Q4RP: Do you think it's okay to lie to women or hide your intentions in order to get sex?

DareyFathom · 2018-05-11T03:10:54+00:00

I'm willing to bet the M.O. is to use ambiguity as a means to avoid "lying." Because ultimately, if you want to get optimal results with western women, lying is a useful tactic.

blackedoutfast · 2018-05-11T03:52:06+00:00

if you haven't had "the talk" and officially agreed to be exclusive with each other, you should assume that it's not exclusive.

it's not just men who are intentionally ambiguous or vague about that shit so they can fuck around. a lot of women don't want to know about other women the guy is fucking and won't probe too much because they want to maintain the fiction. ignorance is bliss and all that. a lot of women are ok with being one of several plates, but they don't want to know it. if the guy doesn't say anything, she can maintain plausible deniability in her head.

as a practical matter, dudes should NOT start talking about relationships and wanting to be exclusive and all that regardless of whether its true or not. looking like you are desperate for a relationship will hurt your chances more than it will help. but you also shouldn't make a big deal about how you would never be in a relationship with her.

basically, until you have "the talk" it's a dont ask don't tell situation. but assume the other person is fucking other people and use protection.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-05-11T03:14:53+00:00

It should be understood and expected that men want sex with as little investment as possible.

I don’t lie to women. I simply make them sell the virtues of commitment to me. They can always change my mind.

InertBrian · 2018-05-11T03:46:30+00:00

It’s not okay to lie to women to get sex unless it’s a ONS & you’ll never see her again + the lie won’t hurt her or anyone else in some manner (like claiming you don’t have an STD when you do).

As for hiding your intentions it depends on how you define it:

In the PUA industry they’re now advocating being direct from the get go “hey I think you’re cute and I’d be kicking myself if I didn’t come over and talk to you”. That’s unusual & unattractive behavior, period. Because it’s putting pussy on a pedestal. And you’re only valuing the person for their set of cheek bones, set of eyes, hair, and they’re body figure. Not who the person actually is!

With that said, I hide my intent verbally (I won’t tell you outright I like you unless you’ve won me over with your personality after enough rapport). But I will show interest with my body language.

It’s more attractive to be ambiguous, and it makes sense because you should feel the person out first, before fully deciding that you like them, instead of liking them no matter what, because it’s simply low value-needy behavior.

Edit: I’m new to this sub and I know the question is specifically targeting red pillers, but I am a moderate red piller so I hope my opinion still interests you 🤙🏻

Entropy-7 · 2018-05-11T04:17:54+00:00

I've said elsewhere that the seduction process is not like an IPO prospectus. There is no positive obligation to disclose every material fact that might influence the other person's decision.

That being said, an outright lie is simply wrong.

OTOH, unless a woman conveys her intentions (honestly) then I can only assume that we are going down the garden path together. If what happens happens then that is one thing. If she says some shit like "I love and want to be with you forever" as we start to get it on, that for me is a huge boner killer unless I feel the same way. For those who still have an erection, just say no.

But putting the shoe on the other foot, many women will lie like a rug as part of their ASD. There was this one girl/woman (34 but with the body of a teenager; GOD I love living in China) who was a business professional, whip smart and a lot of fun. First date she tells me she is only looking for something long term. That created an awkward tension because I was totally into her but the logistics were not favourable: we lived a city apart and her earnings at that time outstripped me by 10 to 1. I figured there was nothing there but we had a second date because I enjoyed her company.

And we smashed. Oh, did we smash.

And then she ghosts me.

She got a new job in a new city and I had prospects there, so I was willing to pursue them and pursue a relationship with her, but she would have none of it.

In the aftermath, as far as I can tell, she was already engaged and I was a fling. I got PnD'd.

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-05-11T11:55:16+00:00

Everything is ok in this joke culture, so yes

exit_sandman · 2018-05-11T07:33:16+00:00

If you operate from a "sexual strategy is amoral" perspective, it's okay (which would also apply to similar female behavior).

Besides this, I'd say it's roughly in the same ballpark as exploiting orbiters for personal gain (a ONS would be the equivalent of leeching off guys who give you free drinks for the entire evening only to disappear with some stud right in front of their eyes, a continued long term FWB-arrangement with a woman who wants more is like the usual friendzoning situation where you monopolize his time, attention and affection without intending to reciprocate).

[deleted] · 2018-05-11T08:07:45+00:00

Before I would have said no. But a recent string of experiences with a few women in my life has ultimately made me not give a fuck anymore.

AstuteBlackMan · 2018-05-11T04:24:20+00:00

Personally. Nope. But I don't care if other men do. Women lie all the time

I don't lie. I finesse and if finessing doesn't work I'm up front and honest. She can't be mad at the truth.

FairlyNaive · 2018-05-11T07:14:11+00:00

There are so many sluts i wonder why the guys keep doing. Getting nsa sex is easier than ever.

I dont know what "ok" means in the context, i dont do it myself. Its unprodictive and can backfire badly.

M4sterDis4ster · 2018-05-11T07:43:10+00:00

Do you think it is ok for women to lie about their sexual history ?

Do you think lying in order to take autonomy of judgment is ok ?

Do you think it is ok for women to lie to get into marriage and then divorce 7 years down the road ?

Do you think it is ok for women to lie that men are attractive, while you are just after his financial status ?

So, to answer your question ; Yes, I think lying to women is ok in order to get sex. Most western women already had or have casual sex, so I dont really see what is the difference if her number will be bigger for 1. She will lie about it eventually to her dear beloved husband.

OfSpock · 2018-05-11T07:10:26+00:00

I think it's wrong but very prevalent so I won't be holding my breath waiting for it to go away.

[deleted] · 2018-05-11T09:24:05+00:00

If he lies about commitment, yeah, there's no way I can think of to justify it. As in, you ask him and he verbally confirms. If it's ambiguous, as in you don't talk about it or avoid it, well that's normal and even advisable if your goal is to sleep with many women.

I regret 90% of my casual sexual encounters because they all in a sense involved lying. Women pretending that it was no big deal in order to, in my estimation, get in a relationship and me lying to myself saying that it was purely superficial when I would have liked to see where it went.

You should always leave her better than you found her, so the shit sex is his inexperience and ignorance. Personally, if she doesn't get from A to B, I don't consider myself to have "gotten laid", it was just assisted masturbation.

ElectronicReport · 2018-05-11T17:39:36+00:00

Lying is a short term results kinda thing. Red Pill always talk about “alpha”, but not being your true self and telling people what they want to hear because you’re afraid of rejection is the most “beta” way you can possibly act.

There are plenty of women that are cool with hook ups. Seriously. Just tell them at in appropriate time that you’re just looking for something casual. Say it in a way where you are perfectly fine with them walking away if it’s not what they want. Even the women who walk will respect you for being honest and true to yourself. And the ones that are down for a FWB will be more attracted because you didn’t pussyfoot about what you want.

gasparddelanuit · 2018-05-11T05:27:44+00:00

I think whether it's okay or not depends on the woman. Does the woman deserve better treatment or is she a self-centred, selfish and mercenary individual, greedily pursuing her own self-interests? If she lies and has hidden intentions, then it's a fair situation if the man does the same. If she is an exemplary person, then I would say not.

[deleted] · 2018-05-11T09:29:04+00:00

Not really. Lying is a bad idea because it causes future drama.

Besides, if a woman finds you attractive you can say nearly anything and she will still sleep with you.

Less_Salt · 2018-05-11T03:27:05+00:00

Yeah, its ok.

Why do people care so much about morals. Whether something is 'okay.' It's just sex. Is it illegal to hide your intentions? No.

[deleted] · 2018-05-11T15:33:26+00:00

Absolutely it is 100% a-OK to lie, manipulate, deceive and defraud to get what you want.

•Do you think it's okay to tell a woman whatever you think she wants to hear (e.g. that you're open to or looking for a relationship) in order to get her into bed?

Without question.

•Do you think it's okay to hide your intentions and let her think she might have a future with you when all you want is casual sex?

Without question or hesitation.

Women do this all the time to get what they want. Women have for the last 60+ years after the sex rev feigned sexual attraction to get men to marry and support them. Women have since time immemorial used the soft powers of deceit, fraud, manipulation, and scheming to get men to do their bidding, whether that be using money, hiring or firing people, making purchases, getting kids married off, using husband's influence and power, etc.

Women wanted equality. Here it is, good and hard.

Men have always lied to get sex. The only difference is that now, women are more aware of this and there is greater economic parity between men and women. With said greater economic parity comes a price, and that price is men's greater willingness and need to use dishonesty, subterfuge, subversion, and fraud to get what they want and need.

That greater economic parity means women no longer need protection from the predations of men. Women are strong and independent. So they don't need men to be honest or above board with them. Women can bear the same or similar risks men must bear.

AutoModerator · 2018-05-11T02:43:17+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

the_calibre_cat · 2018-05-11T03:58:18+00:00

certainly most men will not lie just to get sex... but some may omit...

reluctantly_red · 2018-05-11T05:29:59+00:00

This is why I usually didn't say much to ONS. If it's a physical relationship keep it so -- turn up the stereo and enjoy the night.

statsfodder · 2018-05-11T05:50:21+00:00

"Yeah all i want is no strings attached" ... "oh I always want sex!" ... "kids aren't in my plans as yet" ... "of course I'm not with you because of your money" ...

Humans are shit they all lie if that is what is needed to get what they want, get better at picking who is and isn't lying.

[deleted] · 2018-05-11T16:43:46+00:00

quicklogaccount · 2018-05-11T17:40:14+00:00

Do you think it's okay to tell a woman whatever you think she wants to hear (e.g. that you're open to or looking for a relationship) in order to get her into bed?

No. But there's a loophole there, namely, you are always open to a relationship. And even if that was an illustration, somehow it's a classic, most women need to know there might spur a relationship. There always might, damn.
But If your intention is to convey to her that you ARE considering her for a relationship in order to have sex, you're not just morally wrong. You're being bad, you're employing bad game, and you should feel bad.

Do you think it's okay to hide your intentions and let her think she might have a future with you when all you want is casual sex?

If you are aware that this is the reason that is opening her legs, no. Worsened if this is why she had sex on the first place.
If you KNOW, you have responsibility. But you must not make the assumption.

mistercheeez-o____O- · 2018-05-11T18:51:32+00:00

I don't personally think it's okay to lie to get sex. It's a conscious decision, because it does "sacrifice" many opportunities in the process. Even the women who seek a relationship want a bit of a 'challenge', but I'll make my intentions clear despite their leanings.

[deleted] · 2018-05-11T21:41:03+00:00

reasoning is: not lying and having sex > lying to have sex > not lying and having no sex

SilentLurker666 · 2018-05-12T04:00:48+00:00

Do you think it's okay to tell a woman whatever you think she wants to hear (e.g. that you're open to or looking for a relationship) in order to get her into bed?

As long as it's not false. Sure

Do you think it's okay to hide your intentions and let her think she might have a future with you when all you want is casual sex?

I think Op suffers from some major misconception here; women usually don't ask their date whether they are looking for a relationship. They are more concern to gage the male's future prospect then to actually ask if the male is interested in future prospect of relationship, and sometimes, the women might be the one leaving because the male didn't measure up.

I suggest OP take a break from PPD and actually take a walk in reality instead of being constantly trying to play "gotchya" in r/PPD.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2018-05-12T16:09:06+00:00

for all the males who lie or lie by omission (i.e being ambiguous) out there: you deserve every true and false rape accusation and divorce rape (should a woman be that stupid to marry you). oh, and STDs.

prostate-apostate · 2018-05-12T22:40:20+00:00

Woman lie to guys they want favors from by promising them sex and then re-neg their promise after they get said favor.

Is it the decent thing to do ofc not , but woman aren't being decent so why should men .

Everybody is screwing everybody and you are dumb if you don't wise up to it .

[deleted] · 2018-05-13T00:00:46+00:00

I WOULD NEVER DO A LIE

LeJacquelope · 2018-05-13T02:49:22+00:00

What if she does this to you, is that cool? No? Well then there's your answer to this thread.

newName543456 · 2018-05-13T22:29:01+00:00

It's dumb to do that, because saying you want an LTR can open you to more stricter vetting and delaying sexual gratification because "relationship should be more than just sex".

So no thanks, morality aside.

decoy88 · 2018-05-11T05:34:41+00:00

If you're a guy and not a 10/10 or 9/10 and you want to freely bang girls on your level.

Guess what

you have to lie, or invest shit tons of cash into the roid game.

InformalCriticism · 2018-05-11T09:20:12+00:00

In a word, yes. TRP is amoral, so if it works, it works.

The justification is even easier than that - women lie to men endlessly. Perhaps not with their mouths, though they do that plenty. Women wear high heels, push up bras, makeup, hair dye, and a lot of them get cosmetic surgery. And your question is, "is it okay for men to lie to women?"

[deleted] · 2018-05-11T11:29:15+00:00

Most women have men or a man meant to protect them; a father, a husband, a brother, an uncle, etc.

When women step out on their own, all bets are off. Especially for rebellious women. The cost of freedom to challenge authority is the loss of protection.

So, I'll argue that it's rarely ever okay to lie at all; but that a number of women taken advantage of had it coming.

whitetrashcarl · 2018-05-11T17:14:40+00:00

My vibe with women I’m seeing is casual, sexual, straightforward. Women know what they’re getting with me. It’s not unusual that I’ve got scratch marks or bites or whatever from other women. What you see is what you get. If she looks past all that and still pushes the relationship issue, I’ll tell her things like “what do you think,” or “I’m a long way from that,” or “maybe some day...” Generally I’ll just be noncommittal and let her take it or leave it

Of course most women hate making decisions like that, most women will not be the one to say “ok fine ill leave it.,” they want to put it on the man to make that decision. Well, I’m not taking on that responsibility. If she likes it she can stay if not she can go

[deleted] · 2018-05-11T18:38:14+00:00

Yes

It's a useful tactic, for most guys if they dont do it then they don't get laid.

Wallstreet3 · 2018-05-11T20:23:36+00:00

Lying and stringing a girl along to get sex carries risks. So, it may not be in your best interests.

Morality is merely a tool of revenge for the weak.

Title	Q4RP: Do you think it's okay to lie to women or hide your intentions in order to get sex?
Author	ElectronicReport
Upvotes	10
Comments	200
Date	May 11, 2018 2:43 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8ikhyo/q4rp_do_you_think_its_okay_to_lie_to_women_or/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4rp-do-you-think-its-okay-to-lie-to-women-or-hide.262497 https://theredarchive.com/post/262497

Comments