If men focus on their own pleasure during sex, it's sexist. If they focus on their partner's pleasure, it's sexist. If they breathe air, it's sexist.

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-12-21T01:40:28+00:00

How about if we just stay home watching porn? Let me guess, that's sexist too!

KrisK_lvin · 2015-12-21T02:21:07+00:00

Even the author acknowledges how awful this article is ...

Nothing that I’m about to say is a mark of a terrible person.

… so she tries to shift the blame elsewhere:

It’s just a mark of the ways toxic masculinity impacts all areas of our lives, including sexuality.

Where would Feminists like this be without cis-het. white men to offload all their emotional baggage onto?

I can almost see the future headlines now:

‘Male suicide - tragedy or just another example of men shirking their responsibilities to women?'

harryballsagna · 2015-12-21T07:46:10+00:00

Just say you hate men. Just title your article "I hate men so much that even when they're nice, they're assholes".

It would save us all some time.

KrisK_lvin · 2015-12-21T02:18:29+00:00

At what point will people who say things like this ...:

Sometimes, though, I’ll hear a hetero guy talking about how important women’s pleasure is, and it leaves me cringing.

… finally get a clue and realise ‘Hey, wait just a minute - maybe the reason why Feminism isn’t working is because it doesn’t work?'

chocoboat · 2015-12-21T04:55:12+00:00

Don't forget, it's also sexist to be gay, because you're valuing women less when you don't want to sleep with them.

It's also sexist to be asexual, because you're denying women the love and physical contact of having sex with them.

2015-12-21T02:12:22+00:00

Let me just ask something... according to feminists, should men have no feelings or opinions or ideas with regard to women what-so-ever, except to echo what the woman across the table from him has said?

What is a feminist-approved thing for a man to say to a woman? "Greetings, human. I have no opinions, except for the ones that you say."?

Oh, but even that would be unacceptable in some way, right?

FFS.

Jacobtk · 2015-12-21T04:47:01+00:00

Because no one else wrote it: who did not see that one coming?

There is ironically no way of pleasing feminists like this. They move the goal post so much that it might as well be a baton. Who was it who told men to focus on women's pleasure? Who was it who told men that giving women pleasure was the mark of true manhood? Who was it who told men that if they focusing on women's pleasure over their own that should be pleasurable to them?

Every one of those concepts comes directly from modern feminism. Now that men are willing to do, it is sexist? Because they "may be completely unaware of how, if they talk a lot about how much they enjoy seeing a woman orgasm, how hot a particular noise or movement she makes in pleasure is, and so on, they may be setting up a sense of 'do this for my pleasure' in their female partner."

Except for the part where the men cause the women to have orgasms. The women do not have to do anything. They are having something done to them. They literally only have to lie there and let the man do all the work, but still this author complains.

RedditLovsCensorship · 2015-12-21T11:32:01+00:00

this is very much a gendered phenomenon in a heterocentric culture: It has its roots in toxic masculinity

Every single article. I got it, we are total scum and we can't help it. Time to boost the male suicide statistics because my toxic masculinity tell me to. I donate my last male tears for a good cause.

SoldierofNod · 2015-12-21T13:32:42+00:00

https://archive.is/2zlDZ Please use archive links for sites like this.

rubberjesus45 · 2015-12-21T01:28:05+00:00

I figure that if feminists are going to call men sexist no matter what we do, it's better to be complete overt pigs and actually deserve the accusation.

Everything we do is sexist? So be it. Get in the kitchen, bitch. Pot roast don't cook itself. And none of your back-talk, cuz my pimp-slappin' arm is strong.

75657665756 · 2015-12-21T01:56:28+00:00

[permanently deleted]

VoiceofLuke · 2015-12-21T01:22:24+00:00

So quit bitching and focus on yourself. It's the best available option.

_spell · 2015-12-21T01:42:09+00:00

Even the commentators on Alternet are calling the writer a bitch. Ouch.

zen_affleck · 2015-12-21T06:29:31+00:00

The really messed up thing is how it immediately becomes a bad thing if the man enjoys it. Whatever it is, even a woman's own sexual pleasure, becomes bad if a man can also derive some pleasure from it. It's amazing considering how hard feminism fought to have a woman's pleasure during sex be recognized at large.

Where does it end? If I tell my SO that I'm happy and proud of her for getting a new job for finishing her degree, is there a chance my happiness will taint hers?

gmcalabr · 2015-12-21T12:54:30+00:00

As always, take a slightly reasonable talking point and turn it into a vaguely academic-sounding dissertation on "toxic masculinity". Thinking deeply for 10 minutes to come up with an anti-male viewpoint does not make feminism academic.

SaiHottari · 2015-12-21T08:16:38+00:00

I love how it seems utterly impossible in feminist's eyes that a man has any sense of altruistic love for another human being. But that's fine, if you're so dead-set on convincing yourselves that we are utterly without a pure motive, fixated on depriving us of any appreciation for who we are as human beings, then have fun by yourselves, Femies!

xatmatwork · 2015-12-21T14:02:58+00:00

Sometimes I hear someone saying "you know, I actually like giving money to charity, it makes me feel good knowing I've done the right thing." Little did they know they were suffering from toxic masculinity.

Gurunexx · 2015-12-21T02:24:10+00:00

Isn't she misguidedly calling sexism what is simply an all too common form of selfishness? Which by the way, is present in just about everything any human does at any given time. Why make this about sex and gender and toxic masculinity other than to push an agenda?

Wargame4life · 2015-12-21T13:22:26+00:00

the secret here is to just tune out any and all feminists.

their insane bullshit has no value

2015-12-21T07:46:07+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRquPxdHNGE

radeonr9270 · 2015-12-21T08:57:15+00:00

2015-12-21T10:01:26+00:00

You know back in english class where you were given a task to write an essay on some subject, and you were really grasping at straws to figure out something to write about, so you just made shit up and fudged in in hopes of getting a passing grade?

That's what this sounds like.

Intotheloop · 2015-12-21T12:09:04+00:00

Notice how she talks about her 'actual experience'. Most of this just sounds like a way of rationalizing the fact that she has slept with guys that didn't really do it for her and she subsequently found it disgusting that they tried to compensate by going the extra mile rather than naturally having what it takes to turn her on.

And then instead of chalking it up to a life experience and moving on with things as a normal person would, she chooses to see everything in life through a feminist lens and make bizarre connections that couldn't possibly be seen if she didn't have blinders on.

Bearded_Deity · 2015-12-21T14:22:37+00:00

Is this really surprising?

I mean, she talks about women having "anxiety" and "stress" about the "mans personal success in sex" but to that I just say...welcome to every guys life....EVER...and the stress we feel from society telling us how good men should be in bed and how any REAL man can please a woman...so is it THAT surprising when men feel as if their masculinity is tied to their ability to sexually please a woman?

She talks about how the woman sees it as a failure if she doesn't boost a man's ego with a "big showy orgasm" but if they don't orgasm, its the mans fault, and we are shamed as not being good enough.

Fucking feminists, and their bull shit, hypocritical, "I'm a child and can do/act/say whatever I want" crap.

I really hate feminists. I'm glad I married a cool woman who doesn't roll with this kind of BS.

Articles like this, just put MORE pressure on men everywhere, to be something we aren't. Women like this, expect us to be robot mind readers. Women who write crap like this don't even take in to account that ALL women are different, and what women want varies from person to person.

And really, if you're having sex, and you aren't concerned for your partners orgasm, no matter if your straight, gay, man or woman....you're probably a selfish dick. lol

shaolingod · 2015-12-21T15:27:05+00:00

The main point is don't freak out if the lady doesn't scream in ecstacy. We're all responsible for our own pleasure. -Kinda gets lost in the jargon.

2015-12-21T11:18:37+00:00

Well, yeah of course its sexist. You're privileging your male lungs over the lungs of womyn.

TalonX1982 · 2015-12-21T11:22:45+00:00

What can you even say any more? I don't know what to say about that article. All I can do...is this.

littleyohead · 2015-12-21T12:08:47+00:00

Lately, I've been thinking about becoming asexual. I know you don't "become" asexual, but fuck it. I have just been getting turned off just by the thought of a woman, I know ALL women aren't like this, but it's hard to believe that most of them aren't somewhat delusional , unreasonable, and downright stupid. Of course that has been a long held belief by a lot of men that it's now a cliche. Also, it doesn't help that their bodies does a ton of completely gross stuff.

D3USN3X · 2015-12-21T14:01:33+00:00

Without reading the article.

I wonder if they have an actual concept on how to do things.

copper_chicken · 2015-12-21T14:19:51+00:00

I'm so happy to be married to a woman that thinks that today's feminists are ridiculous idiots.

esantipapa · 2015-12-21T14:44:41+00:00

Womandroids can't get here soon enough.

lartrak · 2015-12-21T15:18:24+00:00

I remember a male friend of mine commented on this article that this general mindset applies to women (blaming the partner when they can't get them off) quite often, as he experienced it first hand.

It just doesn't come up nearly as often for then as men, typically, are quite a bit easier to get off than women. I'd wager a guess and say it is more frequent amongst gay women though.

thelonecabbage · 2015-12-21T15:29:29+00:00

It's wrong how much pleasure I got from that article.

acelister · 2015-12-21T16:04:04+00:00

So glad I no longer have to try and please my wife in bed. If we've talked enough about it in 12 years, it should be effortless.

But I'll have to remind her not to let me see her orgasm!

FFXIV_Machinist · 2015-12-21T16:09:20+00:00

so what im getting from this is that she had an encounter with a man who didnt perform to her standards, and he likely said that he couldn't get into it, because she didnt want to put up any effort into making her partners experience good.

TheDude41 · 2015-12-21T16:50:26+00:00

Damseling shitheads.

GoodScumBagBrian · 2015-12-21T16:55:44+00:00

complaining is sexist

ExpendableOne · 2015-12-21T16:56:17+00:00

Those poor oppressed women. I know it must be horrible to have men out there who literally just want to pleasure you in whatever way possible and fulfil whatever physical/emotional need and sexual desire you may have. For free and without strings! I don't understand how women even leave their safe zones anymore.

VinKelsier · 2015-12-21T17:03:52+00:00

As someone who's had a related discussion with his wife, the author here almost had a worthy point, but then decided to push for some feminist, toxic masculinity objective instead of simply seeing an aspect of human nature that occurs between different individuals.

The type of scenario she is describing absolutely can happen, but it's not sexist in any way, and can happen in situations that are completely separate from sex altogether.

First off, we as humans, get some form of pleasure from making others happy - buying someone a present they really like, teaching someone a concept and them having that "aha!" moment, doing someone a simple favor that makes them smile. Or, wait for it, pleasing our partner in bed. It is 100% okay to get pleasure out of making another individual happy.

That said, I fully agree that someone can see that pleasure, then themselves try to hard by following this concept themselves, which, in regards to sex, can create an issue. But this has nothing to do with masculinity. The guy takes pleasure from making the girl happy. The girl notices he's happy doing this, so she tries harder to make him happy in whatever form was discussed in this article, which then causes him to think she's even happier, and the cycle continues. The eventual dissatisfaction is something that occurs within the woman's mind here (but it is real), not something related to "toxic masculinity."

The moral of the story here is people should talk it out and come to an understanding. I'd guess, the truth of the matter is in most guys' situations (saying this as a guy who feels this way) is that they legitimately want their partner to feel as good as she can during whatever sexual encounters occur - if that doesn't mean orgasm on a certain day, totally fine, he wants her to be as happy as she can be. There's a false assumption that orgasm is always the most happy, that I'm sure some people can fall for.

It is obviously totally fine for a guy to want this for his partner, and it's obviously not a selfish idea, DESPITE THE FACT that he can take pleasure from her being happy.

And again, this translates into so many nonsexual aspects of life. My wife and I have 2 kids, and we are both incredibly happy when we see them happy and excited about well, anything. It isn't selfish of us to take pleasure in our children being happy.

I know most people on here agree, but I feel most responses have been sarcastic responses that ignore both the fact she does have a point worth mentioning (minus the feminism aspect) and also miss the core problem in what she wrote (though touch on the larger picture).

Savor_The_Flavor · 2015-12-21T17:11:13+00:00

Does anyone else feel like the 3 "points" we're really just one point that was elaborated on to one degree or another?

Why is it suddenly wrong to take pleasure in a job well done? Especially when there is so much pressure on males to perform well sexually in the first place. Youre damn skippy that guys tend to be happy and proud when we have given our significant others an orgasm. Let's be honest here guys, for most of us, that doesn't happen every time. So now it's wrong for me to be happy and even relieved when things work at optimal capacity?

If we don't perform well enough, we are likely targets of whispers and ridicule. If we do perform well and acknowledge that, it's "toxic masculinity" all the sudden?

Also, so what if guys like to give oral and are willing to discuss it? I've heard plenty of women announce that they like to give blowjobs. Should I consider that "toxic feminism"?

2015-12-21T17:13:57+00:00

Jesus Christ lmao. These fucking women are seriously insane.

gsettle · 2015-12-21T17:16:15+00:00

To all feminists everywhere: Get over yourselves. You do not have the final say on whether life is fair or not. It's not, period. Fair is somewhere adults go to watch pigs race for cookies.

JulianneLesse · 2015-12-21T17:45:28+00:00

It's all rooted back to toxic masculinity of course

2015-12-22T13:32:52+00:00

Females need to do something other than to simply lay there in bed, so they should participate in their pleasure-seeking. Maybe hop on top and actually work for their pleasure.

What if men blamed women and said: Women take way to long to climax, so what's wrong with them that it takes them so long? Are they that inept at even sex like everything else they endeavor?

Stop placing your pleasure expectations and blame on someone else.

AEther_Flux · 2015-12-21T16:18:35+00:00

The sex is best for both parties when I focus on only my pleasure. Anytime I worry about her pleasure the sex sucks for both of us.

2015-12-21T18:50:20+00:00

Did anyone actually read this article? If you did and can look pass all the bullshit politically correct nonsense she tries to include, you would realize that this is actually a pretty decent article that doesn't necessarily hate on guys.

Their are a lot of guys out their that take so much pride and pleasure from performing well in the sack that it can leave their partner feeling more like a trophy.

I used to be one of those guys, with my wife, she taught me that being great in bed is more then about what you as an individual can do for your partner, but making sure to maintain that emotionally hot connection.

Which is kind of the main point of this article. Down vote away, but if you look in my post history you will see I am a big supporter of Men's Rights.

Title	If men focus on their own pleasure during sex, it's sexist. If they focus on their partner's pleasure, it's sexist. If they breathe air, it's sexist.
Author	Gurunexx
Upvotes	514
Comments	155
Date	December 21, 2015 1:20 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3xn8qe/if_men_focus_on_their_own_pleasure_during_sex_its/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/if-men-focus-on-their-own-pleasure-during-sex-its.964775 https://theredarchive.com/post/964775

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