Trying to understand what is so appealing about RP to men and if some men are more susceptible to it

HistoricalZombie4799 · 2022-04-27T10:27:21+00:00

I came out of an emotionaly abusive relationship, in the light of the red pill it all made sense. Love became more of a power game, applying the techniques worked well. So i got conformation bias. Ended up in a relationship, but this time i turned out to be very selfish. I became the person i hated the most.

Red_Trapezoid · 2022-04-27T10:09:09+00:00

I think there are quite a multitude of factors at play. I think a lot of it stems from, at least for some, from possibly being rejected a lot, bullied and/or repeatedly humiliated in highschool. Trauma that cuts deep at a very vulnerable point in a person's life that they carry with them and never process properly because men and boys are often socialized not to do that. They're just supposed to "man up" and "get over it".

I'm in my 30's, and when I was a teenager if you were a virgin and/or didn't have a girlfriend you were considered an absolute loser by your peers. Not even a man. You would also get a lot of homophobic abuse thrown at you. It was rough. From girls too! And abuse like that from girls, especially girls you found attractive, hurts different.

A culture of male entitlement also plays a role, again, I feel I need to bring up how poorly socialized so many men are. I was never taught how to communicate or process my feelings in a healthy way. I was never taught that men could be the victims of abuse by women. And abused I was by quite a few women.

RP offers a very simple, easy view of men and women. And even if it's wrong it feels safe, like it's cynical and stupid but you "know how it is" and "how women are" so "you know what to expect". You also get to feel like you are part of a special club that has special knowledge that other people don't. Knowledge which just so happens to confirm your worst fears and insecurities as a man.

Tons of men find themselves totally alone in adulthood due to work and whatnot so it's easy for them to fall into such echo chambers. There are so many men who just don't have any friends. Nobody around them to give them a reality check.

In summary, trauma, abuse, entitlement, isolation, abysmal social and emotional development, terrible communication skills, rigid binary gender roles. There's probably more stuff but I heard this somewhere else, "We abuse boys until they become men." and it's absolutely true. At our core, men and women are far more similar than different. The difference is all culture, expected gender roles and social conditioning. I can only describe my experience as a boy and teenager as an absolute nightmare. It is not the way we should prepare boys for adulthood and being how it is I am not surprised that so many men behave like dogshit or as monsters and fall into ugly ideologies like RP.

Volleyballer_939 · 2022-04-27T08:44:33+00:00

Emotions don't make sense and can't be rationalised and fit into a box. These guys feel backed into a corner without options, no one wants them, nobody cares and that was BEFORE they joined TRP. It's easy to hate who or what you want the most to place the responsibility for your suffering on an external force.

TRP is not appealing to men, it is just a convenient philosophy for people who have failed repeatedly to get women interested for whatever reason and decided to give up. It's hard to realise you are not an appealing option or that you've worked hard at improving and you are still not enough for an average woman.

Men who turn redpill aren't thinking about women's problems, they see people who get approached all the time and get wined and dined and taken care of and think those women have it easy. They think women don't need to fear danger as modern law has good protection (true or not).

And the men who are angry at women with "better options and the ability to take care of themselves", are really angry because they can't live up to modern standards for male attractiveness so they make their ideal unattainable to cope with the fact they will never be good enough. True or not life is not fair and the sooner people realise that they can go easier on themselves.

Edit: at a deeper level men who resort to this philosophy in the "manosphere" are broad and different in background. No matter what it's the same result: poor relationships. But they think they wouldn't get one anyway even if they were nice people. Who are TRP men? Mostly insecure guys who have had a bad experience in dating.

Snoo52682 · 2022-04-27T12:10:53+00:00

The best answer I've heard is that it's not even RP so much, but that men have very few other social-support groups. Women have closer friends and we expect/are allowed to open up more with casual acquaintances, ask and offer social support.

Same way cults and terrorist organizations work ... find the lonely people, give them a community, then the ideology takes over. But at that point, leaving the belief system would mean leaving the only people who understand you, so ...

Thing is, men gotta solve this one themselves. There isn't much women can do about it.

lawrieee · 2022-04-27T08:48:25+00:00

I think you mostly get it already. I think one of the big issues that drives so much hate is there's not much acknowledgement in feminism that being a guy at the bottom of society is probably worse. Not only does it suck but you're also told that you're privileged and you must be the biggest loser to end up in last place while having all the advantages. There's no way a message like that is going to be taken on the chin. Given that feminism is actively alienating, it's not surprising a counter culture developed.

I've seen a few theories about how ethnic minorities have lower suicide rates and it's supposed to be because they get to tell themselves it's not their fault their life is difficult. Apparently it was a similar thing in the feudal era, where peasants weren't depressed about their lot in life because they weren't responsible for it.

You'd have to be incredibly stoic to have your life story as "I have it easier than half the population, yet due to my own faults I've ended up in last place". Compare that to the RP narrative and you tell me which you'd pick.

trilobright · 2022-04-27T15:53:33+00:00

Lonely, bitter women definitely exist.. Some FDS posters are being satirical, but a lot of them are 100% sincere about feeling entitled to a "HVM".

OddPreparation3247 · 2022-04-27T19:53:38+00:00

New to Reddit. Male in his 30s. Long time lurker. This is my first post here so I don't know if anybody will see it or care. Everyone is different but maybe my story will help someone understand this. Sorry for wall of text. Do with it what you will.

Up till about age 26 I was at the bottom. Small-town trash in a big city, jobless, trouble finishing my studies, needed help from my not-that-well-off family and depressed to the point of constant and intrusive suicide ideation (basically imagining my death allowed me to function somehow). Father died when I was a child. Felt not deserving of help and useless. Romantically unsuccessful, touchless virgin but had many friends, thank gods. School and uni felt like I was split in two. I was very social, I liked people, partied a lot, laughed. And yet I felt always outside of human society. Like a clown - funny but repulsive, a bit off. I liked women and had many female friends. Met my fiancee and felt more lonely than ever. I loved her but felt inadequate. Thinking of her now she was a big drain on emotions and energy. Constant need of reassurance, accusations of cheating, ferocious fights that lasted many days and nights. I remember I was exhausted and tired all the time. She broke up to pursue career, did not blame or keep her down. Became even bigger human wreck. She went on with her life, ended up better than me all across the board, found another guy and got married, got her spiritual awakening. Could not talk about our relationship because everyone said that it was my fault and that everybody knew she was like that and so should I. Another few years of loneliness. Friends started getting married. As for me: started to go to therapy but eventually had no money to continue. Family doctor prescribed me some antidepressants but they muddled my mind. Could not keep a job or study. Told myself, fuck that!, and dropped them. Started supplementing magnesium and such. Started working out out of despair. It helped me immensely. Could function again. Read some PUA stuff to maybe get better with women, and found it repulsive. But it stuck in my head. Some patterns were there and there was a thought in my mind: if women want these things from a man (assertiveness, confidence, a bit of aggression), then I am no match. Then maybe I dont like women after all if I am so invisible to them? But then, why is my self worth bound to their approval. It simmered in my head, not fully conscious thought, but a feeling. I was left-wing and respected women in my family and my friends. I liked and loved them. Could it be that they secretly think so low of me because I have problems so deep? What right do they (society) have to judge me? Especially when I tried on and on to get up and fight?

And then I found a job. It was in an NGO. I was quite good at it. No experience, but made it through. Realized I was not that hopeless. I could give something back and I did. Then I got involved with another woman. Moved to another city for her but being 2012 it was very hard to find a job. Moved too quickly and fell in love too deep (after 4 years of touch-starved loneliness). Ended up isolated. She talked to my friends and made me quite a reputation. Suddenly I was an alcoholic and depressive. Suppose the second one was true, but I really thought I was out of the woods back then. She claimed I lied to her and Im not really sure now. And then I realized there is no escape. I was damaged and should not get involved with any woman until I was healthy - so effectively never.

Longed to enter human society. Watched other people being happy and successful. I wanted that so much but knew I should not drag down any woman into my grim life. So I isolated more from them. And the more I isolated the more they disliked me. Years flew by, got into a new job and after some time was one of the best in my office (still am). Being able to become the man that fixes things helped me. Being the guy that solved something with a single line of code in 15 minutes. That feels amazing. Being sent to an enraged client alone and solving all the issues in one shot - well, that was something. I am proud of my job and what I do. Met a woman, after some time went to therapy... and one day algorithm recommended an article on incels. Got curious, Googled, opened Reddit's incel board and suddenly... I was in.

It all made sense. It clicked. I was not crazy. I had experienced first hand most of those things they were talking about. I was not tall but all my tall male friends were already married with children with loving wives that helped them through unemployment and depression. I was not good looking and my good looking male friends could literally lie down in bed all day and be loved and respected by women. I remember my first dive into that board. Mind you, it was in 2016, the Year of the Algorithm :). I was a grown up man with a good job and a girlfriend - a man who pulled himself out of despair and loneliness, confident in my strengths, fearless, nerves of steel, stress-resistant, and... I had no chance. I was the target audience and it crawled into my brain to stay.

Tried to throw it out of my mind but it was stronger. Read more content, especially MGTOW and blackpill. Then I wanted to escape and went on feminist boards combing them for posts about the manosphere, looking for answers, for cure, that it was all BS and the world is somehow good. But all I found were platitudes. Women smugly talking about their hard lives despite getting love and affection and how I am entitled and pampered my whole life. I felt like a child. Realized that an average woman had better life than I could ever dream of. She has more experience than me, is smarter and has more options: I am totally defenseless in a relationship. It made sense why no woman I was with loved or respected me - I was not tall enough and it showed :) Got angry, because everything I read from feminists felt like I am not a human being with hopes, dreams and emotions. I was a LVM. Then my GF told me about her ex, who was literally 6'7, blonde and blue eyed - my complete opposite. We drifted apart. She is a good person, we hang out now quite often, have sex regularly, support each other. You see, I am a grown man with a good job, friends and a FWB situation, on good terms with my ex and other women in my life, 5'11 (cause apparently it matters :) ), yet I feel like a LVM. I still feel outside society where women and tall, rich and powerful men are having a blast while men like me carry the dance floor on our bent backs. Nobody knows about those feelings, I veil my cynicism with humor quite effectively, I think.

So understand... It can happen to anyone. Red/BlackPill is constructed so that it finds a soft spot in your soul and bites into it. You know, I was the same as you years ago, reading RedPill shit and thinking that this is dehumanising BS, being disgusted on my high horse. I am still a staunch lefty, I marched against ban on abortion, wrote articles etc. I know perfectly that RP and BlackP are all against my deepest moral convictions. And yet...

So don't dismiss it. We are against best marketing tactics here. The machine learned perfectly how to catch us. You may think, that I had my problems and this is why they got me. But be frank with yourself: is your armor chinkless? Are you high value enough to diagnose us so quickly? It is easy to feel compassion for a child or a woman. But do you have it in you to see a human in an ugly, low value, crusty, depressed, jobless and angry Indian janitor? Red/Black-pillers have no power, despite what you have been told. They say and write atrocious things for some random woman to think of them just once - they are that desperate. Every outrageous post is them saying: "You think you know what disgusting is? I show you disgusting!" You know, if she hates them and wants them banned/jailed or whatever, she briefly sees a human in them - a disgusting one, but hey, beggars can't be choosers :)

Sorry for the ramblings of a psycho :) Take care :)

Valuable_Programmer6 · 2022-04-27T15:32:24+00:00

In my opinion I really do think it is because of the lack of Father figures a lot of people in the red pill have. That's one of the few things I think the right wing is right on. Fathers are very important and absent fathers do have a negative effect especially on boys boys without father figures are going to naturally find someone else that'll act as a father to them. And sometimes that is either, crime lord's, gang leaders or the red pill.

honey-bundy-88 · 2022-04-27T17:22:20+00:00

This guy does a really good job of breaking modern male dating struggles. It really opened my eyes. A lot of men lack proper instructions in dating. We use general platitudes like “be confident, be yourself, don’t be a creep” without giving them the proper tools or context to apply these things. And while most people can see these RPs for what they are (cringe), for a lot of guys there are no other options. They offer a step-by-step guide for success. There’s comfort in knowing what your chances of success are. But life is more complex than that. They take an all or nothing stance that ultimately leads to bitterness and resentment on both sides.

Training_Passenger79 · 2022-04-27T19:27:52+00:00

In going along with what another commenter said, I think (as a woman, trying to relate) that it has a lot to do with the way culture currently raises young boys.

I watched a documentary that I thought was very good, and apparently the MRA hates, called the mask we live in…and it made a lot of sense because I’ve spoken to men that shared those sentiments, and I saw my brother go through it too.

The bulk of the system is men bullying, humiliating, and shaming each other. Then there are undersocialized women who drive the lesson home to these boys, and parents who shame, threaten, typify, and neglect their male children’s emotions.

You then take this boy who has been repeatedly tormented by society, and once he has become hardened to it, tell him it’s time to start playing nice, getting along, and having compassion. So you can imagine how frustrated men would feel about these conflicting messages.

As a woman, I had my own problems with my sex role growing up. I was also picked on, bullied, neglected, ignored, typified, and so forth. However, the difference is that I had a couple of female friends to confide my feelings in, and I was encouraged to develop healthy social skills and social coping mechanisms. Girls are encouraged to talk it out. Boys are encouraged to get angry and not talk to anyone, or to lash out.

Our society only recently became like this. It wasn’t like this in my grandparents day. People act like this has been going on for generations, but it really hasn’t. There’s always been bullying, yes, but young boys usually had stable home lives with caring parents (usually mothers and grandmothers) to come home to and process their emotions with.

We lost that when modern industrialization caused the cost of living to rise and necessitated two-income households, and, at the same time, respect for housewives plummeted. Some women had to work to support their families. Others chose to work because they wanted to be respected, have some freedom, and have their own money to spend. (Since, at the time, there was still very much the concept that you were the property of your husband).

Anyways, taking this all into account, I would say it’s also worth considering that many of these boys were raised with the idea that they are supposed to be incredible. They need to be “the best”, to be loved, and being among “the greats” (as one of my deluded friends puts it) is something of a birthright for them.

I think that starts out as a hope or dream in young boys, and turns into something of an entitlement later in life when they feel they aren’t received what they were entitled to, and they are being asked to work themselves to the bone, ceaselessly, and without complaining - for nothing.

When someone gets a hold of you in that state of mind and gives you an enemy to pin the blame on, and they tell you that you’re special, and worth more than your “aggressor”…well that’s attractive.

It would make a person feel empowered, confident, and like the truth to life is very simple.

Of course, it’s all built on lies, so the more they live their life according to that dogma, they more they suffer, and the more they turn to red pill for answers.

It’s a sick, sad, twisted system, and while my compassion is lacking for adult red pill men…I do feel bad for the kids and teens. Young boys who are still trying to develop their empathy and social skills, despite being damaged and mistreated by friends and adults alike, who are now being told that they are victims of the female sex…a sex that hates them, only wants to use them for money, and isn’t capable of loving them. Imagine if you had an 8 year old boy - and that was the crap he was hearing from older boys he looked up to.

That’s the backstory behind many of these men who have become so easy to loathe. I think you can understand them if you put the effort into it…but it’s hard to want to.

They’re kind of like the half-starved and mangey junkyard dog that tries to bite everyone that walks by their backyard…the same dog who has been kicked around and tied on a leash and left outside in the dark and cold no matter the weather. It’s hard to like the dog or remember that the dog is a victim, but a lot of people who were previously victims go on to become the people (or dogs) that victimize others.

It’s the cycle of abuse.

Kappador66 · 2022-04-27T20:09:16+00:00

It is actually very easy. You grow up as a dude, go through puberty and obviously start having sexual fantasies and feelings of attraction towards women.

These feelings are not reciprocated by women. So you start wondering, why are women not attracted to me? What is wrong, what is the problem? They are obviously attracted to other dudes, maybe even some you think are assholes or that bully you.

So what does the modern man do when he was a problem? He goes online to figure out how to solve it. From there it's not hard to find RP content on YouTube etc. And down the rabbit hole you go.

capricorndyke · 2022-04-27T22:10:04+00:00

I watched quite a few of Richard Cooper's content out of curiosity. I understand some of his frustration in the dating world. He was struggling after a divorce/some kind of break up and was a single father. He dated a single mother who would get him to do all these things for her and he did not feel he was appreciated or a priority. He started to stand up for himself but then took it in another direction. He refuses to do anything for women but expects them to serve him. A green flag for a woman was they take care of a man when he is sick. Yet he doesn't do anything to help her out when she is in need because he is not a beta.

While Richard Cooper's content is much more tame compared to other RP's content, it can still get ugly. He states women are fragile and their SMV goes down as they age and have sex with various partners. He would call a woman with a low notch count a 'green flag' but then is encouraging men to persuade women into having sex. He also tries to assert himself as the alpha male and gives destructive advice to men in relationships. He recommended to someone in a call I believe that when his girlfriend asks where he is going to refuse to answer. He even suggested he pack a bag for couple days and just leave. This was all to prove a point he is the alpha. Apparently a good woman would be put in her place and a bad one would be weeded out. While I understand some women can be controlling, anxious, or suspicious, I think there is an adult way of handling things. Running off is like a rebellious teen who cannot express themselves.

He often calls a lot of the men who come for advice an 'askhole'. A person who asks for his advice but doesn't take it, thereby wasting his time. I wonder if he actually helps anyone who has taken his advice. I think the RP community could be something great, but it takes a very dark turn.

SithQueenGigi · 2022-05-01T02:52:24+00:00

The more damaged, narcissistic, sociopathic a man is he will be more susceptible to the dangers of RP which is sad If anything he needs advice from men who have been thru a male support group in real life , or seek a professional if anything those groups are being targeted at young men which is a huge problem there was a story about a 12 yo watching MGTOW videos like that's crazy that poor kid will have a rough time, kids at that age are growing up so fast they know so much more than I did at that age so them accessing this content is scary.

Technusgirl · 2022-04-27T09:17:04+00:00

A sense of entitlement imo. They feel entitled to have a girlfriend and get angry and lash out at women when they don't get what they want. It's also black and white thinking. I think many of these guys either have a personality disorder or many of the traits of a personality disorder. I see it a lot on the subreddit where guys just can't seem to break out of the "women bad" mindset when trying to overcome the red pill brainwashing.

odd_cloud · 2022-04-27T11:49:21+00:00

In short, red pill men find that red pill ideas correspond to their experience and observations of other people. They are not people successful in dating who just like to invent strange theories as a hobby.

I think everyone starts with understanding that people like each other somewhat randomly and there is somewhat equal chance of success. This understanding stays with them if they can just date without much effort. But if a guy experiences difficulties, he starts to think about how dating works. It’s natural for people to start thinking if they don’t have any result. Red pill just offers a somewhat structured view on dating.

If you don’t have results, it’s important for you to understand many questions. Why? Are you alone, is it normal? What is my place in the dating game?

I think many red pillers come to similar ideas before they actually find red pill. As for me, I started to suspect something in school.

I’d specify that I refer to “core” concepts like 80/20. Some people make sick conclusions on the basis of these concepts, but it depends on the sickness of the personality. I mean those ideas about redistribution and other nonsense.

I see you don’t like the concepts of red pill. But can I ask you how does dating work in your opinion? What is a “healthy” description?

onenightstanduhoes · 2022-04-27T15:55:28+00:00

I see it as the desperate jobless that turns to socialism, they aren’t winning and see other people perform better, therefore it should be a group (feminism/oligarch) that keep them from wealth/sex

Carloverguy20 · 2022-04-27T22:26:17+00:00

I can see why it's appealing to to men,

Lets say that you are an awkward nerd growing up, unloved by many, girls rejected you, guys made fun of you, called you ugly, creep, weird, lame, nice guy, loser, virgin, so these men develop issues, and then they turn to the internet as a source of comfort, therapy, safety.

One day the boy types in, "how come I can't get a girlfriend", lots of videos pops up, and then one day, a video talking about "how to score with women pops up" and he watches it, and then the algorithim picks up on in and recommends him more videos about "redpill, female nature, modern women" and then he starts to get radicalized by it.

I never was fully into RP, but I watched one video and then the algorithim spawned mulitple videos about redpill and dating. I remember using redpill lingo such as "chad, beta male" "scoring a plate". I stopped following the content, because it was just a carbon-copy of each other, spouting false facts, and major problematic stuff.

Lots of these men are deeply traumatized, and need therapy, love and compassion. There are some men that can not be helped, because they are hateful, filled with rage, and psychos who don't want to be helped. They also need to learn that not every woman is an evil she-demon who wants to eradicate the presence of man. They get false data and information, and they also lack social skills and experience with talking to other women as normal people, they only think that women were made for sexual stuff.

Superfluous_Toast · 2022-04-28T04:10:02+00:00

A lot of men believe their worth comes from how many women have slept with them.

When you see women not as autonomous people with their own wants and needs, but instead as arbiters of worthiness not doing their "job" it makes a lot more sense.

They think women are denying them personhood and bestowing it upon less worthy men.

tehWoodcock · 2022-04-29T01:13:47+00:00

I never did like red pill or the people behind it. But damn, at least they were willing to admit there were problems with the current paradigm of dating and romance. At least they were willing to point out some of the hypocrisy and repulsiveness of a lot of women these days. Even now, I still hold true to that attitude. I hate the red pill and what it stands for, but goddamn are there a lot of nasty, shrill stupid women out there no matter the age, who will treat you like you're less than human for vapid reasons, and people praise them like they're singing religious chants.

If I found someone who I thought was amazing and she turned out to have a bit of a past like that or was even a bit loose before and now wants to settle down with someone stable she's typically not used to, I would be one hundred justified in feeling some red flags. Yet, a lot of left wing/blue pill types will come down on you HARD for daring to criticize them, common sense be damned. These women and their apologists can't be trusted, and a lot of them are fucking flat out predators. And I want to avoid them. Red pill won't get me out of it, but at the very least it will keep me from these types.

Successful-Side8902 · 2023-04-21T08:14:55+00:00

Williamson is a horrible sexist. His misogyny is so deeply ingrained, he's oblivious to it. He's well spoken though, but he's very ignorant. He memorized statistics and spews them to sound smart. Then he creates his own conclusions based on these stupid parameters, and that's his scientific method. He never assigns the same statistical parameters to men and women either. He's awful.

Title	Trying to understand what is so appealing about RP to men and if some men are more susceptible to it
Author	Tall_Memory_645
Upvotes	43
Comments	112
Date	April 27, 2022 7:49 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/ucy8n1/trying_to_understand_what_is_so_appealing_about/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/trying-to-understand-what-is-so-appealing-about-rp.1113231 https://theredarchive.com/post/1113231

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