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This B.S. floating around my Facebook feed...

Gengaar

May 6, 2016
156 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://imgur.com/Rfbyyup
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Post Information
Title This B.S. floating around my Facebook feed...
Author

Gengaar

Upvotes 156
Comments 115
Date May 6, 2016 1:23 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4i2zg0/this_bs_floating_around_my_facebook_feed/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-bs-floating-around-my-facebook-feed.950169
https://theredarchive.com/post/950169
Top posts by Gengaar

"Male violence problem"

214 upvotes
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This gem on my Facebook feed

48 upvotes
May 28, 2016
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More b.s. getting shared on my Facebook feed.

12 upvotes
May 15, 2016
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]Dann01 53 points54 points55 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Notallwomen are gold-diggers but some are. Be cautious of all women brothers

[–]tinytacos12 26 points27 points28 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not all women in teaching positions rape the children they are supposed to care for, but enough do that I'm afraid to have children.

[–]unpicked-username 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Im just so afraid to admit i might be dating a gold digger that Im too afraid to admit it

[–]bettingdog000 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

not all women are prostitutes but they all start out that way from the first date.

what guy has not been walking alone at night and had to keep his head on a pivot.

when we do get into fights it is started or instigated by women. women will run their mouths and expect men to protect them.

[+]WaitingToBeBanned -10 points-9 points-8 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Big difference, that has no repercussions. Like locking your door.

[–]Dann01 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Huh?

[+]WaitingToBeBanned -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Protecting yourself from gold-diggers, there is really no downside. Except maybe for gold-diggers, but fuck them anyway.

Opposed to living in perpetual fear of all men and trying to change the world to accommodate your paranoia, that cannot be good for anyone.

[–]Dann01 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Not sure if this caught your attention, but I was making a satirical juxtaposition of the original post

[–]WaitingToBeBanned -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Kinda, I was pointing out how it is not the best comparison.

[–]eXeHijaKer 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They're both ridiculous points. If you go around in perpetual paranoia of "all men" then YOU have a problem, not society.

[–]WaitingToBeBanned 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are aware that these peoples motto for dealing with shit is "make the personal political", correct?

[–]Scarbane 92 points93 points94 points 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Every girl has refused a drink from someone she doesn't know.

It's sooo hard being a member of the gender that gets free drinks.

[–]washburncrosby 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The best part would be the rebuttal version:

"Not All Women"

[–]AtticusFrenchToast 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I don't know why whoever wrote this thinks she has the authority or omniscience to speak on behalf of me and my many female friends who most definitely wouldn't agree with all these "every girl" statements.

[–]Insanecrackers 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One lady who understands absolutes and is self aware enough to not feed into propaganda.

In the words of Daniel Tosh

  • and for that we thank you.

[–]washburncrosby 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a problem that people have to overcome. Not every woman with a Twitter and an iPad is an all knowing Earth mother...

[–]Mitschu 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

You ever noticed that when a guy calls out "Drinks are on me!" everyguy cheers and pounds the fucker on the back for his generosity?

Meanwhile, "May I buy you a drink?" is apparently threatening.

It must be amazing, being part of the elite class that expressing individual goodwill towards exclusively is the height of oppression.

When one of the big issues you face is the risk of someone being too nice to you, you deserve a fucking cigar and monocle to go with your charmed life.

"Fellow good sir, perchance did you notice the faint scuff on the waitstaff chap's shoes as he considerately removed our outer vestments? I daresay it is obvious he doesn't respect us, let us cavalier forth and form a social movement to stop this blatant bigotry against the tastefully affluent underclass. No more hatred, I say, no more hatred!"

"Simply because the poor lad's shoes were a mite worn? I apologize, but I don't see the -"

"One word, my dear friend. Microaggression! Today, we face substandard service. Tomorrow, we face the gallows, as they are so wont to do! #IndeedAllPeasants!"

"Oh, very good then!"

[–]Swiggy 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It's a little different because the drink usually comes with the expectations that the woman will at least talk to them man. But this is also a result of our culture that expects men to initiate social contact in these situations.

[–]TheDongerNeedsFood 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Its also a little different because the expectation that a man would buy a woman a drink before she'll talk to him was started by women.

[–]Swiggy -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I never heard that, but back in the day before there were a lot of women in the workforce they probably didn't have a lot of money to spend.

I have heard modern day women brag about going out and not having to spend a dime on drinks because guys were buying for them all night.

[–]PurpleViolettron 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

While the bragging may be a bit much, I'm not sure what's exactly wrong about the idea that a woman wouldn't have to pay for a drink because a guy is buying them for her. And joking around about it is common.

[–]Swiggy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't say it was right or wrong. Just an observation that at least some women don't feel that getting drinks paid for by strangers is traumatic, it is even desirable.

[–]garglemesh42 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]Arby01 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

mind if I steal that?

[–]Mitschu 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

By all means, but my curiosity is piqued, I gotta ask... what're ya gonna use it for?

[–]Arby01 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't have a particular idea in mind - but the complaint about having ones drinks purchased for them has come up before.

From the point "When one of the big issues in life... " forward is an absolutely hilarious rejoinder to that complaint. I was just thinking I would keep in 'in my back pocket' so to speak for the next time I run into that issue.

[–]Azothlike 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

" 1.) You don't get to speak for all women. As much as you want to pretend you do.

2.) Women, on average, work significantly less hours than men, take significantly more sick days, and retire significantly sooner. I guess it's totally acceptable for people to refuse to hire you for any serious job, because enough women slack off for you to be a liability. Prejudice against protected classes is fantastic, isn't it, you bigot. "

[–]alongstrangetrip 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not all men but EVERY and ALL women. This is ridiculous.

[–]Canttakethewhyfromme 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So, they are agreeing with us. Not all guys. There are a handful of women stalkers, maybe you should make a counter FB post

[–]bettingdog000 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

stalking is becoming common place for women. from online stalking to flat out driving by the house every hour.

[–]NibblyPig 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"Not all women!"

- Yes but enough women that every man is terrified of smiling to that girl on the bus or talking with a girl in the coffee shop. Every man has been walking late at night at one point and been made to feel shit that he's terrifying a girl that is walking nearby by just being a man.

Not all women.

But enough women that all men are now afraid of most women.

It's gotten so bad that we have to be afraid of even accidentally making eye contact. We can't ask that you please stop making assumptions. Because if we do we run the risk of being labeled a "creep" and blamed for assaults and rapes that did not and would not happen.

So we speak to you with the body language that we hope you'll find non-threatening. We do not make eye contact, we do not talk to you, or engage in conversation with you, we look out of the window and look as non-threatening as possible that are giant signs that subtly read "SORRY I AM A MAN!" But you insist on ignoring those signs because you have it in your head that our body language is threatening and that we are poised to strike at a moments notice. That our bodies are always ready to assault you.

Not all women.

You can start fucking saying that when all men can stop being afraid. But that's not gonna happen if every woman a man opens up to about anything reacts with horror and assumes they have criminal intentions by saying "Yes all men".

[–]Alkomb 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, but that one's sexist, though! (Sarcasm.)

[–]dryfire 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm a pretty big guy, and every time I walk alone at night I'm paranoid about who might be following me. I don't think it's a female thing, it's just a human thing. I'm curious what scenario the author has in mind where they think that will go away...

[–]ShariVegas 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The worst part is having to explain my paranoia. I'm a huge guy, but I have weak spots where if I'm hit, I'm done for. I walk through the valleys of the shadows of death, fists balled up and an improvised weapon clenched.

Funny that everyone disregards the men who protect women.

[–]Denikke 26 points27 points28 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

OMFG XP As a woman. . .I fricken HATE this.

I have said it before. I will continue saying it. I have never been afraid of a man because he was a man. I have had situations where a man has acted aggressively towards me, and yes, been worried about the situation escalating. And I have had females act aggressively and been just as worried about the situation escalating.

I have never walked down a street at night in fear that a man would attack me.

I have never walked through a dark parking lot, in fear that I would be attacked by a man.

I have never resented a man making comments (from "hey, how's it going" to "what's up beautiful" to whatever kind of catcalling as long as it's not lewd or overly aggressive-which, honestly, has happened a grand total of maybe once)

MEN HAVE NEVER MADE ME FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE, let alone THREATENED by their mere presence!! I have never, in almost 27 years, been in a situation where purely changing the sex of the person/people involved, from male to female, would have made me feel in any way different about the whole thing.

Honestly. . . .I really have to wonder what it feels like to make yourself a victim in all things. To walk around with that kind of fear, all the friggen time. To feel like the world is out to get you. To be that self absorbed. . . .

[–]RockFourFour 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You can really tell a lot about a person by how they perceive the world. People like the one who wrote the example in the OP are cancer, pure and simple. They are full of hate and suspicion, and don't understand how they function day to day.

[–]coke501 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How come that everytime someone has an unreasonable fear of something we call it a phobia, but if women are unreasonable afraid of men we don't tell them to seek help?

[–]Rockbottom503 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a big part of the reason I remain so at odds with feminism! The only people telling women they need to be afraid of men are feminists - all the stats indicate men should be afraid, not women. Yet they continue to perpetuate this myth, blaming men for making feel less safe when the actual reason they feel less safe is because they buy into all this bullshit propaganda!

[–]mikazee 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Just put the word "black" or "jewis" in front of the word men.

[–]elwahrio 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"not all Muslims, but enough that every white westerner feels scared for their life everytime they get on a plane" say every right-wing bigot. Isn't it interesting: some logic but different target.

[–]thehungriestbear 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. This could be used to demonize literally any group.

[–]iBelieveButton 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"Not all blacks!"

-Yes but enough blacks that every while person is terrified of smiliing to that black guy on the bus or talking with the black guy in the coffee ship. Every white person has been walking late at night at one point and been afraid of who might be following them. Every white person has referred to someone as a nigger and every white person has refused a drink from someone they don't know.

Not all blacks.

But enough blacks that all white people are now afraid of most black people. It's gotten so bad that we have to be afraid of even telling you we are afraid. We can't ask that you please stop talking to us. Because if we do we run the risk of being labeled as a "stuck up racist" and blamed for murders and rapes in which we are the victimes.

So we speak to you with body language that we hope you'll understand. We cross our legs and look out the window and wear giant headphones that are giant signs that subtly read "DON'T TALK TO ME!" But you insist on ignoring those signs because you ahve it in your head that our body language doesn't mean anything. That our bodies aren't our bodies.

Not all blacks.

You can start fucking saying that when ALL white people can stop being afraid. But that's not gonna happen if every black person a white person opens up to about this issue dismisses them by saying "not all blacks."

This made me so made I went and typed it up just in the hopes that it'll make it easier for someone to copy/paste if this comes up on their facebook feed.

[–]Insanecrackers 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I saved your post if you let me I'll copy and paste if i can find it again. It sends a strong clear message. If you would be so kind as to pm it to me so i can save it. I'm on mobile. That would be greatly appreciated

[–]mikazee -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks.

[–]Deefry 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll be making this into a /r/menkampf submission when I get home tomorrow.

[–]Swiggy 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Need to send this to may Muslim friends who are concerned about being treated like terrorists. Let them know people's irrational fears about all Muslims being terrorists is really their fault.

[–]thedoze 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not all women are that retarded.

[–]Visimicus 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i'm afraid of people. all people should be afraid of people. it's called being safe. jesus.

[–]GreatBaldung 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Whoa, I can't imagine ever living under constant fear, being troubled by such an intense persecution mania... that sort of shit can drive someone quite mad.

[–]Calybos 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a lot of angry (but ineffective) reactions to the "Not All Men" message... which, to me, suggests that it's hitting home. It calls them out on their bigotry, and they can't come up with a suitable comeback.

Conclusion: Keep using it.

[–]Zuldoon 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't everyone feel scared walking down dark alleys at night. Its not a woman only thing

[–]franklindeer 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"its gotten so bad"

As if things have gotten worse somehow rathet than improved considerably for the last 100 years. That illustrates how out of touch the whole argument is.

[–]ddrluna 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You know, I have had a guy follow me in his car. He pulled up to the curb to try to motion me over. Twice. Then I turned around and tried to walk back home, as the bag of chips I wanted from the convenience store wasn't worth this bullshit. The guy actually turned his car around and followed me into my cul de sac, and when I hid behind a car in the hopes he wouldn't see me, he circled around again. It was one of the scariest things I've ever had happen.

But you know what? I didn't generalize my experiences with that guy to all men. Because I'm not an idiot. Nor did I generalize his race (he was black) to all people of that race. Because I'm not an idiot. It was one man. One asshole. His "creepy" behaviour doesn't leak into everyone else.

This woman has managed to cripple herself socially because of a few bad experiences. She is now ruled by fear. And she has the audacity to assume that all other women share her pathological mindset.

This woman doesn't speak for me. I suspect she doesn't speak for a lot of women. She does, however, speak for enough morons who feel the need to spread this nonsense around, which makes all women look like frightened victims who can't put 1 and 1 together to realize that one jug of milk gone sour does not mean that all milk for the rest of forever will taste that way.

It really pisses me off.

[–]ch1584 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Not all muslims are terrorists

Not all females are liars and cheaters after your assets

But enough are that we should discriminate against them.

Hm. Funny how that argument is suddenly valid when you are sexist against men

[–]Betterwives 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wine who choose taller formidable partners tend to see danger where none actually exists. (recent lester UK study). Once women stop being paranoid for some unknown reason, men will say 'not all men'.

[–]iBelieveButton 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Here OP, go blow up facebook:

"Not all blacks!"

-Yes but enough blacks that every while person is terrified of smiliing to that black guy on the bus or talking with the black guy in the coffee ship. Every white person has been walking late at night at one point and been afraid of who might be following them. Every white person has referred to someone as a nigger and every white person has refused a drink from someone they don't know.

Not all blacks.

But enough blacks that all white people are now afraid of most black people. It's gotten so bad that we have to be afraid of even telling you we are afraid. We can't ask that you please stop talking to us. Because if we do we run the risk of being labeled as a "stuck up racist" and blamed for murders and rapes in which we are the victimes.

So we speak to you with body language that we hope you'll understand. We cross our legs and look out the window and wear giant headphones that are giant signs that subtly read "DON'T TALK TO ME!" But you insist on ignoring those signs because you ahve it in your head that our body language doesn't mean anything. That our bodies aren't our bodies.

Not all blacks.

You can start fucking saying that when ALL white people can stop being afraid. But that's not gonna happen if every black person a white person opens up to about this issue dismisses them by saying "not all blacks."

[–]Alkomb 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, but that one's racist, though! (Sarcasm.)

[–]NibblyPig 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What's gotten so bad? Like, specifically?

[–]EatShihtzu 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's as if people don't understand that a platform like Facebook is a window into the minds of their idiotic friends. I stopped using that bullshit in 2008 and can't say I miss it.

[–]GADBabaganoosh 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Man, to be so fearful. What a bunch of pussies

[–]soalone34 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Replace man with black and woman with white.

[–]PurpleViolettron 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

every girl is terrified

I'm an American chick who has been living for the last three months in a country where I don't speak the language. Men, mostly quite a bit older, regularly smile at me and I smile back because, the way I was raised, that's common courtesy. It's not fucking harmful.

every girl has refused a drink

Nope. I've only had a guy buying me drinks once. I drank them, then realized he'd been buying me way too much and went home with my friends because I couldn't think straight. I did refuse to leave with him because I was too drunk.

We can't ask that you please stop talking to us.

Yes, you can. A "Leave me the fuck alone," works rather well if they're persistent. If he's actually pursuing you and you can't like duck into a nearby business or something, you call the fucking cops. Or you threaten to kick him in the balls. Don't actually do it unless he assaults you first, but threatening it usually makes a man go away.

[–]intensely_human[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So women are increasingly afraid of men? I wonder who made that happen?

[–]TheDude41 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Some women are always afraid.

It's what they do, because it allows them to ask for and often get stuff. Probably a result of poor upbringing.

It's not my lot in life to be an emotional babysitter for females. I have more important things to do.

An by the way, by every aspect, men are far more likely than are women to be the victims of violent crime. We just choose not to let that possibility ruin our lives, and everyone else's.

Damseling, chivalry are total shit.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Gengaar[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh she's much worse. Completely crazy liberal, BLM supporter, white/cis/male privilege, victims should be believed no question. Theres more but you get the picture.

[–]Mythandros 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When you live a life steeped in privilege (like all feminists do), equality seems like oppression.

[–]Artisanpasta -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

tfw only argument to "not all men" is "ugh not this again"

[–]redditorriot -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A word swap to blacks/whites shines a light on this particular nugget.

[+]ThePointyBird -14 points-13 points-12 points 10 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

Seems pretty fucking reasonable to me. Obviously it's an exaggeration to say "every girl", but apart from that, what could any man object to??

[–]veetkoosh 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Every single sentence.

Highlight:

every girl is terrified of smiling [at] that guy on the bus ... all women are now afraid of most men.

They are? And they're now afraid? You really think things have been, and continue to get worse for women in the western world?

We can't ask that you please stop talking to us ... so we speak to you with body language ... [but] you have it in your head that our body language doesn't mean anything.

"I'm sorry -- I'm in the middle of something -- now is not a good time. Thanks," said the full-grown woman.

Not all men. You can start fucking saying that when all women can stop being afraid [of attack by men.]

Reality: The vast majority of male humans are not predators. Women aren't satisfied.

An official letter to all men.

Later!

[+]ThePointyBird -12 points-11 points-10 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, you've lost me. I missed the Official Letter crap, but nothing else there bothers me at all. It's just a summation of the current reality, ie lots of women are scared of men, due to the behaviour of some significant number of men. What's controversial there? Your "man up" attitude is ironic, no?

[–]Shanguerrilla 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't see your point at all honestly. We live in a nation (if you're in the U.S.) with decreasing and low rape or murder of women by men. Where 'male privilege' and 'rape culture' means men are held to a higher standard and -everything- is rape and none of it is condoned or not defended by bystanders or courts...

The speaker in the text is saying ALL women are so oppressed they are afraid to even speak or do anything except 'body language' and poor them we can't hear or understand their body language? Ok... because God forbid, if they would tell a creep they weren't interested in his free drink, then *gasps people will say she's a stuck up bitch? I feel for her. "It's gotten so bad that she can't tell you she's afraid or ((OH NO)) she'll be labelled a stuck up bitch" But in the process she is saying ALL women agree and ALL men are labelled creeps and it is just so so wrong of us to say, no- all men aren't. To do so is oppression.

I don't think that is the world we live in at all.

[–]veetkoosh 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lots of women are scared of men, due to the behaviour of some significant number of men.

2016 women must know they've never been safer from rampaging men. And what significant number of men commit assault on women, anyway?

I don't have a 'Man Up' attitude. I think you might have misread my "An official letter to all men" quote.

[–]derpylord143 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

actually the vast majority of violent crime victims are male - this includes muggings, murder, assualts, you name it (and sex based crimes are predominantly committed in the home not on the street or workplace like this is discussing), the fear females have present can therefore be called unreasonable and irrational and therefore why should we care? an unreasonable fear is an unreasonable fear and an irrational fear is an irrational fear. i am not judging my actions and words on feelings but on logic and how best to proceed, logically if someone has an unreasonable fear then me changing how i act will not and will never fix it, the only way to fix it is at the source aka the woman. not to mention if they have been victims then they should seek counseling as that will help them.

[–]dork_souls 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's just a summation of the current reality, ie lots of women are scared of men, due to the behaviour of some significant number of men.

Not at all. To paraphrase this video, the fear of zombies can be at an all time high, and yet the actual threat of zombies is at an all time low. How people feel doesn't really matter when the numbers show otherwise.

[–]iBelieveButton 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Does this sound reasonable? If you, you are even more terrible human being that I initially thought.

"Not all blacks!"

-Yes but enough blacks that every while person is terrified of smiliing to that black guy on the bus or talking with the black guy in the coffee ship. Every white person has been walking late at night at one point and been afraid of who might be following them. Every white person has referred to someone as a nigger and every white person has refused a drink from someone they don't know.

Not all blacks.

But enough blacks that all white people are now afraid of most black people. It's gotten so bad that we have to be afraid of even telling you we are afraid. We can't ask that you please stop talking to us. Because if we do we run the risk of being labeled as a "stuck up racist" and blamed for murders and rapes in which we are the victimes.

So we speak to you with body language that we hope you'll understand. We cross our legs and look out the window and wear giant headphones that are giant signs that subtly read "DON'T TALK TO ME!" But you insist on ignoring those signs because you ahve it in your head that our body language doesn't mean anything. That our bodies aren't our bodies.

Not all blacks.

You can start fucking saying that when ALL white people can stop being afraid. But that's not gonna happen if every black person a white person opens up to about this issue dismisses them by saying "not all blacks."

[–]ThePointyBird -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

No, sounds horrible, for obvious historical and cultural reasons. Reasons that simply do not apply to women talking about men. Men are on top, men have the power, the physical muscle, the money. If a woman says she is intimidated by men, just suck it up. It's not a slur on your character.

[–]iBelieveButton 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Got it. You are just as sexist as the woman in the post. Understood.

Congratulations for being a terrible person.

[–]Arby01 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

If a woman says she is intimidated by men, just suck it up. It's not a slur on your character.

If guys say that women are sluts, whores, and nagging bitches, just suck it up. It's not a slur on your character.

Oh, wait, you mean it doesn't really work that way?

[–]Arby01 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The funny this is - you are actually correct here - it isn't a slur on my character or any other guys character. Or conversely in my example, on any specific woman's character.

However, this isn't about the particulars of the speech - it's about the PSA-style statement ('official letter to all men') that says that the problem is men, not the writer.

The letter writer has a problem. And should be supported in getting through or over her problem. Her problem. The problem isn't men, it's her attitude and choices. That's what she needs help getting over.

Men getting upset at being unjustly attacked also need support and understanding and empathy. Being unjustly blamed for someone else's issues is unfair and being angry is a reasonable response.

[–]ThePointyBird 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but where does the writer ever say anything remotely analogous to "women are sluts"? What she says is simply "I am scared of men", not "men are aggressive bastards". It's a statement about her, not a statement about men.

So if you said "I have difficulty trusting women", that would be a better analogy. And in no way offensive. Frustrating to hear, yes, but not a slur I women, just as this writer was not insulting men.

But it seems every man here wants a piece of this woman for what they imagine she said. Wouldn't it be better to address her actual post, instead of her imaginary one? It must be frustrating to hear a woman's say "I'm frightened of men", and that saying Not All Men doesn't make her feel any better. But nobody here is addressing that.

[–]Arby01 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

but where does the writer ever say anything remotely analogous to "women are sluts"?

Wouldn't it be better to address her actual post

From the article:

  • "But enough men that every girl is terrified of smiling"
  • "But enough men that all women are now afraid of all men"

So if you said "I have difficulty trusting women", that would be a better analogy.

Nope, it wouldn't. The writer clearly blamed men. All men. While admitting that not every man was like that but "enough men". The writer wasn't accepting responsibility for her feelings but placing the problem on others. She was very much stating that "men are the problem" and that's before we address the very directed "you insist on ..." and the "official letter to all men".

So, no. Your interpretation is a lie. You are the one trying to hold people to what you imagine she said. It isn't what she said. You are the one that needs to address the actual post, not the people you are arguing against.

It must be frustrating to hear a woman's say "I'm frightened of men", and that saying Not All Men doesn't make her feel any better. But nobody here is addressing that.

It's no one else's responsibility to make her feel any better. That's her problem.

EDIT: actually, interestingly enough, to add to that. The writer never says "I am scared of men". She never actually talks in the first person at all and never states that it's her feelings at all. It's intended to be a statement of fact. Your interpretation is completely your own, and not supported by the article being discussed at all.

[–]ThePointyBird 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh, ok. If you think that's what she was saying, go at her. Your second grade English teacher would be disappointed in your reading comprehension skills, but who cares.

[–]Arby01 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Really?

Point out where she said what you have claimed. I supported my arguments.

You have created what you think she said out of whole cloth to support your argument. It isn't the truth and isn't in the document.

Please, though, be dismissive. You have no other recourse when your argument is exposed as completely without merit.

[–]ThePointyBird 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I am literally just reading the words she wrote. No interpretation required. I don't have to make an "argument", as her words are crystal clear.

What is her state of mind? She is scared of men.

What request does she make? Please stop saying "Not All Men" to me when I tell you I'm scared.

Who does she make that request of? All men.

All the other conclusions you make, eg that she blames all men for her fear, are simply not there. But you can fill in any claim you want, and then get angry about it. It just seems a bit childish.

[–]Arby01 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am literally just reading the words she wrote.

please provide a literal quote from the article.

EDIT: that supports your argument/story.

[–]mikazee 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Put the word black in from of the word man or men every time it is used and pretend the article was about black people.

[+]ThePointyBird -14 points-13 points-12 points 10 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but it's not about black men, a group suffering systemic disadvantage. It's about men, a group enjoying systemic advantage.

You can't just swap asymmetrical roles in a scenario and then say "See! Look how weird that would be. The original scenario is therefore bullshit!"

Sometimes you just have to understand that people out there have feelings, rational or otherwise, and listen to them, instead of whining about how unfair it is. This writer is not saying that you or any particular man is a creep, only that enough men have been creepy to her that she now feels worried that the next man might also be a creep. That is the real world. It doesn't matter if it's never been this good... It's still not good enough that a large chunk of the population can walk around without feeling afraid.

But why do I look for empathy in this sub?

[–]mikazee 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but it's not about black men, a group suffering systemic disadvantage. It's about men, a group enjoying systemic advantage.

Assuming what you said is true, how is it relevant? you said "what could any man object to??" I was trying to point out that any man could object to being treated feared for the action of only a few. With black people most people say it's wrong to judge the whole group based on the actions of a few, and that prejudice is part of them being disadvantage. With men you switch it around and say men are advantaged so it's alright to fear them all based on the actions of a few.

You can't just swap asymmetrical roles in a scenario and then say "See! Look how weird that would be. The original scenario is therefore bullshit!"

I just did. And my reasoning is because in one scenario people say it's wrong to judge all based on the actions of a few. In the other people say OH WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE WOMEN!

Sometimes you just have to understand that people out there have feelings, rational or otherwise, and listen to them, instead of whining about how unfair it is.

No. I won't enable people to spiral into self delusional bullshit. Now in person I'm not going to be as harsh as I am online, but this fear is irrational. Especially in regards to street violence. You say men are advantaged, but in this specific issue, street violence, men are about 3 times more likely than a woman to be attacked. And yet I'm supposed to listen to people safer than me whine about how scared they are. Oh and by the way, most men have their guard up walking the streets at night, we just don't throw pity parties over it.

Imagine white people telling black people how scared they are about police brutality, that black people don't realize how scary it is. You can dismiss my critique as whining but I'm still not gonna coddle someone who is safer than me who thinks they and more reason to be afraid than I DO!

This writer is not saying that you or any particular man is a creep, only that enough men have been creepy to her that she now feels worried that the next man might also be a creep.

I know, and just like how I wouldn't be expected to coddle a white person who crosses the street to avoid me because I'm black (I'm black by the way), I'm not gonna coddle a woman doing the same because I'm a man. Not because I look like a thug, not because I'm doing anything wrong, just because I have a penis.

That is the real world.

Yup the real world where men are more likely to be victim to street violence than women, and women are allowed to act like it affects them more than men. Actually no, not all women, plenty are reasonable, just weak ones.

It doesn't matter if it's never been this good... It's still not good enough that a large chunk of the population can walk around without feeling afraid.

I don't care if you're afraid. I care if you're in danger. And if you're more afraid than the person in more danger, that's on you.

But why do I look for empathy in this sub?

Beats me. Most people here aren't looking to see women get coddled when they talk about men like racists talk about jews or mexicans or blacks.

[–]Arby01 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

But why do I look for empathy in this sub?

indeed, since you provide none, why do you look for empathy anywhere?

It's about men, a group enjoying systemic advantage.

In general this sub disagrees with you. Certainly there are places and things where men are advantaged and there are places and things where women are advantaged - you choose only to talk about one side of the situation however.

Sometimes you just have to understand that people out there have feelings, rational or otherwise, and listen to them,

Good advice. Perhaps you should listen?

[–]ThePointyBird -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Let's see. We have two people here. The first says she is scared and intimidated. The second says she is taking bullshit, and it's offensive that she says she's scared.

Now, which of those people deserves empathy? Which of those people deserves to be listened to?

Have I misrepresented the choice here?

[–]Arby01 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, you have misrepresented the choice.

You have 1 person claiming to represent an entire gender, blaming the other gender for her feelings.

It's an attack. The person responding to it has a right to feel attacked. Your response is to say "what is there to object to"?

Assuming you're a woman, me saying "maybe all women aren't gold digging cheating whores but enough of them are that none of them should be trusted. ". is likely offensive.

It should be. Regardless of what my personal experience with women is or isn't. I could be speaking from a place of deeply hurt personal experiences and you would still be in the right to be offended, and angry. You should be just as empathetic to the responder as the blamer.

Now, you can argue whether or not that viewpoint (on either side) is valid or rational, sure. That's not what you are doing. You are actually saying "What's there to object to?" - or to rephrase, since the implication from the OP document is obvious "This is clearly true. Men are scum." in a men's rights forum and then being upset that your challenged on it.

Really? All women have to "feel safe" before men can say "hey, you know what, there's a few socially awkward guys that don't get body language and there is a very small pool of guys that are violent, you don't get to tar all of the guys out there with this bullshit"?

That's problematic since each of us choose our own feelings. I have no responsibility for you feeling afraid, that's on you.

[–]temppa 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Probably the one who says "she is talking bullshit". The one complaining being scared and intimidated is most likely making things up. It is men who should be scared and intimidated. They are the ones in real danger however we do not see them complaining.

[–]ThePointyBird 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I see you complaining. I'm not blind ;-)

Honestly, if your response to someone who says they are afraid is to say they are probably making it up, then it's no wonder there are women who find men frightening.

[–]dork_souls 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, if your response to someone who says they are afraid is to say they are probably making it up, then it's no wonder there are women who find men frightening.

So you're setting up a nice Kafka trap.

"Men are dangerous and I'm scared."

"This is an unfair generalisation."

"It's no wonder women find men frightening when this is how they respond!"

[–]ThePointyBird -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Except that she doesn't say that men are dangerous. She only says that some men are creepy, and that she is therefore scared of men. There is no unfair generalisation. There's not any generalisation at all.

Like I was bitten by a dog when I was little, and now I'm scared of dogs. It's no reflection on dogs, it's just my fear. Just stop telling me that your dog is really friendly because that doesn't help at all - it simply demonstrates your lack of understanding, your lack of care.

[–]dork_souls 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Except that she doesn't say that men are dangerous. She only says that some men are creepy, and that she is therefore scared of men.

No, she extrapolates that enough men are "creepy" to warrant judging all men. Hence the 'not all men' rebuttal. She's trying to set up the situation where enough men commit enough horrible acts to justify staying away from all men.

Her entire shtick is "not all men do these, but enough do for me to demonize them."

Just stop telling me that your dog is really friendly because that doesn't help at all - it simply demonstrates your lack of understanding, your lack of care.

It doesn't, it demonstrates my ability to empathise but also encourage you to not judge all dogs under your blanket generalisation.

A friend of mine was in a relationship with a Muslim man when his (fairly traditional) family wanted to trick her into marriage so they wouldn't feel ashamed to have an 'amoral' son. She found out that the party his family had thrown was a muslim wedding after the fact. She now judges all Muslims as sly and deceptive.

Would you say my convincing her that not all Muslims are sly and deceptive demonstrative of my lack of care? Or is it that I understand but want her to realise that she is making an inaccurate judgement on a lot of people because of a few individuals?

Remember, individuals do not represent the group. They are just part of it.

[–]Arby01 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She only says that some men are creepy, and that she is therefore scared of men.

The perception that a man is creepy is usually by the one doing the labelling, not the man. The being scared is also the one doing the 'being scared'.

Nobody has responsibility for the writer's perceptions and beliefs and emotions except for the writer.

Your dog example is excellent. If you were bitten by a dog and are now afraid of dogs, people will be understanding. However, telling dog owners that their dogs are dangerous, need to be muzzled and penned at all times and should never be allowed to leave their yard because you have an irrational fear would be met with - "it's your problem, not the dogs problem".

That is exactly the response you are getting here. She wants to be afraid? Ok. That's her choice. It's no one else's problem. Stop trying to make it someone else's problem.

[–]Turtlez_Rawck 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I honestly just want to finish up college and obtain a decent job. I'm at a disadvantage because I'm a male. We're I female I would be more like to earn a degree and I would likely obtain a higher paying job (within my age group). So I think it's pretty analogous.

[–]iBelieveButton 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This writer is not saying that you or any particular man is a creep,

THE WRITER LITERALLY SAID THAT ALL MEN ARE CREEPS. HOW DUMB ARE YOU?

[–]ThePointyBird 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No, she literally didn't.

Not as dumb as some.

[–]iBelieveButton 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

every man

This means ALL MEN. Yes, you are that dumb.

[–]ThePointyBird 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, if you're going to just make up stuff she didn't say and criticise her on that basis, I guess there's not much point carrying on. If you want to be offended by something you imagine she said, go for it.

[–]iBelieveButton 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Except she did actually say those words. Fuck off.

[–]ThePointyBird -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, iBelieve. Read it again. She didn't. But that's ok. You're offended, so she must be to blame. I can understand that.

Thanks for the abuse. Catch you later.

[–]iBelieveButton 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She literally uses the words "Every Man." So again, fuck off.

[+]_cs 10 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Hey, I agree with you and I could go on my own little rant about why this is okay to share and isn't completely biased towards men (I think parts of it are too strong, but not overall).

BUT we're in /r/mensrights so there's not much point in trying. In fact, i came to the comments to see if any other people thought the post was reasonable, and I knew to scroll to the bottom of the comments if I wanted to find other people who agreed.

[–]iBelieveButton 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because it's not reasonable. Is this reasonable:

"Not all blacks!"

-Yes but enough blacks that every while person is terrified of smiliing to that black guy on the bus or talking with the black guy in the coffee ship. Every white person has been walking late at night at one point and been afraid of who might be following them. Every white person has referred to someone as a nigger and every white person has refused a drink from someone they don't know.

Not all blacks.

But enough blacks that all white people are now afraid of most black people. It's gotten so bad that we have to be afraid of even telling you we are afraid. We can't ask that you please stop talking to us. Because if we do we run the risk of being labeled as a "stuck up racist" and blamed for murders and rapes in which we are the victimes.

So we speak to you with body language that we hope you'll understand. We cross our legs and look out the window and wear giant headphones that are giant signs that subtly read "DON'T TALK TO ME!" But you insist on ignoring those signs because you ahve it in your head that our body language doesn't mean anything. That our bodies aren't our bodies.

Not all blacks.

You can start fucking saying that when ALL white people can stop being afraid. But that's not gonna happen if every black person a white person opens up to about this issue dismisses them by saying "not all blacks."

No it fucking isn't you sexist bigoted piece of shit.

[–]Gengaar[S] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As someone who stated in an r/askreddit omg what should not succeed, you answered All Lives Matter, and Men's Rights. So you blatantly come in to a sub which you inherently hate and argue one of the core beliefs here. Gosh you must be fun at parties. You say you've been banned from the mgtow sub too for whining about them in their own sub. If you're not going to be constructive then gtfo.

[–]ThePointyBird 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One of the core beliefs here? What is that belief? Serious question.

I love this sub, always have. You guys are always willing to talk, and you don't ban people for disagreeing with you. Some of you do get pretty rude, but I'm surely asking for that. Who wants to just hang around and agree with everyone?

As for being constructive, I would have thought coming and disagreeing and talking and arguing was exactly that. Don't you guys like to talk? I know some of you do!

[–]PurpleViolettron 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Women can object to the characterization of us as being weak and lacking our own agency and ability to stand up for ourselves. I regularly get yelled at by loved ones because I can get too fearless and they want to make sure I'm safe. I was pushed into carrying a self-defense device and eventually bought a knife to keep in my purse so that my family and friends wouldn't bug me about walking around town at night alone. And I go to school in a very small town. I don't live my life in fear that I'll be assaulted because I know that just isn't likely. I'm a woman, I'm statistically far less likely to be assaulted, period. I don't need to live in fear, I just need to live my life.

[–]ThePointyBird 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I completely agree. I don't live my life in fear either. But I don't despise those who do.

[–]marauderp -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't despise people who live in irrational fear. I pity them.

I do despise people who convince other people that they should live in irrational fear. Or people who enable and encourage irrational fears.

[–]ThePointyBird 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good. I'm with you on that.

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