Students beeing functionally sexless? Though shit. No wonder Jordan Peterson is so popular, he is filling a niche. And while I don't like him, there are obviously worse persons/politics to fill the niche of sexually unsuccesfull males who feel disillusionised by modern society

Try to be specific to a given SMP, if appropriate, or to sum up the national dynamics as accurately as you can.

Some things which get debated around here really seem to happen only in a fiter bubble/in specific demographics.

Branch Swinging = Lower Class

Women going for bad boy thugs = Lower class

Women becoming single Mothers after beeing pumped and dumped by obviusly unreliable guys/out of their league guys = lower class

"Nice Guy" Phenomena = Young middle class males

Betabuxxs (the "hard" variant) = Socially inept/naive/unattractive males, mostly middle class who don't want to accept that "It's over" to borrow incel terminology

Simps = Socially inept/naive/unattractive males, mostly middle class who don't want to accept that "It's over" to borrow incel terminology

Financial/educational Hypergamy = UMC/Upper class

PPD = Nerds with high verbal intelligence

Guitar-Master9891 · 2022-04-02T14:23:20+00:00

No liquidity in the market place. Women withold sex for too long in the initial stages, men think she's working the numbers because she is hypergamous. Man moves on because he doesn't want to be a simp for too long despite being genuine, women think man is low effort. When there is no liquidity in the market place everything crashes.

kyjolski · 2022-04-02T09:19:41+00:00

People focus more on themselves and don't care about getting into relationships as much, and those that want to do it eventually are postponing it to later.

Casual and hedonism is more widely accepted.

Feminism and all of the powers focused on empowering women are nurturing a philosophy of 'girl, you don't need no man'.

Women are vastly overvaluing themselves due to social media, popular culture and simps. They are a developing an 'all or nothing' mentality towards sex, relationships.

Men are more disinterested in participating in the sexual rat race due to frustration, an uneven playing field and other factors, i.e. already dealing with a rat race in their professional life.

There is also a crisis of masculinity - a lot of men don't know how to attract women or are unable to navigate what is expected/okay and what is 'toxic masculinity'. The advice given to men by outlets ran or influenced by women is counterproductive to their success in dating. Lots of single mothers raising sons that never have a male role model to look up to.

All of this will continue until shit hits the fan or it's just accepted as a new norm and no one will care.

/edit Expanded a bit.

majani · 2022-04-02T13:41:35+00:00

The truth on the ground is that the biggest influence on the SMP is banned from discussion here

Visible-Doughnut-782 · 2022-04-02T10:14:42+00:00

Men will continue to be more sexually and socially isolated.

This is often attributed to the raise in OLD and the huge disparity between male and female users. While this is undoubtedly a massive factor I also think as porn becomes ever more mainstream so does the practical desire to seek out real life sexual partners. There is a narrative that men will “sleep with anything” but the mainstream accessibility of porn has given a lot of men unrealistic standards in the same way social social media has for Woman. I’m not saying that most virgins aren’t getting laid because they expect a partner with porn star looks. Just that the instant gratification of porn means a lot of men no longer feel the “dating” struggle is actually worth it. I think this will reach critical mass when true VR Porn becomes a thing. Most men will simply give up on trying to obtain sex in the real world if and when sex is indistinguishable in the virtual world.
This will likely cause a huge shift in the current balance of sexual dynamics as the “average woman” will no longer have the huge amount of sexual options they currently do.

mextreme10 · 2022-04-02T16:09:57+00:00

I agree with the point there is definitely a lot of difference depending where you’re at and the type of people it attracts, even just your circumstances.

Go to Manhattan, everyone is very materialistic and status oriented. Women have also been commercialized indirectly through the promoter based club scene. This probably the extreme of the progression of sexual marketplace. Lack of educated men also leads to women having a hard time finding LTRs. Encouraged casual sex through later in life.

Go to midwest people getting married as virgins at 20 in college. As old school as it gets.

Go rural where many young people especially women move out the men that are left are going to have a really hard time. Probably one or two local bars everyone meets at or through family.

Go to Miami it’s a totally different demographic and heavily latinized culture. Still has part of the club culture seen in NYC but also totally different.

Even the race of your community matters a lot and totally changes the landscape of dating. There is a lot of heat towards black men dating white women, which leaves not enough black for the black women. A lot more financial strain on relationships.

Go to San Francisco where tech workers have skewed it so far male it can be almost impossible even with the super high paying careers.

All I’m saying is these debates are really hard when even just the US is so massive and everyone is in totally different scenarios.

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-04-02T12:19:05+00:00

Gen Z has higher levels of narcissism and lower empathy compared to previous generations. This, combined with higher availability from the internet makes for a dating nightmare. Everyone believes they deserve something more, and that's why there's so much sexlessness recently.

Gigamon2014 · 2022-04-02T13:45:17+00:00

Communicative capability among millennials and generation Zers had largely degraded. Said age groups are also drinking less (possibly a good a thing). Said age groups are also far less financially stable. This is primarily the reason why secual frequency and dating have declined.

I think all the data makes it perfectly clear what is "happening on the ground" and I don't know why so many contort themselves into denying reality.

The only phenomena I think has less awareness is female sexual isolation. I don't think society has come to terms that there are a fuckload of female demographics who've been completely left out in the cold and who are seeing the same decline in both sex and relationships as men are.

sarkington · 2022-04-02T15:24:48+00:00

The internet and economics is what’s going on

All tech causes changes. It would be silly to expect otherwise

CocoBabeNYC · 2022-04-02T14:03:12+00:00

Here is what I see. There are a lot of women who can find men without a problem. Their biggest problem is not finding men who are willing to be with them, their problem is finding men who are normal and confident.

Men on the other hand seem to have a lot of problems finding women period. Having any choice.

So you tell me, in this scenario what is to be done and who is at fault? Men can harp on and on that women have ridiculous and unrealistic standards and it's their fault and society's fault and Obamas fault, whatever. But the reality is if women don't find you particularly attractive it's not their responsibility to fuck you without being attracted to you. It's your responsibility to craft yourself into an attractive male who is fuckable.

So what is the issue you ask? I think men have lost their fierceness. If you are alive today, you are the product of millions of years of genetic evolution. If you are alive today, your ancestors likely killed sabertooth tigers, held a sword and killed another man. Some of them may have landed on Omaha beach or Iwo Jima or fought at Stalingrad. But their offspring can't even say hi to a girl without shitting their pants.

The only way this will be fixed is if men face their fears and stop apologizing for being men. Take pride in themselves, find their balls and be okay with being men. That's all women want anyway. They just want a man who doesn't apologize for being a man.

wtknight · 2022-04-02T14:28:10+00:00

People aren't as social as they were in the past. Young men make minimal effort to attract women and improve themselves, as there are plenty of solitary distractions these days that compete with the pleasure of being with a woman. Women's standards are likely higher than in the past due to the influence of social media, too, and the increased acceptance of situations like FWBs where one higher value man may be a "friend" for multiple women, while those women have only one FWB themselves (soft harem). Both sides really are at fault here.

I don't think that demographics make much difference except that SMPs where there are more men than women are better for men, and SMPs where there are more women than men are better for women.

An SMP where there are way more educated women than educated men is likely to be better for men, too. However, in past posts on this sub I've seen more educated women seeming to be accepting that their partner might have a trades background now compared to in the past. So I think that women are beginning to adjust to this new reality where many men aren't going to be as formally educated as they are, and that what these men do for careers is fine so long as these men are making some money and have some ambition.

Euphemia006 · 2022-04-02T18:47:58+00:00

Many Men do not want to listen to what women have to say. They do not want to understand them and their needs. They refuse to understand that women have the right to have their standards and make the choice they want. They believe all women are the same. Many women do not want to listen to what men have to say. They do not want to understand men and their needs. They refuse to understand that men have also the right to have standards and make the choice they want. They believe all men are the same. In a nutshell, toxic men and women who refuse to see things from the opposite gender perspective; refuse to actually understand that all members of the oppisite gender are not the same.

Lakeyute · 2022-04-02T10:32:07+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DisturbedBurger · 2022-04-02T17:10:10+00:00

Decades ago nobody had as much access to potential partners as we do now resulting in a priority shift from acquiring a spouse to sexual exploration and satisfaction. I attribute this to a gargantuan increase in selection due to the metaverse's networking potential.

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2022-04-02T22:32:05+00:00

From the root cause to the tip of the iceberg.

Eduaction is aligned to cater to girls strength. From teaching methods over sitting still and obey over punishment of typical masculine behaviour to untrain them leading to better overall grades for girls. Mix in some bias of the mostly female teachers and then you see girls outcompeting boys.

This leads to an extreme gap in university. Aside from STEM (many courses here are male dominated because men tend to do well in subjects they are actually interested in) women getting here also the extreme upper hand.

This leads to the phenomenon that young girls are outearning young men because they get this almost handed to them compared to boys. This is the main line of a typical life with the surrounding of feminism that constantly tells myths how women are victims of discrimination and men are always bad and men have to learn how to behave and obviously only bahviour catering for women is approved.

Now women growing up in such environment tend to think that they are better and prettier than they actually are and such thinking they deserve better than they actually do. Couple this that many boys are in constant exposure of having their identity attacked or even deformed because any natural display of masculinity from early age is severly punished in school or avoided through overly caring helicopter mothers. Many of such boys and young men are actually decently attractive but settle for some of the mentioned women fuelling the death machine even more because they grew up with wrong values regarding their identity.

Now we have such a dead end here. Some men get their shit together more or less later but refuse the effort to attract women just because there are many women from the 3-5 range thinking they are 6-8 and such demanding the men to better themselves to be worthy of them and put in the effort to make the monkey dance for them.

On the other side you have women basically got their stable life handed to them (graduating from university is easy as fuck, getting into is hard, being promoted past early stage is also easy in white collar jobs but getting their is hard) because of the things i mentioned above. Mix in their fake appearance they achieve with make up, shape wear and filtered photos they stay single with the hamstering of "better be single than with someone (i think) is beneath me".

Bonus paragraph: The overrepresented myths and cherrypicked statistics about violence, rape and pay gap etc. in the media is causing many neurotic reactions from women who get exposed to them constantly. Fueling this even more.

EDIT: Obviously this doesn't mean that it's impossible for men to be good and succesful. But society wide phenomenons are never 0 or 100%. Even in the 60' had women in very powerful positions.

ruboyuri · 2022-04-03T18:44:34+00:00

People get married and have kids less and later, due to a combination of social and economic factors

Title	The Facts on the Ground: What is Really Going On?
Author	WilliamWyattD
Upvotes	8
Comments	69
Date	April 2, 2022 7:57 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/tudn0d/the_facts_on_the_ground_what_is_really_going_on/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-facts-on-the-ground-what-is-really-going-on.1108987 https://theredarchive.com/post/1108987

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