Just stumbled upon seddit, and...

callthemedic · 2010-11-06T12:20:01+00:00

You are in a stable relationship. Your views are going to be a little slanted.

I've been browsing seddit for s few months now. I believe the community here is made of 2 types of people.

A) The hardcore PUA. The guys that aim to go out and meet girls to fuck. They are not looking to settle down.

B) The guys who have always been shy, introverted, and not popular with women. These guys want to learn how to build self confidence so they can find a girlfriend. They don't know where to begin and use seddit as a way to provide more opportunities to meet women.

There's a few in the grey area between the two but overall most of us fit into one of those categories.

Horatio__Caine · 2010-11-06T13:34:53+00:00

Woman here. Let's go point by point:

Why is being an alpha male so important?

Because alpha males get the most girls. No one has ever said "oh no, I can't date him - he's too cool, sexy, and alpha-male for me".

How acceptable is it to judge women based on their sex appeal?

Trust me, women do it all the time. I don't judge all men based on their sex appeal, but when I'm looking for someone to date, I definitely do. Men do the same. It's natural and healthy. I wouldn't recommend conducting a job interview based on these principles but when you're looking for someone to sleep with/date/whatever, these are worthwhile criteria.

Are PUAs out purely for meaningless sex, or do they actually take a girl's personality into account?

Depends on the guy. I recommend the latter, but if there are men and women who want the former, then I have no objection to it.

Do PUAs consider a woman's desires as well as their own? Can a PUA "take a hint", so to speak?

Yes. PUAs tend to be trying to get over "taking a hint" too often. PUAs are often naturally introverted, shy guys who interpret even the slightest blow-off to be a sign to stop when just a little bit of persistence would have netted them a date/evening/whatever.

Why is "LJBF" so undesirable? I mean, it's great making new friends, isn't it?

There are many things great about making new friends. Particularly, female friends help you meet more women and make you "pre-approved" so-to-speak. Women are more likely to date men they know through friends or other pre-approved means.

How do PUAs react to people in the LBGT group? If you're an "alpha male", is (male) homosexuality a threat to your masculinity?

Doubtful, but everyone is different.

Further to that, any bisexual or gay sedditors here?

I've heard of many bisexual PUAs, but it's generally easier for them sheerly by the numbers game (twice as many available targets, half of which are gay men who are on average [on average!] "easier" than women)

I guess my biggest question is: Why not just be yourself? Be up-front about your desires?

To quote Will Smith, from Hitch, "You is a very fluid concept". Some people when they are "themselves" are creepy, unattractive, and desperate. That is not their ideal self. PUA is a method of self-improvement, much like shaving, getting a haircut, or wearing clothes that fit.

Why not meet women through friends, or work, or common interests?

Most people who study PUA have tried this, but can't.

intjpua · 2010-11-06T17:18:13+00:00

You're young. Odds are, this relationship you're in won't last. When things go to crap, and you find yourself single for a few months while your process of meeting women "through friends, or work, or common interests" fails to produce results (because the older you get, the harder this becomes), you may change your tune.

The seduction community will still be here to help you get your shit sorted. The same guys won't be in it, because they'll have mastered their own situation and no longer require the support, but the culture will hopefully remain one of helping guys become their best self.

I'm not going to bother answering your questions, as you attack the people who do so sincerely. ThrowawayPUA, for example, gave you an excellent and polite response, which you dismissed as being not "meaningful"...when it was very clearly meaningful and sincere. You're looking for a fight, but you're probably not going to find one here. I don't think any of us are at all concerned with what the world at large thinks of what we're doing here; we can't afford to be. We've figured out what works, and we're refining our best selves with the support of our peers...if someone thinks what we do here is wrong, then that's their problem, and they'll need to sort it out for themselves.

If you were to spend a couple hours reading what we do here, you'd be able to answer your own questions. We aren't secretive. Everything is on the table, including our most base desires (sometimes we just want to get laid, and we're not ashamed to admit it, when that's the case).

asmodi · 2010-11-06T12:54:27+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ThrowawayPUA · 2010-11-06T12:09:11+00:00

You obviously have such a huge prejudgement of the PUA scene, it would be almost impossible to explain these things to you. You obviously have judged the PUA scene based on the remarks of sedditors, without ever bothering to read the basic materials those remarks assume you understand.

But I will feed the troll and answer your questions.

It is important to be an alpha male because women are attracted to alphas. Our failures as betas is what drove us to study pickup.

It is perfectly acceptable to judge women based on sex appeal. You wouldn't want to date a woman with no sex appeal, would you? Yes, we take personality into account. If you had your choice of women, you would want one that is beautiful and a great personality.

Of course we consider a woman's desires. The problem is that women often suppress their desires due to social pressure (e.g. their friends think they are a slut for sleeping around). So we enable them to do what they desire. And women do desire sex.

LJBF isn't about making friends. LJBF is when you want a sexual relationship and you are rejected. This can be crushing. It is difficult to be friends with someone who does not what you want, and then watch her have relationships with other men.

We aren't threatened by LGBTs. Your question is insulting and homophobic. There are gay and lesbian sedditors.

Your biggest question is very vague. We are all being ourselves. We just want to be the best version of ourselves. Generally, the people drawn to pickup have had trouble presenting themselves in a manner that attracts women. We may have all the qualities that a woman wants, but men are generally not attuned to the social signals that women understand well. So we miss cues that tell us a woman is interested in us. Or we present ourselves in a way that does not get through to women. It is especially difficult to "be up-front" with women, they generally become defensive when directly approached.

Now that I have answered your questions, let me ask you one. Why do you care what PUAs do?

netwiz101 · 2010-11-06T13:44:11+00:00

Why is being an alpha male so important?

It's a metaphor for being desirable. Being desirable is not important for you, because you're in a relationship.

How acceptable is it to judge women based on their sex appeal? Are PUAs out purely for meaningless sex, or do they actually take a girl's personality into account?

Looks are subjective. Everybody has a different opinion about what is attractive, and everybody should attempt to date someone they find attractive. Same goes for personalities.

Do PUAs consider a woman's desires as well as their own? Can a PUA "take a hint", so to speak?

PUA's mainly consider a woman's desires.

Why is "LJBF" so undesirable? I mean, it's great making new friends, isn't it?

When I go to the pepsi store, and ask for a pepsi, I want a pepsi. If my boss asked me to write software that makes new files, and I wrote software that formatted disks, I'd get fired. So, when a AFC asks how to get laid, nobody's gonna tell him to 'just be friends'.

How do PUAs react to people in the LBGT group? If you're an "alpha male", is (male) homosexuality a threat to your masculinity?

I guess it depends on whether they're homophobic or not. How do non PUAs react to people in the LBGT group? It's a bonkers question.

Further to that, any bisexual or gay sedditors here?

I'm guessing 10%.

I guess my biggest question is: Why not just be yourself? Be up-front about your desires? Why not meet women through friends, or work, or common interests?

That's what we're here to teach. Be yourself. Don't pander. Don't be afraid to talk to people you meet. Discover your common interests. That IS being a PUA.

Of course the AFC doesn't know that. He thinks you have to do something crazy or asshole-ish to pick up women. That's why he responds to the term PUA, and when he ends up here, he gets a chance to learn otherwise.

zacha · 2010-11-06T16:56:43+00:00

How do PUAs react to people in the LBGT group? If you're an "alpha male", is (male) homosexuality a threat to your masculinity?

Further to that, any bisexual or gay sedditors here?

Bi dude here, and no, male homosexuality is not a threat to my masculinity, it's bros with my masculinity :)

I only browse here occasionally, but in general I find pickup advice to often be gender- and orientation-inclusive -- most people like alpha people, by definition. Confidence is sexy.

Marcooo · 2010-11-06T13:08:38+00:00

I'm too tired to reply to all your questions, so I'll stick to one:

Why is "LJBF" so undesirable? I mean, it's great making new friends, isn't it?

I have had a lot of "LJBF", some of which are great because they turned into some of my closest friends. BUT: I also end up in LBJF situations with girls that I personally would like to have a different relationship with and I never lay this out on the table, resulting in a LJBF situation that sucks. This means I have some female friends that consider me as a close friend, where I would like to see things differently.

This ended up in have a lot of female friend saying that I'm a great guy, but in the end left me still single (and without sex). This situation for me is undesirable.

redbirdjr · 2010-11-06T14:46:05+00:00

Because women go for alpha males.
My take on this is that a) a girl I will go out with long term needs sex appeal and personality, b) sex appeal I can see on the first date, c) sex is fun, even with someone with little personality, d) why not try out the sex and then figure out if the personalities work.
Yes. But sometimes "hints" aren't what women actually want, they are what society has told her she has to do.
Friendship is based on personality, and when the LJBF card gets pulled, usually it's too early for them to have gotten to know you. You're not making friends, you're just getting rejected.
No. In fact, I do most of my best pickup at a gay bar. Last night, a gay man was dry-humping me on the dancefloor. I whispered in his ear that I'm straight and we talked for a little while. A few minutes later I was swarmed with girls. "Social proof" is when girls think your attractive because someone else thought you were attractive. It doesn't really matter if the latter person is male or female.
Not as far as I know. But I have talked to my gay roommate about pickup and I don't think PUA techniques are particularly less effective on men.
Let me answer with a question: would you say the same thing to someone who took a public speaking class? A karate class? A comedy class?

You wouldn't, because it's socially acceptable to improve your ability to deal with public speaking, conflicts, and humor. But most people don't take those kinds of classes because they want to speak, fight, or joke professionally; they take those kinds of classes to become better with certain kinds of social situations. Talking to women is just another social situation.

The deeper issue here is; what does it even mean to "be yourself"? I am inherently myself. If I act like a PUA, acting like a PUA is being myself. Also, people change: being myself one day is not the same as being myself the next day. To me, being a PUA means taking charge of how you change as a person and making sure that the changes make you more interesting and active. You aren't likely to "trick" women into sleeping with you, but you can change yourself to be someone women want to sleep with. And I'm of the opinion that in doing so, you become a better person too.

2010-11-06T14:51:00+00:00

PUA, I liken, to a phase in a man's conscious evolution. It isn't a state of being, anymore than when a man might be an AFC. The foundation of PUA, to me (although I am not part of the community any longer) is that there are techniques and a certain level of awareness or consciousness about social interaction that can help or hurt that basis.

I would say you are probably a more self-aware, confident guy. You may have even grown up well grounded and possibly with a good family that gave you a stable foundation and healthy basis in who you are and what you could do. ALOT of want-to-be-Pick-Up-Artists went the PUA route because they were scorned men.

You can see them all the time probably as facebook friends that bemoan the world of dating, yet never see their tactics, targets or themselves as the issue (not a problem, just an issue).

Me? I'm a self-improvement junky. When I went this route, I did so back in college, to LEARN, to acquire SKILLS as Napolean Dynamite put it, to become more self-aware, because while I grew it a loving home, I've never accepted the reality around me nor the one given me, so I embarked on a personal journey to gain knowledge, like all the old-aged masters before us in any area you can name.

But like all knowledge, you can pervert it and abuse it. Some PUAS (not suggesting seddit, I don't know them, but other website), are alot like investors that become insiders using inside information and/or market manipulators - it's for pure profit and they don't care who gets hurt in the process. The game becomes a system they play, not unlike their former days as video gamers, because systems are easy, unemotional and completely about numbers. You can go on autopilot and not give damn about what you do, just do the tactics and techniques and you will eventually see results.

The PUA community gave some men a play card by which to elevate themselves from the drudgery of being AFC or average to being something more and for some that was inspirational. The douches I dislike might be the kind that tries to bed your gf just to do it, that would ruin your relationship, not give a damn, label you an AFC, and tell you you deserved it because she was a cheating whore.

There's alot of assholes in the community, too. Alot of them are guys in high school and college that are out taking advantage of young, dumb girls doing this on the basis that if they consent, then they got what they deserved. This isn't all men, but certainly it's the dark underbelly of the community that is more prevalent on alot of sites.

I do feel that if alot more men had self-awareness in these areas, perhaps more relationships and marriages could have been saved, more happiness sown, more relational engagement had. For me, when the search started, it was about communicating better, thinking in different and improved ways, learning skills like how to give a pleasurable massage and/or a sexual one, learning about the female body beyond porn to give mind-blowing orgasms, to be an honorable man, etc.

There are some "gurus" as they go which see to do well, but ah, like Lord Voldemort seeking more knowledge once he had a taste, or Anaken of the Star Wars movies, many ran off even deeper. Some men are themselves so broken, they are like chimps with a gun. Yet others are truly good men that used the community and the material, became much more, then moved on and became who they were born to be. It was merely a journey.

And...then there are men that aren't even part of the community that do their fair share of damage, whoring, using, abusing and mind-fucking too, so it isn't just the community, it's the misuse of what can be a good idea and solid knowledge that becomes the problem with any community.

skepticnick · 2010-11-06T18:30:03+00:00

you my friend are the exception not the rule

tactics · 2010-11-07T01:35:49+00:00

Seduction is a branch of self-help. The ultimate premise is that you can make changes to your life to be happier.

The problem seduction addresses is that many guys have serious trouble in their dating lives. More so than they can't find the girl they want -- they can't get dates at all!

So all of what you read here is theory on why these guys can't get dates and what needs to be done to change that.

Keep in mind that seduction is just like any other kind of self-help. It's a mixed bag of people who honestly want to help and self-interested "gurus" who are concerned with making money and feeling important themselves. Take everything you read about seduction with a bucket of salt.

Why is being an alpha male so important?

The general consensus among the community is that success with women is directly related to behavior. Some behaviors are more likely to be attractive to girls, and others are likely to repulse them.

The problem many guys have is that they are taught wrong. As boys, they are raised by their single-parent mothers with no male role models. They hear about sexual harassment and scandals and they become ashamed of their sexuality. And they are told they must do well in school and at work, which serves to further emasculate them, teaching them to always play by the rules.

In short, they are bred to be pussies.

On average, women tend to be attracted to this, not that.

I think even though the community throws around the "alpha" word a lot, what they really mean to say is guys need to "man up" a bit if you want a date. You don't have to be the most powerful guy in the room, but you can't be the weakest.

How acceptable is it to judge women based on their sex appeal? Are PUAs out purely for meaningless sex, or do they actually take a girl's personality into account?

Men don't want sex for sex's sake. What they really want is to fuel their egos.

How hot a girl is isn't terribly important in bed. There's a base level of attractiveness you need, but as long as you're attracted at all, sex will make you feel good about yourself.

How hot a girl is becomes much more important when validating yourself to others. For example, say you slept with the hottest girl in the world.... and she was absolutely terrible in bed. She just lied there. Afterwards, she cried. You felt miserable the whole time. But if you ever tell your friends you slept with her (without going into detail), you will seem much cooler to them.

Personality, of course, is hugely important, especially if you're going to see a girl more than once.

So how important looks are becomes a deeply personal question. And I don't think there's a straight answer for it, regardless who you're talking about.

Do PUAs consider a woman's desires as well as their own? Can a PUA "take a hint", so to speak?

One important lesson I've learned since I started getting interested in seduction is that the decisions people make are very dependent on the actions of others.

One example would be getting an inhibited girl to sleep with you. Many girls are ashamed of their sexuality, but desire it. This leads to lots of morally grey scenarios. Is it "right" for the guy to encourage the girl to drink, so she can lower her inhibitions? If she regrets it later, then probably not. If it leads to a happy relationship, then probably yes. But without knowing the outcome (which is inherently unpredictable), you can't make a solid judgment on it.

Guys should be encouraged to apply light pressure. If a girl says 'no' because she doesn't want to seem slutty (but she does want sex), then moving forward allows her the chance to enjoy what she wants. But if a girl says 'no' because she really doesn't want sex (or because she is absolutely terrified of feeling like a slut), then for the love of god, back the fuck off.

The line is blurry. But it's just an inherent risk you run having sex. It's the same as the risk of being sued if you run a business or being shot if you're in office. The only perfectly safe life is none at all.

Why is "LJBF" so undesirable? I mean, it's great making new friends, isn't it?

LJBF is undesirable because, by definition, it's a situation where a guy wants to have a romantic relationship, but it isn't reciprocated.

It goes back to the original problem. You want a date, but you can't find a girl who will give you the chance.

It's a matter of expectation management. Making new friends is great -- if that's what you are expecting.

Say you're talking to a girl you like. She's warm, friendly, and maybe even flirty with you. You think you have a chance with her. A day or two later, you ask her out. And she turns you down (often, without a clear reason).

After a few times, it gets very, very frustrating.

How do PUAs react to people in the LBGT group? If you're an "alpha male", is (male) homosexuality a threat to your masculinity?

I don't think the seduction community has a strong consensus on alternative sexualities. The core philosophies generally hinge on traditional gender roles. The aim is to teach men to be men. While this may seem to be in direct opposition to LBGT beliefs, both the LBGT and seduction communities are attempts to solve the same problem: aiding people live satisfying sexual lifestyles.

Again, this is a deeply personal question. I can only speak for myself. I am very open to alternative lifestyles. I am all for open sexuality. But I believe that traditional gender roles evolved in human culture for good reasons and that for the majority of people, they provide an adequate baseline models for how we should act. Regardless of the existence of gays, boys and girls are fundamentally different in a few important ways, and those differences should be accounted for.

Further to that, any bisexual or gay sedditors here?

I wouldn't say I'm bisexual, but I keep an open mind. I have propositioned a straight couple for a threesome before. I know there are a few lesbians who use this subreddit. My opinion is that most gay guys don't need PU, because sex is more accessible in the gay community.

I guess my biggest question is: Why not just be yourself? Be up-front about your desires? Why not meet women through friends, or work, or common interests?

That's actually several questions.

And you don't really have a good appreciation for how difficult some people have it.

Maybe you're naturally good looking and well socialized. But not everyone is. I have a friend who is 25 and still a virgin. I, personally, will often go 6+ months without sex. It sucks :P

"Just be yourself" (along with "just be confident in yourself") is one of the most toted pieces of advice for guys with difficulty. It's great advice, because it's so easy to give. It makes the person giving the advice feel like they have done something useful.

In reality, they haven't.

My belief is that there isn't just one way "to be yourself". There is a wide spectrum of people each of us are fully capable of being. I have been the terribly depressed tac-tics. I have been the hopelessly infatuated tac-tics. I have been the assholish, cool tac-tics. Lately, I have been the tac-tics who wants to get into your pants, but I'm still a good guy tac-tics.

So there's still an unresolved question: which "you" will make you the happiest?

Meeting girls through your social circle is great -- if it's an option. Many guys don't have a lot of friends... or at least the kinds of friends who know women. My circle of friends (before I took up dancing) was a close knit group. I rarely met new people through them. My coworkers are all 40+ years old. I took cooking, drawing, and improv after college, but it wasn't until I started dance that I ever met anyone I could date.

So again, keep in mind this isn't easy for everyone.

Being up-front is an important lesson taught in seduction. I think the hard part is finding socially acceptable ways to show that interest. You (usually) can't just try and kiss a girl. For heaven's sake, you don't ask her if she likes you!! A solid way to express interest is to ask her for her number after you meet her and invite her out. But there are many factors that get in the way of that.

The hardest part is usually meeting her to begin with.

Most seduction advice is geared towards "cold approach" pickup. That is, girls you have absolutely no relationship with. "Warm approach" (aka. social circle pickup) is a million times easier... if you have the large, fluid social circle to facilitate it.

After that, being able to talk to her, build some rapport is the next hurdle. The guys that don't have a ton of friends don't because they have trouble when interacting with strangers. It's a learned skill, like any other. I used to downright suck. But having learned the basics of seduction (specially selecting the aspects I approve of from the bullshit that gets thrown around) have significantly helped my confidence.

squigs · 2010-11-06T15:05:16+00:00

Not actually a PUA but I do use some of the tips.

Why is being an alpha male so important?

It's not essential. But the alpha male does get the pick of any girl he wants.

How acceptable is it to judge women based on their sex appeal? Are PUAs out purely for meaningless sex, or do they actually take a girl's personality into account?

Everyone does it. While "sex appeal" may depend on the person, nobody who is after a relationship ignores what they find attractive. Personality can matter. It depends on what you find attractive.

Do PUAs consider a woman's desires as well as their own? Can a PUA "take a hint", so to speak?

If you get as far as needing to take the hint you've been too pushy. The point is to be more attractive. Not to force women into bed.

Why is "LJBF" so undesirable? I mean, it's great making new friends, isn't it?

Sure. But most PUAs are actually decent guys who are likeable. They can make friends. That's all they ever manage.

How do PUAs react to people in the LBGT group? If you're an "alpha male", is (male) homosexuality a threat to your masculinity?

Gay guys are just guys. Having friends - gay or straight - is a good thing.

I guess my biggest question is: Why not just be yourself? Be up-front about your desires? Why not meet women through friends, or work, or common interests?

Okay - this is me - I'm shy. I find it really hard to talk to a stranger. My instinct is not to make eye contact, and certainly not make physical contact. I get nervous under pressure, and flirting was always a high pressure situation for me.

So that's myself. Do you think a girl might find that attractive? No. But there are ways to be more attractive. Be confident. Ask questions. Relate to what interests the person you're talking to.

Friends - there are only about two single girls in my social group. I'm not interested in one, the other one I had a relationship with...

Common interests? I'm a geek! All my interests are highly male dominated. That's not actually true, but I've yet to meet an attractive woman at a dance class or Trapeze class who's actually single.

2010-11-06T16:05:18+00:00

I'm going to address only your second point:

How acceptable is it to judge women based on their sex appeal?

Why is it judging somebody based on their sense of humor, their compassion, or any other trait is considered better than judging on looks? There is nothing inherently wrong or good with either of them.

dark180 · 2010-11-06T16:29:50+00:00

Dont equate pua = guy who wants to bang or pua = asshole. In my personal experience a PUA is a person that understands social dynamics and can use them in his advantage to present himself as the best form of himself. While yes, you can find canned materials in here or some gimmicks you can use, most of them are designed to give you confidence and let your true self come out. Society has a way of repressing who we are and i didnt even realize it until i started reading pua materials. For example have you ever gotten into a packed bus and even though the thing was full, no one was talking. You are bored, the people around you are bored, why not strike up a conversation with any1 to make it more fun? Normally i would just sit there like a lemming and wait for my stop, why? i dont even know why (its just the thing to do?). Now i am able to strike up a conversation with pretty much any1 and you would be surprised on how many people are open to talk on a bus/metro. How many times have u seen som1 that you would like to talk to whether its on a street a coffee place or a mall and the only thing that stopped you from doing it was yourself? .To conclude i think the pua material ( i wish we could coin another term for it bc pua sonds douchey) has enabled the true self to break out. Even thought the troll flag is blinking and your questions where a little slanted, i appreciate your open minded mentality and the questions

dark180 · 2010-11-06T16:39:44+00:00

just wanted to touch on your "an a PUA "take a hint", so to speak?" question. I might have misunderstood the question but here is my go. PUAs are the best one in taking hints, depending on how deep you get into the material, you get into the psychological of how people act and why they do it. A good PUA strives to be able to understand and read the social dynamics of the situation and act accordingly. An example for this is, while opening a set try and look at their feet, usually if they change the direction of where their feet are pointing to open up the circle to include you, that means that their are accepting you, if they only turn around their torso to you, that means that u grabbed their attention just for a bit and most likely they are going back to their previous convo soon.

2010-11-06T16:51:28+00:00

Why is being an alpha male so important?

Being Alpha Male helps in a lot more ways personally for me then with PUA. I walk into a new group of people I do not feel shy or awkward. I am comfortable talking to everyone and cracking jokes. I run a company so you gotta be Alpha Male when it comes to dealing with clients, employees, and contractors. Almost all good sales guys are. You gotta walk in to the prospect with confidence, posture, smile on your face, sell them comfort and trust.

How acceptable is it to judge women based on their sex appeal? Are PUAs out purely for meaningless sex, or do they actually take a girl's personality into account?

If it is a one night stand then personality is very low verse sex appeal. If it will be an on going thing then personality does play a role. When the personality clicks, sex is much better. Different people are out for different things. Personally I like a relationship with out all the trappings and restrictions of a relationship.

Do PUAs consider a woman's desires as well as their own? Can a PUA "take a hint", so to speak?

Sex is a game where you are both trying to win over and over again. You gotta help out your team mate or no one will really score.

Why is "LJBF" so undesirable? I mean, it's great making new friends, isn't it?

Again personally for me I only have a few close friends. The women that I end up being good friends with usually are similar to my other friends. They like to drink a lot, go out to eat, swap stories about people we hooked up with, sports, politics, etc. Generally they are Alpha Females.

How do PUAs react to people in the LBGT group? If you're an "alpha male", is (male) homosexuality a threat to your masculinity?

I have clients that are gay, friends that are gay, trannies, relatives that are gay, etc. Not sure why you would ever be threatened or anything like that.

I guess my biggest question is: Why not just be yourself? Be up-front about your desires?

When I was in HS I was super shy in big groups and when meeting new people. I had to really think hard what to say and was worried about what people thought of me. I spent a lot of time changing that.

For me it doesn't really have to do with "being yourself". Myself has a lot of different layers. My business self where I am pretty cold and calculating? Where I am always thinking with about clients? Or where I talk with my guy friends about sports, or religion, or politics, women, or debating, etc. That is not what most women want to hear. Once both become comfortable, you lower your defenses, she lowers hers, and then I am pretty much that dorky kid in HS.

Why not meet women through friends, or work, or common interests?

Women through friends makes everything more complicated. I have to be careful about my twitter, fb, etc etc. I try to lead a very simple stress free life. When I get involved with that I have to deal with all the drama of everyone else. I own a company and I do not want to get involved with any of my clients. I've met a lot of girls through my common interests of drinking.

crocodile7 · 2010-11-06T16:53:23+00:00

Why is being an alpha male so important?

It makes attracting and keeping women easier in the initial stages of a relationship. When you're playing the field and trying to score, then the alpha male behavior helps. In a LTR of 2 years, individual characteristics and compatibility are more important.

How acceptable is it to judge women based on their sex appeal? Are PUAs out purely for meaningless sex, or do they actually take a girl's personality into account?

Before you meet a woman, she has no (known) personality. Sex appeal comes first, but then a nasty personality can ruin the attraction. If you don't find a girl attractive enough to have sex with, personality doesn't matter at all.

Do PUAs consider a woman's desires as well as their own? Can a PUA "take a hint", so to speak?

Reciprocity is important in a relationship. Close loving relationship should not feel like a chore and hard work. However, in the beginning most relationships are like this. This lasts until people learn that they will not be taken advantage of, and that giving freely will be reciprocated (which is unfortunately, not done by 90% of women out there). Women in western societies are selfish -- how often do you hear about women considering the guy's desires?

Why is "LJBF" so undesirable? I mean, it's great making new friends, isn't it?

If you have sexual interest in a woman, you don't want her as a friend. It's a waste of resources. Women rarely act as supportive, true friends who will actually help you out. In fact, but the very act of rejecting your sexual advances, they're being inconsiderate. From the outset, she is not a friend, she is an acquaintance you might benefit from.

How do PUAs react to people in the LBGT group? If you're an "alpha male", is (male) homosexuality a threat to your masculinity?

Not at all. Homosexuality is a non-issue, except for the minor theoretical benefit of decreased competition.

I guess my biggest question is: Why not just be yourself? Be up-front about your desires? Why not meet women through friends, or work, or common interests?

It does not work in America today. If you live in southern Europe or east Asia, this would be a good way. Our society is very alienated compared to earlier times and other places. This model may let you meet a woman occasionally, but not often enough to have a satisfying sexual life, and does not offer you enough choice to have a chance of choosing a good woman for a long-term relationship.

Unless you're improbably lucky, you end up getting locked into the first good-enough girl who comes along, ignoring her flaws, marrying out of fear of being alone. Years later, you get divorced and wiped out, or languish in an unsatisfying marriage.

When looking for a job, would you rather choose from 10 potential offers, or be locked into the first one that comes along and is good enough?

Dantai · 2010-11-06T18:18:23+00:00

I'm here because I wanted to improve my success with women, other people may be here because they have no idea what they do wrong, right etc. I do agree with being yourself; seddit helps advise people to be their best selves through means of things like better speech, posture, body language and methods to gain and feel confident. This is natural game. Some have it, some don't and others work for it.

ctoph · 2010-11-06T18:27:25+00:00

I think your preconceived idea of what pick up is causes you to see things incorrectly. So, rather than answer your questions I'm just gonna tell you how I think about it which I think will clear up alot of your misconceptions.

What pick up is from a standpoint of all the book stuff is about giving structure to how you think about social interactions. While every social interaction is somewhat unique in reality most of them are close enough that they can pretty much be regarded as the same. Same with people, while all girls are unique to varying degrees there are certainly areas where certain actions will be pretty much universally preferred (just as a result of culture or evolution or whatever).

When I think about it I always use sports as a metaphor. Most people never really think about what they are doing, they are like a pick up team they don't really run an offense or have any strategy and because of that they may get beat by a team that has less talent but more organization. Pick up at its center is the realization that through practice and strategy you can get better and be more then just the sum or your parts.

Now, I think what really gets people feeling like this is bad is the idea of strategy. This is where I think people start to feel that it is about manipulation. At its best I would call what your doing putting your best foot forward, which is what we should always trying to be anyway. At its worst, its being dishonest but no more dishonest in my mind then make up, high heels, etc.

As I said earlier, taking it for granted that certain general characteristics are pretty much preferred by everyone (confidence, etc) you want to show that you have those characteristics. A thing I read once that I thought was pretty spot on was the idea that as people we are ladder climbers. No one wants to have sex, or date someone they perceive as being beneath them. We want to be accepted by people that we perceive as being above us (high class). So, now you tailor your behavior (while still being yourself) to give off this image. You are an active participant in how people perceive you. Not thinking about these things is tantamount to not thinking about clothing,cleanliness, etc. Everything you do says something about you that for better or worse is going to result in some judgment from the people around you.

This is where a lot of the "techniques" come in (negs,AMOGing,etc.). I think the neg especially comes off bad but when you think about what it really is, its just teasing. We tease people that we are close and comfortable with. Hence it sort of implants the message that you are comfortable and on the same level(if not higher). Another aspect of remaining socially superior in her mind is the idea that the person of lesser value qualifies themselves to a person of higher value. This is why people recommend that you do not buy drinks or give praise (or even attention) right away. Even though she might not realize it on conscious level on a subconscious level you are sending the message that you are beneath her which is not desirable. Buying a drink is saying that you don't believe she will stay for free. Being an alpha male is important because it is one of those very pervasive qualities that are desirable. Alpha male isn't the way your thinking of it. I would not describe the alpha male as some big ultra manly guy. Being an alpha male is about leading, driving conversation, being the coolest/most confident person in the group. With that definition obviously there is no homophobia associated with being an alpha.

So basically with pick up you think of all social interactions like a sport. You can get better at it with practice. By realizing that situations often repeat themselves you can develop strategies and you can learn from past experiences what works and what doesn't.

LJBF is undesirable because it was not the goal. No one gets a LJBF speech from someone they are not making a move on. She isn't saying I really want to be your friend she is saying I think I can do better.

As i said before none of this is not being yourself. You are merely being conscious of the fact that everything you do affects how you are perceived and this allows you to avoid certain pitfalls and not miss possible opportunities. You still can and should be meeting women through friends or work or common interest.

punkerdante182 · 2010-11-06T20:13:37+00:00

Your a natural man. All of this stuff? Dating, women, relationships. That came natural to you. Us? Well we missed that class for one reason or another. Since your new I'll go through each of these.

1) Alpha male isn't necessarily an alpha male but the best version of yourself. The dirty little secret about meeting people is that your there to advertise yourself in one way or another. Being the best version of yourself under the title of being "Alpha" is a way to put a name to the mindset

2) We want sex, is that all we want? Nope BUT face it we're not going to be in a sexless relationship because we want to experience that part of being human. PUA's aren't our for meaningless sex their out for having fun, if that's sex awesome, if it's having a great conversation with a women thats attracted to you or a man that respects you then awesome.

3) PUA's consider women's desires MORE than other men. If your the "nice guy" your sticking around in the delusion that she wants to be friends with you, if your an asshole then who the fuck cares about what she wants. PUA's on the other hand read what women want and let them feel unshamed about it

3) Let me make a difference between ljbf and true male female friends. Ljbf is disrespectful to another man. It is a girl saying "yea I know he wants me but I don't want him so I'll keep him around cause he boosts my self-esteem or is a nice guy. It is a one sided relationship, a true women friend is someone that respects you as a man but because of either morals, relationship status, some other valid reason you guys just aren't attracted to each other. It's a two-sided equal realtionship

4) Seriously you kidding me with this lbgt thing? This is reddit it'd be easier to find a virgin prostitute than a homeophobic redditor, moving on.

5) I'm sure there are

6) Ourselves sucked. Ourselves kept getting in the friend zone, ourselves kept us from having the meaningful relationships. So we changed ourselves. Or at least a part of ourselves and got out there.

2010-11-06T20:58:52+00:00

Why not just be yourself? Be up-front about your desires? Why not meet women through friends, or work, or common interests?

It is about being yourself, and that is why women or men will take interest in you when you try to pick them up. Techniques to meet someone and make a connection are helpful.

2010-11-06T22:21:15+00:00

Further to that, any bisexual or gay sedditors here?

Gay guy here.

How do PUAs react to people in the LBGT group? If you're an "alpha male", is (male) homosexuality a threat to your masculinity?

I'll try to rephrase your question to make it a little easier to answer. "What role does the homosexual play in the heterosexual mating process?" I think that conveys the meaning of your question and I'll try my best to answer it.

If there is a gay man in a group he can make or break the aspiring heterosexual man who is trying to make sexual (or nonsexual) advances towards a female friend. For example, if one of my female friends is being hit on, she will usually, look to me for approval before flirting back. In addition, the gay man can play both the masculine and the feminine roles more easily. He can AMOG and he can give approval. He can be the unbiased judge that women will turn to. But, to answer your question: yes, the gay man can definitely be a potential obstacle. However, gay men have to put up with a lot of AMOGing in general, (bullying etc.) and will usually win if you try to play games with them. That is, if you AMOG a gay men, they will cock-block the shit out of you. This goes double when you are trying to attract the gay man's friend. The best thing to do if there's a gay guy in the set is try befriend him to win his approval and thus access to his female friends.

Do PUAs consider a woman's desires as well as their own? Can a PUA "take a hint", so to speak?

lilninjalee · 2010-11-07T05:13:44+00:00

This clip explains it all.

Title	Just stumbled upon seddit, and...
Author	asmodi
Upvotes	71
Comments	74
Date	November 6, 2010 11:37 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/e23qt/just_stumbled_upon_seddit_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/just-stumbled-upon-seddit-and.1312776 https://theredarchive.com/post/1312776

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