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Red pilled 3 months ago. Impending separation. Need some help.

Reddit View
January 2, 2020

First post here. I need some help...

I'm 43. Together 16 years, married 7. 3 awesome kids. Sex has been bad the entire time. She had childhood abuse and I always chalked it up to that (deep kissing off limits from the start, morning sex a NO, major hesitations on anything submissive). I dealt with it because she is STUPID HOT and figured she would just take a long time to open up.

However I had SHIT for frame, failed ALL HER TESTS (obviously didn't realize they were tests), and gradually became complete world-class bluepill embarrassment every day in almost every way, for years.

I'm successful in most all other areas of my life... 7 figure net worth, 6 pack abs, great career, social status, friends, kickass dad, athlete, etc.

But at home I was a needy, whiny bitch. No emotional maturity. No consistent emotional even-keel. Never took the high road. Little stuff would set me off. Complained about the lack of sex. I blamed her for not logically understanding how important sex is in a marriage. I responded to every test with either nerd-ass logic or feminine over-emotionality. I ignored her when she needed real help (once after a miscarriage). I drank too much. I lived completely within her frame and was a slave to pussy and always petrified of losing my family.

A year and a half ago I hired a coach to work on some work-related stuff. Got into mental discipline. This was transformational. I got sober, built some awareness of emotional intelligence. Began practicing it and applying what I was learning successfully to career and money... then I decided to tackle my relationship.

I come at her hard... "we need to fix this". I offered to go to a workshop, retreat, therapy, guided MDMA, whatever, let's do it all. I said I'm no longer imprisoned by loss aversion (which was true, I let go of my fear of divorce).

She refused workshops or retreats, claimed bad timing (she just finished grad school and was starting new career) and said she doesn't feel safe talking with me. Eventually agreed to do couples therapy. Took 3 months to find one and it was a disaster. Once a week, no real talking between (I'm still acting like a bitch at home). I was hardcore DEER the entire time in the sessions. I basically flat-out blame her for having intimacy issues as a result of abuse she suffered as a child. She shuts down even more, then at a total loss I suggest separation (since nothing else was working - looking back was hoping she'd protest but she didn't).

So we agreed to separate and to start that process by talking with a separation expert who would help us create a co-parenting plan, break it to the kids, etc.

Then I took the red pill.

It started with David Deida's "Way of the Superior Man". POLARITY blew my fucking mind. (Being raised by 4 women, my every-other-weekend dad died at 12, I thought I was supposed to be emotional, vulnerable, heart-on-sleeve, sensitive, reject the "man box", be like women, etc. etc). Kill me. I won't go into my bluepill conditioning because it doesn't matter.

Then I read a bunch of PUA stuff, mainly interested in how people worked with the polarity dynamic.

Then I read The Rational Male... what can I say?

I'm believe I'm through the 5 stages of red pill acceptance. I'm not angry, not depressed, I have accepted it. But I'm a kid with dynamite. I have no skills. Red pill behavior is not automatonic. I've read everything I can get my hands on, but not sure how to practice any of this within the marriage setting, when we are literally hanging by a thread.

I've been relatively cool since I read the book, no over-emotionality. I have pushed back several times on some things that I felt I was getting emasculated on (she didn't know what to make of it, but claimed more lack of safety)

I see her now completely differently now. I see everything completely differently. I understand she operates on context, not content. She lives in how she feels. Her emotional filter is the "truth" to her. I understand I am in control of her attraction. But I have no practice in game.

Our session with the separation therapist is next week. Then this happens...

3 days ago I express some concern about a 3rd party entering the mix and escalating... concern around losing time my kids. We share a hug and tears (reserved on my part), she actually allows me to hold her while she cries. I hold her while she sobs. This was the first moment in a long time where I'm able to legitimately care for her. I'm not trying to solve anything. I don't want anything from her. I can see her as the hurt 7 year old she is deep down. She felt safe and I could tell.

The next day, out of nowhere, she sends me a link to the workshop I asked her to go to over a year ago. It's all about communication and repair. She says "I know this may be frustrating but we have a lot to communicate about and I came across this". She "came across" the exact workshop I asked her to go to over a year ago.

So we have appointments now for a mediator to hammer out a separation agreement (an hour next week), and a workshop to repair our relationship and learn communication (3 day workshop in 3 weeks). I think she's confused and was reacting to my care for her with a step toward repair, under the guise that we'll need this workshop anyway to talk about this kids.

My gut says to decline the mediator meeting until after the workshop. Use the time and the workshop to repair. But I need to learn, I need help. I don't know how to re-estalbish frame. I don't know how to be safe without giving away my power. I don't know how to lead her without being authoritarian.

I don't want to lose my wife, or my family. I am ready for that if that's what's required to be a better man. I am living the worst nightmare I have for my sons, so I'm ready if that's what it takes. But I'd like to save this.

I still do wonder how much of our disaster of a sex life was a result of my blue-pill bitchness, or her past abuse and intimacy issues. I suspect maybe 80/20? Saving us is still a bet that she can relax into her feminine in a way she never has. I don't know what's possible with her sexually even if I never break frame for the rest of my life.

I welcome any feedback, resources, your analysis of what's going on, action plans, etc. You may say I deserve this, that I'm still a bitch. Maybe I do and maybe I am. But whether my marriage ends or not, I'm on the same path you're on... committed to being the best man I can be. We start where we start. I'm thinking about my boys. I want them to see a real man, and a real relationship, and that's going to happen no matter what. I'm Just trying to see if I can make it happen with their mom.

Post Information
Title Red pilled 3 months ago. Impending separation. Need some help.
Author 2112311username
Upvotes 42
Comments 77
Date 02 January 2020 12:27 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
DEERframegamethe red pillthe blue pillPUA-pill

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret42 points43 points  (3 children) | Copy

Why don’t you take a step back? You don’t sound like you want to separate, so don’t do something you are not ready for. General rule of thumb is add a month for each year you have known her to make a full turnaround with MRP. So, in your case about 15 months.

You haven’t had time to even begin applying some of the things you have read here. It is a process for you and for her. Tap the brakes. Who cares if it looks like you pulled a 180? Own it and make a better decision once your head is screwed on straight.

[–]Rock_Granite13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why don’t you take a step back? You don’t sound like you want to separate, so don’t do something you are not ready for.


[–]redwall926 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Who cares if it looks like you pulled a 180?

EGO cares. There is nothing else.

This is HUGE in any area of life. WISNIFG contains this concept. You can change your mind anytime you want.

[–]Onein1024th2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP blaming his wife at counselling means he probably stank of pride for years; he probably still has the faint smell of it. Ironically, what does he have to be proud of? Shit frame and a skinny dad bod.

Big improvement in a short time but OP needs put in work and commit to living a lifestyle of being the masculine role model his sons need.

[–]EasyDaysHardNights15 points16 points  (4 children) | Copy

OK. I could tear this apart but let's take just take one interaction with your wife.

You say

She "came across" the exact workshop I asked her to go to over a year ago.

She says:

"I know this may be frustrating but we have lot to communicate about "

She didn't magically rediscover the workshop you suggested. She's seeing her Daddy Warbucks meal ticket heading for the separation door and is actually saying ..

/engage Womanese Translator:

"You're thinking about dropping the mediator so let's put a backup option on the table which I can drag out for a long time because I can make shit up while I try to figure out how to get you back in line and failing that, I'll line up a branch to swing to and find a way to make you kill the puppy so it's all your fault."

Does any of what I just said matter ... at all? Nope. It's not about your wife. Or your kids.
Or your Dog's Trainer's Roomates', Cousin's, Best Friend's, Maid's, Daughter's Aunt.

STAY OUT of everyone else's head.

This shit is all about YOU home slice and it takes TIME.

You've been together 16 years, married 7 (9 years to get her to commit?)

That means by the general rule of thumb for length of time to Dread your wife, even if you have swallowed the pill 3 months ago (not convinced) and you were building a rock solid Frame (see no evidence) you've got another year of pulling your head out of your ass to go. There's no magic answer that will solve things in the time between your mediator meeting and the communication workshop.

YOU have to change and that takes work. A lot of work. Over time.

You've been reading. Good for you. No mention of the Sidebar ... Read it. Apply it.

You have six pack abs, good for you... what are your lifts?

I see no evidence of STFU. Use it.

Work on you. Figure out what you want ... then pursue it.

She may stay. She may go. The stay plan is the go plan.

[–]2112311username[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks. The 9 years was me avoiding commitment because i didn't see how it benefitted me legally. I finally did it when she pleaded after she got pregnant with our second.

[–]testy680 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Were the first and second planned?

[–]2112311username[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

First was not planned but we we pulled the goalie and were open to it if it happened. Second was planned.

[–]rocknrollchuck0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly what I came here to say.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy


Let me guess, is it Retrouvaille?

The best thing you can do right now is learn about shit tests and comfort tests. This is covered in the sidebar, specifically MMSLP by Athol Kay.

And it doesn't matter how fucking ripped, how hot your woman is, and how much money you have - you ain't shit bro. Drop the ego and you'll make progress.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

She sent you the workshop link so she can tell everyone she made an effort. This is all textbook. She has moved on emotionally and mentally. In the meantime, increase your weak lifts / hint: if you were 10% BF, your bench would be around 275 at your height/weight.

3 months isn’t jack. Get to work on the sidebar and lifting. Work on STFU. You are not ready to end it. So, work on yourself for now.

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep she’s fucking someone else for sure - if she comes back it’s because her branch swing failed.

[–]HeckleandChide3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Guys are hitting on a lot of great points here. One more small piece to add to the pile.

Slow down. If everything you have said is true or at least true-ish, then you have a significant amount at stake. Look at this like a business partnership that is contemplating splitting. You wouldn't split a successful partnership if the main obstacles could soon be remedied. Give it 6 months. Take your time and do your due diligence. There are finances / kids at stake.

That being said, don't be afraid at the same time to come to the conclusion that you need to split. She needs to add value to your mission. Once you get that shit figured out (and mission / TWOTSM is not MRP 101... HoA is spot 100% on regarding that), you will be able to accurately assess what is the best move for you in the short and long term.

Most importantly though right now, slow down and focus on you. It's a grind.

[–]FoxShitNasty832 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's a grind.

Or A + B + UP + UP + DOWN + LEFT = wet panties, mega ripped extra life cheat mode

[–]2wo2wo3hree4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

WHOEVER CARES LESS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP HAS THE POWER IN THE RELATIONSHIP. Your wife subconsciously knows this. You're going to need a polar shift where she cares about you more than you care about her. She’s your #1 and she knows it. That’s never good. Work on making her your #3, 4 or 5.

First 8 paragraphs..

TL;DR - Your woman does not respect you. This “child-abuse” might be a shield to create distance from YOU, not from all men. She’ll go jaw to jaw deep-kissing with a man she respects. She’ll put on a dog collar and kneel in front of a man she respects. Women are whores for hypergamy. She won’t slut-up for a man she likes, but she’ll do all that submissive slutty shit for a man she respects. That all comes down to your SMV, DHV, Frame, being attractive, not being unattractive, etc. You know this from the sidebar/books, right?

“I've read everything I can get my hands on, but not sure how to practice any of this within the marriage setting, when we are literally hanging by a thread.”

-Outcome Independence would be a good start. She was never yours. This post should never be about losing her or about your devotion to her. Strip her of all of that. I think you’re flooding yourself. Relax! Be stoic. You're flailing in the water like a drowning weak prey; all for her... A woman who won’t even passionately kiss you. Yea, you get to hold her while she cries as you FIGHT FOR LOVE but it’s unattractive as fuck. You’re a property. Utilitarian. You’re for comfort. A teddy bear. Women hug teddy bears when they’re sad. However, women don’t fuck their teddy bears.

“Our session with the separation therapist is next week. Then this happens...”

-Cancel that shit! Cancel the retreat too. All that shit caters to the feminized society. It will just fortify her feminine agenda and reinforce your beta behavior to super beta.

You have time. Use it. How?

Stop flailing!!! Demote her from being #1. Outcome independence! Display of Higher Value! Stoicism! STFU! DNGAF! RELAX! Stop scheduling these appointments!

Your wife is now your real world sparring partner to the knowledge you’re picking up. Who cares if you fuck it up? Worse scenario is you find a new wife who will kiss you.

Red Pill is about you! Not about not losing anyone. Find the best version of yourself! Right now! That means un-fucking all that beta out of you.

“ I still do wonder how much of our disaster of a sex life was a result of my blue-pill bitchness, or her past abuse and intimacy issues. I suspect maybe 80/20? Saving us is still a bet that she can relax into her feminine in a way she never has. I don't know what's possible with her sexually even if I never break frame for the rest of my life.”

-WASTE OF FUCKING TIME!!!! Stop dwelling on the past. Fix shit now.

[–]Flesh_Pillow50 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fantastic!. I needed it too.

[–]Perfectinmyeyes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ya good post here

[–]Mordeth9082 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

Three months is NOT enough to go through all the stages after sixteen years.

With separation and such. What do you want to do? Do you want to separate? Do you want to stay and work on yourself and see if you can get the relationship you want with your current wife? Do you like her? Is she even capable at her best of giving you what you want?

We can’t answer these questions for you. This is your decision and your decision alone.

Edit: three months is NOT enough

[–]2112311username[S] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

"Do you like her?" is echoing.

Honestly not that much. I don't dislike her, but we're so different. No shared interests. Always had trouble finding things to do together.

My motivation to stay would be:

  • Kids having both parents
  • Avoiding divorce rape
  • Will have the same issues with next woman until I've fully exercised my BP behaviors anyway
  • Might as well work on myself while we're together
  • I'm still very attracted to her (she's still hot AF)
  • She might be intimate enough to satisfy me if I can get my shit together? Who knows.

I realize I may be rationalizing how I can somehow retain a "perfect blue pill nuclear family facade" as another commenter put it.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't dislike her, but we're so different. No shared interests. Always had trouble finding things to do together.

This is how you define if you like your wife? That's not what /u/Mordeth908 was asking. Do you like your wife as a person? It's a simple question.

[–]Mordeth9082 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Based on this response you are in no way prepared to make this decision. I’ve recently struggled with a decision to separate or not. I’ve recently struggled with a decision to separate or not. But the thought process was completely different than what you laid out here. 1) kids can’t maintain this unhealthy environment, what’s the best path forward to get them in a healthy one? 2) is my wife a net positive or net negative to my mission, happiness, and goals? 3) is my wife the person I want to share the best 30-50 years with?

Continue to do the work, post in OYS, and focus on yourself.

Follow the plan - dread, gain abundance and OI.

Some things to think about on your reasons to stay:

Motivation to stay would be: • Kids having both parents

Kids need to be in a healthy environment and see you at your best. And happy. They’re much more resilient than you’re giving them credit for

• Avoiding divorce rape

How much is your happiness worth?

• Will have the same issues with next woman until I've fully exercised my BP behaviors anyway

You have the best sparring partner now while you unfuck yourself

• I'm still very attracted to her (she's still hot AF

This screams oneitis

• She might be intimate enough to satisfy me if I can get my shit together? Who knows.

Do you even know what this means yet to yourself?

[–]IWantToHelpSometimes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The only reason he married her was because she is hot. He admitted that himself in the first paragraph.

Overlooked all the bullshit red flags.

[–]2112311username[S] -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

I read a book called "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay", it had 34 questions, the answers to which revealed whether it was more likely the right choice to leave or stay. My score was Stay (6), Leave (28).

I read your other post - the comment "she will never be the one I want to grow old with" resonates with me. But I seem to be able to convince myself either way.

Also re: the divorce rape "how much is your happiness worth?". My happiness is inextricably tied to my time with children. I don't really care about the money. My biggest fear is cutting the time I have with my kids. In a way much of my career and financial life is about arranging things so I can increase my time with them.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay

You read a book written by a woman about relationships. Took a quiz written by a woman based about relationships. And believed in it!

I had to look at this book. Did you know the woman who wrote this book also wrote one titled: GOOD PEOPLE HAVE AFFAIRS

When are you going to stop listening to women about relationships? This is redpill 101.

Your hamster is on FIRE dude.

[–]maljo242 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You married the wrong woman. She's hot and you let your dick do your thinking.

[–]wkndatbernardus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The truth hurts.

[–]0io-Tsundere2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just because someone was raped, abused, molested, or otherwise had bad experiences as a child, adolescent, or adult doesn't keep them from being able to fuck like porn stars and enjoy it. If you don't do some sex act with her because of some issue in her past she'll go get it and enjoy it with somebody else who doesn't care about her issues. The perpetrator probably drove a car and lived in a house, and she doesn't have any issues riding in cars or living in houses. I'm not saying she wasn't abused but your not having sex with her due to some issue in her past is just bullshit. Other people can and will do those things with her and she'll enjoy it. Kind of a major failed shit test, right there.

[–]theunconquored1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

When I was new at this stuff, there was a statement that didn't make much sense to me.

That was: "The stay plan is the go plan."

Are you going to stay or are you going to leave? Your actions are the same either way.

Go to the fucking mediator. And the workshop. /u/justpickanyusername makes a good point, not to do something you aren't ready for. Don't leave if you aren't ready to leave. But you also aren't ready to stay if things don't change either, are you?

It took two years AFTER I started acting like a man, stopped DEERing, started passing most tests, and not being a whiny needy bitch to see the real benefits of MRP. You've just started. Maybe you decide to keep her around while you see how things play out as you bury your neediness. You're the one keeping her around, right? You're the prize, right? It doesn't sound like she's much of a prize. Hot is replaceable.

Does she deserve you? That's another question to ask yourself. Could she ever?

I realized pretty early on that my wife, who is no unicorn, was still as good as any other woman was going to be. I decided to make myself better and see if the behaviors I didn't like might change if I changed. For me, I was going to improve, see if I wanted her when I was who I was capable of being, then either stay married or leave and stay single for good. So far, I've decided to stay because she's been worthy of me staying. Turns out she's a lot sweeter and more sexual when she has a real man for a husband, so for now, my life is better with her than it would be without her.

But either way, the stay plan is the go plan. You're improving yourself for yourself. She'll be different when you're different, no doubt. Will that make her worthy of the new you? Will it be worth it for your boys? Only you can decide that.

You've seen a little bit of push/pull in action here. You're pulling away and she lunges after you. Maybe that's like another commenter said...she sees her meal ticket leaving. She captured king beta and he's slipping away, and keeping you is easier than finding another you (which she would...don't doubt that for a second).

One of the commandments of poon was to adhere to the golden rule. Give 2/3 back of what you receive. I have to remind myself of this one all the time. My natural tendency is to give, give, and give some more. I like to take care of the people I love. But doing so to a wife shifts the power balance to her favor. You don't pull back 100%. You pull back just a bit below her own investment level. It'll be shocking to see how little she's invested in you if you commit to investing less than she does.

But you'll have lots of free time for the other steps of dread. You're doing those, aren't you? Sounds like you have the physical and the financial parts down, but do you have hobbies and friends that take you away from her and the house regularly? Do you dress as sharply as you could?

You've programmed her for 15 years to see you a certain way. You are capable of changing quickly. She needs to see consistency before she'll believe it's real. It is real, isn't it? It is just for you, not a giant covert contract, right? Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy? You have, haven't you?

My $0.02, slow your roll a bit. Read the stuff we recommend here. Take dread seriously. Take the commandments of poon seriously. Change yourself and become better, then make your decision.

It is yours to make, after all.

[–]2112311username[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this reply. I told her I would do the mediation appointment AFTER the workshop; which she said she “would not agree to”.

We haven’t corresponded since then but I expect her to withdraw from the workshop if I don’t go to mediation.

I get the idea that “the stay plan is the go plan”, but if she withdraws from the workshop and admits that the only reason she scheduled it was the better our communication about the children (not repair), then I’m in a tough spot - agreeing to separate then reneging.

I can tell her that the only reason separation came into play was because she didn’t want to do any repair work beyond therapy (which is true) but that puts her in a position to admit she doesn’t want to do it for repair’s sake anyway. Then I’m forcing the issue and putting her in a position to tell me she wants out for sure, or fake her way through the workshop. Running the dread steps takes time but this will obviously come to a head much sooner.

[–]Perfectinmyeyes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

People dont change unless they feel like they have too. Either from outside circumstances or from inside ones.

So your wife not kissing you more then just a peck or having sex as much as youd like. Ok sure she had trauma when she was young. But why should she face that trauma? Why should she change? Why should she do things she doesnt want to do or even want to see things differently then she does?

Everyone has a past and some peoples past are more FU more then others BUT ... people dont have to be a product of their environment/circumstances.

Given all of that ... you also cant control someone else ... not really. No matter what you do here and what books you read and things you implement. What you can do is control you, change you, ...

Thats good you want something better in your life (relationship); she isnt the enemy, she isnt the antagonist, ... the antagonist and the enemy are the ones you create.

" But I'd like to save this. " - change the this to you. To be honest who cares if you do mediation or not or the workshop or not. Go to them if you want. This isnt a power struggle this isnt who is right and whom is wrong. Its I want to be a better man then I was yesterday. Live by this and it Doesnt matter what your wife does nor whats going on with mediation/workshop.

I know its hard not to get wrapped up in whats around you. We make judgements on whats around us and ourselves.

But let it go.

[–]rotkohlblaukraut1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

> I still do wonder how much of our disaster of a sex life was a result of my blue-pill bitchness, or her past abuse and intimacy issues

Wondering about all this shit in the past is ultimately of limited use. You examine it to learn what not to do again, not to ruminate on it. For a therapist, maybe to suggest a direction, but that's about it.

> My gut says to decline the mediator meeting until after the workshop.

There's no right or wrong, you need to figure out what you want and then do what is in your power to make that happen. Without a clear sense of what you want, action will just properl you to another random location in your life.

> She "came across" the exact workshop I asked her to go to over a year ago.

There's a time and a place for communication. When you're full of rage, or re-evaluating the last twenty years of your life from the ground up, or under the guidance of a bluepilled therapist, communication may not be your friend. Hence the STFU mantra. But once you get your head on straight, have a vision, and have the ability to make decisions based on your own boundaries and frame, nothing wrong with communicating.

I get the sense that if you decide you want it, there may be room to save your relationsip. But that's not the main goal - you need to work at deciding what you want, how to express yourself like a man, how to lose the whiny bitch side of your personality. No need to rush into either a separation or a couples communication therapy lifestyle unless that's what you want to do and it lines up with your vision.

[–]Flesh_Pillow50 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

How do you stop rumination?

[–]rotkohlblaukraut1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you are prone to ruminate, you probably have beliefs that say that's a good thing. Maybe you believe it's cathartic, maybe you enjoy the rush of anger you feel as you revisit the feeling of being wronged, maybe you believe that somehow keeping the wounds fresh allows you to justify punishing her now, lots of possibilities along those lines. You want to re-evaluate those beliefs and realize why they're not letting you move forward. And you want to train yourself to catch yourself ruminating, becoming aware of when you're doing it, so you can bring to mind the old and new beliefs, contrasting them, and develop the habit of seeing rumination as a dead end. Or if it's really bad, maybe see a therapist.

[–]Flesh_Pillow50 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you so much!

[–]SailorAground1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP, separation is not permanent or final or even legally binding (in some States). Your plan seems to be working so keep focusing on you and then see if she comes running back.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Faggot you have been here 3 months you haven’t swallowed shit.

Let me guess - she initiated the separation? If you had half a brain you would realize she wanted it to go do all the dirty nasty things you wanted to do with her with another dude. She did it and couldn’t lock him down and she’s going to rope you back in.

This one paragraph tells me everything I need to know about you and how not red pill you are:

I don't want to lose my wife, or my family. I am ready for that if that's what's required to be a better man. I am living the worst nightmare I have for my sons, so I'm ready if that's what it takes. But I'd like to save this.

You have already lost faggot.

[–]2112311username[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

No I initiated the separation idea after nothing else was working.

Not sure how that paragraph means “I’m not red pilled”, or what “you’ve already lost” is intended for. She’s not trying to “rope me in”. She’s emotionally gone already.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You care more about a made up not real thing and a woman who doesn’t give a fuck about you than you do about yourself.

Bang up job on the separation btw because if she wasn’t already she surely is now fucking someone else.

[–]jacksarmy0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

3 days ago I express some concern about a 3rd party entering the mix and escalating.

Is this another guy she is seeing?

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No I think he means the therapist but he doesn’t realize there is actually another dude in the picture he just doesn’t know it.

[–]2112311username[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No, I mean the therapist/mediator. They tend to escalate quickly to custody and money discussions.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You've got all that money, I guess you have a private cash stash too, a-go-to crash pad /office if she goes crazy nuclear on your ass. And you've got some chicks that would be eager to get with you lined up for yourself.


[–]i-am-the-prize0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

the most important part you've done:

" I said I'm no longer imprisoned by loss aversion (which was true, I let go of my fear of divorce) "

this frees you to be honest and put yourself first, good job. welcome to Outcome Independence and NGAF attitude.

I would LEAD. Say to her: "I will be delaying next week's separation consultant meeting until after we've had time to process the communication workshop content which is 3 weeks from now at least" Dont' actually offer a date for the reschedule, then STFU and wait for her to reply. If the loving embrace was real, and her 'finding' the seminar that you suggested a year ago not a red herring to confuse you, then she will appreciate you taking the initiative and LEADING. Does this put you at risk of rejection? yup, welcome to being a man.

(dont' rush things, otherwise: like said by others a month of time for every year together is a safe yardstick.)

and yes, the sex and other home problems were b/c you were BP and lacked Frame. As i've written about, Identifying and Passing Shittests and developing my Frame to be the dominant one, while maintaining an OI/NGAF attitude (thanks to truly not having loss aversion) have made a drastic difference in both MY quality of life and OUR quality of relationship. (she once again at NYE reflected on the year and said it's the happiest of our marriage and her family saw how we interacted at the gatherings and the women would separately come up to her saying they were in awe (some jealous) in how she looked at me and how much we smiled together.)

Again, I didn't do it for her, I did it for me, but when done right, others will want to be with you because you become the MF prize.

Congrats on finding the path, now get to work.

[–]2112311username[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Thank you. I’m going to follow this suggestion re: the separation consultant. Reflecting on it, I believe she scheduled the retreat out of guilt, and to be able to say she tried everything. I think she’s moved on completely, either already cheating or going to. Would you still advise same course of action? Skip the mediation, do the retreat, STFU, and work the plan?

One scenario is she backs out of the retreat if I back out of the separation consultant.

[–]i-am-the-prize0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Reflecting on it, I believe she scheduled the retreat out of guilt

There is an expression on here, called "Stay out of her head". You're new, but it's one of the nuggets that is deeper than it seems at first. Remember it.

As i said, if the hug/her releasing emotion and trusting you via embrace were real and the seminar wasn't a red herring, she will welcome the Leadership in you postponing the first consultant, until later. And I'm not in her head, just trying to get you to see it's ok to try since you obviously, in an ideal situ, would rather be married to a version of her where here inside beauty matched the outside (relationship inertia aside).

Give it a shot, remember, REGRET IS WORSE THAN REJECTION.

Give it a shot because you want to, not because of what she may or may not be thinking. Take a chance, if it fails, no biggie, you've already realized you're ready to walk.

[–]2112311username[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

She asked me to confirm the appointment with the separation consultant, and I gave her that response. “I want to postpone until after the workshop”. She said “I can’t agree to that, it’s important we hammer out logistics”.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you don't want to go to the appointment, tell her that.

She can't make you.

It's likely she's fucking some beta-billy orbiter giving her comfort through your Rambo episode at this point with that reply.

[–]i-am-the-prize0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

ok. not trying to nitpick but telling her what you want isn't leading. it's asking for permission/approval to agree to what you want.

anyways, HoA already replied with a possible scenario. (or she has one in mind)

it may be too late, so just focus on you and know that if this is really her, she's not "LTR material" for you, and you need to get your life in order and when you want/are ready, you can get someone healthy without her type of baggage.

[–]2112311username[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I actually said “I’m going to delay the appt” but yeah.

I think this is too late.

[–]i-am-the-prize1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think this is too late.

remember, you're not hers, it is (was) just her turn. (my take on the usual: she's not yours its just your turn).

Become the Prize, and go have the best life possible. Be glad you found this place when you did. No sense in crying over spilt milk, what could have been, and other nonsense. You have a toolbox now, at your feet. Pick up the tools, learn to use them, improve yourself (for yourself, not for some stupid revenge fantasy) and go find happiness and validation from within.

Become the best version of yourself, become a high value male and the women follow. Pussy is not the goal, just a byproduct of being a solid, integrated man. Read the sidebar books like breathing air.

[–]OptimusRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"You have the right to change your mind"

Tell her you don't want to separate and are willing to put in the work. Then stop talking and start leading. Find the right balance between alpha and beta. You got this man. Good luck to you.

[–]Onein1024th0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't want to lose my wife

That is up to her if she gets on board with the new you. But how does she know its not just a passing phase? I wouldn't do an about face on separation; but rather "temporarily hold off" just to keep it on the table.

Read the 12 Steps of Dread post by BluePillProfessor (his book is good too), you want to take your time on this; this monumental change in who you are will take awhile to set in with your wife.

It will also take awhile to set in with you. Getting better at passing shit tests. Identifying comfort tests. Hitting the gym. Getting you physique, style, and social life where they need to be. Owning your shit. Applying what you've learned. Gaming your wife.

Don't go Rambo on this

[–]dilberryhoundog0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I guarantee, if Super Chad and her had a hook up anytime over the last 10 years, all her “intimacy” problems would instantly dissolve.

The problem is you, not her. Mothers don’t give the cold hard truth to their children, even their adult male children. She let you down gently proclaiming it to be her failure not yours.

[–]wkndatbernardus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You reek of oneitis. Work on that and the whole situation will take a turn for the better.

You mention how hot she is but, if she treats you like shit and doesn't bang you on the regs, what good is that beauty? Why do you put up with her disrespect? It's probably because her beauty validates something in you. This is the crux of the matter and the reason why you guys have a dysfunctional relationship.

Your situation reminds me of that part in the Odyssey when their ship sails past the island of the Sirens. Odysseus has to be tied to the mast because their song is so seductive but will lead to destruction and death if any man heads the call. Likewise, you need to restrain yourself so your judgment isn't clouded by your oneitis and you continue forward in the direction of your mission.

[–]Flesh_Pillow50 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

3 more years to permanent alimony. I'd start secretly meeting with the best lawyers you can afford. Proven track records. You need the safest out.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are just going to have to fix this on your own, with you new found information.

She has been waiting for you to step up like a masculine man, that you are supposed to be. So, since you won’t, she possibly can’t fuck weakness, and instead comes up with every fucking excuse in the book.

I have been in LTR’s with chicks that want to fuck. (And, they had traumatic pasts) they make it a priority to do so.

I have never even come close to being in an LTR where deep kissing is not allowed.

You need to calm down and stop playing the victim in your own life. It baffles me you want to go to a workshop when you need to set boundaries and work on you.

This separation thing does nothing but feed your pussy ego as to who is right.

You certainly have a long way to go. Frame. Frame. Frame. Frame.

Sidebar. >>

There is a post in MRP. He got raked. He had some success over frame. Everyone missed it. It’s called frame

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are putting yourself into these terrible positions. You are your own greatest liability at this point. How is it that you can be successful in work but not life?

Staying for the kids only trains your kids exactly how to pick the best partner and life. They see EVERYTHING between you and your wife and they are learning.

You married the wrong woman because she was Hot. How’s that working out for you? Why are you trying to make a marriage work with the wrong woman ?

Here is the one question to help you decide if you should you stay married: If nothing changes am for the next 40yrs, is this the woman you want to spend those 40yrs with?

Just answer that question cleanly and cope with your true answer. But you should be meeting w/ a divorce attorney so you can figure out how to mitigate as many financial things as possible before the next 18mos are up. Pay down all your debt and don’t let her get credit cards (since they’ll fall to you anyway) and start finding ways to slowly get Fuck You money off the books.

[–]refman1-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Skip the mediator, go to the workshop.

If that goes well, find some additional things that are along with what seems to help. Avoid planning the separation, once that plan is in place, you might not be able to stop it.

Best of luck to you.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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