why is there so much hate in trp?

littledazed · 2014-09-09T02:43:22+00:00

Because it's easier to blame (and hate) women than for them to take responsibility for their own character flaws.

It's harder to be introspective.

littledazed · 2014-09-09T02:31:09+00:00

[deleted]

littledazed · 2014-09-09T02:24:50+00:00

[deleted]

littledazed · 2014-09-09T02:06:36+00:00

Eh, I used to be bitter about my lack of success in relationships and I grew out of it. Obviously not a part of the TRP community. Anyway, I think a lot of it is immaturity and entitlement, which is a common theme amongst bitter individuals.

ExpendableOne · 2014-09-09T16:31:02+00:00

We live in a society that is far from perfect, and that perpetuates a lot of toxic attitudes, hatred, fear-mongering, unrealistic/unfair expectations, manipulation and negative consequences against men. It's easy to ignore these issues, or sweep them under the rug by saying "they don't want to take responsibilities for their character flaws"(ignoring the fact that no amount of "self-improvement" or "sexual strategy" would ever resolve these social/gender issues or that the expectations are placed on men because of their gender; not because of their character), but the issues are still a reality and they will certainly affect some more than others. You may not understand the anger but your own lack of understanding doesn't mean it isn't justified. If you are serious about trying to understand it though, you are clearly going about it in the wrong way(this post seems, if anything, incredibly underhanded and is in the wrong sub). The idea that you would be happier as a man is pretty laughable, especially given that all work/suicide/health stats, or the experiences of those who have lived as both(if not even the disparity in MtF compared to FtM), are clearly against you.

FullRedvolution · 2014-09-09T03:17:21+00:00

It's because of the vast disparity between how men are told women are and how they actually behave in reality.

Smilingbluekitties · 2014-09-09T04:32:56+00:00

It seems like the red pill attracts a fair amount of men who had parents that divorced. They experienced a loss of security and stability and now they are trying to gain back their power. I think a lot of men grow up with the burden of having to control their fears and sadness. It gets bottled up, and has to be released; anger is an acceptable way of doing that.They build walls to protect themselves, but to me it reads as unwilling to let their guard down and are trying to hide something. They seem hurt to me. I also see the point about the language they are using- they are swearing and a lot of it is terrible and frankly makes me sick to my stomach. However, the things they write might not be meant to be read in a maniacal rage. They are just having a bro-out and in real life, they wouldn't be saying these things in front of me because I would have left a long time ago. I suspect the anger is the fire to take action in improving their lot and it's exhilarating.

lev21pirate · 2014-09-09T02:39:19+00:00

It is not so much hatred as it is raw.

VarsitySlutTeamCpt · 2014-09-09T02:58:04+00:00

Cuz they've been told lies growing up on how to interact with women, especially the way to attain sex from them.

Usually the anger stage is the beginning part of swallowing the pill and in the end they just accept that women are going to be women.

an_absolute_rose · 2014-09-09T04:01:43+00:00

You have no idea what it's like to be an average man.

I'm young and for some reason blues have issue with this, but hear me out.

Some brief background info: I was raised with extremely blue pill values. My parents are not divorced but they might as well have been. My father was much more married to his job than he was my mother. I never understood why until I found /r/theredpill but that's a different story. My cousin has been my best friend since we were little. He was raised very red pill by his single father. My other best friend is a pretty boy and generally gets laid for his looks.

And then there's me. I'll start from four years ago to cut out some detail. I came into high school at 5'3 150 lbs. I had a Justin Bieber hair cut and severe acne. My teeth were fucked up; I had buck teeth and twisted bottom teeth. Safe to say that at this point in my life I probably didn't have any women check me out. My sophomore cousin didn't have this problem. He had worked his way into his high schools varsity football team and was quickly becoming one of his high school's strongest men. Me and him are both country strong but ample time in the weight room did wonders for him. He lost his virginity this year. My friend was setting records for the cross country team for freshman and was in choir. He had a steady girl friend at this point. She was ight, I have plenty of funny stories about her and him. At the time all I could do was listen to my buddies stories though as a kissless virgin with braces.

Before my Sophomore year I cut my hair for the baseball team. I was alright but I sprained my back (paying basketball) before tryouts and ended up getting cut. I didn't love baseball so I finally had an opportunity to quit. I kept my hair short though. I joined the football team hoping to follow in my cousins footsteps. I was still passing basketball and me and my friend were getting good for or age. I ended up meeting a girl who was about a high school 7 at the time. We hit it off but eventually she got bored of me after a couple "dates". Our last date was a double date with my friend who she talked to me more than I that night.

By my first football game I was 5'7 165 and the slimmest I have ever been. I was playing linebacker which in our coaches defense meant that I was in coverage instead of blitzing. I wanted to move forward so I decided to put on weight and move to DL. My cousin at this point was playing both ways and was spending a lot of time with his buddy whose in college. Then my cousin fucked a 23 year old. Word got out and he ended becoming the big man on his high school campus. My friend finally slept with his steady girl friend. Me? I was still a kissless virgin with braces.

By junior year I was up to 5'11 190. With clothes on I looked pretty stacked. I would get swollested pretty often by a particular group of girls. I had kept up a ruse of alphaness with these girls until the slut of the group out of the blue asked me if I was a virgin. I was a shit liar back then so I opted to end the ruse and admit it. I went from having two hot girl's and an average girl's attentions to only having the average girl's attention within mere moments. My friend? He ended up getting the two hot girls in his car topless and drunk and decided not to fuck them because he had a girlfriend. Noble right? Nah, he's cheated on several different girl friends by this point. His blueness frustrated me sometimes. I have only had two close friends stick over the years and I've felt like an outsider around then because of my lack of success with the opposite sex.

I ended up dating the average girl who was my first sexual partner. She broke up with me for her alpha ex for a multitude of beta reasons. I finally got by braces off and let my beard grow out. I was gaining weight for football during this period to move to OL because the coach I liked switched from DL to OL along with an incompetent DL coach being hired. I ballooned up to 223 pounds at my heaviest. My senior season got derailed by illness and injuries. I got a couple concussions that I didn't report and then I got an upper respiratory infection. The infection made me drop my weight all the way down to 205 pounds in the span of a week and the season was basically over by this point.

Around this point I found /r/theredpill. Football ended and I watched my brothers cry and cry. I was the only senior who didn't. I've never been a big cryer, but football ending felt liberating to me. I hit the gym up and dropped my weight down to 170 pounds in a month and a half. Several months later and I had put 10 pounds back on in my arms and my lats. My upper body has always developed less than my lower. I have very strong legs and a well developed lower body. I didn't skip leg day. My chest is pretty well developed too. I'm not cut yet but I'll get there. I'm at a big out of state university on academic scholarship and live in an apartment with a couple roommates. I'm 18 and regularly get mistaken for being older than I am. I don't get carded often for over 18 and only sometimes get carded for over 21. My teeth are straight. I shave my own hair. I cook all my own food. I haven't had any dairy or gluten since moving out of parents house. I drink 64 ounces of water a day give or take.

Before I found /r/theredpill I hated women. I was nice and funny and smart. I played football. Yet none of the girls I talked to were interested in me romantically. Both of my best friends were getting laid left and right for such shallow reasons. My girl friend told me she loved me days before breaking up with me because her alpha ex moved back to our area. A girl that I was "friends" with one ignored my greeting in front of friends of mine; I know she saw me. A girl allowed me to give her fruit snacks for weeks. Ugly girls used to act bitchy to me or would ignore me while taking to my friends. My mother constantly belittled me. She made jokes about the lack of action I was getting. I'm sure she thought I was gay at some point. I didn't have my first kids until I was 17 and both of my best friends were natural alphas. My other friends were football players who had no issues getting laid. For the longest time I would leave conversations if they turned to talk about sexual acts or even "what did you do this weekend"; I sat around in my basement playing Xbox most likely. I had three former best friends decide that they straight up just didn't like me anymore basically over night. I can't blame them; I made any tingles they would cause evaporate with my mere presence. There was a year long period where the only contact I had with women was over Facebook. I asked for girls numbers too, but they never responded. I tried waiting a couple days and I tried leading with a joke. Neither were effective. My friends? They would have the phones blowing up constantly.

You have no idea how hard it was being me. You have no idea what I've been through. A year ago I might have hated you for that. Today I chalk it up to solipsism. How could I expect you to possibly know what I've been through. You haven't sent out hundreds of unique Facebook messages trying to find somebody interested in you. You have not created a fake Facebook profile to catfish girls just to feel like somebody's interested in you. You haven't allowed women to treat you like I have. You have not had a mother like I have; any effort of self improvement on my part has always been undermined by her. You don't know how much I've hated myself over the years. You don't know how many times I've thought legitimately about suicide.

And you know what? I know so many guys that are so much worse off than I. Guys would kill to be me. You probably haven't seen them either because they're invisible like I once was. You don't know what it's like be an average man and you sure as hell don't appreciate the struggles of below average men.

[deleted] · 2014-09-09T12:34:20+00:00

Yes, they can be that traumatized. Women are shamed for too much sex, men are shamed for not enough or none.

Renner1 · 2014-09-09T13:53:34+00:00

because trp always devolves into sort of a gender war/pity party rather then the sexual subreddit that is supposed to be.

Going to preface by stating that I am not a red piller or sympathetic to the red pill-- but essentially you're saying that red pill de facto turns into a gender-flipped "spear counterpart" of the gender feminist movement, with emphasis on the third waver "sex positives".

That's one thing amongst others that I take issue with the red pill over and I couldn't agree more that that's what it really ends up looking like at its worst.

I believe it is still a lot more preferable to be male then female

I guess that'd be something that you'd want to look at on a case-by-case basis more then anything else.

Smilingbluekitties · 2014-09-09T16:56:41+00:00

I think there is a contingent of the red pill that is making success with women a vehicle in which to achieve a higher social status. It's not just the frustration with women, is a desire to be a "winner" in the American culture of "winners" and "losers."

[deleted] · 2014-09-09T17:05:45+00:00

Caffeine and alcohol probably don't help.

RedPill115 · 2014-09-11T20:03:50+00:00

this has always bothered me because trp always devolves into sort of a gender war/pity party rather than the sexual strategy subreddit that is supposed to be. i think modern feminism has lost its purpose, at least in america, but i believe it is still a lot more preferable to be male than female.

One of the more valid critiques of TRP I've seen is that it's basically the male version of feminism. Likewise it adopts of the attitudes and way of talking as feminism does - just like feminism claims uses "men" to mean "some men", so does trp use "women" to mean "some women", and then of course eventually it slowly manipulates people into feeling that actually, it meant "all men/women" all along.

You'll notice the same kind of language used everywhere else in politics though - "liberals", "conservatives", watch Fox News for a while and you get the exact same kind of manipulated language and attitudes that feminism uses.

I believe the difference between feminism and trp is simply a reflection of gender - women are far more skilled at using language to wrap hate and anger in a nice candy covered coating where you don't immediately realize that's what they're saying, whereas trp doesn't wrap it in a candy covered coating.

When feminism means "I want more social power and I want to take it from men" they write an article saying "See how men sit taking up space on a train? This is the result of The Patriarchy, and is indicative of bla bla bla". When trp writes the same thing, it's not put behind a candy coating as nearly as much and the bitterness is far more in your face.

but i believe it is still a lot more preferable to be male than female.

That's because feminism and women are much better than men at manipulating the social system to enforce this absurd idea.

If you're a woman and you're not in jail, you might have to worry about being raped or in a domestic abuse situation (which the women who get into often seek out, but that's a different topic). If you're a man, you're 3 times more likely to be murdered. Your government can simply draft you into the army and force you to fight in their war (something women are protected from). Men are something like 9 times more likely to end up homeless than women - 9 times. In the early 1900's, women lived 2 years longer than men on average - this went up to something like 9 years longer, and now it's back to 5 years longer. Women have so much less dangerous lives, that their lives are substantially longer than a man's. Your odds of being shot by the police are worse as a black man rather than a white man, but are dwarfed by the better odds you would get by being a woman. As a woman, if you get punched in a bar, odds are that that guy will get jumped by many of the other guys there and get the shit beaten out of him. If you're a man however - well, fend for yourself, good luck. The bouncer might intervene, but you'll probably both be thrown out of the bar. You're multiple times more likely to get killed on the job, to take a hazardous job to begin with - the list goes on and on and on.

Can you name anything a woman can do that a man cannot? Feminists claim that women are more "afraid" for their safety - but the result is actually that women are safer, and live longer and less stressful lives as a result. Feminists say that women aren't in direct positions of authority much of the time - ceo's, political leaders, etc. But have you wondered if any of those are places you actually want to be? Do you think to yourself "good lord, barrack obama has things so great! I wish I was him!".

Women have been sitting in positions of safety and comfort and convincing men that they have it "so hard" so the men feel like they need to go out and work harder since...well probably the dawn of society.

Have you ever noticed how when someone says "women are raped" people rush to women's defense, but when men are shot, homeless, killed in war, end up having to take dangerous and unpleasant jobs, and as I said - live an average of 5 years less than women do - people mostly shrug, or are even able to get upset at you for talking about it?

I wish I got to be a girl. How awesome would it be to date by just being pretty then making choices on which pursuer to go with? Sure, it's more complicated than that, but that's not possibly "worse" than risk and uncertainty I have to go through as a guy. How awesome would it be to be able to have a part-time job in your mid 20's and people still want to date you, rather than getting the "oh...so you don't have your own place?" or "Oh, you're a loser who lives at home" that you get as a guy.

I could go on, but like I said, if you take out the all the fluff in the middle, the fact is - women live on average 5 years longer than men. Their lives are less stressful, and less dangerous.

We_Are_Legion · 2014-09-09T03:51:46+00:00

hey I'm just going to bypass this really bitter debate and focus on this:

do they really think females are the more privileged sex? obviously attractive gals (and attractive guys) find life a lot more enjoyable than your average chum, but this is a small fraction of the population. this surprises me because if i had a choice, i would have chosen to be born as a male.

OP, I find this statement really curious... thats a terrible thing to say... You know, I had an argument with cuitter yesterday, where I asserted the absolute badass potential of playing the market as a woman. let me I'm going to take an anti-RP position on this for once, and try and change your view.

So for argument's sake, I say, the greatest thing that RP does for its audience... is a placebo effect. On RP, we're often told not to settle down for any one woman... because there's a world of variety in singles out there, so that even if I start and don't have any game, in a numbers game my possibilities are still strictly endless. Or at least more beautiful women than I, as just one man, could possibly know what to do with. However, no amount of platitudes will magically erase my irrational fears keeping me from trying. After all, its hard to walk upto Sally and say something bold.

So, like you could explain away a child's fears, you give me a placebo in the form of giving me an explanation, one that only has to do the bare minimum of fitting into place on the problem. Maybe some thing about the natures or whatever(think calvin and hobbs). It just has to convince me why I'm in control. And why I shouldn't be afraid.

Now, personally I feel, without some semblance of game, my return on effort is going to be pretty low. But we're going to assume RP as a theory is mostly rubbish. And just say... as a result of experience, it comes to the point where I develop solid game on my own. I learn when to push, and escalate. I learn what to say, and how to say it. All organically. Like any well-adjusted BP guy. But in my head... I've become my alfalfala.

By this point, as an individual, I learn, no matter where the market goes, no matter how unkind it is, as long as I look at it logically for myself(and not all men like some retarded MRA), and am willing to work for it, the world is my oyster. Objectively, the "betas" who never try... don't you think they're missing out?

So, just by convincing me to recognize SMV and honestly work on getting some(aka. the great RP innovations. lift and be confident), and just go out the door... RP has changed my life. It may have taken full advantage of my emotions like buried pain, shame, hatred, bitterness... but it worked! ^{lemmetellmymom}

Now a lot of people, will argue, "you idiot, all you're getting is cheap meaningless sex. And with your shitty game, its probably costing you so much time, money and attention in dating and stuff that its not worth it!" Which is true. As a guy, I may be living the life in my head, but I'm still relatively a chump. (For reference, one of my most cringeworthy memories starting, is I spent over ~1400 usd of my money a month on a girl at one point.)

Now let me contrast this with being a woman. It is a fact that a given woman also has a world of millions of singles out there, and with social media and the internet, access to more of them than ever. But for them... its even more shameful to fail.(all haters, see edit)

To illustrate. Here you have the result of a quick google. Exhibit A. These are a sample of women who have been arrested for prostitution in a US locality. Basically, these woman have proven ability to sell sex.

http://archive.wtsp.com/slideshows/2011/gallery.aspx?slideshowname=Prostitution-Arrests

If the women in that series of prostitute mugshots can.... If the lot of rambunctious idiots and former(and possibly current) losers on RP can... then the chicks who fail to get partners are just idiots... Because she has an advantage that we never did.* There is a bit of truth in the constant and cliché assertion that a reasonable looking woman could almost always get laid. The only limitation is her standards(calm down, I'm not going to say drop standards). Thats not even half the extent of her advantage(have you seen my edit yet?)

So, I could guarrantee you, if you put a "hopeless betty" woman in front of me, I could teach her to have the life of her dreams(not hyperbole, bear with me), if she's willing to work for it. I've coached guys and delivered results. With a girl, I imagine the job to be all that easier.

Now, you might say, with that mugshot series, "Legion, there's a fucking difference between romantic partners, (what you likely want) and being a whore!" Mhm. You're right. You could extend that to being sleezy with high-value men too. But that difference is there... for the time being.

Look at RPers. They are looking to be whores too. i.e. Get sex and get paid for it, via time, attention and favours.

But there's a key distinction. I mean, besides, that RPers would actually have to work for it.

I'm talking about Imagination. Basically, this is the difference between how you and I would see and approach the problem. Imagination. I can use a wrench as a hammer in the right circumstances. While you see a tool that doesn't perfectly fit the problem in all cases, so you won't use it. You can use one thing, as an "in" towards another. (And I guarrantee you, you already do. I'm just telling you how to do it better.)

Take a variant of the approach RP does. Improve your SMV(i.e. if you want the market's benefits, play to whatever the fuck the market demands. no SJW bullshit). And employ your breakneck gatekeeper of sex advantage toooo.... **approach. Take your destiny in your own hands.

That key area women limit themselves. If you understand the numbers game, you are sitting on a gold mine. As the gatekeeper of sex, even your cold approaches, while being average, would be bunker-busters compared to my fireworks. There are videos on youtube where moderately so-so women approach, and straight up ask someone for sex. and get 100% and 90%(lowest) success rates on just *asking for sex outright.* While moderate to even attractive men got like 0-1% rates(and even those as possibilities of sex after dates) on 100 and 200 tries.

With those stats, I would kill to be a woman. You can argue all day that it happens women "becaause are expected to be... yadda yadda yadda", but then sincerely excuse me... but you're a fucking idiot. The market is holding competition back to the point where women for fear of perception would deny themselves a world of opportunities...(and if you really care about perception, just learn to be subtle without also limiting yourself), and you're still riled up about causes. Fuck all of that for a moment. Think of your own success, and how you can take advantage of knowing all the different rules of the game, as it is. Don't try to fight the game, play it for maximum profit.

Its amazing how much people are limited by perceived disadvantages. Fuck the world. Sexual strategy is amoral. Men love being approached. You wouldn't find more than like a 5%-ish minority saying would find it'd be a turnoff(fuck em anyway). I say most men have it rare enough that they won't even want to be rude to sally landwhale when she does it and you can take advantage of that market fact. Though... you know... they might also be so inexperienced that it'd still go terribly awkward and rejection would be obvious. The trick, of course, is that men love, Love, LOVE to be approached, as long as she's attractive. Which you have to be(tough luck). You have to work on it. Just enough to be 6. More for more ease. Past that, the lies the market feeds you are easy problems... ignore them. Learn to not care about rejection(RP does a good job on instructing that, as shown by our placebo above, if you ask nicely, i'll concoct an interesting bedtime story about men for you too).

EDIT: Btw, this is the comment chain if you want it, and if you're not convinced that gatekeeper of sex advantage exists for the majority of women, than this link also includes my best shot at convincing you. If you're not convinced, I give up, downvote and move on.

this has always bothered me because trp always devolves into sort of a gender war/pity party rather than the sexual strategy subreddit that is supposed to be.

Read this link: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/29il6q/the_scorpion_and_the_frog/

lev21pirate · 2014-09-09T03:01:57+00:00

it is still a lot more preferable to be male than female.

this might be of some interest

Bakerofpie · 2014-09-09T13:21:16+00:00

I'm really not sure why you would rather be a man. Care to elaborate? I would hate to be a man, though admittedly not entirely for reasons of assumed privilege. I very much identify as female, in the most stereotypical sense, and certainly acknowledge that would change my perspective. However, the issues I face as a result of being born female in the United States are pretty minimal to me in comparison to the benefits.

Most men are really nice to me. Any time I have ever had car problems it only takes about ten minutes for a man to pull over to help me. If I'm having trouble carrying something, if a man is around he is almost certain to help me. I never have to approach anyone to date, and even though I always come prepared to pay for my own meal I rarely was allowed to when dating.

There is limited social stigma for whatever lifestyle I choose. I would like to mostly stay at home with my children, which has become a bit frowned upon, but there's nothing stopping me from getting a career in whatever field I choose.

If I wanted to I could live a life of sitting on my ass and a relationship entirely on my own terms as long as I put out once a month, or if I have a guy's kids I might not even have to do that anymore to keep him around and paying my bills. I'm not saying that's how any relationship works and the doomsday view on marriage is an eye roller for me, but I could find that more easily than a man could were I so inclined.

As a woman I have all the options afforded to me I could possibly want. From my perspective and what I've seen in my own country I have far more social freedom than any man I know. This is all coming from someone who has been sexually assaulted on more than one occasion. I have seen the dark side of men, GOOD LORD have I seen it. But that is a minority of men. At any given time I can assume a man is going to be generally kind to me.

CallMeMrBadGuy · 2014-09-09T11:54:43+00:00

Sheesh. Hasnt this question been asked 50 million times? The actual hate is primarily in the anger phase. It's understandable especially for guys who thought they were doing everything right and believed everything they were sold. Eventually one should move past it and settle that they cant change anything and instead work on exploiting the landscape to their benefit.

Now the false hate that blue pillers dwell on about is that TRP in general has no respect for modern feminism and no respect for putting pussy on the pedestal. Whereas the rest of reddit likes to pretend that women are halo-having creatures of perfection that can do no wrong. TRP highlights all of the imperfections and truth that it sounds too mean to the BP. Boo-freaking-hoo.

do they really think females are the more privileged sex? obviously attractive gals (and attractive guys) find life a lot more enjoyable than your average chum, but this is a small fraction of the population.

Lol.

niczar · 2014-09-09T12:20:02+00:00

I don't see any hate. At worst, contempt.

Look at this post: http://np.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2fu0tz/how_not_to_behave_an_afc_takes_out_his/

Does it hate women? No, the "hate" if you can call it that is directed towards the chump for being clueless and hateful himself.

asd1100 · 2014-09-09T07:59:59+00:00

but are guys normally this traumatized by their lack of success with women?

It's society, the calss argument is very simplistic. Slaves hated slavery more than the slave masters in general.

im just wondering where all this bitterness for half of the world's population is coming from.

society sets you up for a life of disapoinment and lonelyness., You'll be a little grumpy once you realises that as a 10 year old you had more game than as a highschooler.

i would have chosen to be born as a male.

yes, working for a living is so wonderfull, having to have a personality and whit to get sex is the real priviledge.

I am not arguing that being a woman hasn't it's disadvantages, lets just say that when it comes to sex and relationships, you're path is less bumpy.

The average betty can become a 7 or 8 within hours just by makeup and clothes. If she works out she can be an 8 in a couple of years. But she doesn't even need to do that, if she just wants the casual lay with a random average not so attractive guy. For that she just needs to go out and say Hi. and not be a bitch for the rest of the night.

Men need to work a lot, and even after the become adonisese, they need personality which takes years to shape into something decent, and then they need brains, a job, a house and a decent car to break into that top 20% of being attractive to another attractive human being. Even to get sex with the average looking girl he needs at least one polished quality, which any one of them takes years to finish off.

it is still a lot more preferable to be male than female.

I agree, but why do you think that?

why is there so much hate in trp?

Comments

But they don't.

Title	why is there so much hate in trp?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	13
Comments	219
Date	September 9, 2014 2:04 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2fv9fl/why_is_there_so_much_hate_in_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-is-there-so-much-hate-in-trp.284921 https://theredarchive.com/post/284921