Have you ever noticed shows and movies making a female "antagonist" to not be the antagonist and instead to be victim of a bigger male antagonist?

l3m0n3225 · 2021-06-23T06:25:53+00:00

Ok but Charlie's Angels sucked ass. So did Birds Of Prey.

Weak asf plots where the only thing they do is woman good man bad. So on the nose too.

I actually had hope too for Birds of Prey, since I loved the soundtracks. Disappointment.

DelightfulFronds · 2021-06-23T09:22:12+00:00

One of the things I hate the most about idpol is being able to guess pretty much the entire plot based upon the race, gender and religion of the characters.

intactUS_throwaway · 2021-06-23T06:02:35+00:00

Didn't you know? Even in fiction, the man is always the piece of shit.

AG_N · 2021-06-23T08:00:27+00:00

Everytime there is a female protagonist, they make it like that people will sympathize with her and she will look like a badass, where as a male antagonist (not always) will be a fat boss with no character development

Lopsided-Sleep3739 · 2021-06-23T06:31:19+00:00

I haven't paid much attention to it (suppose I should). But aside, I was watching the Stand a few months ago, and was really distracted by Amber Heard being cast in it. Kept taking me out of the story and into her story irl with Depp.

Anyways, her character in the show keeps fucking shit up and then we find out it's Skarsgard's character's fault.

DavidByron2 · 2021-06-23T06:51:34+00:00

Feminism is always about blaming the nearest man.

BornAgainSpecial · 2021-06-23T06:23:03+00:00

Sounds like Seth Rogan wrote and Jar Jar Abrams directed.

TheSurvivor10859 · 2021-06-23T10:10:25+00:00

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EgalitarianFacts · 2021-06-23T16:04:39+00:00

Oh, YES! This is the theme in real life too...here watch:

"Women are strong, independent human beings who can make their own decisions, except if they get drunk, then they can't decide anything and are victims of rape if they regret it later but this doesn't apply to men who're fully in control at all times even while drunk and must take responsibility."

FUCK this shithole CUNTry.

Luchadorgreen · 2021-06-23T11:37:38+00:00

Like how Harley Quinn was just a damaged victim of Joker’s manipulation while the Joker is just irredeemably evil?

androk · 2021-06-23T14:55:28+00:00

Ever seen The Incredibles 2?

Aakashmathur283 · 2021-06-23T16:18:56+00:00

Hahaha, you should see some Indian daily soaps :P women suffering at the hands of other women, bad plots, bad acting, stupid male Characters who add nothing to the show. Although it kind of negates the point since the women antagonists are evil for no apparent reason

Frank_Bianco · 2021-06-23T06:29:45+00:00

Wymmin are, by definition, victims. That's why they need special treatment. Being powerful on their own merit would break the patriarchal narrative.

azazelcrowley · 2021-06-23T09:57:13+00:00

If you didn't find a man to blame for their behavior, their psychology would provoke them to start rationalizing how the behaviour is okay.

You can depict a woman murdering someone and have it ultimately be down to how she's a victim of a man and they can accept that.

If you just depict a woman being a piece of shit and murdering someone, and you keep doing that, their psychology is such that eventually they'll start believing murder is okay.

They don't actually have any moral compass beyond woman = good and man = bad and no amount of depicting bad women will change that because it is a fundamental disorder in them as human beings dude.

If they can blame a man, they will. If they can't, they'll remove blame from women the only other way they can, by making the action unblameworthy.

wanttojoinpcgaming · 2021-06-23T16:27:29+00:00

toy story 4, incredibles 2, wreck it ralph 2. At this point I expect all future pixar movies to be like this. Onward was a fresh surprise that wasn't.

TheAndredal · 2021-06-23T19:00:02+00:00

Yeah, look at Falcon and the Winter Soldier. They made an antifa woman a protagonist because she was a woman

Deifact · 2021-06-23T06:30:36+00:00

Reminds me of how villains are often British in films/videogames

sbp1991 · 2021-06-23T14:32:32+00:00

Doctor Poison from Wonder Woman comes to mind.

Reaper621 · 2021-06-23T15:53:18+00:00

Moana. Te ka was rampaging because of Maui. The line of make chiefs were helpless, and only the female chief could fix things.

ReaperManX15 · 2021-06-23T17:51:41+00:00

Both Wonder Woman movies did this. Dr. poison wasn’t the main antagonist, it was Ares and that Nazi Officer. In the second movie Cheetah, Wonder Woman’s most famous enemy, wasn’t the main antagonist. It was President Trump . . . uh, I mean Maxwell Lord. Way to represent, for comic books most feminist icon.

BeastMcQueen · 2021-06-23T19:07:39+00:00

So true. In fiction, bad women almost always have a back story where a man made them bad. But men are just depicted as bad.

MarkMy_Word · 2021-06-23T19:56:34+00:00

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t this the case for Wonder Woman 2?

urahara64360 · 2021-06-23T10:04:42+00:00

Because from a feminist perspective when it comes to story telling and story interpretation it literally is a "how is this woman a victim". That's their singular goal when reading or telling a story. It's something I learned pretty quickly when I had a literary analysis course in college.

FH-7497 · 2021-06-23T15:05:55+00:00

Incredibles 2 - Screen Slaver - she just evil. No blaming of patriarchy for her actions, she just a typical marvel style thinks she’s right villain.

RockmanXX · 2021-06-23T14:22:05+00:00

This is one of the reasons i love the movie DREDD. Due to the wokness/Femnazism only male heroes are allowed to be complex anti-heroes and women must ALWAYS be victims&innocent, so female characters can't be as morally complex as a Male character.

How can any writer go about writing a female anti-hero or a female villain character when any attempts to add internal&moral flaws to a female character is "Misogney" according to Feminists? In fact, now that i think about it. Feminists are kind of like Female villains, they're nasty, selfish, hateful and power obsessed lol

ImaTigerShark · 2021-06-23T15:54:10+00:00

Son of a bitch. I haven’t seen any if S7 Flash. I’m guessing Eva isn’t the bad guy after all, is she?

MezzaCorux · 2021-06-23T18:24:27+00:00

This is actually a big deal, because it’s influencing pop culture. You get enough movies out there that paint men as bad and oppressive and the general public will start to believe it, at least sub-consciously. It only perpetuates the male oppressor stereotype.

SHINSEGA · 2021-06-23T20:22:36+00:00

One of the biggest problems about Sjw woke writers is they don't know how to write. Their plots make no sense at all and random events come out of nowhere without any build up. Their stories are lacking in build up proper pacing and a pay off that is satisfying. It often feels shoe horned in or out of nowhere as you said.

ButterSlugger · 2021-06-23T22:36:28+00:00

For once, I want a female villain who WASN’T forced by a man but CHOSE to be evil

They preach about strong women but aren’t willing to show a strong female villain who isn’t kissing a man’s ass, villains are some of the most empowered people out there

llama_in_space · 2021-06-27T02:09:30+00:00

far cry new dawn did this. in the end it was all blamed on dad.

TheJoestarDescendant · 2021-06-23T10:13:43+00:00

Well... I guess some fictions are like that... but there ARE fictions that have female as absolute antagonists without downplaying or shifting their blame...

Off the top of my head:

Rising of the Shield Hero (Malty)... and it generated a ton of controversy in the west XP
Rent a Girlfriend (Mami)
Akame ga Kill (Esdeath)

Yea all of them are Japanese I do not consume much western entertainment

retrigger_mania · 2021-06-23T13:20:52+00:00

Loki is heading that way, though I love the show.

To be fair in Thor ragnarok hela was just pure evil.

LastRounder · 2021-06-23T06:50:49+00:00

I do not even know, is it for good or for bad.

From one hand, women shurely deserve their share of being monsters on screen. As anybody else.

From other hand, It is quite amusing and joyfull to see, that men are still in charge and have power, wether it be good or evil deeds.

dtyler86 · 2021-06-23T15:01:09+00:00

Dude… constantly. Cruella? She’s an awful dog killer turner fashionista and tormented but “spunky” person.

This topic gets me so heated. Even at Epcot, they released a sing a long show making Lefou, the implied gay sidekick of Gaston in Beauti and the Beast, a hero matchmaker since Disney can’t be less than super woke these days.

We’re literally living in a time where the only “bad guys” are white straight men. Even in Wonder Woman, whatever the new garbage installment was, any good guy is black, and every bad guy is white. It’s getting so ridiculous

luchorz93 · 2021-06-23T14:35:53+00:00

Oh that happens in Agents of Shield season 1 xD

Duchat · 2021-06-23T15:58:06+00:00

Raya and the last Dragon. First the antagonist is these weird water sucking blobs, but then it's this princess, then her mother, then Raya I think but it's always the blobs. Or something. And then they all work together to win, and there were never any consequences in the end.

Geoffofneir · 2021-06-23T17:59:49+00:00

This happened in Wonder Woman as well. The woman that produced gases specifically to kill people completely forgiven because she was under Aries. Stuff like that is why I never watch new movies.

blackgaff · 2021-06-23T18:22:21+00:00

Your examples sound like lazy writing and just terrible movies. You're absolutely right, this is becoming a trend. It's as annoying a trope as the "I must avenge the death of my wife/daughter/family" action movies.

However, there are plenty of examples of female villains who are simply villains, even in the Disneyverse. Original Cruella was simply evil, no need for a backstory until they invented one decades later. Snow White's Evil Queen, Ursula, Cinderella's Step Mother, Maleficent, Madame Medusa, Yzma, Queen of Hearts, Madam Mim, the Hocus Pocus trio, all come to mind as evil for being evil.

Then you have foes like Oz's Wicked Witch of the West, Black Mamba/O-Ren Ishii (Kill Bill), Lady Macbeth (Macbeth), Nurse Ratched (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest), Borg Queen (Star Trek), Karrigan (StarCraft), Medusa/Hera/Athena/et. al (Greek Mythology), Veruca (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory - though arguably enabled by her father).

Other villains come to mind, but I can't recall if they have a backstory or not: Poison Ivy (DC Comics), Mystique (Marvel), the mom in Tangled, White Witch (Chronicles of Narnia), Shelob (LOTR), Alien’s Queen, The Phoenix (Marvel), and Back Widow (Marvel).

mtg-nerd-alert · 2021-06-23T20:14:55+00:00

I mean. There are most definitely movies that don’t do this, and I think cinema is moving away from this in general. In the recent cruella movie, the villain was just a terrible woman. No male influence, and it was actually a woman that turned cruella nuts.

ClownWorldPlague8 · 2021-06-23T22:08:41+00:00

Karla Homolka IRL

regularcomments · 2021-06-24T02:05:36+00:00

It´s because of that (and other things) I prefer to watch anime instead of Hollywood movies and tv shows. Japanese people aren´t afraid to show a female character being evil because is part of her own nature. Seriously, if someone here likes to watch Japanese media as I do, you can see that the number of bad fathers and mothers in anime is almost equal. Compare that with the huge number of bad fathers in Hollywood movies/tv-shows in contrast with the almost inexistence of bad mothers or at least really evil mothers ( in opposition to the "I´m a terrible mother because a man-made me a horrible person, so I will blame him of all the bad things I make to my children instead of taking responsibility of my actions as the adult I supposed I am").

CallOfReddit · 2021-06-23T10:39:03+00:00

They want to make the antagonist likeable but have no inspiration to make her actually have a good story. I think it's intellectual laziness first and foremost.

poopingisgreat · 2021-06-23T13:02:07+00:00

Been listening to Sherlock Holmes stories lately and the role of women is interesting. Holmes is generally unimpressed by them and they're often dismissed as sweet, simple, fainting innocents - usually. If they're the suspects they always turn out morally justified or innocent because actually a man was behind it and now that she's a victim her crimes get forgiven.

m0mmyneedsabeer · 2021-06-23T14:21:40+00:00

Not the same but it made me think about this. I watch a lot of true crime docs and I noticed that if there's a man and a woman committing a crime, the man is labeled the murderer/criminal/etc and the woman is labeled the accomplice. Even though they were equals in the crime. Sometimes she's even labeled as a victim too

SpaceGecko47 · 2021-06-23T15:09:05+00:00

Yeah it's so sexist. I mean like, are they trying to tell poor women that they can't even become propper villains?? That's so misogynistic, smh

Boss4life12 · 2021-06-23T13:10:11+00:00

You are forgetting the major one. WONDER WOMAN.

JayVJtheVValour · 2021-06-23T09:07:48+00:00

I recall Maze Runner trilogy having a female antagonist but I can’t recall them being a victim.

2021-06-23T11:59:13+00:00

evil doesn't come from a specific gender it comes from the tainting of ones inner well-being, but i wouldn't expect them to understand it

i_yeet_babys · 2021-06-23T13:29:23+00:00

Would that mean zootopia technically did it right

TheLouisvilleRanger · 2021-06-23T13:31:09+00:00

That’s called making a sympathetic villain you bunch of gamers. It’s the trade mark of many great villains.

MopBucketMcJangles · 2021-06-23T16:37:53+00:00

But at the same time we live in a society where there are 4 white guy Chris', all who mostly play protagonists in their respective films. I think it'll be ok.

throwaway50bil · 2021-06-24T06:34:30+00:00

Oh gee. A show that originally had misogynistic undertones was turned into a series of movies that did not have those tones. What a fucking shame that they made it harder for us to fap to it. Darn.

Positive-Guidance-99 · 2021-06-24T05:14:25+00:00

Kind of a stupid observation

Title	Have you ever noticed shows and movies making a female "antagonist" to not be the antagonist and instead to be victim of a bigger male antagonist?
Author	EMPIREVSREBLES
Upvotes	1291
Comments	228
Date	June 23, 2021 5:59 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/o66sns/have_you_ever_noticed_shows_and_movies_making_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/have-you-ever-noticed-shows-and-movies-making-a.825645 https://theredarchive.com/post/825645

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