Discussion: let’s get on the same page with “alpha” and “beta.”

bigmfkr · 2019-03-27T06:41:57+00:00

The original RP definition is:

Alpha - traits that generate raw sexual desire in women. Those that make a man wanted as a lover.
Beta - traits that make a man wanted for comfort and provision.

A man could have both, or neither - not necessarily only alpha or beta. They are also represented on a spectrum.

Then there's "alpha men" and "beta men" - men in whom alpha or beta traits are dominant.

What are the physical characteristics of an alpha and a beta? What are the personality characteristics of an alpha and a beta? What are the behaviors that signify an alpha and a beta?

See above.

Can an alpha fall in love and/or get married?

Yes. The whole "don't get married" discussion is not really related to AF/BB dichotomy.

Is a man who marries automatically a beta?

Not necessarily, but there certainly is a correlation.

Are there exceptions and/or an acceptable level of beta?

Exceptions to what? Acceptable to whom? That's not really a question.

The idiots in RP keep changing the definition of "alpha" to "men who lead" and "men who they respect". Not cool. RP is about sexual dynamics, not male to male interactions.

_anothergumnut_ · 2019-03-27T05:37:55+00:00

There's no such thing as an "alpha". There are alpha traits and beta traits, men are a mix.

chaddad9000 · 2019-03-27T07:02:24+00:00

After talking about this issue since like forever, there's really zero actual objective consensus in the manosphere about alpha/beta. Like they sit around and debate whether alphas eat cucumbers or whatever because they have no real idea. And nobody could answer this except maybe a few ECs with their own very specific definition. If you surveyed TRP regular posters, they digest this stuff every day and still would be no way be any consensus on "alpha".

Are my Beta/RMV characteristics good or bad? Are they reducing her attraction to my "Alpha" or adding to it? Do I need some of them or none of them? What if I just offered her cocaine instead? Was this fancy car a waste of money or the biggest pussy grabber ever? How much "Beta" is good or bad? Should I really care if she's fucking me hard anyway? I mean they just don't really know. They have no idea.

So ultimately alpha/beta is IMO largely a non-useful concept.

One one level it is just "he gets laid." But my take is it is for the most part a huge projection about their own cultural ideas of what they think is masculine and dominant and appealing to women, and less about what they actually know what works.

TRP will tell you about the Navy SEAL who's wife is fat and nags him, and he's alpha-but-not-alpha. I can tell you about the totally average soyboy male feminist with a gallery job who plays a harem of 21 yo art students, he's "beta" but not at all beta.

And like if "alpha" and "beta" were really ultimately useful concepts, why haven't women adopted them?

I mean I've heard a lot of stuff from women which indirectly confirms "red pill", but I'm just waiting to meet the first woman to buy into this concept so wholeheartedly like manosphere.

nemma88 · 2019-03-27T08:17:58+00:00

Why there is no consensus:

When you create traits to fit the model of whats attractive it ends up with too many outliers, more so than many RP models to the point it's constantly in disagreement here.

There are many points of reference questioned along the way. Are women clamoring for this person because they are attracted to him or his money? What % of Women would agree with this? Is this guy doing better only because he is exposing himself to the opportunity more? When you look at men who do well they are all over the place, and when they are doing well it might not even be about visceral attraction. There are too many factors at play and too much descriptive information we don't have into why - so people fill in the blanks with what they believe, what they want to believe or their own experience and it just muddies the water more.

Additionally studies in this area, while numerous are always self reported, always working towards a average. Anecdotal data is all over the spectrum.

The best you can probably do is collect all of that and try and find the mode in each to maximize chances of success. Not sure if that's Alpha though.

rus9384 · 2019-03-27T08:52:29+00:00

I don't think that's a useful concept too.

There are traits that:

Add to SMV.
Add to RMV.
Add to SMV and RMV.
Subtract from SMV.
Subtract from RMV.
Subtract from SMV and RMV.
Add to SMV and subtract from RMV.
Add to RMV and subtract from SMV.

And both men and women have those traits. But as you see, there are 8 possibilities, and alpha/beta/omega view is too simplistic.

-TheGreasyPole- · 2019-03-27T08:55:09+00:00

Once again I have to point out we’re not all speaking the same language.

Even within the RP guys that’s right. There are several versions of this floating around that get confused with one another, and genuine disagreements even among RPM

What’s an alpha? What’s a beta?

Someone with lots of alpha traits or beta traits respectively. One of the disagreements is over whether there are just these two “types of men” as well as these two “sets of traits”.

Although all RPM use the two sets of traits, this seems to lead logically to 4 sets of men (not two)... AFs, BBS, O’s and AB’s. Although many still prefer just 2 or 3. /u/sadomasochrist for Example Denies the existence of ABs.

What are the physical characteristics of an alpha and a beta? What are the personality characteristics of an alpha and a beta?

This is asked so often I wrote it up as PPD wiki pages so I didn’t have to keep typing it out.

Alpha Traits

Beta Traits

What are the behaviors that signify an alpha and a beta?

An AF has lots of alpha traits, but little to no beta traits.

A BB has lots of beta traits, but little to no alpha.

An O has little to none of either.

An AB has lots of alpha and beta traits.

Can an alpha fall in love and/or get married?

Yes. Both AFs and ABs can. However, any married guy is much more likely to be an AB or BB than an AF. AFs can get married but commonly don’t.

Is a man who marries automatically a beta?

Some will tell you yes. I’m going to tell you no.

Even Ghengis Khan had a wife. He just had more than one :)

Are there exceptions and/or an acceptable level of beta? .

Arguably what I’ve defined as AB can also be called a “high beta” or “civilisational high beta” as Atlas does. I’m not wedded to terms. If that’s what you want to call it, these are the “acceptable levels of beta”.

douchebag_throwaway3 · 2019-03-27T07:04:56+00:00

I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

Barely-moral · 2019-03-27T08:27:42+00:00

Alpha: This guy can get sex just based on his physical appearance and short term interactions (charisma/demeanor) alone. He does not need to bring anything else to the table in order to get laid (he can bring more to the table, he just doesn't need to do it). He is sexually attractive to that point.

Beta: This guy can't get sex using only his appearance and short term interactions. He needs to bring something else to the table. Usually that something is money, status, comfort, commitment, something like that. If he is not bringing something other than his appearance and short term interactions to the table, he does not get laid. He can be attractive (attractive in general) but he is not sexually attractive enough to get laid unless he brings something else to the table.

What are the physical characteristics of an alpha and a beta?

Attractive. I know, it is vague. This could change depending on context. Obviously deformed people will rarely be alpha if ever, but there is no set of characteristics.

What are the personality characteristics of an alpha and a beta? What are the behaviors that signify an alpha and a beta?

Again. This could change, there is no set of characteristics/behaviour. Whatever is attractive to women in short term interactions. Obviously a man-baby will rarely be alpha if ever.

Can an alpha fall in love and/or get married?

Yes

Is a man who marries automatically a beta?

No

Are there exceptions and/or an acceptable level of beta? .

Whatever gets you to have the kind of life you want is fine.

flyinghorse1 · 2019-03-27T09:26:59+00:00

I wish we entertained the other personalities too like Omega and Sigma. There's tons of men who are in charge of their own lives but don't wish to be leaders (alpha).

ScootsScoots · 2019-03-27T12:56:18+00:00

I've been on this sub for about 5 minutes and this thread is everywhere.

Look it the fuck up dipshit.

Sidebars.

wingbark · 2019-03-27T14:02:36+00:00

Oh okay I’ll try to answer.

Physical characteristic for alpha: meets basic level of fitness, has good shoulder to waist ratio, avg height to tall, dresses well

Physical characteristics for beta: tough to answer for me because I think there’s a wide range.

I think alphas are dominant and aggressive and impulsive, while betas are more restrained and passive and contemplative

If he’s allll the way on the end of the alpha scale Tryler Durden style then no marriage for alpha. I think there needs to be a mixture to fall in love and get married.

Marriage is a beta thing so I think every man who gets married has some beta traits. Possibly very few but still.

Yes, I don’t think beta is necessarily negative or unattractive in the right amount and context. Being a good father is beta and that’s a good attractive thing for lots of women.

zenzizenzizenzike · 2019-03-27T05:57:56+00:00

Can anyone explain to me why people still use "alphas" and "betas" when even Dave Mech, the researcher credited with popularizing it, has disavowed the terminology after his 1999 findings that wild grey wolves form packs consisting of a breeding pair and their offspring?

So, by that metric, an alpha would be a coupled man who takes good care of his cubs.

embitteredMaleLoser · 2019-03-27T08:33:38+00:00

Psychological strength and power are the essence of being alpha. Put simply, it's the ability to define and achieve your own goals, and bend others to your will where necessary.

Generalized traits like ambition, determination, having an "iron will", ruthlessness, selfishness, manipulativeness, "frame" ie self assuredness, charisma, willingness to engage in conflict, risk taking, rebelliousness and bending the rules, social dominance, competitiveness - these are all alpha traits.

They are the traits of the male primate who is most likely to thrive in a state of nature - in a situation where rival gangs of males are scheming, competing and warring with each other over limited resources.

This is not some hodgepodge of unsupported shit, this is the same blueprint conveyed by the "dark triad" concept in psychology, or in the "bad boy" love interest prevalent in any young female adult-oriented fiction. There is a certain recognizable force in male psychology which some are simply born with, and some without. Call it balls. Call it having high T. Call it the will to power. Call it having a vein of hard, black iron in your soul. Over at TRP, they use the term alpha. If that term was erased from our minds today, there'd be a need to invent it.

Now let us turn our attention to the beta. He is the male primate whose relatives benefit not because he is the best or the strongest, but because he sacrifices the most. He is the hard worker, the relentless forager, the one who toes the line and avoids risks, and maybe avoids the power struggles that kill many of his fellows. He's the stable guy, the safe choice, the one women will grudgingly fuck in exchange for his extra food. Everything he does - everything he is - is low risk, low reward. He doesn't excite women, but doesn't repel them either.

The beta is not the weakling of the pack, he's middle of the road, which implies at least some degree of quality. He is not the opposite of the alpha. He's respected, just not feared or admired. Beta traits aren't outright cowardice, laziness or social phobia. Betas are often socially adroit. They know how to fit in, and are often extremely hard working, noble, generous, kind, dutiful, and self sacrificing. The essence of beta is the successful follower, the one who excels at helping others achieve their goals. A family is generally better off for having a few betas in it.

Still, such a figure hardly excites lust - the female NEED to have a man's seed right away. Betas are plentiful, after all. One needn't be in a rush to get knocked up by one.

LobsterOmelette · 2019-03-27T05:42:31+00:00

It's issues like that why I can't think why anyone in their right mind would think that discussions here actually go anywhere and that any of it actually represents how things work in the real world.

subgamer90 · 2019-03-27T06:08:04+00:00

It's all bullshit classifications that come out of a need to put everyone into a neat little box. Human social dynamics aren't as simple as alpha and beta. Even the guy who coined the terms as they relate to wolves admitted he was wrong and even wolf interactions aren't as simple as alpha and beta.

People use alpha to typically refer to a guy who's charming, confident, good at picking up girls, and a 'natural' leader. Betas are guys who are socially awkward pushovers who don't understand how to be attractive to the opposite sex and who are not dominant.

My opinion, as far as the common definitions of alpha and beta, is if you sign a government contract giving a woman power over you AKA marriage you're a cuck. You could be the biggest baddest dude who ever lived. I don't care, you signed your balls away, you're a cuck.

It's also funny to me how some of these dudes think being good at picking up chicks at the bar makes you more alpha than a billionaire. Lmao

AutoModerator · 2019-03-27T05:28:14+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Eastuss · 2019-03-27T08:14:38+00:00

What are the physical characteristics of an alpha and a beta?

An idealistic alpha is physically superior. But that's not the most important trait.

What are the personality characteristics of an alpha and a beta?

What are the behaviors that signify an alpha and a beta?

Alpha takes stuff, beta gives stuff.

Is a man who marries automatically a beta?

He's automatically not an alpha, but this doesn't hold true for very wealthy people.

Are there exceptions and/or an acceptable level of beta? .

Being a beta isn't actually bad, beta men can't access the best things in life for them and that's about it. People often talk of "high beta" as what most women search for, a man who is dominant and assertive enough but beta enough to still give women something back.

passepar2t · 2019-03-27T08:20:09+00:00

Alphas are less agreeable, less neurotic and more dominant than betas.

rockbottommale123 · 2019-03-27T10:57:17+00:00

Alphas are men that lead, have a good frame and are able to rally people around them.

You can be an alpha male in many different ways, but if you eliminate the outliers and coincidences, the typical alpha male is going to be:

Fit, muscular, have an ectomorph or mesomorph body, tall, a natural leader, confident.

The typical beta male is going to be less fit, not very muscular, often an endomorph body, short and lacking confidence.

sadomasochrist · 2019-03-27T13:26:44+00:00

Is a man who marries automatically a beta?

Marriage is blue pill. But you can get married and see other people, happens all the time.

All the rest is answered in my AF\BB post. Didn't like it, too bad. My post isn't speculative, it's authoritative. Why you wastin' your time?

AngryNurse2019 · 2019-03-28T12:09:36+00:00

It doesn’t exist. The terms were based on discredited studies of wolves in captivity.

Title	Discussion: let’s get on the same page with “alpha” and “beta.”
Author	poppy_blu
Upvotes	3
Comments	240
Date	March 27, 2019 5:28 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/b60hvz/discussion_lets_get_on_the_same_page_with_alpha/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-lets-get-on-the-same-page-with-alpha.256587 https://theredarchive.com/post/256587

Comments