If men had lower standards for women than women had for men, average wouldn't be used as an insult (cmv)

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-02-26T13:24:55+00:00

Removed for OP abandonment

QncyFie · 2023-02-26T08:33:30+00:00

I think rating looks is perceived as more offensive by women than men. Men do it constantly and most women find it rude really haha

microphone_commander · 2023-02-26T06:17:23+00:00

It's only an insult if the woman's deluded herself into thinking she's above average

The point of noting that she's average is to put that unearned arrogance in check

AmbitiousCamp5942 · 2023-02-26T09:24:51+00:00

It's the above average effect. Around 90% of people rate themselves as above average in a given domain. Looks is one of those domains. How would you feel if I told you that you have average intelligence. You would probably be offended and deny it even though statistically you probably are pretty average intellectually. Ever notice how almost all normal nothing-special people think that "the average person is so stupid". People are too emotionally driven by their ego to see themselves as the average person they are. Right now you are probably thinking "yeah other people do that but I actually am smarter than average". Suuurreee.

BigZaddyZ3 · 2023-02-26T05:51:32+00:00

It’s not meant as an insult, but as a reality check…

Due_Author350 · 2023-02-26T06:21:35+00:00

Red pill says women only like the top 20%, and men like most women

If you simply get off the internet for a bit and step outside, you will immediately see that this isn't the case.

Then why would average be a bad thing or a dis for a woman?

If regular people (not Red Pill/self-proclaimed pickup gurus) say "average", they just mean someone who isn't very conventionally attractive but not quite unattractive either. That's it. It's neither a diss nor a compliment.

Does that mean most men really settle too?

Define "settle".

mantis_princess · 2023-02-26T06:21:37+00:00

There is a couple arguments against this but it is also kind of complicated.

Calling a woman average can be an insult because it does seem like women are more likely to think we are more attractive than we are, so saying someone is average when they think they are a 10 can feel like an insult even if people would generally agree that its true. She believes she is a 9 or 10 so it is an insult to her and sometimes guys will do it to hurt a woman on purpose to knock her ego down. This can happen to guys too where they think they are way hotter than they are and can be hurt by being called average, but I do think its probably more common with women. Just judging off of my friendships with women over the years and how much I have heard women hyping each other up for our looks and saying things "you were too good/too pretty for him anyways" and all that.

Also, as a woman I do not see dating an average guy as settling and I don't think the red pill stuff about women only liking the top 20% of men is true. It isn't true for me and I can genuinely be attracted to guys that are average and I don't feel like I am settling if someone meets my standards and I find them attractive. Also, attraction is still subjective so someone who is a 9 to me might be a 5 to another person.

However, the reason I say it is complicated despite me thinking these two things is that I don't know if these necessarily mean men have lower standards for women. I don't really know because I don't have experience in the current dating world with men. I am bisexual and exclusively dated women for a while and I was in a 3 year relationship. might start dating again soon though and I will find out for myself I guess. I have always gotten the impression that men have higher appearance standards for women than women do for men, but women can have higher standards for things like career.

But idk, I have seen a lot of instances of women in my life dating men who are average or below average that are not respectful partners when I think the she is much more attractive than him. I also know a guy who seems like he is being financially used by his gf who is more attractive than him. Both of these instances are sad but idk which is more common. Users are gonna use and sometimes people are just really attracted to someone who is not "in their league" when it comes to conventional attractiveness

Steakman1 · 2023-02-26T06:23:31+00:00

Being called average as a woman is only perceived as an insult if the woman believes she’s well above average. But I don’t doubt there’s usually malicious intent behind calling a woman average. And to be fair I think all those video compilations of women being called average are silly because most of them are women who very clearly are above average physically. But average women can still see dating success. They just have different advantages and disadvantages than an above average woman.

Being called average as a man is an insult because it’s basically synonymous with being called undesirable. Or at least that’s how it is in TRP world. But I do think the idea of average not being enough as a man is spreading more outside RP related spaces.

Does that mean most men really settle too?

TRP would argue most men take what they can get and most aren’t in happy relationships. So yea that sounds like settling to me. But they would say it’s the blue pillers that are settling. There was a time I thought of getting the hottest girl in high school. Reality told me very quick that women at that level would be a significant challenge for me. Does that mean I settled because I’m not exclusively pursuing the best looking women out there? You could technically say yes. You could probably argue everyone settles unless their standards have never changed since they first became interested in romance.

BirdMedication · 2023-02-26T07:05:07+00:00

Average is only an insult if you're deluded into thinking you're too good for the the average man or that you're a high-value woman by virtue of existing. When red-pill guys use the term they're often (not always) reacting to a woman with a big head and giving her a reality check.

If these women had self-awareness then they would accept "average" as a neutral description or even a compliment that at least they're not ugly with terrible personalities. Most people are average, it's not a big deal.

No_Reflection_798 · 2023-02-26T06:47:36+00:00

Your post is kind of all over the place. But, I will respond with trying to answer it, while being within the spirit of (what I think) is the main point you are making.

Men's standards for women are already lower than what women's standards are for men.

Ask any reasonable man. All they want from a woman is a woman who is nice to them, a center of peace for them, affectionate, and loyal. Basically, just be a good human being.

Do we need to go over, yet again, the stringent requirements women often put on men?

What you are addressing with Kevin Samuels is that he was dissing the average women who are expecting and demanding to be with men who are much more advanced in life than they themselves are. I just saw a couple clips from his show. There was a 35 year-old woman, single mother of two children, who thought she deserved a tall, handsome, provider, who did not have any children of his own.

There are two main enormous holes in this expectation:

Why would someone think that it would be logical, and completely reasonable, for someone else, of a higher caliber, to willingly attach themselves to you, when you have all this baggage?
The man's side is never considered. In this respect, men are treated like an object. The man gets a say in whether he wants to be with you, and if the answer is "no", then "no" means "no".

Xxranger567 · 2023-02-26T10:14:52+00:00

Men have lower standards when it comes to casual sex, but they have EXTREMELY high standards when it comes to long-term relationships.

LouisdeRouvroy · 2023-02-26T05:52:16+00:00

Then why would average be a bad thing or a dis for a woman?

Because women all think they are 9s or 10s. At least 7s (that's why Kevin Samuels always said "don't use 7").

So reminding women that they are average when they are average is not meant to diss them, it is just a reality check.

You cannot have a productive debate if the other party is completely removed from reality (as in "I want an average dude, you know a guy who is 6'2 and earn 250K USD a year").

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Capeninja · 2023-02-26T10:06:22+00:00

Red pill says women only like the top 20%, and men like most women.

Red pill says women are each only sexually attracted to a small amount of men while men are sexually attracted to most women.

By saying a woman is "average" one is saying that while many men will be interested in sleeping with her, less will be interested in seriously dating her.

OmoshiroiKudamono · 2023-02-26T12:04:04+00:00

The "average" woman on Kevin Samuel's views herself as a 10. Men tend to have REALISTIC standards. The problem with women's standards is that they FAIL TO MEET THOSE STANDARDS THEY DEMAND. Sure, men would want the model, but they would HAPPILY accept average.

If a girl is not that attractive to a man, but decent, the man will think, "She might not be X, but at least Y is something she excels at." Whereas, the women who end up on KS DEMANDS the average guy meet her essay of requirements.

warramite · 2023-02-26T08:58:20+00:00

average wouldn't be used as an insult (cmv)

If a woman's obese and full of trauma, she can't call herself a 8 or 10... at most she's a 5 if she got awesome face

Most women are 5's because they are average, telling a woman she's a 5 is giving them a reality check

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Maffioze · 2023-02-26T09:38:00+00:00

I don't see how this reasoning makes sense. Can you explain it more clearly?

Subject-Ad-9613 · 2023-02-26T10:47:23+00:00

you are omitting the context. average is not an insult, but it is used to bring a woman down who has an insanely inflated view of herself, and typically when she wants something far outside her true range.

thats very common and the typical theme of KS videos. all women who call in ultimately want top earners and think they are models, even if they are ugly, middle ages, single mothers and obese.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-02-26T11:25:39+00:00

"Average" is pretty insulting for most things. Imagine if your friends called your intelligence average, your looks average, the amount they liked you average. So they're saying half of all people are better than you and there's nothing that they particularly like or that makes you stand out in this regard. If you can't say something positive about how someone looks, it's best just to say nothing unless you're specifically asked for criticism, as saying what essentially amounts to "you look bland" is never going to be taken well.

CimZim · 2023-02-26T12:09:48+00:00

It seems like "average" is used to take a woman down a few pegs. At least that's true of the manosphere/Kevin Samuels types I've seen.

It would only do so if she sees herself as above average, and even then, if she's realistically above average then it won't have any effect either.

They never seem to mean it as a compliment.

To the majority of people, it's not a compliment or an insult. It's just statistically the truth.

AfterRemorse · 2023-02-26T12:37:13+00:00

It seems like "average" is used to take a woman down a few pegs. At least that's true of the manosphere/Kevin Samuels types I've seen.

They mean it as a reality check and it's absolutely used to take delusional women back to reality. Especially Kevin Samuels he was about putting this in perspective and creating equitable mindsets.

If you think you're a 10/10 and someone says no, you're a 5/10, it feels like an "attack" and people will jump to the person's defence stupidly.

It's like no, you're just average. You're just normal like the rest of that. If that sounds bad to you, it's because you don't have any humility. Join the rest of us and just be fucking normal instead of living in delusion.

MotleyCrew1989 · 2023-02-26T13:18:15+00:00

The problem is very simple, average women have overinflated expectations, some of them expect a Calvin Klein underwear model or better while average men know they wont get a Victoria´s Secret model. "Average" is used to put them in their place, because they aim way above their league.

And yes, most men settle, IMO the only ones that dont are the ones that met their partner when they both were under 25yo.

chancetolive · 2023-02-26T13:21:11+00:00

It's not a diss dude. Majority of guys would be very happy to have an average woman in their life. As long as she's not really hard to deal with, stays thin (many don't even mind that).

The criteria is just turn up.

chickenfriedsteakdin · 2023-02-26T13:38:44+00:00

CDC: Average US woman 5’4” 170 lbs 38 inch waist. Let that sink in. 30 more pounds than 1960 yet men are sexist misogynistic for having a problem with “real women have curves”

Title	If men had lower standards for women than women had for men, average wouldn't be used as an insult (cmv)
Author	bakedsunday
Upvotes	8
Comments	100
Date	February 26, 2023 5:39 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11c6is9/if_men_had_lower_standards_for_women_than_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-men-had-lower-standards-for-women-than-women.1153296 https://theredarchive.com/post/1153296

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