A question to the forum

dday_throwaway3 · 2023-04-03T14:28:02+00:00

My issue was the emasculation paradox, though I didn't know what to call it at the time.

The emasculation paradox is this: men who are worried about their woman’s emotions and the consequences of making her angry will submit to her in hopes of avoiding those consequences. The paradox is that this supplicating behavior makes it more likely she will become angry, and end up doing exactly what I was hoping to avoid.

It took me a while understand why I had to stand up for myself if I wanted to stop presenting myself as a target. There is a threatpoint in the emasculation paradox model which shows you why those rational conclusions about becoming more supplicative are actually based on false premises. When I Say No I Feel Guilty's Assertive Bill of Rights was hugely beneficial to me to stop that behavior. It was after divorce was finalized, but at least I won't be repeating history with other women.

rookiepatchaut · 2023-04-03T15:00:35+00:00

Damn, were we married to the same person? My ex was a covert narcissist and I was an empath. I never understood it until I finally had to see a therapist. If my ex apologized, it would always be an angry apology for trivial things, not root causes, which would make me look like the bad guy.

She’d also accuse me of things like belittling her and looking down on her career when I was always so proud of her and always talked her up to my friends.

Turns out she was attracted to a new colleague of hers, and she was looking for a way for me to get angry so she’d have an excuse to break up with me and make me look like the bad guy amongst our mutual friends and her family. And yes, the one time we had a fight in three years where I got angry, she was gone and I took all the blame. I never understood what gaslighting met until after we separated / divorced.

Karma will catch up with her. I gua-ran-tee it.

5unshine_Daydream · 2023-04-03T14:17:15+00:00

My first child left for college, which made me realize that my future was going to lack good communication if nothing changed. I talked with my wife about wanting to communicate more and be closer, but she took it as a personal insult and refused to address it or change. The kids also brought this up with her as she had become increasingly silent and withdrawn. If she was unwilling to admit the problem or take action to address it, then there was no point staying together.

njcuban123 · 2023-04-03T14:26:55+00:00

Yea, I wish I got a sincere "I'm Sorry". I say that but I am stubborn as well. It all blurs together at the end. Each person seems to remember what they want to remember on what caused the marriage to fall apart.

Diablo_Canyon2 · 2023-04-03T15:14:41+00:00

Me endlessly compromising to my wife's every whim because "happy wife happy life", and my own fear and insecurity of her leaving me, well that ship has sailed. No longer am I compromising during this divorce process (I refuse to leave the house like she demanded I do, got hit with fake TRO which was denied but I'm on "supervised visits") and I've never seen her throw a tantrum this big.

vector5633 · 2023-04-03T14:39:41+00:00

The cunt filed a frivolous TRO on me. A month later I filed for divorce.

softinvest · 2023-04-03T19:01:55+00:00

Mine has tremendous baggage from childhood that manifested into her need to control everything. I bought into the happy wife, happy life mentality but realized that pleasing them to deactivate the bomb did little other than to delay it until another moment and add a sprinkle of resentment each time. Her expectation increased with each new thing I took care of and she then had more things to complain that I was doing wrong. That then led to more resentment and if I tried to call her bullshit it would lead to a war that I eventually became too emotionally defeated to handle. And the cycle continued. Men and woman are wired differently and I no longer buy into the system that men should be required to be forgiving to a woman who is emotionally abusive. I used to give excuses like “she had a bad day” or “she’s on her period” etc etc but standing your ground respectfully and with conviction is far better than selling your soul.

RichardCleveland · 2023-04-03T15:16:15+00:00

Emotional manipulation and becoming disturbingly co-dependent. Throw in a bunch of gas lighting, and not once her ever being wrong. I really feel lucky she cut my strings via wanting the divorce herself. She for sure has a personality disorder... and of course our marriage falling apart (20yr) was my fault. Funny enough though she found out that she might've been delusional.. and "cancelled" the divorce last week. Just two days after she met with her attorney... so now it's on me. lol

I am looking forward to starting a new chapter in my life.

tajiekc · 2023-04-03T15:18:16+00:00

She made herself the only thing she cares about. No time with family, not time for house, no time for anything related to us. Even zero pics of all of us on social networking. If you will see her profile she kinda single. Spending more money on stupid stuff just to look better in other’s eyes. That is all in addition to infidelity.

Normal-Subject-7405 · 2023-04-03T17:43:09+00:00

Her never being content and grateful for what we've got. It was a constant battle to be content. In our mid 30's we had two houses, a decent business, 2 new cars, and reasonably healthy. We had more than our close friendship group (not that it was ever a competition for me).
But, there were restrictions - "If we wanted a nice holiday the compromise is we can't go out to restaurants every weekend". She could not get this!
She would tell me she feels depressed because she doesn't have the latest new clothes and I would tell her, buy them, it's no problem but we won't be able to go to this restaurant on the weekend. Her reaction would be like a child's tantrum; crying and saying she hated her life and I'm a terrible husband.
She would also try to embarrass me in front of my friends telling them I won't buy her certain things (we lost contact with various friends because of this).

Address_Icy · 2023-04-03T19:11:21+00:00

Three of the biggest issues were:

1) No matter what, she's just not a clean or organized person. Now, I'm not a neat freak but I put my things away after I use them. I'll sweep and do some light cleaning throughout the week. Nothing too crazy. She leaves clothes, make up, bags, etc. All over the place. Cluttering literally everything. When I ask her to put them away, I'm "abusing" her because she doesn't have anywhere to keep them (which is wrong).

2) This is mostly on me, but I found the hobbies she did embarrassing. Dressing up like a guy for TikTok videos and stuff. Do I care if people do that? Not really. But it was just embarrassing that it was my wife doing it and having everyone I know seeing it (this also played into her affair where her and the other girl would do the same and make TikTok videos which is how I found out).

3) The work she chose to do did nothing to help our family and made my life harder. She was a stay at home mom for a few years. Now that our kid is in school, I pushed her to get a job. The job she chose was with a family member, 40 minutes away, for near minimum wage, and she didn't have a license. So either me or her family had to shuttle her back and forth to work. This work didn't pay for any bills or anything, just her hobbies. I was working remotely full time. She claimed she was too tired from work now so I did all the homework with our kid, all the cleaning (and at a point I lost the will to clean because she just trashed the place once she got home), all the cooking, all the shopping, while I'm still working and being her taxi.

At the end of it all, I realized I was just living with an overgrown teenager and I was tired of it.

67Luck · 2023-04-03T18:40:06+00:00

Ex escalated behaviors that were congruent and later diagnosed as BPD. People ask how I got entangled without seeing it, but it came down to me being then much younger and uneducated to the issue, plus her keeping it reeled in pre marriage, then not living with her prior.

As soon as the ink was dry on the marraige doc, and we moved in together- Ho Lee Shit

Weary_Landscape_7098 · 2023-04-03T20:23:28+00:00

My ex-wife is a covert narcissist. Our relationship started out well but then did a 180 after a few years.

Like many of the guys posting here, my ex-wife is completely unable to apologize for anything, and she can't take responsibility for anything. When we were married she would constantly insult everything about me she could think of. She went from thinking I was amazing and smart, to thinking I'm worthless and an idiot. Nothing really changed about me, but when she got a really high-paying job and started making a lot more than me, it went to her head.

After several years of the abuse it really makes you feel small. When she demanded a divorce, I initially didn't want it, but now I see it was the best thing she's ever given me.

Hot-Hall8774 · 2023-04-03T21:40:09+00:00

Reasons for divorce

Me:

1) Did not understand family dynamic and positive communication or how to deal with conflict in a healthy way due to upbringing.

2) One-itis; I put her on a pedestal and still do occasionally. I struggle with nice guy/transactional love and couldnt say no.

Her: 1) Post-partum depression, drinking and Zoloft combination made her go insane before my very eyes and just turned me into the enemy.

2) Can never admit flaw, fault, apologize or even just say “oh well I guess we just disagree on that not important topic”. I had to be perfect 10 out of 10 times and do/say/think the exact right thing to even just keep the peace. I managed to do it only 9 out of 10 times, and boy that 1 time i was human was a shit storm.

I love this sub… ( i guess im on my burner right now but i post here and too lazy to switch) … it is just unbelievable to me that we have all had such similar experiences. I really can not fathom this, and I wish I knew all this shit beforehand. The patterns, the feelings, the themes and timelines are ALWAYS SO ACCURATE. It’s fucking mental. The original posts two answers are just like my life to a T, even still. a year and a half post divorce with two very small ones so we’re tied at the hip. I have to still grit my teeth and take the abuse. Part of me still wants to just make her happy, even though she has thrown my life into turmoil in so many ways.

We were just perfect together until we weren’t. Then I wasn’t good enough or rich enough or, something enough but in order to make it ok to move on it just became a slow weird spiral into me being “abusive” and a “narcissist” and it was gone 6 months before I knew we actually had problems. It has taken a long time to realize that there is nothing that I could ever have done to satisfy her. As she pulled away, I became a little cuck who would do everything for her, be the sweetest guy and sacrifice everything. Do more chores, cook, take care of everything… and that just made it all worse. Every day there is at least a twinge of anguish, because I only wanted a “normal” life— a normal family with some hallmark Christmas moments and I now have an incredibly fucked up on. I have two very young girls that I just will never be the father I want to be to them because I have days and nights without them, and they are too young to understand all the hows and whys. My ex is very troubled and subversively turns them against me and I can only just stay calm and cool and play the long con. She is very good looking and will have someone else as a victim soon to solve all her problems, but it will still hurt. I am so sad for myself, my kids, and just such an emotionally abused wounded puppy. It did make me quit drinking totally (never had a big problem but it made me lazy and cranky and I don’t see any positives), get in awesome shape, get really in touch with myself mentally. It’s a lot of effort just to stay “ok”. I can never trust anyone again, the roller coaster isnt worth it, and I am so stuck because I dont know what I even want. What I want isn’t possible, the ship sailed.

AudreyTooTwo · 2023-04-03T23:22:43+00:00

Lots of things, of course. But the straw that broke the camel's back was two things that sorta merged into one. First: unwilling to compromise. Not talking about petty shit like what color to paint the bathroom. I'm talking major decisions a married couple has to make that shape their future. I thought I had made PLENTY of compromises, living and working where it was convenient and fun for her, not me, even though she was unemployed. But she wouldn't bend at all to help me.

Second: I lost that feeling that I had a business partner. When you wipe away all the love and emotion from marriage, you're in business. Like any business, you and your business partner have to sit down and go over the books, balance the budget, figure out your expenses, manage your investments, pay your taxes, decide your priorities ("Do we save this money or have a little fun with it?"), plan for emergencies and basically keep the ship upright and pointed in the right direction.

Yeah, I was getting my dick sucked by a decent-looking woman. But it's not the same when it's a business partner you no longer trust and who seems to be actively trying to ruin the business. I literally had nightmares about our finances; she didn't care.

BlackFire68 · 2023-04-03T16:24:20+00:00

If this marriage ends, it will be emasculating behavior. The previous one ended on her infidelity, but she apologized once in 21 years of marriage, and has apologized twice since then!

Asleep-Ad-7459 · 2023-04-03T20:14:50+00:00

Your two bullet points ring very true in my divorce. My ex had to correct everything, from how I did laundry to how I exercised. It got so bad that I thought I was going crazy or senile. I hate to say she intentionally gaslighted me because I think that's an overused term. It was more like...she just had to be right today even if she said the opposite yesterday. Instead of even recognizing any possible miscommunication, she would insist she was right, that she made herself very clear, and that I was ignoring her, stupid or crazy (usually all three!) She only sincerely apologized to me one time that I can remember. Everything else was couched in non-apology terms.

So I just went with it. Even when I knew I was right, I knew pointing that out would escalate into a fight. So I just took it and drank all the time. Then it all blew up.

Thin_Radish_3439 · 2023-04-04T13:23:23+00:00

The total inability to be a team on anything. I remember talking about finances while we were both going to community college and her wanting to quit her job to concentrate on school. We had discussed it at length and had not reached a solution. Couple days later I'm blindsided at or daughter's soccer game that she just quit her job. I couldn't afford to support us and both of us go to school so guess who went and who didn't? Plus she carried the medical insurance at the time. If I had known I'd have filled my maintenance prescriptions before she quit, but she wasn't thinking of me at all. That opened my eyes to the disrespect and lack of cooperation. It was down hill from there.

pk2at · 2023-04-03T14:58:32+00:00

Behavior is a symptom of other deep rooted issues. If you think marriages can be fixed by simple p&q, its naive

Accomplished-Toe5220 · 2023-04-04T03:15:18+00:00

Dude hide as many assets as you can. Precious metals etc. File and move on to something half your age +7 years and never (lock eyes with me) ever look back.

Title	A question to the forum
Author	njcuban123
Upvotes	14
Comments	44
Date	April 3, 2023 2:11 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/12alpc0/a_question_to_the_forum/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/a-question-to-the-forum.1207005 https://theredarchive.com/post/1207005

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