She wants alimony and CS:Update

Drjaydvm · 2022-12-04T05:10:23+00:00

Sweet Jesus talk to your lawyer, only give her what she is legally entitled to. She is no longer your problem, she's a big girl and will need to figure it out for herself. Think to yourself what she would do for you if the tables were reversed? I'm guessing nothing....

FunkyTownMascot · 2022-12-04T05:59:10+00:00

Yes, you're being a sucker and an idiot for her tears. Most men do and I did, too. Don't do it. Tell her you'll assume the house and kids and she can get an apartment.

Otherwise, force the sale of the house, split the equity, and you both move on.

DO NOT fall into the crocodile tears trap. In 6 months she'll be on her feet and looking to grab more from you and she won't stop. Your good gestures today will mean nothing when she doesn't need you anymore. Look at the situation already.

Goddamn.

Grand-Expression-493 · 2022-12-04T03:40:11+00:00

I am turning on notifications and heating a bag of pop corn for responses to this post 😁

dday_throwaway3 · 2022-12-04T12:06:49+00:00

> this lead me to think that perhaps she can stay in the house, and I will pay the mortgage, and give her money for the kids

You haven't thought this through. One of the primary benefits of divorce is severing all financial entanglements. Her living in the house that is in your name only opens up all sorts of issues around maintenance. You expert her to upkeep the house when she's living in it, and she won't. I've worked with hundreds of men going through divorce, and the worst nightmare stories are those who let their ex do exactly this. One guy was trying to evict his ex five years after his divorce was final and getting nowhere.

> She mentioned she qualifies for

She isn't some overnight legal expert. Rule #1 of this forum: Do not take legal advice from your STBWX. Talk to your attorney, not her.

> She pointed out that theres no way she could qualify for a refi on the house, and that she likely wont be able to put the title in her name.

Not your problem. You being her white knight was a perk of marriage, and marriage is over. She's a grown ass adult and can figure out this shit by herself. If neither of you can agree who keeps the house and who pays the other their equity share, then a judge will order is sold and the proceeds split.

sicrm · 2022-12-04T05:22:40+00:00

force a sale of the house or buy her out.

you’re offering good faith solutions. those only have a shot of working in an amicable divorce which this clearly isn’t.

Gattsama · 2022-12-04T12:26:18+00:00

Sent you a DM. So ultimately you can do whatever you want. But understand that if try to negotiate child support, she can refile to raise that to the sate calculator at anytime. Don't know your situation but the house equity (and debt) is to be split 50/50. The house has two parts: title and mortgage. The title can be changed at the court house with a few signatures and a fee. The mortgage can only be changed with a new loan.

She can either refinance or get an assumption loan. A refinance is a new loan that she has to apply for and be approved for. There will be a new interest rate, and the term is set in the loan (normally 30yrs). Closing costs can be rolled into the loan if you choose. You can also request that additional money based on the equity in the home be including in the new loan.

An assumption loan is a new loan, she has to apply and be approved. This assumes the current loan interest rate and time paid. Closing costs have to paid at the time of loan approval. So if you paid for 10 years on a 30, you get to keep your time paid. You can NOT request equity in the home be including in the new loan (you are assuming the old one) but can apply for a HELOC at the same time or after.

An assumption loan changes the name on the mortgage and nothing more. BUT you of course have to pay the bank closing costs and you have to be approved.

You two can work out any deal you want, and the courts will normally sign off. You can offer her 99% of your income and the courts will sign off. But what most here, myself included, recommend is to not give her anything that you are not legally required to give. IF you want to help her above your legal requirements, consider getting the minimum required by law, and then can gift her the extra after the divorce when and if you choose. But making it part of the final decree means you are locked into it. And that means you can't down grade your life, income, work, etc because you owe her. You work for her.

So here's how it works. You need to make a spreadsheet of all assets, debts and expenses. 50% of all assets (including any retirement accounts that existed during the marriage) are hers. 50% of all debts that were created during the marriage are hers too. Add that up and you get a number. Do not know your income or hers, but if she hasn't worked or you make more than her, alimony is on the table. This varies a lot from state to state. CA is she hasn't worked at all and you've been married > 10 years life long alimony is possible. In WA she gets 1 year for every 3-4 years of marriage.

You give her nothing! You final out the total number for assets & debts at a 50/50 split, calculate what spousal support is in your state, calculate what child support _IS_ in your state (you can't negotiate child support). And that gives you a total package. IF she wants to keep the house, she needs a new mortgage to get your name off it. If she doesn't qualify then the house gets sold and you split the equity 50/50.

IF you want to give her more that's fine, its your life. If she wants to accept less, that's also fine as it her life. BUT if you want to give her less than 50/50 + alimony + CS; you can't do that unless she agrees. And if she wants MORE than 50/50 + alimony + CS she doesn't get that unless you agree. Again you guys can agree to nearly anything and the court will sign off. But 16 years of marriage? Unless you make equal money she qualifies for alimony, and if she wants it she will get it. Best you can do if that's the case is to negotiate to keep the amount & length low, trade it for other assets (eg give her more equity in the home or take on more debt) or buy her out.

You should take to an attorney in your area, even if you do mediation and work everything out; it's good to have a better understanding of what a typical case in your area would result in. So you know where you are negotiating from. ALSO child custody and residency are linked to child support. Normally the state uses number of midnight's to determine who had the kids that day. So you can get 50% custody, but only see them 4 midnight's a month (every other weekend). IF able you also want 50/50 residency (work and time permitting).

There are lot of pieces, and believe us most women if they think you are 'taking advantage' of them will lawyer up, which will cost you. So figure out what the rules are in your state for your situation, put together a best case / average case / worst case scenario; and negotiate from there. Just be transparent, open and honest; with luck she will do the same. IF she lawyers up, STOP TALKING, get your own lawyer (which hopefully you had on the back burner anyway) and then fight for the absolute minimum required by law. And if that means selling the house, splitting the jewelry, she cries, etc. it doesn't matter; because once you start down that road the system is the system. Fair has nothing to do with it. Love has nothing to do with it. 16 years together has nothing to do with it. She becomes your enemy and you need to fight. And yeah that sucks.

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[ASIDE]

Was married for 12 years, no kids, she didn't work (I was simping hard). I filed Feb '22. I told her that it's a 50/50 split of everything (but I left a lot of stuff off the table; eg jewelry it seemed petty to bring up and they were gifts) + spousal support (I offered the max). I didn't want the house and she couldn't afford it. IF there was a way to leave her in the house I would have taken it, I offered at first to keep paying the mortgage, utilis and taxes (but as a credit against support) and once it was paid off she could stay as long as he likes (die there even) but when/if she ever wants to move we can sell then and split everything 50/50. She said no, she didn't want to stay in 'my/our' house, or track me down years later when I'm in a new relationship to give me 1/2 the money. I said ok fair, lets plan to list the house end of May, it'll sell in 1-2 weeks, we close 30 days later, so you would be out like end of July. This is Feb so she would have 5+ months to prepare. She was devastated, said I was trying to force her out and get the divorce done as quickly as possible because I gave up on us. I explained that no, the market is going to collapse sometime during or after the summer. This is the hottest market we are going to see for years, escalation clauses are common and homes are selling for record highs, we need to move sooner rather than later, inflation is going crazy and interest rates are going to do the same.

Long story short she refused mediation, lawyer-ed up, and wasted HUGE amounts of money. Divorce was just finalized 11/14 and we just closed on the house 12/2. She wasted about $400k of potential wealth. She cost herself ~$200-250k from my original offer back in Feb; and cost me ~$100-125k.

Now most of that is because the housing market dropped like a rock. But she also ran up huge legal fees, created new debt, etc. And in the end she got the EXACT SAME DEAL: 50/50 split + spousal support. Only now far less spousal support, the house sold for ~10-16% less and she had all this new expenses to pay off.

That's with no kids! This shit can go sideways super fast and waste huge amounts of money if either party is stupid. So talk to an attorney, figure out what's the most probably outcome if you go to court; offer her something slightly below that OR go to mediation and have a neutral third party guide you both to that number/deal.

TheRealDrWan · 2022-12-04T05:50:45+00:00

Only agree to give her what is required by the court.

This is now a business transaction.

Dakeddit · 2022-12-04T05:23:25+00:00

She's not your problem anymore. Did she divorce you or vice versa?

Small_Quarter_3673 · 2022-12-04T10:41:41+00:00

Looks like you got a bunch of advice on the last post. Think of it this way if you save her now what will you get out it? Try and negotiate some don't just go and save her. She can't have her cake and eat it too multiple times over. She could have been dissent and you would not get divorced and your kid could have both parents. As many others have said stay the course and let her figure her own stuff out

captainchippsixx · 2022-12-04T15:13:35+00:00

Keep in mind (based on what you posted) there is a high chance she is fing around or has plans to with an emotional partner. You need to steel yourself and remember that. Women don’t divorce without a plan.

samk002001 · 2022-12-04T16:07:57+00:00

My brother, you need to step out of Captain Save-a-hoe suite and see the reality! She’s not your problem anymore, and you’d already saved her once, when you married her. You owe her nothing beside of what the court says, and you will only gonna give her exactly that! Good luck

playerknowmore · 2022-12-04T16:40:56+00:00

120k does not afford you the charity the charity she is asking of you. She knows you love her and she is manipulating that to her advantage. I make about thirty grand more than you and my wife makes about fifty grand less. I live in New Jersey; when the lawyer did child support calculator it was nearly thirty percent of my income.

It would be hard for us to afford New Jersey after divorce. My wife asked for more but I was already looking at a two bedroom apartment. I couldn't afford to give her more. She did a one eighty and we put divorce on hold. I'm starting to feel that was a mistake on my part. I don't even want another woman; I just want peace. I just can't see how we can afford my daughters tuition at Princeton if our money is separated.

2022-12-04T20:43:36+00:00

Sell the house. Stop trying to figure out how to take care of her. The state formula on CS is enough to pay all her living expenses, you’re already going to be paying so much. Do not give her anything that she’s not legally entitled to.

FunkyTownMascot · 2022-12-04T05:11:03+00:00

You need to be asking a lawyer this, not reddit.

whatamoniker1 · 2022-12-04T17:15:25+00:00

Edit: she doesnt have a boyfriend, at least not that I'm aware of (she might, and that could be why were here in the first place). I was merely saying when she inevitably moves on with some other dude.

Also, when I said future investments, i didnt mean on that same property. I wanted to use the equity to purchase more property.

I wanted to clarify those points. Thanks for all of your feedback amd insight. I have been trying to contact lawyers for consultations, but most of the good ones arent working until after the holidays. Must be nice to take months off at a time, right?

jimsmythee · 2022-12-04T07:28:35+00:00

You need to lawyer up and only give her what the judge tells you too. Otherwise you’ll spend the rest of your life supporting her.

1Cobbler · 2022-12-04T08:14:56+00:00

"and if she moves out and on with her new BF"

I'd give her the absolute bare minimum I need to. If there's another bloke that fucker should pay for her.

Small-University-875 · 2022-12-04T10:36:59+00:00

I know it's not easy to drop your emotions for her, I just went through the same motions. But the reality of the situation is you need to mentally and emotionally detach from her. She's no longer your wife, hell you said she has a boyfriend already and it sounds like you're still in the divorce process?

Women have this sense of entitlement and think they can use their emotions to get what they think the deserve. Don't feed into that BS, it sounds like you've worked hard and have put yourself and your family into a good financial position. If she's leaving you, then she is leaving your finances too.

You were married a lot longer than I was, so certain things like alimony I don't think my ex could even consider trying to get simply because we were together long enough. Your ex may have her legal entitlements (I personally think that's all BS, but it is what it is). I would give her nothing more than that.

captainchippsixx · 2022-12-04T15:09:16+00:00

Does your state require spousal maintenance (alimony)? Follow the state requirements and then negotiate. If you can protect your retirement…..

playerknowmore · 2022-12-04T16:14:20+00:00

Hold on! Are you asking us should subsidize her and her boyfriend, so they can live in your home? If she was leaving and raising your children alone is one thing, but she won't be alone. Why in the hell would you afford two grownups the lifestyle you provide for your family.

It's not your fault she didn't cheat up. Say you agree to this; what happens when you meet someone. Why does she deserve the lifestyle your wife's boyfriend can afford? Your Ex and her boyfriend need to get better jobs. Please tell me that you are in a place that limits spousal support to three years. It's amazing that people think they can leave you, but your money stays.

Theedon · 2022-12-04T16:49:26+00:00

You need someone else to come in and look at this from a business perspective. It sounds like you are letting feelings get in the way and are also worried a out getting screwed. Most definitely get a lawyer due to her statement about coming after your retirement. My lawyer was the first person to ever label my EX as a "Cunt" because she was trying to fuck me over and not be reasonable.

DontTasteTheSoap · 2022-12-04T20:41:15+00:00

Don’t be a SIMP!

No-Exit6560 · 2022-12-04T21:03:25+00:00

Talk to a lawyer!

Stop negotiating with her and don’t put anything in writing.

If she talks to a lawyer first, you’re cooked mate.

Your lawyer is going to tell you to get a written parenting plan in place, and possibly mediation(with them present) as a first step.

It’s like you’re trying to play poker without knowing the rules or what cards your holding.

derelictherds · 2022-12-04T23:10:44+00:00

Do you have a lawyer? Apologies if you've already answered.

PoppinPMAGs · 2022-12-05T12:41:04+00:00

Is there anyway to get a judge to force the sale of a home? I'm in a situation where she filed, but wanted me out. She wants to keep the house, but can't afford to pay CS or Maintenance because of needing to refi. While she could cash out her retirement or something stupid to stay there and buy out my house, it'd leave her cash-strapped monthly to pay CS/Maintenance.

Title	She wants alimony and CS:Update
Author	whatamoniker1
Upvotes	13
Comments	42
Date	December 4, 2022 3:24 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/zbz4kq/she_wants_alimony_and_csupdate/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/she-wants-alimony-and-csupdate.1143020 https://theredarchive.com/post/1143020