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Strategic Thinking Help Needed – Boundary Violation Consequences

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June 15, 2019
10 upvotes

I need strategic counsel for my gathering war party...

For those who don’t read my OYS, I live in a small town while my wife and kids are 5 hours away in the city. A new job (@50% current income is 1-2 years away) Meanwhile, I have a monster of a commute every weekend and I don’t see my kids as much as I want.

I have been the ultimate plow horse and BetaBuxx provider up to this point, stupendously unaware of my own learned helplessness and irrational fears regarding a 5’4 108 pound fairly attractive meat puppet. I have had unclearly defined and poorly enforced boundaries, and recognize that her ridiculous behavior is completely enabled by me continuing to provide resources for it.

I’m about 2 months into MRP and slowly taking my life back. My wife clearly does not respect me much, and has just now passed a significant boundary that I need to respond to vigorously. I want those who have been through this before to weigh in on what I'm missing or going to be blindsided by.

BOUNDARY: After putting a hold on her credit card for ignoring budget constraints several times, she reactivated it AND REMOVED ME FROM THE ACCOUNT. She then promptly spent another $700 on a horse show she doesn't have money to go to.....while remaining sweet and nice to me over the phone.

GOAL: protect the treasury. I alone will fund, control, and govern the income/savings/and expenses of this family “corporation.” I currently have a co-pilot who does not respect that, and thinks she can continue to abuse the “corporate credit card” without consequence. There must be consequences and she must be demoted from her autonomous financial controls.

I already control all the checking accounts. I have no control over her card....or her spending so far.

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There are a lot of financial variables that I need to include because the decision tree requires them:

VARIABLE A: Her credit card previously had a budget of $1000/week. She subsequently ran up $5,700 unpaid debt, I placed a hold on the card, and informed her she gets $300/wk in gift cards until it is paid off. Totally blown through.

The problem is that I can’t close the card. I’m not on the account. I’ve spoken to the company and they won’t give me anymore information. I control the online account, but have no way to limit or control it from there. It maxes out at 12K.

VARIABLE B: Her parents no longer pay for her rent in the city condo per their agreement. She assumes I will just cover the $2,800 per month for the next 3 months until she can move out.

VARIABLE C: We are building a second home in the city near where she wants to live. We have 60-70K down already, and the house will be finished in about 3 months. We signed all the paperwork jointly, but have not signed for the mortgage yet.

However, I really like the house and area, and think it would be amazing for our kids...full support from me. But I also think it is retarded to buy a house in an area you don’t have a job. If I get a job elsewhere, we will have to sell it. She said she understands this….she says a lot of things.

VARIABLE D: Most of the food is spent on a Target Red Card that I pay. 800-1000/month.

VARIABLE E: The horse... I bought a very expensive horse for her instead of a Tesla for me several years ago. It is her hobby and her passion. It is fundamentally one of the reasons she wanted to move to the city, because there were no show barns near us and she was driving 2 hours a day to train.

She has blown through a lot of money pursuing this lifestyle, taking several weeks a year to travel for shows and racking up a lot of money. I expected some of this, but she has pushed way past, and I’ve fought her on it several times. I currently pay $2,500/ month for lessons/board/and grooming for the horse without including shows.

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POTENTIAL RESPONSES:

TIER 1 – stop funding everything. If you can’t abide corporate rules, you lose corporate privileges. Your debts are not my problem. I give her $300 a week for food for the kids, and pay for the kids’ activities on my card.

Privileges come back at $500/week on her card (to which monthly rent is deducted) once she makes me the primary account holder on this credit card so that I can close it in the future if needed.

Consequences:

  1. she ignores me and runs up the credit card to 12K (I can handle this consequence)….but maybe she requests a higher limit. Big problem! (HOW THE FUCK DO I CLOSE HER CARD?)
  2. My credit gets dinged when she doesn’t pay rent to the condo or horse barn. It’s over 800, so I don’t know how much it will bring it down. Nor do I know how long it will take to build it back up. But that could seriously impact real estate investing in the future if I have to personally back my first few projects…

TIER 2 – do not allow her into the new house. Seize control and resell it with an agent. I’ve reached out to my attorney to see if there is a way to do this before we sign for the mortgage.

Consequences:

  1. If I can’t seize control, I have to walk away and lose the 60K downpayment...
  2. Divorce threats – not my first choice. But at this point, I can’t live with this financial behavior, so I would embrace it and move forward if she chose to.

TIER 3 – Sell the horse. It would be the thing that hurt her the most. She seriously might pick the horse over me in a fight :) (It’s irrational.)

Consequences:

  1. Divorce likely– same as above

CURRENT PLAN: My wife is clearly a spoiled, entitled, rich girl who views me the same as her wealthy step-dad. I’m not. I am pursuing Tier 1, and pre-planning Tier 2 needs through my attorney.

Obviously, something has to give if we are going to take a 50% future pay cut and assume a mortgage on a second home. All of this has been laid out to her over the last 6 months several times. I want to continue to pursue a high savings rate to put money into real estate for more passive income and am unwilling to give that up for a consumption lifestyle.

Questions:

1)Where am I being dense and where am I going to get blind sided?

2) Where can I be more effective?

3) How much to I signal/disclose the consequences to her vs. just keep my mouth shut and just let them happen? (For all I know, she is reading this…) To avoid the passive-aggressive approach, I think me just calmly informing her that she did something unacceptable in this relationship and explaining the response is in order.

4) I’m also struggling with how to handle the next 2 weeks. We are doing family vacation together and spending a lot of time together with the kids. I feel like I have the option of just treating her like a teenager who is being grounded, but still part of the family (and not paying for a damn thing.) But I’m not sure if that is the best way forward. If I tell her not to come until she gets her shit sorted, she keeps the kids and I go on vacation alone….

Thanks for your time in advance.

Flame away.

inb4 I already know I was a faggot prior to 2 months ago

-----------------------

EDIT: Lots of feedback to deal with here. Please see my UPDATE2 linked below.


Post Information
Title Strategic Thinking Help Needed – Boundary Violation Consequences
Author ComteDeBetamax
Upvotes 10
Comments 119
Date 15 June 2019 10:25 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/242156
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/c12x7u/strategic_thinking_help_needed_boundary_violation/
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[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy

When you edit the post too many times the Automoderator flags it as spam and removes it.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"22 points23 points  (14 children) | Copy

Dude, I started but couldn't finish. Besides I've been pissing around on here too much the last couple days.

Do our experiences really apply?

I'm a master boundary-maker, but one of my boundaries is my family lives with me, in my house and it has yet to be broken.

I forget why you're in these bizarre circumstances but I recall it's definitely because you're a pussy, the kind of guy who would say "flame away."

Deep down inside you recognize that the only boundary left is precisely the boundary you are so afraid of: handing her the papers.

You're only going to be on this planet once. Either you'll choose to demand self-respect (much different and more vital than respect) or you won't.

Stop believing that you're on some grand journey to re-engage your lost, forgotten, and noble manhood.

Either be a man or don't be a man.

You know the fucking answer, you just don't want to confront it

Edit: I read your original OYS. You are pathetic, particularly needy, and already know that your wife is a bitch, a bitch who's not interested in living under the same roof as you.

Do you know what a normal wife does when they don't see their husband in a while? They get upset. Not yours. Yours pines away for a new fucking horse, denying you your dumbass self-esteem-building Tesla.

Clearly, looking in the mirror and respecting the big, cool surgeon staring back is not on your list of priorities.

And for such a fucking smart surgeon, that you are unable to solve this stupid fucking issue on your own is, well, enlightening. I pity the poor bastards who go under your knife.

I know a lot about surgeons. So many assholes in one career it's astounding. So many saving the world, like god himself, virtually all with god-complexes, yet incapable of managing themselves. Too much time with your nose buried in books while your formative years passed like so many browning leaves in the fall. Time to make up for it, right? Buy her a horse, then buy her a house. But of course, endorse her plan to live under a different roof. And, of course, move to the town she wants to move to, reducing your salary to satisfy her whims.

"Rescue" her some more, as you so tritely say, when in reality you think you're rescuing yourself, from yourself, while succeeding in nothing more than the perpetuation of your own pathetic, misguided, self-pitying shitpile of a life and all its associated shitty behavior.

Here's an idea: rob a bank so you can finance her next horse, pay off her credit cards, and get her some jewelry.

Or maybe you can use your surgical skills to join the chinese organ harvesting trade.

Asshole.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

100 replies in askMRP

Clearly a dumpster fire.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

I'm a master boundary-maker, but one of my boundaries is my family lives with me, in my house and it has yet to be broken.

By the end of my writing, I recognized that this is the fundamental issue I have to tackle. Might as well make it now...

I guess I'm having the main event.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"11 points12 points  (11 children) | Copy

I guess I'm having the main event.

W&S is going to tell me I'm wasting my time, if he's not too busy patenting his amazing technological breakthrough.

And every time he's told me that in the past he's been right.

What you wrote, and what I quoted, is stated so goddamned passively, like an innocuous wave breaking on the shoreline. Like something that's happening, with or without you. Like inertia itself.

That's the name for your marriage, dude: inertia.

But it's the whore's (horse) not yours.

Time out. I need to acknowledge that: (1) Whore's, (2) horse, (3) yours. Not bad. Okay, back to reality...

That's part of your fucking problem, bro. You are (1) clearly lacking in self-esteem, (2) clearly afraid of being alone, (3) clearly even more afraid of your fucking cunt wife whom I hate just by reading your dumbass post and your even more unsavory OYS, (4) maybe even afraid of not spending enough time with your kids - if so read red's recent statement on that, and (5) well, who needs a fifth.

But what are you really, really afraid of?

Sometimes I can be especially nasty to the pussies in this haven of hell, but I've already acknowledged previously that there's a component of caring - giving a shit - larger than most likely have - that goes into this for me. Why? Well maybe I'm gay. Maybe not.

But more likely, it's because I received something in return that I feel a compulsion to give back.

Back to my question, what are you really afraid of? It's one or more of the following:

  • You will forever be alone, because you are not good enough.
  • You will have failed, which means you are a failure.
  • You will lose the respect, admiration, and perhaps love of your children.
  • You will never experience love again.
  • Maybe, even, you will die alone.

Bro, it's clear that these concerns come from a place of scarcity. Who knows why. Is it important to know why? I don't think so. It's more practical to understand that your position is not unique. So many men (and women, too, I'm not so big on misogyny, let's face it your wife is a bitch, but you're a pussy, which is worse) before you have experienced these exact same emotions.

The point of MRP - not ask - and the point of the sidebar - is to learn practical applications to help you navigate these waters.

I commented not too long ago about some fuckhead pining away over a woman - a woman who is just flesh and blood - and a woman who is actually 1/3.5 billionth of the female population. Stop and think about that for a moment, preferably while sober and without a gun in your hand.

Why are you so fucking focused on your "1-in-a-billion" - in a particularly bad way - shitty, bitchy, spoiled, blue-blooded, horse-riding, whore-of-a-wife?

Why?

It has nothing on god's green earth to do with her, but, instead, everything to do with you and specifically, your own feelings of inadequacy.

Deal with your own inadequacies, but take it from all of us - with no exceptions - and understand that (1) your wife is a whore, (2) your wife is really an asshole, (3) your wife fucking rides horses recreationally, christ don't girls grow out of that at, like, age 13, and (4) your wife wants to live by herself but have either [a] her fat, balding, boring-ass executive father who enables this shit, or [b] you, enable this lifestyle, a lifestyle that must, must involve one or more side pieces for when her (always gone) husband and nearby horse is not around.

Fuck that, soldier surgeon.

  • Butch up.
  • Man up.
  • Be a man.

(And go to Ibiza get a divorce.)

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

All this Ibiza talk makes me want to check it out.

[–]weakandsensitive3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

my ai flight finder was pulling up MSP-Ibiza for <$500 a couple weeks ago. it was <$400 from the east coast.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

You're not wasting your time...this is incredibly helpful. And I'm up to the task. (I couldn't say that 2 months ago.)

I had no INTERNAL frame and lived in total EXTERNAL expectations for a long time. I ignored what I wanted in life. So I blew in the wind, and only saw the options others placed before me.

You're right that doctors (myself included) are about 10 years slower at maturing because we live in books and our heads for too long...so I'm a little slow to the party.

My primary fear was always the threat of DIVORCE (religious/public validation and other now irrelevant drivers) and she occassionally used it to manipulate. I'm over that as of 2-3 months ago. I hit that bottom hard enough and I've embraced what that life looks like even though I don't want it. My secondary concern has always been having the KIDS grow up in the best environment. I always assumed that was an intact family, even if we didn't relate well. You guys have clearly elucidated that not to be the case. I don't want my daughters growing up to marry a spineless blob because that was the male role model in the house. I see that now.

***The problem I'm faced with now is that I have created a hole so fucking deep that my feeble attempts to reclaim little boundaries are drops in the bucket.*** I could just go Rambo and lay down the law, but the changes are so monumental that there is real risk of blowing up something that could have been done incrementally. I don't really know.

And she knows I've never enforced jack shit, so I kinda feel the need to start small and escalate. There is also a feeling that I've really fucked up and fixing my shit comes first. Then fixing the shit that affects me day to day. And then fixing the shit that I already screwed up in the past like buying the house and not enforcing boundaries on the horse. **But truthfully, that is probably just nice guy thinking attached to guilt.** (I don't need to honor my old mistakes and CAN make demands right now)

I really doubt my wife wants to divorce me (not being naive, just gut read....if she does, then fine). She wants to manipulate me. She just an entitled brat who grew up rich and expects me to live to that standard. (And I was the hapless dupe for as long as she could make it work). She does not respect me in that regard at all. She DOES respect me in most others, and I'm very competent, capable, and accomplished in all the other aspects of my life driven by external validators ( while being woefully inept with the desires and boundaries from my internal locus that I have ignored).

It's a lot to fix all at once.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy

I was going to reply one more time, but realized that I am woefully underserved when it come to religion. What are you so afraid of? God won't like you? The community will excommunicate you?

Why does it even fucking matter when (1) you are hundreds of miles away, and (2) you're leaving for a new location anyway?

That doesn't make sense to me, but nor does a red suited, fat, gift-bearing dude who rides reindeer and plays with elves.

Shit, wrong guy.

Up 'till now I've thought you were (1) 100% full of shit, (2) lying to yourself and us, (3) making excuses to avoid rejection, and (4) just generally weak and not worthy of love, admiration, or anything much positive.

But now you've thrown out religion. Given my comment about towns-away and moving anyway, how is that keeping you from divorcing?

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] -4 points-3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Religion is irrelevant at this point. It's not holding me back.

I want to salvage this, or fail trying.

To be honest, the dialog below has helped me understand that some of her bahavior may have been an escape from me....

I think she is sexually attracted to me. I don't think she ever wants to divorce me.

I also think I had no fucking clue how to handle her spoiled bitchiness in the past, and I passive-aggressively used to avoid her and not want to have sex with her. That meant I threw myself into work and other things more to not spend time with her. She was a lonely housewife at home, who would not cheat in her nature.

So, I'm starting to think some of this was a "way out" from that conflict for her. She is anxious-avoidant by nature, and will reject herself before being rejected by others. By extricating herself from town and taking up with the horse, she eases the anxiety she has about me not wanting her. As others have said, their wives get upset when they're not there...

My passive-aggressive came from having no internal locus, and always living conflicted doing shit I didn't really want to. I have a good fix on that now and better tools to make improvements.

Reigning in the betabuxx deep hole is probably a secondary issue over top of this primary avoidant one....

I do think she is a good wife worth salvaging a family with in the end.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

You've got an answer for everything.

We've all seen dudes like you.

I quit, you win.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm appreciative of your input and for challenging my thinking.

Not claiming I'm right or wrong, but thanks for taking the time.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

[–]UnPussified0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

ROFL...

This should be a required entrance-fitness test EVERY NewB here.

Lesson 1: Here are the tools.

Lesson 2: Take tools, beat self over head with them.

Lesson 3. Repeat until you refuse to do #2.

Lesson 4. You're finally ready to learn.

[–]HerukaArisen5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think she is sexually attracted to me. I don't think she ever wants to divorce me.

Stop wasting your time and our time with this bullshit. You have absolutely no idea how the female mind works. Read The Rational Male 1-3. When you're finished, start all over again.

Relatively speaking, there is only a handful of men your wife wants to fuck. You are not in that handful. Your wife absolutely does not want to fuck you. Neither does she think you are very capable of fucking other women. Why else would you be living 5 hours away from her, surrounded by, one would only hope, hot nurses willing to jump on your dick?

Your biggest problem is you thinking your intelligence and logic will give you a quick solution here, when your cluelessness about your situation is painfully obvious to all the rest of us here. The good thing is that, despite of what you think, there is no hurry. Your married life is such a mess and your head is so deep in your own ass, you have some major unfucking in front of you. Stop. Read the fucking books. Think. Come back here and read what others post and see how you are like them. Stop thinking you are somehow special. If you really have to, ask a question in a post no longer than three paragraphs. Listen to what you are being told and STFU.

Meanwhile, contact a very good divorce lawyer. Financially, you are being fucked in the ass with a 12-inch strap-on but somehow you still manage to think it is just foreplay for a wonderfully satisfying marriage.

[–]Chump_No_More1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I want to salvage this, or fail trying.

And this is why you fail. You CAN NOT salvage your marriage because that requires two engaged, whole people. You don't even have one whole person, how the fuck do think you're gonna do this?

What is within your power is to salvage yourself! How about you focus on that?

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

I fucking hate giving advice to educated people.

Their delusions are manifold.

You currently have an overpriced nanny and prostitute, whose customer service is in question.

Your past decisions sucked. You need to allow her to fail and face the personal consequences of being a kept mommy. Her card has a spending limit. Let her max it out and find a way to pay the bill.

The penalty for insolence is discomfort, finding a new ATM, or heaven forbid, getting a fucking job.

You are Captain save-a-horse-hoe, and a taken-for-granted ATM.

Figure out what you want, or your kids will learn to manipulate you just as your wife has.

[–]Rogue684861 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. Let her max it out. Stop rescuing. Its enabling and unbecoming.

Are you posting your lifts? Are you reading the books?

No more mr nice guy. And the dread levels. Where is the dread?

The beauty of this forum is your job doesn't matter here. Game respects game and you do not have much.

You're frankly delusion to how bad this situation is. You are taking ownership for yourself to a fault. And not realizing her behaviors are not acceptable.

If this was a surgical case how would you handle it?

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret10 points11 points  (12 children) | Copy

Way too much faggotry to read. She has zero respect for you. Zero.

You are in a very weak position. I would start looking at attorneys after the ccard incident (which is as far as I got)

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] -1 points0 points  (11 children) | Copy

She has no reason to respect me. I've pissed and moaned and capitulated in everything she ever pushed for....

THSI IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE STOOD FAST AND HARD ON ANYTHING... It's on me

I am calling an attorney tomorrow to ascertain if I'm in a weakened custody position by being a state away...I need to understand this further before doing anything drastic.

I'm trying to find the deed to the horse so I can sell it if I choose to.

I'm reaching out to an attorney to take control of the 2nd house.

FMOFY.....more like FMOFYH (fuck me or fuck your horse)

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

The level of disrespect, deception, and lying is astounding TBH. Honestly, yeah it was brought about by you being a faggot, but it also says a lot about her character.. You vetted terribly

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

It's the first time she's outright deceived me (that I know of) in 9 years.

I'm sure she's going to justify it based on me recently lying/misleading her about going to the red pill conference I went to. I owned it and told her it was a mistake. But, I bet she's rationalizing a tit for tat here.

We'll find out tomorrow.

[–]JedemDaSeine6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's the first time she's outright deceived me (that I know of) in 9 years.

I mostly just lurk at this point and haven't posted on MRP in a long time, but lol to this.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Come on. You’re smarter than that. Her level of deception in a horrible financial lie is nowhere near you lying about a RP conference. Don’t even entertain that line of conversation. Don’t DEER. Lay down the law and get an attorney.

[–]Rogue684860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is pathetic too. You can go to whatever conference you want. You're backward rationalizing her poor behavior.

Why the hell is she on a pedestal?

[–]framelessglasses0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's the first time she's outright deceived me (that I know of) in 9 years.

That you know of.... Besides you just haven't been paying attention until lately. Then only because things have spun so far out of control.

Credit yourself for finally noticing. Now get to work.>>>>>>( on the side bar)

Suggest you read NMMNG twice. I've read it more times than that.

[–]NoCoast821 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

You may just be the most fucked up case here

All signs point to she is a stay at home mom, so yes you are fucked. Maybe you get 50/50 custody but you are still going to be paying here to fuck the new younger, more attractive man... all while your kids are separated from that hot sex by 4.5" of drywall and wood studs (interior walls are rarely insulated)

Trying to find the deed to the horse you paid for

You need an attorney for the house you are funding

You are not a betabux, you are just a full shitshow.

And you are jumping to FMOFY? That is relegated to men who are fuckable

If you dont fix yourself, your just going to dump your wife, and find another girl who just wants your money (which it seems you have no idea how to manage)

So my g ou y, you sound like you make lots of money, how is that working for you and what do you have to show for it? Cant even buy the reasonably priced car you want

You are still on dread level 0

You make a lot of money, have nothing to show for it and the rest of your life sucks. Way to go man.

Work the levels of dread, and stfu until you get to the double digits on that. I dont think you are capable of achieving that

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

You may just be the most fucked up case here

Not even close.

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah - I'm still waiting for Babysitter screenplay

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Next time, on Dragon Ball MRP..."

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

ascertain if I'm in a weakened custody position by being a state away

Good gravy bro. Let me save you the trouble. Yes you are in a seriously weakened custody position by not living with your children!

[–]helaughsinhidden6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

A horse woman?! Does the horse know she is cheating on it with you occasionally? Sorry bro, those chicks are crazy and you are the side piece.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why the fuck is this not the top reply?

[–]amrit21chandi5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You know what your problem is? You're still arguing with all of the People who are giving you genuine advices. You're trying to justify your actions as well as hers.

She doesn't deserve you. You don't need to put up with her or be better. Its never gonna work. No chance unless you're the first one to break the news to her that you want out of this relationship.

This is the only way. Bro. You need to get a lawyer and bring the paper to her bed. And then when she starts shitting on you. Do not fucking ARGUE. Like you were just doing now. Just STFU and say she knows what's going on and you're not happy with her.

If she really really care for this relationship you'll see a change. Do not falter. Do not argue. Do not be afraid.

You're acting like a kid. You act like a kid, you get treated like one. Listen to advice of people here and try to apply it on yourself. You tried to use your brain and you fucked. Now borrow something from here. You've nothing to lose. You're already lost. So only thing you can do is get a fresh start.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy

Calm down, Rambo. Panicking is beta; ignore the panicky advice from other recovering betas here and take a measured, dispassionate response, like you would with a child testing boundaries or throwing a tantrum.

Since you are no longer on the account, you don't pay the $1000/month into it; that's her immediate consequence. She'll have trouble getting the credit limit raised if she's not paying it off. Check with your attorney as to whether debt in her name alone will be all hers in the event of a divorce, and whether and how you can protect yourself going forward.

The longer-term consequences are that moving to the city with a massive pay cut is simply untenable with a financially irresponsible wife. This is the reality, your narrative, and your boundary. You must therefore shut down or permafreeze all actions or investments toward that, including your new house. Your boundary will be two years of continuously responsible financial behavior, living within what would be your reduced means, before reconsidering from the beginning the move to the city. When the current condo lease runs out, you will not renew it and will expect her to return to your town with your kids. And you will no longer finance their separate living after that time. You need not discuss these longer term consequences for a month or two, giving you time to prepare your financial vision and narrative, and to discuss with an attorney how to limit your liabilities in the event of a divorce.

Like the slow, step by step progression through the Levels of Dread recommended here for recovering from a lifetime of betadom, you should adopt a measured, step by step approach to correcting your financial faggotry. There's no need to panic, since these expenses are peanuts in comparison with the ridiculous outlay you're making for horse, two households, etc. You can afford to let her stew in her own consequences for a couple of months, and perhaps exhaust the patience and support of her parents as well, while you continue to improve.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

Dude, he doesn't need to calm down, and he is anything but rambo.

And he doesn't need to worry about panicking, either. He needs to butch up, grab his balls, find some self-respect, and make some tough decisions, decisions about much more than a fucking $12k max credit card.

Besides, he's already got five variable options for addressing a simple issue like the credit card (variables A,B,C,D,E, what a homo). Obviously the dude overthinks to the point of absurdity, especially considering the outcome is always preordained: wife gets her way, husband sulks in silence, masculinity diminishes, horse cock throbs.

I'm not advocating panic but I have read his OYS.

You tell this dude that divorce equates to panicking and you enable him even further.

What's more, this dude is incapable of taking a measured, dispassionate response that doesn't have that preordained outcome I mentioned: he kowtows to his whore wife, he lets another boundary be broken, he lives under a different roof, he moves to a town she wants, he takes a pay-cut to please her, he buys her a horse not his tesla, christ... the list goes on.

And it's made even more clear by his every "I have the right answer" response to anyone who suggests he may have the wrong answer, while further validated by his "you're right that's a great idea" response to the few who suggest something simple, something easy, something as painless-as-possible, and something that can further perpetuate this fraud of a marriage, fraud of a relationship, and definitively-bad-for-this-dude's-sense-of-self-worth dynamic.

There's so, so much more at play here than "financial faggotry."

With that said, keep up the good work, and good words, man. While I would have filed ages ago, your advice here is good:

The longer-term consequences are that moving to the city with a massive pay cut is simply untenable with a financially irresponsible wife. This is the reality, your narrative, and your boundary. You must therefore shut down or permafreeze all actions or investments toward that, including your new house. Your boundary will be two years of continuously responsible financial behavior, living within what would be your reduced means, before reconsidering from the beginning the move to the city. When the current condo lease runs out, you will not renew it and will expect her to return to your town with your kids. And you will no longer finance their separate living after that time. You need not discuss these longer term consequences for a month or two, giving you time to prepare your financial vision and narrative, and to discuss with an attorney how to limit your liabilities in the event of a divorce.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Your advice feels right emotionally, but is rationally inconsistent with the standard MRP 12-step OYS/Dread program.

he kowtows to his whore wife, he lets another boundary be broken, he lives under a different roof, he moves to a town she wants, he takes a pay-cut to please her, he buys her a horse not his tesla, christ... the list goes on.

OP started here exactly 2 months ago today, as a career beta atypical only in having more resources enabling a higher level of faggotry before reaching his limit. He starts from a deeper hole than most of us could have enabled, but neither he, nor his wife, nor his situation are very special.

There is no reason at this early stage to believe that his wife is more difficult than ordinary; he's simply starting from a lower base, and should thus expect this to take longer, with more severe shit-tests and challenges to his boundaries in these early phases. On the contrary, your advice in effect implies that because he started from a deeper beta hole, he should escalate more quickly, and that his wife is a unicorn superbitch whom he will inevitably have to ditch. My reading is that she's actually quite ordinary, and appears worse only because he has given her more rope before starting here.

Rereading /u/resolutions316's early apocalyptic, panicked posts about his supposedly nightmare wife (who turned out to be quite ordinary when he quit being such a huge faggot) and the many "OMG! Divorce her NOW!" comments, and then following his story forward should be a useful corrective to this typically beta apocalyptic thinking.

What's more, this dude is incapable of taking a measured, dispassionate response

The standard beta approach to conflict is to

  • avoid it by DEERing, lying, hiding, surrendering, and sacrificing boundaries,

  • respond with passive-aggressiveness and resentment,

  • which builds up until he reaches a breaking point, giving him the momentary courage to explode with an emotionally uncontrolled, excessive retaliatory response intended as a "Back off!" warning rather than a permanent change,

  • and then subside back into beta behavior to repeat the cycle.

OP's first order of business is to break the beta behavior cycle, and learn to take a more alpha "measured, dispassionate response." OP has been here exactly 2 months; he should be at dread level 2. He has already set a boundary capping his contribution to his wife's discretionary expenditure at $1000/month; he should focus on enforcing this boundary, and maintaining frame, narrative, and handling the resulting shit and comfort tests. He should talk with his lawyers to prudently minimize future risk and avoid digging a deeper hole. But he also should avoid the usual panicky beta response to her utterly predictable test of his current boundary by throwing out new boundaries and consequences that he must then also enforce with his minimal frame, or making a panicked escalation toward divorce in response to her entirely predictable and easily managed test.

Obviously the dude overthinks to the point of absurdity

And it's made even more clear by his every "I have the right answer" response to anyone who suggests he may have the wrong answer, while further validated by his "you're right that's a great idea" response to the few who suggest something simple, something easy, something as painless-as-possible

He's a career beta only two months into the process; of course he's still obsessively up in his wife's head and overthinking, protecting his ego, and looking for easy dancing monkey solutions. You are very right to call him out harshly on it, but a quick review of past two-month OYS's will reveal this to be par for the course. OP is not special; his wife is not special; his situation is not special.

Have more faith in the MRP process! It has worked before for equally faggoty faggots.

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

/u/resolutions316 was a lot better about not bullshitting reasons. Just saying.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

On reflection, I do believe you're right. Might be all of those life coaches and consultants...

Memory is a funny thing; "I've called in the mobile mental health crisis unit" in response to garden-variety drama is still burned into my brain two years on.

Each of us are faggots in our own special way. Edit: But I always thought r316 would make it, and somehow I think OP will, too.

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I trust you, MITW. :-)

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

Why does your family not live with you ?

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

My wife moved here for me and to gain a family she desperately wanted bc hers is shitty.

Conflicts between my mom and sisters resulted in a falling out, and now she has no reason to be in this shitty little town other than me and my job and her friends. She always wanted to move back to the city at some point and we talked about that timeline in the beginning.

Once I bought the horse, it became a bigger priority. She drove 4 hours a day 3x a week to ride and do lessons because there is no facility here.

Also our kids are starting school and she thinks the schools here suck. (Were talking kindergarten, though!)

All this led to her laying down an ultimatum that she was going to move with or without me back to the city. I had 8 months notice and started looking for jobs.

I did the search and the real sticking point was that they were mostly shit jobs that I know I would be very unhappy with (eat up new guys with low pay and high call, then turn them over). I'm currently my own business owner and really thrive with that..... I DON'T want to be an employee for some hospital. But the city markets are basically monopolized by the hospitals to the degree that only a very few small groups survive indepently. It's not likely to make it going alone.

Some groups are shitty. The good ones don't want the competition unless somebody dies or retires...so that's what I'm on hold for with a few groups.

So my job options are to wait 1-2year for a good opening (at 50% of current income), move now for a shitty job and make 10-20% of my current income. Or start looking in other areas beyond where the house is (which she really doesn't want to do.) The truth is she doesn't really care at all about what I need....as long as I keep paying for shit.

So in the meantime I keep working here, maximize savings/investments, and grow my passive income so I can take a shitty job and not sweat it as much. She has fought me tooth and nail the whole way on this point.

[–]arm_candy14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

You’re planning to move to a place you don’t want to live and take a 50-90% pay cut so that your wife can ride a horse more conveniently.

Fuck the credit card. You’ve got way bigger problems you delusional fuck.

You’re here stressing about her unwillingness to accommodate your budget while you’re uprooting your life and decimating your income so she can ride a horse. How many years of her horse shows could you fund with the income you’re going to lose by following her to the city? How many times over could you pay for the loss of that 60k house deposit by staying at your current job, the one you seem to want desperately to keep? She knows your budget is bullshit because you’re already throwing away most of your earning potential to chase her to the city. You can’t enforce the budget because you can’t enforce anything.

For what it’s worth, I’d also bet good money that she stops riding the horse within six months of your move to the city.

[–]11111v111114 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Op, read this first sentence over and over. My head hurts thinking about it.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] -3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I WANT to move to the city. I just want to secure a reasonable job before doing so, and I don't have one yet. And I don't want to be coerced into settling for a bad decision I have to wake up to every day for the next decade...

I want to be near culture and people again, and I want the kids to grow up in that as well.

Her desires align with mine in that regard. Our expectations on the timeline don't...she wants it now.

[–]arm_candy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You want to move to the city? But somehow it took an ultimatum from your wife before you would even look for a job in the city?

You suck at lying.

[–]Goobergus_Gubbins0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you end up needing to get divorced, being at 50 percent of your current income would be very helpful in setting spousal support.

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

(It’s irrational.)

Uh... it's perfectly rational. She gives more of a shit about the horse.

and literally everything stems from there.

[–]NoCoast823 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy

Between her $1000/week spending limit, and the cost of the horse she was earning 6 figures and only had to see you 2 days a week... your going to have a hell of a time talking her out of that deal. Or in other words your going to have to increase your value to the point that your presence in her life is more valuable then living the lifestyle of a horse girl.

On that note, do any of the books we all read mention that no man should ever marry a horse girl? You have a better chance of turning a hoe into housewife, then you do turning horse girl into a financially responsible adult.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I turned a hoe into a house wife but not fucking with horse girls. Lolled at that pretty hard, well played.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy

she was earning 6 figures and only had to see you 2 days a week...

It wasn't always like this. She was a pretty good wife in the beginning...

If I take these monetary things away, I will have a LOT of value again....or I will be a manipulative, abuser (in her mind).

Believing she could be responsible with the horse was a mistake.

[–]NoCoast821 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If I take these monetary things away, I will have a LOT of value again

So the only value you have is your fat pay check?

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

More like she doesn't need anything else if she has unfettered access to it... slippery slope.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

My wife said the same thing about me when I grew a pair and told my princess I wouldn't buy her a kitchen for 40k that I couldn't afford.

I only do what I want now. She can share her desires but if it doesn't match my mission and make me happy, we aren't fucking doing it. She said she would follow me to the ends of the earth and move wherever I go and do what I do. She said she would divorce me over the kitchen, it was all a bluff to see if I was a bitch. She can leave anytime she wants but she won't.

Sounds like you might have a much different situation based on what I am reading. You sound fucked bro. What is your plan to fix this shit show? Nuclear bomb or beta buxx?

[–]FoxShitNasty833 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lol I had this yesterday... Can we borrow 10k so I can get a new car. She is sick and 5 months from losing job... Me: haha no, we can drop to 1 car or get a banger.

Wife: you always bring up my sickness and I hate it.

Me: your right, I have to be the sensible one. if you can't work we can't pay it off.

Her: crying, your using my sickness as a weakness.

Me: (comforts her) "singing" "come on get up and get down with the sickness"

She's been great since.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Did you make the "ooh ahahaha" noise too?

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No but I'm hoping to make it to the chorus next time.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

No nuclear bombs.

No more beta buxx...Turn off the spigot.

Emphasize my desire to have the family whole again and have her as a leading part in my life (which I think is what she genuinely wants - see comments above)

But at the end of the day, it's still the MRP plan. Fix ME and improve my shortcomings. She will follow my lead...or not.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You should tell her to get a clit hood piercing.

Riding around on a horse with a pierced pussy in tight tights with knee high leather boots.

Fuuuuccccckkkkk.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy

What would you do if a nurse broke so many of your rules at work? Yeah, do that.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

If the rules were never posted or discussed?

And the nurse just kept demanding a pay raise and we kept giving it to her?

More like shitty management. And you don't fire her without fixing your own shit and making clear the expectations.

If she can't live with the new rule set/arrangement, you fire her.

So here I am, trying to enforce boundaries and expectations.

[–]arm_candy11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Stop excusing her behavior. Scratch that, stop delaying enforcement of your boundaries.

You absolutely made the budget clear. You told her repeatedly what the budget was. She repeatedly ignored your budget, going so far as to remove you from her credit card.

The rules were clear. She’s repeatedly violated them. Now what happens to the nurse?

Near as I can tell you have exactly one way left to enforce your boundaries. Or you can keep pretending that you’re somehow on track to salvage this.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, you got it.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

I didn't say fire her did I? I said to do what you would do if you were dealing with a nurse who broke your rules. If you didn't communicate the rules, well, it's on you. But you have, and she did fuckall to show respect for that. Now what?

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

The obvious thing is to remove the money ASAP. I've been counselled NOT to do that by my attorney, or face serious reprisal from any divorce judge in the future.

My time and attention seem to have no value to her except sporadically.

I seem to have 3 options going forward:

1) Controlled rage. She will understand I'm serious, but toothless.

2) Increase my value to her.... This is the right answer in my heart. Put in the 12 months work needed. Then make a decision on whether it's livable or not. Establish a lower paying job so I don't get creamed in a divorce. Meanwhile, continuing to be stepped over and ignored for a lot longer.

3) Call the cards. Say I can't live with the current terms after this recent behavior. The new terms need to be realigned with my expectations, or you are living like a divorced woman and will be one. We live in one house, and the city is off the table for a year unless you get your shit together financially.

The only one with teeth is 3.

[–]arm_candy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Did your lawyer actually say that getting a lower paying job will help you? Are you in a state that grants long term alimony? Is it better to lose 40% of whatever you currently make vs 40% of the pay cut you'd take if you move to the city?

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No he did not. That is clearly something I magically thought, and will need to get clarification on.

[–]RPeed1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Increase my value to her.... This is the right answer in my heart.

You literally could not increase your value to her. You need to start weighing hers.

More like shitty management. And you don't fire her without fixing your own shit and making clear the expectations.

People will twist metaphors the way they want. Is there a poster in your place of work saying "Kind reminder: please don't steal and resell meds ladies!" or would that be absurd?

She knows what she did. You know she knows what she did. You are terrified of her.

[–]ArborioRice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Increase my value to her.... This is the right answer in my heart.

Obligatory "ur in her frame faggot!" Bla bla bla Mental Point of Origin bla bla bla.

In this entire thread you keep missing the underlying point of self respect and self validation being of primary importance above EVERYTHING ELSE, and the "-for her" is instructive you're solely focused on getting precious horse princess to give you some sliver attention and approval so you can feel worthwhile. You have a near zero sense of self, along with what sounds like a martyr complex...everything you do is reactive to your wife's whims.

You need to answer a simple question for yourself, and it's arguably the most difficult question to answer: What do you want?

And not just with what do you want to happen with your wife, her horse, the city, credit cards...no. What do you want out of life, for yourself?

And to the whole "This is the right answer in my heart" garbage: You're clinging to a deep rooted memory of what your wife was at some distant point in time rather than who she is and how she behaves towards you RIGHT NOW. I guarantee you will not progress at all in this journey clinging to some pedestalized construct of this woman you've concocted in your head to make you feel better about the decisions you've made (or not made) that led her to treating you like utter garbage.

Maybe you save the marriage maybe you don't, but stop fucking deluding yourself you're here to salvage some higher romantic purpose. You willingly let another human being use and manipulate you in ways strangers, acquaintances, or even friends ever could; start getting angry with yourself for allowing that to happen and start making the decisions that allow you to sleep at night knowing you're more than just some spineless chump.

[–]scarmine340 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

re: 2. getting a lower paying job won't help in the divorce - her lawyer will point out your earning potential and they'll base the alimony and child support on a combination of that and the standard of living you've given her in the past.

Regarding that - you're fucked, bro. If you specialize, check out what you'd get paid in Canada or Australia or something, somewhere that the US system can't put liens on your shit.

[–]ManguZa2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

She didn't follow your budget and even pull a fast one on you. You need to first call her on that until she own her responsabilities and apologize. Stay calm in front of the predicting yell and tears.

Move out with your family close to your job. Why the "where she want to live" matter when she don't give a shit about you? Definitely sell the house. It's a no brainer.

Inform her that if she don't cancel right now her fucking credit card where she accumulate a debt you sell the horse to refund it. And enforce that fucking consequence.

It's the turning point bro. Stop worrying about her choices and make your owns.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

First off, learn how to write more succinctly. Jesus your post and replies to comments are like a fucking book.

You don’t have a marriage. There is no marriage here, maybe you never had one, who knows... but you’re providing for HER to do what SHE wants. There is so much she and her in this it’s sickening.

You can’t set a boundary right now - you’re unattractive and she gives zero fucks about you. Don’t threaten divorce - she won’t think it’s credible. Here’s what you do right now - nothing but STFU, lift, sidebar. Protect yourself financially for sure - give her the fixed amount each week like you did, if she racks up the CC that’s HER issue to deal with. Once you become attractive (minimum 6-12 months and probably longer), you’ll have options. Right now you have zero. You think you can control her, hahaha. That’s laughable. She has your balls in her purse as she rides her horse laughing to herself since she can ride Chad the stableboy once she’s done riding the horse.

Fuck you’re sad.

Were you /u/bobbyperu surgeon who kept saying happy wife happy life?

Edit: typing on a phone sucks.

Edit 2: a divorce is your best option but I know you’re too much of a faggot to go through with it. The advice above is what you may actually be able to pull off. In six months then you may have enough balls to divorce her.

[–]arm_candy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You don’t have a marriage. There is no marriage here

This is the reality. Right now, /u/ComteDeBetamax, you're a weekend dad supporting an ex-wife. You're already living the divorce-rape life. You're supporting your ex 100% and paying thousands a month to keep her in a plush lifestyle while you're not even around. You're supporting her bullshit hobby to the tune of tens of thousands per year. You're paying for her new house. You only see your kids on the weekends after driving 5 hours.

You're divorced but think you're still married. Your ex-wife seems to understand that you're no longer together and has built an entire life without you in it (but with your unceasing monetary support).

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

UPDATE 2: Thank you, sincerely, to all who have taken time to weigh in. Mods banned me, work called, but I’m not going anywhere... There is A LOT of valuable input here from a lot of voices that I have processed and appreciate.

-----------------------------------------------------

<rant>

I originally made this post after coming up with a MISSION and a PLAN that I’m 2 months into: As prescribed, I work through 12 months of MRP, improving me, escalating dread and THEN see if I have a marriage or not. This post was about me starting to shore up my financial boundaries (that I let get out of control) and I made the post asking for specific advice on how to do that effectively against factors out of my control (credit card not in my name).

A lot of you are getting into a tizzy because I’m not going to abandon MY PLAN based on your EXTERNAL SOCIAL INPUT. Well, that behaviors not internally consistent with your missions fellas. Thank you for the input. I do me, fuck you and your group conformity. We’ve all got different risk tolerances and goals in the end.

This does not side step the OBVIOUS, which is that I’m in a deep fucking hole that MAY NOT have an exit, and I’m focusing on the smallest of many GIGANTIC issues at hand. Focusing on the bigger picture is necessary. I get it. But I’m starting. All your points may be valid and it may not be savable….I get it. But I’m going to put in the time to work on ME first.

This community has some great tools here THAT WORK for many cases...but you SURE AS HELL don’t have a big enough sample size to extrapolate out which cases you can save and which ones you can’t or know it’s limits yet. So skip the hubris, check your own ego, and gather another data point with me. I don’t know if it works either, but I’m willing to put in the effort and time.

But for god’s sake, either believe what you preach (MRP, 12 months, etc.) or fucking change your flair to “Hypocrite”….

----------------------------------------------------------------

“Hey broh, it’s dead on arrival. Just get your dick wet and wash away the oneitis”

Fuck that. That doesn’t fix anything. That doesn’t set ME up for success in the future. I was a spineless, passive-aggressive CUNT to my wife for many years. I need to own THAT SHIT, and live the life I want to live NOW, or set me up for a better on in the future. It doesn’t happen overnight. AND MY WIFE IS A REFLECTION OF ME. She used to like me, and now she doesn’t BECAUSE OF ME. So for fuck’s sake, I don’t expect any of this shit to change overnight.

And yeah, I’m going to analyze the fuck out of this. Because men use logic and their brains instead of just pushing the PANIC BUTTON and EJECTING out of a flying vehicle because it looks too scary and their emotions overwhelm them like a bitch. So everybody calm down.

-------------------------------

To all the claims I’m waffling and in my wife’s frame. We moved from a very specific question (credit card) to fixing ALL MY SHIT AT ONCE in 1 post. If we are going to deal with the bigger picture, then details and context matter. I felt like many gave a cursory look to my top OYS post and didn’t get the whole picture, so I was trying to provide context for the past (not make excuses for the present). Take a history and get the relevant data before you pronounce the patient dead.

It matters that:

- *I\* passively-aggressively avoided a wife who once loved and respected me

- *I* want to move back to civilization from a cow town with literally nothing in it. My kids, my wife, and I don’t belong here.

- *I* dragged my ass for 4 years on moving, giving lip service and no action to my wife because *I* was fearful of the unknown, wanted to avoid conflict in new markets/partners, and was lazy about starting my business over. I’d be desperate too by then.

- The total lack of financial control didn’t start to escalate until *I* hit rock bottom several months ago….*I *agreed to everything else up to this point and signed for it.

- *I\* had no tools for dealing with an emotionally manipulative spoiled childbride (AWALT) and gave away the farm

If *I\* am the main variable that needs to be fixed, and AWALT, what the hell do I gain by nexting my wife at this stage that I won’t still be dealing with in the next relationship anyway… Not to mention my 4 and 5 year old children that I want to have an intact family (if possible). Sunk cost fallacy? Hell yes.

Johhneyapocalype You provide fire, brimstone, and motivation for me to continue to fight the 12 month fight for me no matter what it may take. That may not be the outcome YOUR EGO is invested in, but it’s sure as hell a great fucking motivation for a guy in my position. Thank you. I truly appreciate you sharing your story and fight, and don’t expect any respect from you coming from that position when you see how I’m pissing away the gifts and opportunities in my life and taking them for granted. We can go to blows at a later date if that’s what it takes….but for now, thanks for caring.

</rant>

-------------------------------------------

Having shit all that out, REAL external constraints DO require me to change MY PLAN now:

- “Laying down the law” will be perceived as controlling/abusing by a female judge if I end up filing in 2 months, so I must moderate and think about how I approach this….it must appear cooperative and uncontrolling, even though total financial control is all I will be happy with.

- She establishes residency in another state with the kids in 2 months. I need to know if I’m moving forward or backward by then, because my risk goes up later if divorce happens.

Other than that, the plan is the same: We don’t move into the new home until 1 year financial responsibility on a budget by her. And everyone lives in MY house until we move together in 1 year. I will sign a letter of intent to leave my practice with her during this discussion to give her an incentive I’m true to my word.

If she doesn’t want to work together at all and she refuses everything, there’s very little hope for an improved future and I’m already divorced.

[–]rotkohlblaukraut2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's shame this post was removed. There's a lot of good info and feedback and exemplars here. Good on you for owning your part in this and feeling that fire lit under your ass. Best to you going forward.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the good wishes. It really helped me consolidate my thoughts and see my weakness by running through this dumpster fire.

I'm in a better place for having done it.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Still a faggot with zero respect given by his wife.

You're deeper into beta bux zone than I think we have ever seen here.

Good luck, but if my wife pulled this shit she would definitely be seeing my controlled anger

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're deeper into beta bux zone than I think we have ever seen here.

I think this summarized my situation well.

Good luck, but if my wife pulled this shit she would definitely be seeing my controlled anger

I feel like I need to demonstrate control, but maybe O-renshi style is more appropriate....

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The only boundary that matters is the one you're willing and able to enforce

[–]TaipanshimshonRed Beret1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Also.

Whose cock is she riding. We know it's not yours

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

Not mine. And not anyone else's... I've never really had to worry about that.

It's weird. She wouldn't give you or anybody else the time of day.

The only time I've seen her gravitate toward men, is toward beta simps who flood her with attention....but I don't think she has sexual feelings for them, just emotional. (I guess that includes me too....)

[–]jml1911a10 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Women will happily give up their vaginas in the pursuit of emotional fulfillment.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

It's good to reflect on this a bit more.

Prior to our current shitshow, my wife used to complain about not having sex frequently enough. She wanted more. The real issue was that as a spineless simp, and I would shut down sexually when she was nagging and cunty (which she was a lot because I didn't know how to handle it). Essentially, I had low libido around her because of this.

It wasn't until very recently that things got much worse and I started seeing denials outright.

She's never been totally open and relaxed sexually with me, partly because she's anxious, but mainly I'm pretty sure it's because she knew I was butthurt or angry during those good ole' days...and that kept her guarded and retracted.

She probably just finally gave up more than anything. So I still think fundamentally that she is attracted to me and that attraction can be built upon if I don't act like a faggot anymore.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

And in retrospect, I used to avoid her a lot (passive-aggressive) when I didn't know how to handle dealing with her.

I can envision an honest scenario here where she wanted more, but I wasn't really around/didn't want to be around her, and worked a lot/engaged in other things. Sort of a lonely housewife....who doesn't cheat.

So, rather than divorce (which she does not do), maybe she extricated herself to resolve some of that conflict...and cheated with a horse.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cheated with a horse

I will take $100 for she rubbed and wiggled a few out on that saddle.

If you are gone a lot, you have absolutely no idea what your woman is doing while you are gone. Unless you do a pelvic every night on your woman, you don't know yet you are so, so certain. Do you recognize that this is just a manifestation of your pedestalizing this woman?

[–]rotkohlblaukraut1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I remember writing to you about boundaries before, good to see you thinking about them but, as has been pointed out very well, this is analagous to asking how many mg of penicillin you'll need to treat an infection while not realizing the root problem is that the patient has a 12 inch railroad spike sticking out of his head.

One of the things about taking the red pill is understanding that the relative value of the man to the woman is much greater than, and the value of the wife to the man is much less than - Western society has brainwashed you into believing. The reason that withdrawing time, attention, and resources is the common prescription is that at some primitve level, the real potential value of the man is understood and valued. In your case, though, it appears that your wife (1) really and truly doesn't give a fuck about you (2) is being bankrolled by her family, and (3) knows that if this ends in divorce she comes out with, like, loads of money. While (3) applies to most men, as far as I can tell, (1) and (2) take away most of your leverage. So there's that. You've pretty much withdrawn your time and attention by virtue of not even living in the same state as her, and all that happens is that she's more demanding an acting finacially entitled. Good luck turning that around.

You've been told several times that you;re cherrypicking answers you like that are passive and just lead deeper into this mess. Look at the guy who wrote about creating a pasive income stream so your *next* wife can have a horse. You completely ignored the subtext ("get a divorvce, dummy") and jumped on with the income stream idea. I.e one that allows you buy more gasoline to pour on your current dumpster fire.

Also, the advice to talk to a lawyer is not about you divorcing her. It's about you actually having facts to use to make a decision, and to acclimatize yourself to the idea of living with a salary of this and expenses of that, and realizing that it's do-able. It's not as scary as it sounds.

You also write something about "the only thing keeping my wife with me in this town is..." you know, that's usually called a marriage, when the wife wants to be with her husband. Dunno what exactly you want to call this thing.

Listen to man in the world and johnny, think deeply on their words and perspectives.

[–]chadinthemaking1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If I was a surgeon I’d hit the gym, tap some nurses and file. You’ll pay now but have that Tesla soon and be much happier.

She’s already moved out and is almost 100% banging Chad the horse trainer.

All this other stuff is mental masturbation. Sorry dude. Been there, done that. You can try to rationalize almost anything. And you are.

Drop papers. Maybe one last chance if she gives you 100% of what you want. But I think it’s better to start over. And before you do, do the suggested readings. They’ll save your life.

One of my favorite lines: Don’t root around in the trash after you’ve taken it to the curb.

You will be so much happier single. If you do the work.

Good luck.

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Surgeons make a lot of money... Most surgeons have very little money.... Because they are married to surgeon's wives, who have to maintain a surgeon's wife's lifestyle.

Wasting money on shit like horse shows, lessons, taking the horse farm owner to expensive dinners and staying in nice hotels with him while at said horse shows.

You will get divorce raped in a major way, but it is the best logical step if you ever hope to have any self-respect and accumulate wealth for yourself. At this point, you're just paying for the world's most expensive hooker - and she probably doesn't even fuck like you'd expect the world's most expensive hooker to fuck.

Leave her, salvage what little self respect you have and go fuck a few nurses to knock your wife off that pedestal you have her on.

You won't do anything though... She'll keep spending your money on horses, houses, expensive clothes and whatever the hell else she wants because she knows you're afraid to do anything about it.

[–]askmeanything20 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I’ll answer your questions while leaving it to the others to flame you.

1)Where am I being dense and where am I going to get blind sided?

You think you are in control. Just like you got blind sided by her credit card you will get blind sided again.

You are considering options without understanding the ramifications. For example walking away from the new home could see you sued for more than the deposit.

2) Where can I be more effective?

Quit trying to do financial rambo. Retain a top divorce lawyer and obtain legal advice on the next steps.

3) How much to I signal/disclose the consequences to her vs. just keep my mouth shut and just let them happen? (For all I know, she is reading this…) To avoid the passive-aggressive approach, I think me just calmly informing her that she did something unacceptable in this relationship and explaining the response is in order.

Do not implement anything at this time. STFU, STFU, STFU

4) I’m also struggling with how to handle the next 2 weeks. We are doing family vacation together and spending a lot of time together with the kids. I feel like I have the option of just treating her like a teenager who is being grounded, but still part of the family (and not paying for a damn thing.) But I’m not sure if that is the best way forward. If I tell her not to come until she gets her shit sorted, she keeps the kids and I go on vacation alone….

Just go as planned, enjoy the holiday, STFU, STFU, STFU

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for the constructive feedback.

I am speaking to the attorney tomorrow. I understand the need to STFU if I'm pursuing divorce.

But I'm not pursuing divorce yet. And I have to talk about the boundaries to enforce them, so after thinking about it, I'm going to only talk about the financial boundary right now until we fix it. If she complies, then we move on to the living situation boundary.

If not, then I don't have a marriage....and I STFU and work with the attorney.

[–]askmeanything20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are planning on using logic and reasoning with your wife. From the STFU section for newbies:

Newsflash: women’s hamsters eat logic and shit more hamsters. You need to STFU unless you want to deal with a shitton of hamsters.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Jesus dude. I couldn’t finish reading it. This is a dumpster fire because you aren’t in control of the money and are clueless as to how that might work. The way you talk about your expenses sounds like s person that is rich-broke. The divorce court judge is going to have you paying some ridiculous monthly alimony unless you get her working and close her off from your money.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She's not respecting you, she's clearly not on your team, and in fact she is actively sabotaging you. You don't have any boundaries at all, because you've enabled this poor behavior.

You think this is all about your finances. News flash - it's not.

Got any controlled anger? Any consequences for mommy? Stuff like what she is doing would make me put a pause on everything else - building a second home, horse payments, and I'd lock down what I would be able to in order to fix the finances. Nothing would get done or moved forward until the items above were fixed - and they would have to be fixed long term, as in consistent correct behavior.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can place a credit freeze for free with the three major credit reporting agencies, which should prevent your wife from opening any new accounts. It will likely also prevent her from extending her credit limit on the current account.

You had best register with these agencies before she does.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I have no control over her card....or her spending so far.

This is simple. Just tell your sweet little darling that since you are not on the card, and you did not approve the charges that you will not be making any payments on it.

Write to the company and advise them that you will not be paying for the charges on the card that is not in your name. They will cut her off quick.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Like the company will fucking care and/or the courts?

Marital debt it marital debt. He can write all the letters he wants.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sure in divorce they won't care. However, if he sends a letter saying he is not responsible then he isn't unless the judge orders otherwise. That means they can't sue him for $$ if he disavows it and she runs it up.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Stop worrying about what a man would do and just fucking be a man

Seriously just stop with all the nonsense.

you think that being a man is about always making the right decisions. It shows in how you analyzed it all right down to the smallest detail. Maybe it is to some degree yet thing about that is the right decision is never the easy one.

Furthermore it’s not that bad things don’t happen to Alpha men. It’s how Alpha men handle it when bad things happen.

[–]boom_bostic0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Wow. There’s a lot to unpack in this post. On one hand, I’m envious of you and on the other, I feel pretty bad for you.

First thing that ran through my head when I started reading this was that you allowed your family to live in a totally separate city and to me...that’s a HUGE NO-NO.

You see, now you are having to resort to (or at least attempting to) strong arming your wife. This is another no-no in my book and is a very last ditch effort. (I could explain why, in my experience, this is not a good move but it’s a long story. Just trust me, I have a wife, daughter and sisters) You and your wife should be on the same team...she really believes this and if the long distance husband drops in and starts giving ultimatums, she’ll turn on you so quick that you won’t even recognize who she is.

I’m sure you’re getting tons of advice but the biggest thing is that you MUST get your family back together under one roof. You can’t fix this remotely. It just takes work on your part. You have all the tools to sort this mess out.

And don’t strong arm your wife with ultimatums. You have to have very strong frame and game for ultimatums to work. You don’t have to get divorced, you don’t need to ever unless your woman has cheated on you.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

My first response would be to start dropping ultimatums...but I think I need to try other approaches to lead us out of this. I agree with your advice that it will be taken as inflammatory, and provoke the opposite response I need.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Stopped reading as soon as you said you want to lay a boundary. Faggots don't get to lay down boundaries because they cannot enforce them. If she found you attractive and high value she wouldn't be doing this. She doesn't respect you.

My wife doesn't spend money unless she asks permission. She asked me permission to go to the bathroom a few weeks ago. She used to run around with my credit cards buying shit when she felt like it because I was a faggot who didn't and couldn't lay boundaries. Stop being a faggot and this problem will solve itself.

[–]SuperCrazy070 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, I’ve responded to this guys OYS about his financial leadership.

My wife and I keep separate finances. She makes $250K+ and has a personal net worth in the seven figures (her not us) with no debt.

She seriously asks permission to buy her niece a $20 shirt or if it’s ok to get a $15 glass of wine that she’d prefer when she’s ok with the $11 option.

OP needs to lead. Probably the greatest area of respect my wife has for me is the investments I’ve made, the boundaries I put in place, etc so she can look at everyone else and tell them how we get tons of dividends and can pick what we want to do etc when everyone else is paycheck to paycheck.

OP, with the excess income you have coming in, you could far more quickly than most build passive cash flow that lets your next wife have a horse (to me, current wife is a goner).

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP, with the excess income you have coming in, you could far more quickly than most build passive cash flow that lets your next wife have a horse (to me, current wife is a goner).

Yes, you are correct.

That has been our fundamental financial fight. Invest VS Spend.

And I've failed to lead and let the kids have their run of the candy store...

EDIT: ....The more I think about this, the more I like it. I put a cap on it now, but she can do horse stuff in the future in proportion to passive income that pays for it (up to a limit). It aligns our goals while we grow.

It is essentially what my plan was from the beginning, until I gave away the whole game to her.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

UPDATE:

(Thank you to all who have weighed in. I'm very grateful to be challenged as I fumble my way through this by myself.)

I met with my attorney today. (They are also a family member, so there may be bias. But, also the best divorce attorney around here.)

He said that he would "crucify me" in front of the judge if he were the other party's attorney and saw that I did anything to restrict her access to the money. Because the amount I'm trying to restrict is much less than the 50% she's "entitled to" in the partnership, I would be denying her access to her fair share. So no go on that.

It sounds like access to the kids isn't a big risk right now, but alimony is the big one and my future decisions may have an enormous impact on that.

RISK 1: Jurisdiction - If a divorce proceeds here, I carry a high reputation in the community, and my (multiple) family attorney members are friends with the judges and have good relations with them (drinking, golfing, etc) which may or may not help.

If the divorce proceeds in the big city, her father is a very high level attorney who is pretty connected and would likely know which judges and courts the case could be steered to for their advantage. (probably corrupt anyway)

RISK 2: Time. If I let her fully establish residency beyond 12 months in another state, it may adversely effect the Jurisdiction. I have until August.

RISK 3: Alimony may not later be adjusted according to my income if I move after the divorce. If my current pay is used during the divorce, and I then move to be close to the kids in the city and make 60% less money, I could still have the prior unadjusted burden of payment to her. Not to mention that business could fail or not be profitable with a new venture. I could get decimated by this.

He believes she's being coached because everything she has done so far is textbook what he would have advised her. He thinks I should just move forward with divorce discussions.

I suspect her mom knows exactly what the fuck she's doing and has been setting this up, but my wife is just happy the get a condo in the city. At this point, it's irrelevant because the risk is the same.

So, here I sit. My time and attention is not needed nor valued, and she has no respect for anything I say. I could work on making myself better and the MRP stay=go plan, but the truth is it's hard to really move the needle much in a 2 month time period when you only see each other 5 days a month.

I will sit down with her and clearly lay out my vision for how the family needs to function after this latest violation of trust, including the financial boundaries and budget (as though we live in the city already), as well as living under the same roof. Along with a 1 year plan to move to the city that honors my current commitments with work. If she wants to be a part of that vision, she can opt in.

I don't think she wants a divorce. But, at this point I'm fucked if I DON'T do something.

[–]HerukaArisen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm starting to feel sorry for you man. You are a smart guy and you make big bucks, yet at the same time you are totally unable to see your own situation. It is difficult to see things that are too close.

But the reason I'm feeling sorry for you is that you are not unlike me. I, too, have felt that I'm being taken advantage financially by my wife, when the real problems have been my oneitis and my inability to take responsibility of my own actions.

Stop thinking this is a puzzle that can be solved. MRP is an attitude shift and self-transformation, and those things take time. In your case (and mine), I'm talking years.

Slow down. Stop talking and start listening. Start giving less fucks about what others think, including your wife, the people in your pathetic little community and us, too. Start thinking about all the wonderful things you will do when you are no longer married to your wife. Approach women. Lift like your life depended on it, since it really does. Read the books. Did I say stop talking? And finally, stop saving the hoe. This is all you need to do with regards to your wife's finances.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck. I bet your hamster has at least a 1500# combined total.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Also, part of what some of you are calling me out on is for holding onto some "fantasy" of what could be.

The reality is that I was petrified of my wife's emotions in the past for whatever reason. Working through MRP the last few months, now I DNGAF about them. And I have seen that it truly is no different than a crying 3 year old. She bitches and whines and huffs and puffs....and then she gets distracted by a shiny object and everything is fine.

The part of me that sees this, knows that all the past shit I've let her get away with up to this point has been because I toppled over when she got mad/angry/sad/whatever and just went along with it (and became a passive-aggressive bitch.)

So, yeah, there's that kernel of me that also knows that this is really the FIRST TIME I've put my foot down with my 3 year old wife ready to go to the mats and get bloodied over it....and we don't have enough data yet to know if she's going to fall in line or not. So far in the last 2 months, regarding smaller matters, she has been falling in line...... (finances excluded)...so it's seems retarded to just launch the nukes at this stage.

It's probably irrelevant at this point though. Either she wants a real marriage, or she wants to keep up her lifestyle. It can't be both.

[–]ComteDeBetamaxCapt Save-A-Horse-Hoe[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Last clarification. I actually want to move to the city and leave my current job ASAP. I just want to secure a job first that doesn't hose me for the next 10 years (non-competes and such) and I have a 12 month wind down in my contract.

She is coercing this onto her own timeline for several of her own reasons: For several years she talked about it, and I ignored her, until her pleading escalated. Then I started looking, and nothing happened. Finally, she gave me an ultimatum.....

And when I looked in earnest after the ultimatum, there was shit to be found. That is still where we are. And that is why we have gotten in to this part of the mess in the first place.

She got tired of waiting for me to get my shit together...

Some of my reluctance in moving was rational fears, and a lot of it initally was NOT. I wanted to take the easy way out. I wanted to avoid conflict, and having to fight tooth and nail in a competitive market....so I needed to grow up a bit as well.

And it's not lost on me that by actually moving to the city in the future and making a reduced salary, while working on me (and having access to more women (not 300 pound land whales)) my alimony payment would be much less if it all went south on a bad gamble..... That is important, I think, if I'm going to analyze me gamble for the long haul if MRP fails in the end.

[–]askmeanything20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I will sit down with her and clearly lay out my vision for how the family needs to function after this latest violation of trust, including the financial boundaries and budget (as though we live in the city already), as well as living under the same roof. Along with a 1 year plan to move to the city blah blah blah

Fail. Look at it from her point of view.

I don't think she wants a divorce.

She wants her lifestyle including her horse. If “marriage” doesn’t get it, divorce will. She is being coached on how to drain you.

But, at this point I'm fucked if I DON'T do something.

Lift, read and STFU. There is no way to talk yourself out of this. STFU.

Instead put the work in, become a man that a lot a women want. Then, and only then, will you be ready.

if MRP fails in the end

MRP can make you a man most women will not want to lose. If you don’t STFU and put the work in, it will not be MRP to blame.

[–]askmeanything20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Alimony may not later be adjusted according to my income if I move after the divorce.

Did you ask your lawyer about moving before the divorce?

See, for example:

https://www.einhornharris.com/blog/family-law/youre-earning-how-much-income-imputation-in-divorce-cases/

while someone may not actually be earning a certain amount, it makes sense to attribute a certain level of income to them because they may have earned that much in the past or may have the demonstrated ability to earn that amount.



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