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Dear Salon: Alleged rape does not equal rape. I hope you enjoy your defamation suit.

DeadGamerWalking

May 19, 2015
391 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/19/rape_survivor_emma_sulkowicz_carries_mattress_to_graduation/
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Post Information
Title Dear Salon: Alleged rape does not equal rape. I hope you enjoy your defamation suit.
Author

DeadGamerWalking

Upvotes 391
Comments 84
Date May 19, 2015 4:50 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/36iehu/dear_salon_alleged_rape_does_not_equal_rape_i/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/dear-salon-alleged-rape-does-not-equal-rape-i-hope.979855
https://theredarchive.com/post/979855
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Comments

[+]Tqbfjotlds 11 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

Well at least after her graduation, she can get a job as a mover. She has solid credentials - "carried a mattress around a campus for 4 years".

[–]whelponry 35 points36 points37 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

In the real world, that's just about all she would be qualified to do besides cleaning toilets. She ought to be ashamed of what she's done, especially given the text messages she sent to him for some time after the alleged incident.

In the pretend world of teh feelz (in other words, this world), she will take a prominent place at some radical feminist organization spewing her hate against men and due process. No worry about staining the reputation of the organization when the organization itself is a stain, and the world is a mess anyway to those not willing to look closely enough.

[+]NNYPhillipJFry 11 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Got a link to those texts?

[–]Cross_of_Coronado 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

also very interested! Link?

[–]RhEEziE -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Google does wonders for the curiosity.

[–]RhEEziE -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Google does wonders for the curiosity.

[–]Flareprime 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

so does the reddit search box

It was a thing around here when her allegations came out. But there ya go

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"teh feelz"

You don't want to write like Emma, do you?

[–]Cross_of_Coronado 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

who's Emma?

[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Cross_of_Coronado 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She needed a senior thesis and somehow got the idea with the matress. And she was sure, that this idea would sell in the current climate. That's ALL that there is too this "rape". Maybe she wanted to punish him too, so the Matress-Idea was perfect. She needed a senior thesis and engineered everything together, so it fits.

Of course she'll get an A+. Well and if she was in marketing, I think she'd even deserved it.

It is disgusting and repulsive.

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I doubt a company whose employees are mostly men would hire this cancer.

[–]Negrodamuswuzhere 62 points63 points64 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I don't understand, hasn't her account been debunked/called into question pretty thoroughly? Why is this allowed?

[–]Francois_Rapiste 61 points62 points63 points 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]Negrodamuswuzhere 13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This is so depressing, I like to think I am a fair person. I believe women deserve the same chances men get. Exonerated by the police and university gestapo council, still gets called a rapist by female politicians. I read the comments on Jezebel (bad idea), hoping for one person to just point this out. Instead it's a bunch of "you go girl!" "fuck that rapist!" . Are these people stupid or just willfully ignorant? If they find it plausible that this dude lied and the NYPD and University covered it up, why can't the reverse be true?

[–]dungone 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are these people stupid or just willfully ignorant?

If people weren't that stupid and ignorant, defamation lawsuits wouldn't be necessary. As it stands you've got one person who is knowingly lying and the rest of these people are just sheep. Its not a crime to be an idiot, unfortunately.

[–]Francois_Rapiste 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]CountVonVague 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

it's because the mass media operates on a timed basis and it just so happens that putting out stories like this is in their best financial interest and lines up with an agenda to produce "juicy" news stories. This summer is likely going to be the summer of criticizing establishment feminism so it's best to get in those remaining tidbits of stories to stoke the waiting fire. Lawyers can protect the company because in many regards these ppl are just "reporting on an older story with the information they had available", let's them play by their own narrative in a sense.

Mattress Girl's story has been invalidated so much by this point it's nearly criminal to continue the story portraying her as the victim, but the News Media will stick to it's story until "something else comes up that will be a better story". That something being how much unjust leeway has been given to anyone with a feminist-party-pin and a sob-story

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She's already made one false accusation. Likely no administrator wants to risk it by saying no. Just let her hands her tantrum then leave.

Cowardly but sensible enough.

[–]scemcee 37 points38 points39 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That she was allowed to bring the stupid mattress to graduation is only going to work in the young man's favor in his suit against the University. It is clear that they did their most to aid Emma Sulkowicz in her attempt to publicly defame him. I hope they settle for millions.

[–]crmullins 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It could be that if they stop allowing it now it will be viewed as an admission that they should never have allowed it in the first place. Which would also make them more vulnerable.

Either way I expect to see a fat settlement.

[–]DavidByron2 35 points36 points37 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

She's not actually carrying her mattress, right? That thin looks like the smallest mattress you could find. Thin, light and child sized. That always bugs me because real mattresses are heavy. She's not actually "carrying that weight" even as a protest.

[–]skarn17 20 points21 points22 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Haha I totally agree, noticed it when she first started. A real mattress is heavy as shit

[–]RedPresident 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can confirm, that is a real looking dorm mattress. I have owned pillows that were heavier.

[–]nolightspared 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It looks to be a decent size

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Looks small to me.

[–]BlueDoorFour 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is actually pretty typical of dorm mattresses. Most freshman dorms I know of have mattresses in size Twin-Long, but hers seems to be about twin sized. Whatever the dimensions, they're usually only about that thick.

I guess the symbolism being... "rape" on campus isn't as much a weight to carry?

[–]Super_BetaMax 51 points52 points53 points 11 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Aren't there are strict rules on what you can and cannot wear / bring to the graduation ceremony? They dictate everything down to the color of your shoes!

But they will probably make an exception for this ho since she is a special victim and all.

[–]DeadGamerWalking 35 points36 points37 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I hope he will be able to make a good case that the uni supported the witch hunt against him and they wonder why reps in the hill won't meet women alone. Disgusting.

[–]bertreapot 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I bet the University didn't stop her from carrying the mattress at graduation for two reasons: 1, the staff have sympathy for her, and 2, they don't want the bad photo op of them wrestling a mattress away from her.

Seriously, can you imagine how much people would freak out if the headlines were "Mattress girl silenced at graduation" and "Hero rape survivor denied her story." Instead, they let her walk with it, and the news runs it as a good thing. The only people pissed off are us and Nungesser, and obviously nobody gives a shit about him or us.

[–]dungone 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They wouldn't have to wrestle anything away. Just don't let her in. In fact, deny her a diploma. She should have been expelled months ago.

[–]songofrebellion 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It would also feed into her ego and make her feel like a "martyr."

[–]infotheist 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems like this is more evidence that this is the case.

Was HE allowed to protest like this during school events?

I REALLY hope they lose this lawsuit..

[–]skitzokid1189 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

depends on the school.

I had just read Columbia had recently put a ban on "large objects" at graduation. Some people believe it was to prevent her from bringing the mattress

Which by the way is incredibly disrespectful, considering the vindictive nature of it's meaning.

[–]_Harkn_ 34 points35 points36 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Incredibly disrespectful doesn't cut it considering he was cleared of the charges. She should be thrown in jail for the false accusation yet she's allowed to continue dragging this guy's name through the mud at a fucking graduation ceremony no less.

[–]skitzokid1189 18 points19 points20 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

and look what happened to him, he was harassed so badly he couldn't attend classes and could possibly get deported back to europe.

[–]_Harkn_ 22 points23 points24 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I really hope he files slander charges. I know he's already suing the university but he really needs to try take that bitch down too. It's not okay what this has done to his reputation, and yet she's a hero. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? For fucks sake this kid was proven not guilty and he's still not innocent. As a university student things like this just make me angry and quite honestly terrified. I think next time I have casual sex with someone I'm getting written consent complete with a signature, that's honestly what this is coming to.

[–]skitzokid1189 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

but shes totally protected since it's her art piece and it's totally legit ya know? /s

[–]BATKENYAN 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I know im with you. Hes never going to have a normal life after this bullshit. Just because some bitch wanted some attention. Its gonna get to the point where we need a lawyer present when we go on dates. Also there is actually an app for consensual sex, not sure of the name.

[–]Lance_lake 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Also there is actually an app for consensual sex, not sure of the name.

I honestly thought you were kidding.. But nope.. Here it is. Looks like it was shut down though.

http://good2goapp.com/

[–]GoogleOgvorbis 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Any idiot app creator who thinks that an app will stop false rape allegations is crazy.

[–]Koalachan 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

despite a recent change to the Columbia’s Class Day ceremony guidelines prohibiting students from bringing “large objects which could interfere with the proceedings or create discomfort to others in close, crowded spaces.”

[–]Super_BetaMax 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To be honest, I did not read the article since it is Salon.

[–]manofsea 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But any enforcement of those rule would prove sexism and rape culture....

[–]bertreapot 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

a symbol of the burden sexual assault survivors are forced to bear alone...

More like a symbol of defaming an innocent man. I don't know if Nungesser raped Sulkowitz or not, but being that the police declined to press charges should be enough evidence of his innocence. In addition, Nungesser was found 'not responsible' in student court, which is a forum heavily biased against accused students. It's a shame we as a society haven't said "but he won in court. doesn't that mean it's more likely than not that he's innocent?" instead of pandering to a woman who has been less than honest about the whole ordeal.

[–]Lance_lake 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

being that the police declined to press charges should be enough evidence of his innocence

You should really be thinking of it as "There is not enough evidence to prove he is guilty or to even pursue to see if there is". You don't need evidence to consider someone innocent. It's the default state of being.

[–]s7delbag 30 points31 points32 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Enough with this mattress already. If i was the guy i would make a poster of all the texts/emails she sent me after her "rape" saying how much she missed me, and carry that around campus. Hopefully this will be the end of this publicity stunt and i will never have to hear about her again. But I know that will not be the case because these type of people never go away, she will probably write a book, run for office or some other such nonsense and never let it die.

[–]TheRabid 18 points19 points20 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

True. He could make her famous and post it up everywhere so that any Google of her name turns out to be a paragraph on her false accusations and her grandstanding.

[–]victorymonk 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Archived version: https://archive.is/z9PtC

[–]ashlaaaaay 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Too late :(

[–]NotMyTypesType1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Edit: I'm a dummy. I tried to link to a correct archive but totally missed the out of date byline.

Edit 2: Here are some copies citing the original title and link to Salon.

[–]spacedogg 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What a cunt

[–]s1500 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A few years from now they will raise a throw pillow together.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

This is all about milking her fifteen minutes of fame by the second.

She doesn't care about victims of rape no matter how much she pretends to be or how many miles she carts that mattress of hers around.

She's in it to be a martyr.

Unfortunately, once her fifteen minutes of fame is up she's going to be staring dead straight at a subpena to appear in court for the accusations she levied at this innocent man.

[–]RedBeard94 -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I love how, on a thread that is about having the wording changed from "rape" to "alleged rape" you are so fucking sure about this guy being innocent. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But you, and anyone else saying that he is innocent while it is still unclear are just as bad as people who say he absolutely guilty, the people you are currently calling out.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I love how, on a thread that is about having the wording changed from "rape" to "alleged rape" you are so fucking sure about this guy being innocent. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But you, and anyone else saying that he is innocent while it is still unclear are just as bad as people who say he absolutely guilty, the people you are currently calling out.

I'm calling out her and the university for making this man's life a living hell.

What, you don't have a problem with this person dragging the man's reputation through the mud and the university denying him a safe learning environment?

Please do me a favor and shut up.

[–]RedBeard94 -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Just like it is damaging to assume someone is guilty before they have been determined guilty, it is damaging to censor someone who is doing something like this because it might hurt someone. Neither are illegal, but both are damaging. She is not advertising this guys name, she is not actually saying anything about him, she is carrying around a mattress. Yes, she is reminding people of it, but just seeing her carry a mattress is not explicitly calling him out. So while I do have a problem with ruining someone's reputation, there is no reason for me to believe she is doing that. She is calling out a big problem on college campuses, how they deal with rape.

I will not shut up because you are missing the biggest problem that goes along with this, which is the awful way colleges deal with sexual assault, and instead you are focusing on an issue which is much less of a big deal.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just like it is damaging to assume someone is guilty before they have been determined guilty, it is damaging to censor someone who is doing something like this because it might hurt someone.

She IS hurting someone. Are you deaf?

"She is not advertising this guys name, she is not actually saying anything about him, she is carrying around a mattress."

She's going around saying she was still raped and jumping to conclusions through this action. What else would you call it?

"So while I do have a problem with ruining someone's reputation, there is no reason for me to believe she is doing that."

Um, the university made it hard for this man to receive the education he paid for because of this girl's accusation. It's unbeliveable you continue to ignore this little fact.

"She is calling out a big problem on college campuses, how they deal with rape."

Oh fucking spare me. Please!

When a man can get his reputation ruined and his education compromised due to an accusation with no substantial evidence, I hardly call that having a problem dealing with rape on campus.

"I will not shut up because you are missing the biggest problem that goes along with this, which is the awful way colleges deal with sexual assault, and instead you are focusing on an issue which is much less of a big deal."

And you have got to be a major troll believing that false rape accusations aren't a big deal.

Trying to deal with rape doesn't mean ruining an innocent man's life. You're obviously in favor of the latter since you seem to gloss over the fact that this man's education was compromised.

By the way, did you see the e-mails between them. Yeah, the girl must really hate him to continue the relationship for months after this so-called "Rape" and asking for anal sex.

[–]Flareprime 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't

Go look up the story, yes he is.

[–]RedBeard94 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's likely he is, that still doesn't mean he necessarily is. The truth could be somewhere in between the two stories. I have followed the story, and I still don't think anyone can say with certainty either way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The truth could be somewhere in between the two stories.

If the fact that she continued seeing him for months after this "Rape" and asked for anal sex isn't enough to convince you that this whole thing was such a farce then you clearly don't get it.

[–]RedBeard94 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Asking for a particular kind of sex does not indicate lack of rape. Ever. Also, the emotions after rape can be really complicated and taking logical steps like not seeing someone after they rape you might not be a logical thing in the direct aftermath of rape. Neither of those things prove his innocence. Other facts in the case suggest it, but neither of these facts does anything to prove, or disprove, any innocence.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You really are reaching at this point.

Forget it. You've made up your mind.

[–]RedBeard94 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So making a point that would hold up in court is reaching?

I have made up my mind, and I have also determined that this sub is less about making sure men have rights and is more about combatting feminism in any and all ways possible.

[–]nekkid_and_famous 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't help but think that this kind of protest isn't healthy for her recovery. If she was raped, carrying around a reminder of that event all year and putting it in a spotlight, no matter how "important" it might be in a grander cultural context, isn't helping her get past it and move on.

[–]NibblyPig 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm gonna be soooo annoyed if there isn't some justice surrounding this incident.

[–]SilencingNarrative 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The comments section on the ariticle was owned by people who think she is lying. It was very heartening to read.

[–]throwaway136529 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Am I the only one who doesn't understand what OP is talking about? The article never mentions that she WAS raped, jut that she allegedly was.

[–]talones 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Apparently it didnt say Alleged. They added it without noting it.

[+]throwaway136529 -6 points-5 points-4 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I read the article again. In no place does it say that

[–]MisterDamage 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That's because they changed it

[–]throwaway136529 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Wait really? Is there a snapshot of the before version by any chance?

[–]Not_An_Ambulance 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

okay people... we don't downvote people once they stop being dense, and start asking legitimate questions.

And, look through the comments further. There are a couple archived citations to it.

[–]throwaway136529 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks I'll look into it

[–]talones 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Thats what I meant by not noting it. They edited the article. All the snapshots I found were after the change.

[–]throwaway136529 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok, but then how do I know that they actually did assume rape? I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here.

[–]talones 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, I'm just going by the comments in here. They posted a story titled "Rape Survivor". That is pretty clear what they believe. And changing it after the fact without an editors note makes it seem like it wasn't an accident.

[–]throwaway136529 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hmm. That's really strange. Either they fucked up bad and didn't want anyone to know or they just forgot to put one I guess.

[–]NixonForBreadsident 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Which is why Talones specifically just said "They added it without noting it".

http://np.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/36iehu/dear_salon_alleged_rape_does_not_equal_rape_i/cred0f9

[–]throwaway136529 -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Okok gotcha

[–]Doulich -4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

THAT'S WHY THEY FUCKING WROTE ALLEGED RAPE am I on drugs right now?

[–]fingerboxes 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The article was originally published without the word 'alledged' anywhere in it.

[–]Doulich -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So you've convinced Salon to change their viewpoint?

[–]fingerboxes 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not op. Just passing along what has been discussed elsewhere in the comments.

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