Positive vs Toxic RP

Epicureanist · 2015-08-15T22:30:23+00:00

-"Manipulate her with promises of commitment" -"Manipulate him with promises of sex" -"Threaten to leave her/him not because you plan to, but just to scare them into doing things for you. Haha, what a loser" -"Go out of your way to treat women like shit! They really get off on that!" (Reality: some might put up with it, because you're out of their league.) -"Go ahead and treat men like dogs/ATM's, they just looove cold bitches!" (Reality: some might put up with it, because you're out of their league.)

Where is any of that advised or recommended? Can you provide a link to a thread?

Dietyz · 2015-08-15T22:43:50+00:00

When does TRP promise commitment? TRP is more of an unemotional stance that wont commit verbally and will dodge any shit test that would lead to commitment. That's not lying though

I don't see TRP threatening to leave either, at least not verbally. You just dread game, which may implant the idea that you will leave but you would never actually say that

Trp says to hold frame, if you said you were gonna do one of those things and did the other it would make you look weak. TRP doesn't endorse lying

Interversity · 2015-08-15T22:33:12+00:00

I read the title and thought I would fully agree with the post, but no. All the positives you listed are correct, but the 'negatives' are just wrong. If anything, you should point out the level of echo chamber in the sub, the amount of outright woman hating in the comments, the idea that women are not capable of making smart/rational decisions, etc.

There is plenty of fodder in TRP that you could have ripped into and instead you chose things that don't even happen.

TRPThrowRug · 2015-08-17T07:48:35+00:00

If two humans barter for goods and services, and one gets a better deal due to their smart bargaining skills. Is that morally wrong?

Would it be right to save that only one gender is ever allowed to get a better bargain for goods and services?

So why would it follow that only Women are allowed to get a "better bargain" in sexual relations without being viewed as a morally bankrupt person?

Isn't the idea that influencing somebody in a sexual relationship is bad, but only when men do it, kinda sexist?

mrgoditself · 2015-08-15T23:24:37+00:00

Manipulate her with promises of commitment

Actually, you tell your fwb as soon as possible that you are not interested in relationship. Of course, even if the girl is mad/sad most of the girls come back, because they hamster it out, that they will get commitment in time. But she's a logical being, we said, we don't want a relationship she still comes back, don't see why RP becomes the bad guys, that just use women by this statement.

Threaten to leave her/him not because you plan to, but just to scare them into doing things for you. Haha, what a loser"

This is actually a nuclear shit test from women. We guys, don't do it, because women hate ultimatums.

Go out of your way to treat women like shit! They really get off on that!

Treat her like a child, dominate, lead, don't let her walk over you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3ganqp/female_strategic_response_to_trp_pua/

First comment answers pretty well. Most women do most of those things naturally- why? Because they are natural professionals at manipulation, while most of the guys need to learn that. TRP doesn't hide that sexual strategy is amoral, but there is always one person that is more happy than the other in relationship , we choose to be that person.

Go ahead and treat men like dogs/ATM's, they just looove cold bitches

Well women treat betas like dogs naturally- i don't see what does RP has to do with anything, just read relationship subreddit, how betas get cuckolded, abused, left with feelings ignored. RPW as much as I know works completely different, they want to help women to help their men to lead, so they both could be happy. So this statement if plain wrong.

You just don't realize how everything works. A girl starts bitching, giving you commands, ignoring you or just refusing sex - for no reason- how do you deal with it? RP teaches simple techniques, that in society eyes turn you into an asshole, because you ignore her, give her even a bigger cold shoulder, don't deal with her shit.

[deleted] · 2015-08-15T22:33:32+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Xemnas81 · 2015-08-15T22:35:25+00:00

When I was blue I used to do this hamstering that red was wrong because of bad red, but in time I realised that you need to be taught about bad red to understand why you have to do good red. You don't have to do bad red but you have to know bad red and tbh it helps to do bad red because bad red'll be done to you. Maybe one day you'll learn blue.

joseremarque · 2015-08-15T22:51:47+00:00

Most of the good stuff about Red Pill is about being a better and more attractive human and being able to have satisfying sexual and emotional relationships. The bad stuff is related to the kind of people who would hang out all day on an internet message board and talk about the Red Pill (immaturity, misogyny, lack of social skills or self awareness). Most complaints I hear about the Red Pill are the equivalent of saying you don't like Marijuana because Reggae music sucks and skateboarding is dangerous.

f3yleaf · 2015-08-16T00:29:12+00:00

Alot of PUA shit works, some of it is counterproductive to attractive(or even regular) guys and some guys self-sabotage by being "gamey" instead of making a girl feel a connection, but it still works and is usually better for socially inept guys than being themselves.

That being said a rp guy with a positive attitude and a masculine mindset will be more effective than a guy doing "outer game", girls are not really that complicated and flirting is fun.

Im referring to a party setting obviously, being an amused dbag is almost always better than being honest+sweet, once she is attracted she will find all your nerdy shit interesting, if she is not attracted it does not matter how sophisticated and intelligent you are.

Pattern/routine based pickup is not useful unless your name is Ted Bundy, its better to be yourself and not giving a fuck (courage is hot). Ive said some insanely self-deprecating things and still gotten laid, the trick is to have an abundance mentality(core rp game)

edit: Be yourself, but stop giving a fuck, never apologize for yourself and have a positive attitude.

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2015-08-16T00:30:10+00:00

absolute misunderstanding of TRP. TRP is more than self improvement, it is about understanding attraction itself and applying the knowledge.

This constant garbage about separating the sexism from the self improvement comes from a feminine perspective. Men want to know why things work. When we ask such questions and actually look into the science of how men and women are different, we become surprised and angry at how the extremist feminist brainwashing has stunted our growth. the anger is our motivator to do the self improvement.

The only reason this same type of argument keeps being trotted out is that TRP is offensive, because it is true. Women are terrified that men will see them as fallible human beings, and so shame TRP knowledge, saying that men should just improve themselves in order to be the lucky man chosen by a woman.

No. TRP gives men the tools they need to be successful and not walk on eggshells. We can dictate the pace and the formation of the relationship. women can't have such a loss of power, so they use the only tactic they have: shaming.

Ocean_Squeeze · 2015-08-16T16:33:30+00:00

The positive side boils down to attracting the opposite sex. Things like:

All of the things you've listed are stuff that people like to do anyway. RPers do it thinking that they'll be happier once they've done enough self-improvement crap so for me this is pretty negative, as it encourages negative cycles of thought.

smokingmonkey420 · 2015-08-16T19:31:25+00:00

Eh. That's a bit much. I think you're correct in terms of the positive aspects of TRP but I don't agree with your characterization of the negative. Manipulating women with promises of commitment is beta, or dark triad, but most definitely not Alpha. As a great writer once said, "women would rather share an alpha than be stuck with a beta." In other words, why would an Alpha lie? He has no reason or incentive.

The negative side has more to do with things like Hypergamy, Solopsism, and the general inequalities and hypocrisy of the SMP. Basically, SMV is of the utmost importance in life and a lot of men are just fucked due to genetics and life circumstances.

Lonny_zone · 2015-08-16T22:55:58+00:00

The thing is, women manipulate all the time, it just comes instinctually to them so nobody hates on it (but TRP).

bonerdude420 · 2015-08-16T01:10:53+00:00

The toxic part is the black and white approach towards AWALT and AF/BB, both are serious redpill hamstering that can be easily disproven by turning off the computer and going outside. It is confirmation bias gone mad.

Silly stuff like 'don't get married, 50% of marriages fail, AWALT', while ignoring that they're simultaneously implying that 50% of marriages succeed. And if they are so aware of social strategy/management, why aren't they confident of having the tools to maintain a successful marriage.

Also the idea that 'alpha' is some kind of highschool jock stereotype. Despite that fact the overwhelming majority of elite men in our society are married with a family

wazzup987 · 2015-08-16T05:47:25+00:00

The positive side boils down to attracting the opposite sex. Things like: -Hit the gym -Eat healthy -Groom/dress well -Have an active social life Also some of the behaviours RP recommends like: -Have self respect -Don't ever get clingy -Tease people. Play with them -Meet a lot of people/Have options

i dont want to piss in your corn flakes but none of that rp, and isn't even male specific

scrantonic1ty · 2015-08-16T16:14:56+00:00

What is the point in these threads/posts? Even if you were right, this isn't the place to discuss why you think TRP is "toxic" or immoral. Even if they agreed with your points they don't give a toss about other people's moral misgivings.

The only question that matters to TRP is "does it help me achieve my goals?"

trp_zzz · 2015-08-15T22:43:49+00:00

I think the positive & negative parts of redpill are due for a split.

/r/PunchingMorpheus has already done that. There's your 'positive'. Hmmm, looks kind of dead - maybe that "negativity" is actually valuable.

but if the message comes from people who support the toxic side, they might choose to ignore valuable advice.

Not my problem or anyone else's problem. TRP isn't looking to recruit true believers.

Look, I'd like to help lame men become less lame. But you can't force red pill ideas on people, you can't sugar coat them or water them down. You can't save everyone, or really, much of anyone. You certainly can't help them by lying to them, which is what your proposal for not talking about "negative" things like AF/BB, hypergamy, dread game, etc. is.

Archwinger · 2015-08-15T23:44:45+00:00

Gym? Groom? I can get that benign, obvious advice anywhere.

The only place I can learn about hating stupid women is the red pill.

Title	Positive vs Toxic RP
Author	full-nudes-please
Upvotes	4
Comments	237
Date	August 15, 2015 10:22 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3h537j/positive_vs_toxic_rp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/positive-vs-toxic-rp.280292 https://theredarchive.com/post/280292

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