What is "victim blaming"?

MissPearl · 2014-03-05T16:44:11+00:00

Victim blaming is the elaborate mental dance people do, not just in a falsely benevolent attempt to give "better luck next time!" advice but also to mitigate the effects on the victim for their own emotional comfort, either to assure themselves it can't happen to them or to make whatever it was not such a big deal.

So let's say you have a guy in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship- practically speaking this might happen to anyone. But he might get told that if he were "more of a man" she wouldn't, or that all women are crazy and it's his job to parent her so she won't. Or that he should be less provoking and next time he won't get assaulted. (It takes two people to have an argument, etc...)

All these move the responsibility for the assault on or crime committed towards the victim. They generally don't give constructive advice that solves the problem, but they allow the advice giver to feel helpful and possibly less bad that something awful took place.

Victim blaming also tends to promote life restricting and arbitrary "safety measures"- for example saying that covering the body or hiding ones presence to whatever your culture decrees as modest or hidden helps- but this can go as far as restricting that person's open participation in public life- like decreeing that if you get violently beaten by a gang of men for being a homosexual you just should have wedged yourself deeper into the closet, or that if you don't want someone to send you a series of increasingly unhinged messages about how they are going to murder and sexually assault you in no particular order you simply should not have a differing opinion (or for that matter an opinion at all) online.

This is not the same as constructive problem solving- the preciously mentioned guy experiencing an abusive relationship probably would do a lot better if a couple of friends helped him understand the abuser was not normal and either got her arrested and/or helped him escape (say, showing up in a group and helping him move including his fish tank and then being with him so the ex can't intimidate or further harm him, while encouraging him to get therapy to deal with the probable damage). This is the difference between practical useful help and useless victim blaming.

GaiusScaevolus · 2014-03-05T18:25:34+00:00

The problem whenever sexual assault is discussed is that it is (understandably) a very emotionally charged issue. I would venture a guess that, for both men and women, it is the most emotional fraught crime, more than theft, assault, or even murder.

So let's use a different situation to illustrate this question.

You want to cross the road. Do you look both ways? Of course you do, we're taught from an early age to look before you cross the road to avoid getting hit by a car. Is this victim blaming? A driver is supposed to be in control of his vehicle at all times, so if a car hits a pedestrian it's completely the driver's fault, from a legal perspective. So why do we teach people to look both ways before they cross?

Because we recognize that sometimes driver's aren't following the rules, and that, though it is the driver's fault, it's still the pedestrian that will be injured or killed if they're hit. So we teach our people, from a young age, to be cautious and take precautions to avoid harm.

Now, let's apply this to rape. Rape itself is 100% the rapists fault, and it's a very serious crime. But we recognize that some still won't obey that law, so it's reasonable to teach people to take precautions and protect themselves, like mind your surroundings and social cues. It's not victim blaming, it's advising awareness and agency.

caxica · 2014-03-05T17:52:26+00:00

I mean if a guy rapes a drunk girl then yeah he's certainly to blame and should be prosecuted, but I don't think it's "victim blaming" to say to that girl "hey dummy, what the fuck were you thinking putting yourself in that situation?" We can punish criminals and still discourage behaviors that increase the likelihood of being victimized. It's not an either/or thing although feminists pretend it is.

roe_ · 2014-03-05T16:23:43+00:00

Sure - the basic problem is how do we distribute agency?

It seems to me (some) feminists believe having rallies, holding signs, taking tumblr pictures of themselves with signs, strengthening institutions (sometimes to the extent of violating due process) to punish men, &etc. will eventually create a world where a woman can get blind, falling down drunk wherever she wants and still be safe.

It's not that the goal of creating such a world is bad or wrong - it's just the actions I listed will probably not bring that world into being, and have much more dire (unintended) consequences. If you look at recent things the our institutions have done in the name of preventing sexual assault (sex offender registries, "Dear Colleague" letter) most of these things don't seem that effective at preventing sexual assault, but have all kinds of negative unintended consequences.

Strengthening the power of institutions is a way of shifting agency for what happens to you away from yourself. "Something bigger then me will protect me."

I'm of the opinion people should shift agency back to themselves for what happens to them, and simply act in a way that will reduce the probability that bad things will happen to them as responsible, accountable adults. This is just a basic, low-level principle for me. I respect women enough to hold them to this standard - so I think women are accountable for taking actions to keep themselves safe, and exercise clear communication during short-term sexual encounters, or own their part of the responsibility where something happened that they are uncomfortable with after the fact. I equally hold men accountable to respect a woman's clearly communicated boundaries during these encounters.

Bad things could still happen to you no matter how you deal with your problems - agentic or not - because of bad luck. That's life.

shitlordlucy · 2014-03-05T21:06:41+00:00

Well, according to normal, reasonable people, victim-blaming is saying that a person who was raped deserved it or caused it.

I don't think it's victim blaming to say that a rape victim probably shouldn't have done , __ and ___, but that you still feel really sorry for what happened and there's no excuse. Feminists like to say that drinking too much is unrelated to rape and yet they also like to say having sex with any intoxicated woman IS rape. So which one is it? Obviously if a woman drinks herself into a stupor she is more likely to get raped, just by definition.

You should never blame someone for getting raped (especially not an individual) but vaguely saying that binge drinking leads to sexual assault is not at all victim blaming; that's just being sensible.

I say this as a woman who was assaulted (but not raped, no penetrative sex or anything) while drunk, by the way.

sh1v · 2014-03-05T17:24:01+00:00

Getting into this situation is the woman's fault.

Even this is going too far for most people I've seen bandying about the phrase 'victim blaming.' Anything negative or critical at all directed towards the victim provokes a storm of "HOW DARE YOU BLAME THE VICTIM!"

I grew up in a rough area and had people attempt to rob me several times, once at gunpoint. People constantly walking up and trying to get money out of me, start an altercation, or get over on me in whatever way. Just for being in the wrong place and (sorry to say it) being not-black in a thoroughly black neighborhood. Fortunately I was able to pull myself out of that place and move into a better area. Still every time I step outside my front door, I have a certain degree of wariness, I don't like strange people near me or especially my family, I don't like being approached by people I don't know, etc.

Now imagine I were to ignore all the advice and help of my friends, family, police officers, and everyone else sensible, and decide to get helplessly drunk in the middle of the goddamn city, at night, on a saturday. Basically sending off a giant 'fuck you' to everyone who ever cared about me. I mean, imagine I die... who the hell is supposed to support my loved ones?

But it's like you can't even try to warn people nowadays because women have this victim-blame shield up that's supposed to allow them to do whatever they want, wherever they want, however they want, and if you try to say "hey maybe try and be a lil safer about that" you're some slut shaming misogynist pig contributing to rape culture.

trabant00 · 2014-03-05T16:19:25+00:00

Huge difference between "she carries all/part of the blame because she was drunk and dressed provocatively" victim blaming and "she could have done more to protect herself, she and others should learn from that mistake" which is wrongly portrayed as victim blaming. Now a days you can't advise people to be careful as you'll get jumped by angry groups of feminists and such.

whatsazipper · 2014-03-05T19:58:31+00:00

Risk mitigation.

We can't control the other people, but we can reduce our chances of it occurring by reducing our vulnerability and presence in dangerous situations.

None of us goes around blaming victims. That's a strawman and an aggravating one at that.

Tyrien · 2014-03-06T03:26:50+00:00

IMO victim blaming means blaming the victim for what the perpetrator did.

Why is that an IMO, or even a question up for debate?

It's a self describing word.

Archwinger · 2014-03-05T21:51:03+00:00

"Victim blaming" is an argument technique. Not a cultural/societal man-woman thing.

The way it works is that you use this technique to label people whose viewpoints you don't like as cruel. i.e., "She was raped! Hasn't she been through enough?! How dare you blame HER for what some MAN did to her! You're victim-blaming!"

It doesn't matter if what the victim-blamer said is perfectly logical, like "While nobody contests that a woman has the right to be alone alone in a dark alleyway at 3:AM on a Saturday in the bad part of town, that's an awfully dangerous thing to do" or "Going home, drunk off your butt, with a complete stranger, only intending to maybe stay at his house for a few more drinks and make out for a few hours, seems like a very risky thing to do."

Logic doesn't matter. If somebody is a victim, and a person expresses a view that even the slightest deviation from the most irresponsible behavior in the universe would have prevented the victim's negative experience, that person is EVIL! How dare he BLAME the VICTIM when someone else did the crime!

When you can paint the person expressing a viewpoint as a cruel, crime-supporting, evil person, it saves you the trouble of having to address any underlying facts or thoughts that were expressed. It's an argument technique. Nothing more.

myfriendscantknow · 2014-03-05T22:28:39+00:00

Red pillers ITT are acting like victim blaming is a made up construct feminism just pulled out of its ass. The truth is that usually, victim blaming refers to the police and legal system. This was such a problem that laws were enacted to protect rape victims from this treatment. All one has to do to see victim blaming in the extreme is look at India's treatment of rape victims, but our society is certainly not perfect in this regard either.

Honestly, the red pillers here saying that victim blaming is just feminist bitching are astoundingly ignorant.

whatsazipper · 2014-03-06T06:17:07+00:00

A thought-terminating cliche.

fasterfind · 2014-03-06T08:00:01+00:00

You are correct. Although victim blaming goes deeper than that. Imagine that a girl goes to a bar, tries to walk home, and is raped. The lawyer might say she dressed too sexy, it's her fault. Maybe she wore pants that would be hard to remove, so it's her fault for not fighting hard enough.

You keep going, finding excuses for why everything is her fault, then the rapist walks free. that is victim blaming, and it's very real. It happens all the time. A bank got robbed, it should have had a better vault, or a better guard. They were just asking for it, set the perp free.

TRPACC · 2014-03-06T10:51:42+00:00

You will likely feel like blaming the victim. Why?

Study show that the entourage often blame the victims for what has happened. In fact, it seems that blaming the other is a protective function leading people to believe that the world is a safe a predictable place. To attribute the traumatic event to randomness or to society would cause too much insecurity, as it would mean that it could also happen to you. This can lead you to unconsciously deduct that it is rather the individual’s personality traits or his behaviours that are responsible for the trauma, and this can explain your likeliness to blame the victim.

You could also blame the individual for having or for not having done this or that in order to avoid the event. However, it is not fare to judge the actions of individual at the time of the event, because you are doing so with some information that the individual did not have at the time of these actions. Another factor to take into account is your actual emotional state, which is very different from the emotional state of the individual at the very moment he was living the event. Even if you know some details about the traumatic event, you did not experience it, you did not feel the intensity and the range of emotions. It is thus not fare to minimize the event and criticize the actions of the victim. It is important to keep in mind that the individual did what he could do in these circumstances.

It is very well possible that at one point you could blame the victim for the post-traumatic symptoms that also affect your daily life. It is not easy to see someone you love suffer. His suffering could make you feel helpless and even guilty, not knowing how to help him. His state could also make you feel angry. You might advise him, tell him what to do and feel like he is not making enough efforts to come out of this state. So, even with the best feelings at heart and the best of intentions, it is easy to understand how you could come to the point of blaming the victim. http://www.osiss.ca/docs/RecoveringfromaTrauma_EN.pdf

lbspredh · 2014-03-07T13:31:24+00:00

a really good excuse for people to continue with risky bahavior patterns and expect the world to pour an unreasonable amount of rescources and time into making such dangers impossible on the basis that they have every right to walk around drunk as a skunk and alone in the middle of the night in really dangerous places even though the most simple solution is for people to take every precaution they reasonably can to not be vulnerable like that.

Alpha100f · 2014-05-30T12:27:18+00:00

I have another question. Why when it's death - it is called Darwin Award and is a funny and ok thing, but when it's sexual intercourse, it is called "Victim blaming" and is a bad thing?

robesta · 2014-03-05T16:22:11+00:00

The flip side is the guy who consensually fucks a girl who's white boy wasted. He's putting himself in a position to be a victim if the girl decides in hindsight she has a boyfriend and was "raped."

[deleted] · 2014-03-05T18:09:13+00:00

"Victim blaming" is the accurate assessment of the contributory fault of the alleged "victim" in a complex human interaction

trabant00 · 2014-03-05T16:12:14+00:00

She obviously doesn't carry the majority of the blame in that case, but she is not completely innocent either. After recovering from that assault she can learn from her mistakes or try to project all of the blame on the attacker. I'd recommend the former.

Title	What is "victim blaming"?
Author	purplepil
Upvotes	14
Comments	205
Date	March 5, 2014 3:42 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1zmrgn/what_is_victim_blaming/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-victim-blaming.286112 https://theredarchive.com/post/286112

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