An Analogy for "Having sex can lead to a child therefore you made your decision when you decided to have sex"

BurnAfterEating420 · 2023-12-06T18:39:10+00:00

all you have to do is consider that "you consented to sex so you consented to children " ONLY applies to men, not women...so it can be discarded as a bullshit argument.

of course if someone is anti-abortion, then that's another question.

Nonbelieverjenn · 2023-12-06T19:13:24+00:00

When o had the sex talk with my sons I told them anytime you have sex you are potentially choosing to have a child with that woman. Condoms aren’t 100% effective. I also told them never to trust a female about birth control. Females can lie. Or something as simple as being on antibiotics can make the pill fail. Not to mention herpes and warts. So never ever have sex unless you are prepared. We also made sure there were condoms at home readily available no questions asked. It worked. My sons are 31, 30 and 20. Two have SOs. Neither are ready for kids so they’re still careful. I never said sex was bad or a big no no. Just made sure they understood all of the consequences to having sex.

Stunning_Memory8347 · 2023-12-06T20:59:01+00:00

Women hold men hyper-accountable while holding themselves hypo-accountable. What's more, they are stunningly unaware that they are even doing it.

Matter_As_Machine · 2023-12-06T20:53:38+00:00

If man makes a choice and is responsible, then woman makes a choice and is responsible too.. Why do they fight for abortions?

WeEatBabies · 2023-12-06T18:42:31+00:00

False, you don't need to have sex to be locked into fatherhood : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh\_\_63swvtY

LethiasWVR · 2023-12-06T19:56:28+00:00

Personally, I just point out that this is the same logic used by pro-life people that feminists reject as sexist and trying to subvert their rights. They can only really have three responses to this:
A) Double down and say they're ok with that standard. Fair enough, at least they're consistent. A harsh standard is better than a double standard, imo.
B) Admit it's not fair once it's framed in terms they can appreciate. Changed a very small amount of minds with this one, mostly on people trying to convince me feminists are on men's side, too.
C) Admit that it's not about equality, but revenge. "Yeah, well now you know how women feel." The worst of all options, but now you know where they stand, and that you are wasting your time. These true believers cannot be swayed, but a bystander might.

Any time I try to make an analogy, the response basically boils down to "X doesn't compare to pregnancy in any way that I'm willing to accept, thus your point is invalid," so I found this framing method to be more effective.

Square-Spectrum · 2023-12-06T22:45:46+00:00

The ridiculous thing to me is that women can choose to not have any relationship with a man but still be entitled to his money.

That's just nuts.

A woman can get a new man to financially sponsor her existence and continue getting money from the former. It's not logical at all. It's just nonsense.

SlyPogona · 2023-12-06T17:18:46+00:00

then just shift the conversation to abortion, but be careful, the velocity in which they backtrack WILL create a blackhole

tmpTomball · 2023-12-07T01:47:09+00:00

Honestly, the abortion debate sickens me. Everyone is fighting on edge-cases that just haven't come to be yet.

Most (>50%) Pro-Choice people are OK limiting abortion in the last weeks of pregnancy
Most (>50%) Pro-Life people are OK with allowing abortion in the first weeks of pregnancy.

So you intersect those two groups and you find that VERY few people feel the need to allow 40th week abortions. And very few people feel the need to outlaw 1st week abortions. Those two groups of radicals make up (last I saw) less than 20% of the people.

That means that 80% of people are just arguing over WHEN in the pregnancy to say "its gone too far". Yet the whole electorate is painting the opposition as having the extreme view when most ( > 50% ) of the time, that just isn't the case.

So with birth control, condoms, morning after pill, and 6 week abortions, almost everyone would be covered.

Just pisses me off because as a nation we really agree in overwhelming majority. Some abortion is OK, and Some abortion is not.

I think the r/MensRights debate should be about what to do when the man wants the baby but the women doesn't, and what happens when the woman wants the baby and the man doesn't. But that topic is never discussed on capital hill.

1antinomy · 2023-12-07T05:26:55+00:00

Ultimately, they don’t apply this logic to women so it falls on my deaf ears

I’ve already gotten snipped to avoid this issue, but it’s absurd how women control literally every other aspect of procreation & pregnancy— yet men are blamed for the sex part

It ‘takes two’ when it’s the sex part, but not when it comes to her taking birth control or keeping the baby or putting you on child support

Nope— that’s her decision & her’s alone

ganesh_WL · 2023-12-06T17:16:31+00:00

If you say sex is like buying a house then buying a house without your concern is equal to r@pe whereas while having sex with concern you should also take the consequences.i would say the same thing "having sex can lead to a child therefore you made your decision".

ImportantResults · 2023-12-06T21:47:44+00:00

Women have a bunch of contraceptive methods at their disposal but if they get pregnant the man is punished.

Fuzzy_Department2799 · 2023-12-06T17:16:44+00:00

Except that you cant legally be held responsible for the mortgage payments without signing the paperwork.

If you are having unprotected sex with someone not on birth control. Hell even with a condom and birth control its still possible to get pregnant, then you are the one being irresponsible with your future.

Rude_Shock343 · 2023-12-07T01:46:07+00:00

Funny that logic isn't thrown around when the female wants an abortion

Shreddersaurusrex · 2023-12-06T19:30:24+00:00

This is the reality. Best to act on reality vs worry about what an idea world would be like.

Milk--and--honey · 2023-12-07T16:32:16+00:00

I think it's a good idea to not have sex with a woman unless you like her and trust her. Because having a baby will drastically affect your life, whether you abandon it or not.

rabel111 · 2023-12-07T19:58:41+00:00

The use of another persons genetic material through a sex act, to create a foetus, when there was an expectation from claims of appropriate birth control use that neither person agreed to creation of a sucessful pregnancy, should be considered rape. Its rape, just like stealthing, and should be punishable with similar prison sentences.

Its a deception that negates consent, and thus without consent its female on male rape.

Nerfixion · 2023-12-07T04:58:51+00:00

Wtf happened to this sub man. It just goes further and further down hill.

What a shit analogy.

You know when you had sex there IS a chance of causing pregnancy. If you had a 1% chance of having of having to buy a home each time you looked at one, you'd probably not look at a tone of houses.

Furthermore men and woman are different. That's just how it is. Society needs to stop trying to act like we are the same. We aren't. Pregnancy as well as abortion has effects on a woman's body. If they want to pick which ever thats their choice. Personally I don't agree with abortion, but I won't inflict my opinion on women who bear the consequences when I do not.

If I lend you a power tool, and you break it, I may have known there was a chance of it happening, but I'd still want it to be replaced.

It's funny because all these comments say how much men have to be accountable and woman don't, yet y'all are here trying not to be accountable for your actions.

TheseMeat4233 · 2023-12-06T20:19:15+00:00

Complicated topic and there will never be a fair solution. The best solution I see is that men have to accept, that from the moment on the sperm is in the woman, we dont have a decision anymore. We should treat sex like that, it could happen that there will be a child.

abramN · 2023-12-06T17:39:05+00:00

naw, you'd still need to co-sign on the mortgage, especially if you're not married. This is not a good analogy because a house is not alive. The whole reason fathers are kept liable is because it's all for the child's best interests.

elebrin · 2023-12-06T17:32:18+00:00

I mostly agree with the sentiment, with one giant condition:

If you and your partner have in good faith discussed and planned contingencies so that children do not occur or, if they do occur, there is a plan for them, then the above doesn't necessarily need to hold sway.

If you agree that neither person wants children, steps are taken to prevent pregnancy and they fail, and then the decision that was made beforehand was that an abortion is to be the ultimate solution, and that abortion is not carried out... well, that's very clearly and explicitly NOT what was agreed upon.

That's the thing with sex. Having sex is super easy, and it's very easy to stick your head in the sand and pretend that there are no risks or that the risks are mitigated because of some trivial action, without any sort of actual planning preparation. Those risks are always there no matter how hard you ignore them. We have some means for mitigating them these days but they never really fully go away.

EOD_Bad_Karma · 2023-12-07T13:37:54+00:00

Yes. If you decide to have sex and you don’t use a condom and/or other contraceptives, a potential risk is pregnancy.

This analogy sucks.

You fuck. A pregnancy might happen. Take responsibility for your actions.

Don’t want the risk, keep it in your pants. Or at least, out of hers.

ViolentTakeByForce · 2023-12-06T18:43:16+00:00

Not even close dude. That analogy was terrible.

I know men nowadays don’t want to take personal responsibility but that’s what makes us men.

If you believe you are able to partake in a decision that can lead to a consequence, you need to be ready to be responsible for said consequence.

Looking at a house doesn’t automatically lead to your signatures on the paperwork and a mortgage tied to your credit for 30 years.

Having sex with a woman can automatically lead to you being responsible for a child for “at least” 18 years, and you don’t even need to sign a paper.

hardenup12345 · 2023-12-07T07:14:16+00:00

I don't agree with the analogy.

If you have sex as a man or woman then you aware that conception is a very real possibility, you are effectively signing up for the 'risk' of conceiving a child, just like when you agree to undertake a surgical procedure you sign up for the 'risk' of suffering from complications.

Probably the only circumstance which I'm still unsure of is if a woman knowingly misrepresents her chances of getting pregnant by lying about taking contraception. I still think the well-being of the child should take precedence, but I'd certainly understand why a man who was deliberately misinformed about the risks would be bitter about the whole affair.

BPFconnecting · 2023-12-07T07:20:41+00:00

Analogies are great for explaining an idea. They do not prove anything. Life isn’t fair. Usually we hate that. Undeniably the dad experience and the mom experience for launching humans into the world are not comparable and not “fair”. Including that it is not fair that she can kill a kid he wants or birth a kid he doesn’t want. But we know it’s unfair the other direction also. And what is fair to the baby? And do grandparents or uncles or cousins or siblings have any feelings about this? Does it matter?

Anytime you fuck a woman you are rolling the dice on starting a pregnancy.

We all know that house hunting doesn’t work that way.

Everyone lives at some stage of history. These days women choose to abort or not. This is reality. Plan accordingly.

Silly_Objective_5186 · 2023-12-07T12:57:03+00:00

take responsibility for the foreseeable consequences of your actions

CRobinsFly · 2023-12-07T16:23:10+00:00

I bypass all of this bullshit now via a vasectomy. None of the women I sleep with now know I had the procedure, and I never tell them.

My latest has given me an exercise on this issue by offering out of the blue "I took a pregnancy test today and it was negative".

Which prompted the discussion: "wait so you're telling me you were expecting that you might be pregnant? Weren't we going to have a discussion first?"

"I figured since you were just nutting in me that you were cool with having a baby."

"Well, I expected you to at least say hey 'there's a chance this is going to get me pregnant today, you should probably pull out'".

So there you have confirmation of that toxic perspective in the wild and she's not the first woman who' expressed similar things to me.

Spins13 · 2023-12-06T17:27:06+00:00

Accidents can happen though. So maybe the analogy with the house would be that you could sign a pre-contract by accident when you are looking for a house with her and that when that happens you can either go with it or do a procedure to get out of the pre-contract.

But then it gets complicated when the accident was planned by the miss, which is what happens at least as much as random accidents

Arzakhan · 2023-12-08T01:25:20+00:00

Putting a bunch of ingredients in the oven may make cake. You put them in there, why are you surprised you got a cake?

Title	An Analogy for "Having sex can lead to a child therefore you made your decision when you decided to have sex"
Author	Mode1961
Upvotes	138
Comments	101
Date	December 6, 2023 4:52 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/18c8ahi/an_analogy_for_having_sex_can_lead_to_a_child/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/an-analogy-for-having-sex-can-lead-to-a-child.1240363 https://theredarchive.com/post/1240363

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