Q4A: Do you believe some people shouldn’t bother trying even basic general improvements? Why?

TotalTravesty · 2022-08-30T21:16:11+00:00

“Don’t bother trying” is quitter/loser talk. Or the talk of someone who isn’t as interested in the thing they’re “trying” as they pretend they are.

Not all dreams can come true but even an incremental improvement puts you in a better place than before the improvement. If you try to make it to the NBA but only wind up in good physical conditioning and a beast at pick-up games, it’s better than being lazy on the couch playing 2K because you never bothered going to the gym.

pro-frog · 2022-08-30T21:21:47+00:00

The thing is, if you do it right, improvements to your chances in the dating world also lead to improvements in your general life. The whole idea is to become a better person, or at least show off a better side of yourself to the world. That's positive change even if it ultimately doesn't lead to a long-term relationship.

If improving your chances in the dating world requires making significant sacrifices to your general life - having an eating disorder, going to bars as a recovering alcoholic, putting aside your kids' needs - those changes aren't healthy or sustainable.

So yes - improving your chances of dating success should always be worth doing, because they should also just improve your life. If they don't improve your life, do something else.

NockerJoe · 2022-08-30T21:26:52+00:00

Theres a big difference between them doing it for a vague good feeling and them doing it because they want a relarionship and this is the best way forward. Its good to drink water every day and I could say if you want a GF you need to get your 8 cups in but that doesn't mean it'll actually work besides you just being better hydrated.

I've met more than a few women that makeup can't really help for because they were in really bad shape and a few men who had active social lives but zero charisma and conversation skills. Generic feel good advice is absolutley not what these people need and its not what works for them if they did improve. They mostly just needed to drop weight and learn game, and usually both at once, and plastering over it with some lipstick and a couple of aqaintances is absolutley not the same thing.

We have a serious problem aa a culture where if a solution to a problem is unpalatable for one reason or another it can't be used. Our solutions need to sound good to everybody even when the problem affects one person who's usually got to hear hard shit a lot of people may take offense to, including them.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-08-30T21:09:54+00:00

You can always increase your chances. They just might still not be that good after an increase. They're always beneficial, but you may not always think they're worth the bother.

DivineDaedra · 2022-08-30T21:20:24+00:00

I think anyone who has room to improve in terms of how they take care of and present themselves will always be better off for doing so.

Eating healthier will help with more than just aesthetic physique—in can help with your skin, breath, teeth, mental health, and energy.

Cosmetics, extra workouts (within reason) and fashion can make you feel more confident, which can help motivate you in multiple areas of life.

While having some friends is extremely important to meeting social needs and gaining more organically over time is very rarely a bad thing, rewards diminish once you have a core group you tend to stick with.

So no, I don’t think anyone should just not bother with self improvement. Everyone has ways they can improve and if nothing else they should be doing it for themselves.

Head-Language-2977 · 2022-08-30T21:41:11+00:00

If a person is only attracted to 10s, then it’s a lost cause and they shouldn’t bother with any self improvement. However, any degree of self improvement will make a person more attractive to a much greater percentage of their target group and will improve their chances of finding a suitable partner (as long as their expectations are realistic).

Self improvement from a 4 to a 6 will open many more doors of dating opportunity (quantity) but realistically most of us will eventually hit a ceiling and still won’t be able to get models. Work hard but still be realistic with your potential and try to accept that average isn’t bad.

tired_hillbilly · 2022-08-30T21:42:37+00:00

"Beneficial" is in the eye of the beholder. Lets take the "extra platonic relationships" example further.

Having more friends seems like it couldn't be a bad thing. But if you're naturally really introverted, maintaining all these relationships will be really extremely taxing mentally. Take away the possibility of these platonic relationships leading to a romantic relationship, and they may not be worth it.

There's also diminishing returns; the more friends you have, the less time you can spend with each.

southern_dilettante · 2022-08-30T22:26:28+00:00

Sometimes, you can only increase your chances very little with a huge cost. For these guys, yea, the lemon isn't really worth the squeeze and "why even try" is a totally valid conclusion.

2022-08-30T21:20:13+00:00

Growth is always beneficial.

odd_cloud · 2022-08-30T22:06:30+00:00

Yes, some unchangeable characteristics are important for attraction. If someone has IQ of 70, would you advise that person to try improve in a hope of applying to a uni?

Financial_Leave4411 · 2022-08-30T21:30:01+00:00

You shouldn’t improve yourself for someone else. You should be doing it for you; because you want to be in better shape or more secure in your finances etc. Stop putting dating and especially sex on a pedestal. If you don’t want to improve yourself then don’t.

tinasnow-poty · 2022-08-30T22:02:45+00:00

I don’t understand why these guys don’t want it for themselves outside of a relationship. Make up is a bit different, because not every one likes wearing it, but being clean and presentable feels good. I sure as heck feel good when I shower and dress for the day instead of staying in my pyjamas half the day. I feel good when I hang out with my friends, even if I don’t meet someone whilst doing so. Why are they so focused on dating that these things aren’t attractive to themselves? Yes it sucks if you go gym and don’t get more attention, but at least now you’re fitter and healthier. Isn’t there value in that? How can you argue against having more (good) friends?

hungrychick404 · 2022-08-30T21:36:40+00:00

Everyone can always have a chance. Where did these people with no hope of getting a partner come from? Parents who are probably not the best looking either and who had stuff in common with each other and bonded enough to either get married or hook up.

A serial killer or something won’t be helped with cosmetics though. They’re just undateable.

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StarchRunner · 2022-08-30T21:43:36+00:00

There is honestly more to life than finding someone. Finding someone is hollywood fantasy, there is no happily ever after, you're just fulfilling programming like "eat", "sleep", "piss", "shit", "shower". The dopamine hits are nice but fade.

Sometimes someone is hopeless in terms of romance. But the bar is pretty low if someone is realistic on who to shoot for. Especially for women. But even that midget from the Austin Power movies had a series of girlfriends.

GottaPSoBad · 2022-08-30T21:46:02+00:00

Q4A: Do you believe some people shouldn’t bother trying even basic general improvements?

No. And--"Hot Take"--anyone who says "yes" is a fucking asshole, sorry not sorry. Black-pilled bullshit thinking like "some people are hopeless or undatable" is a poison that we should debate into oblivion. I despise that mindset.

Are there a good number of women who [will] never be skinny[?]

Is "being skinny" an immutable characteristic? Last I checked, it wasn't. So WTF kind of question is that?

or facially attractive?

I'm of the mind that many "ugly" faces, like ugly bodies, can be made better with diet, exercise, and other natural means. I'm also super against genetic determinism in general. Most people, with the right plan and willpower, can lose weight, build definition, dress better, et cetera. Just a matter of how much they want it.

Are there significant numbers of men who will never benefit from a few extra platonic relationships?

WTF is this question? How is this even relevant?

are improvements in socializing and appearance always beneficial?

YES. Ffs, what are we even doing here?

szclimber · 2022-08-30T22:10:38+00:00

No. Also never be skinny??? Literally anyone can be skinny. Eat less.

propyl21 · 2022-08-30T23:33:18+00:00

Heh. This one always makes me chuckle.

Why? Because to say "don't even bother trying" is such a cop out and an insult to the human race.

Here's one such reason why.

If you go back into any person's history, even just 500 years, every ancestor that lived before him would have gone through some of the toughest, most barbaric of times, facing so many hardships, famine, disease, wars, you name it.

And yet, his ancestors would have had the dexterity and hunger for survival in order to pass on their genes and experience to their offspring, leading all the way to him at the forefront of that lineage in today's modern age of magic where we have such abundance of amenities that our ancestors could only dream of.

And yet you're telling me that the person at the forefront of that lineage wishes to simply give up? Well his ancestors would be spinning in their graves seeing all their hardships go to waste.

This is what I see with the modern man/woman who chooses to give up or who ends up joining cults like inceldom etc. What a fucking waste.

bzl33 · 2022-08-31T00:16:20+00:00

People struggle with improvement because of a lack of motivation. Motivation gets easily sapped nowadays by mindless distractions, like Reddit. For example, someone who makes 25+ comments daily on Reddit doesn't have much going on IMO...there are tons of better things you can be doing.

Without being able to visualize a good end result and/or seeing proof in their own life that the work will lead to something, SOME people will give up prematurely. That's why this question is quite honestly stupid (because of course improvement is always beneficial in a vacuum), you don't seem to understand why the people in that thread have the attitude they have. Mind you, I don't agree with their attitude but it's not based out of nothing. I find this sub to be like old Reddit (which used to have real debate) but also filled with people talking past each other.

MysterySolverDog · 2022-08-31T00:19:22+00:00

You can always get to a healthy weight, so exercise always has a benefit if you assume that the reason you're not getting as much attention as you want is because you're very out of shape.

However, extra platonic relationships are not always beneficial, whether it's for the purpose of finding a romantic relationship or otherwise. I definitely think that a lot of posters here need to realise their friendship isn't necessarily as valuable as they think it is.

melody_of_ · 2022-08-31T00:24:56+00:00

Yes there is definitely a point in which your beating a dead horse. I think particularly unattractive men and only men that also struggle socially are probably fucked the worst. I would "seek happiness in other places"™️ in a situation like this.

EsotericRoadCase · 2022-08-31T01:39:11+00:00

Everyone should bother improving. Sometimes, you have to try and do things for yourself. Example I work out and lift weights primarily for mental health reasons, and so I can do whatever I want to do physicality wise. Better body aesthetics are just a bonus.

Patrickstarho · 2022-08-31T02:04:33+00:00

The social circle shit is not good advice. The best thing a man can do is get fit, eat healthy and develop skills. If you are wasting time with some nerds at some dumb ass event instead learning a new skill or working out then your not improving yourself.

Exceptional men are built in solitude. If you are in a rut do not even leave your room until you develop a plan then execute said plan.

Smitten_Squire · 2022-08-31T02:36:19+00:00

Reasonably improve is good. Going to extremes is bad

python834 · 2022-08-31T04:25:10+00:00

You can try, but realistically there is only so much you can do for certain individuals. Luck of the draw realy

TodTheRod01 · 2022-08-31T08:36:11+00:00

platonic as in female friends or male friends. Big difference.

Also its not that the women shouldnt bother using cosmetics...its that rather than spend hundreds of dollars on that...they should probably invest in a personal trainer

Title	Q4A: Do you believe some people shouldn’t bother trying even basic general improvements? Why?
Author	sarkington
Upvotes	14
Comments	49
Date	August 30, 2022 9:08 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/x1uktx/q4a_do_you_believe_some_people_shouldnt_bother/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4a-do-you-believe-some-people-shouldnt-bother.1130682 https://theredarchive.com/post/1130682

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