Does anyone else have to hold their tongue around their friends when they talk about dating?

sj5876 · 2021-04-14T00:33:29+00:00

I have had a hard time maintaining close relationships with a lot my friends after finding fds and adopting a "take no bs" attitude towards men. Many women don't want to hear your true opinion. They want you to nod and smile to help them justify their boyfriend/husband's behavior. I remember fishing for that kind of reassurance and lying about my (now ex) husband's mistreatment of me. Its embarrassing to be treated badly by your spouse. The most effective method I've found is asking questions, repeating what they say back out loud to them, and being open to listening. Giving my opinion if asked. Sometimes they'll come to their own revelations just having an opportunity to talk it through outloud, without me having to tell them I think their boyfriend/husband is a lvm.

ariadn3-268 · 2021-04-14T00:27:09+00:00

I'm also going through this, with a friend who keeps taking her LV "on-and-off" ex back again. The three of us used to be good friends during school, but since graduation he's shown his true colors as an entitled trust fund baby who dumps her every time he leaves our city (which is extremely often because he is flighty, indecisive, and privileged enough to afford breaking leases and relocating multiple times a year). And yet, every time he moves back here, she lets him move into her apartment rent-free, even though he could easily dig into his trust fund to rent his own place.

It's always challenging -- I feel like I'm toeing the line between calling his behavior out so she knows she deserves better, and being nice about it so she doesn't take my criticism of him personally and think I'm being a b!tchy friend to her. (She has sometimes ghosted me after I've said something too harsh about him.) I always thought it was the right thing to do to speak out because I hated seeing her get hurt, but to be honest, I'm getting tired of the continued drama so I recently have been disengaging from dating-related conversations at this point. I try to talk more with her about our shared career goals and hobbies, but she's so distracted from them by this on-and-off ex (not to mention, the other men she's rebounding with whenever he's gone) that those conversations are starting to dead-end, too. I can't even remember the last time we talked about any of my emotional problems, it's all very one-sided nowadays.

I think I've come to the realization that being close friends with a pickme is exhausting and, frankly, might not even be worth it at some point. I would definitely never grit my teeth and feign enthusiasm for LV men -- if this friendship required that, I'd be out already.

FeelLikeRollinDice · 2021-04-14T01:22:29+00:00

You got to let people live their own lives. While your intentions may be good, people do not want unsolicited advice, especially about relationships. The friendship is often irreparable or at best, distant after that. You can have your standards and they can have theirs.

Ex: I have a friend who has been with her man for 8 years. They do not live together, have sex, or sleep over at each other's house. While they do not have sex or live together, she definitely does a lot of wife duties. She thinks he will eventually marry her. I doubt he will. I also do not know any man in his early 40s that can be celibate for 8 years in a relationship without there being something very off. Do I voice any of this to her? nope!

Ex #2: I have a friend who has been in an 8 year relationship. She has been engaged for over a year. She moved in with him after the engagement and had a baby. They have no wedding date set (covid and being pregnant were to blame). Do I think he will marry her? Nope. Do I tell her this? nope again.

I keep my mouth shut to keep my friendships.

Nat_at_all · 2021-04-14T01:46:43+00:00

I recently got into a fight w my friends because of this. They were really really angry when I suggested my friend ghost this guy who’s flaked on her multiple times and already told her months ago he wanted to stop talking. But she won’t keep messaging and he likes the attention and he helps her so obviously since she’s still highly available, he uses her as a therapist and basically a task rabbit to do his life planning stuff (booking TICKETS, writing resume and editing, thinking of a startup idea!! Wtf).

Weremaid · 2021-04-14T00:35:18+00:00

[permanently deleted]

spicyspa · 2021-04-14T01:07:56+00:00

I think your friends have fallen into the "but at least I'm in a RELATIONSHIP vortex."

When I was in high school, I was very FDS, decades before FDS. I was always told I'd end up a nun or a spinster. I lost a lot of friends, but looking back it was okay because they'd basically try to pimp me out to those guys you have to give a chance to (usually foul smelling, toothless felons). That changed when I got married and succumbed to "marriage" privilege.

I now just speak my peace and leave it. You just need to plant a seed, not take care of the plant.

2021-04-14T04:13:33+00:00

I left our friendship because she kept on saying I was too harsh. And I told her why and she kept saying the same thing.

I had enough.

Sometimes you need to cut your losses.

_RustInPiece_ · 2021-04-14T02:02:47+00:00

I don't hold my tongue but I don't burst out my unsolicited opinion either. Well at least when it come to female friends. I'm strategic about when I want to save PickMe's: When their man is present I'm being very expressive about my standards and how my life benefited from being treated with the same respect I give to men. While it's not my place mess with other people's relationship there is nothing wrong with sharing what worked for me so far (FDS principles basically). This gives the pair an inspiration on how healthy relationships can works. It raises the women's standards and let's the man know that we (women) know our rights. It gives her the tools to hold him accountable if he wants to become a HVM. It gives him an inspiration to want her to have higher standards. Why? Because he sees me, an aspiring HVW, talking about what I like. Men desire HVW, the only difference between HVM and LVM is how they attempt to get one. I'm implicitly publicating a script one how to become a HVM without allowing them to LARP (since their gf is next to them). Basically I raising her standards. She can see me as a role model or leave it be. That's up to her. I can't help those who refuse my help, but I can offer it by sharing my life experience. When I'm under pickmeishas and they begin to talk about their man I give recovering pickmeisha advice: When they exaggerate their LVM's behaviour, like "OMFG he did the dishes I'm so lucky to have him" I nod with a stoic approval like "That's good to hear." I'm not saying something that puts them into defensive. I wouldn't say "LOL sis that's the bare minimum! Ofc you should dump his ass if he didn't." They are not than far, they need more time. Otherwise they distance themselves from me because they feel like they have to defend them and "can't talk openly" with me. This is exactly what abusers want from their victim's friends when they lovebomb them. (you can read about this phenomenon in Lundy Bancrofts "Why does he do that?"). One effect of the honeymoon phase is to get their victims to boast about them in front of their friends and family members. So when things go south in the relationship their beloved ones are less likely to react with understanding, invoking a sense of shame in their victims. This leads to isolation which enable further abuse.
When a pickme has an insightful moment or tells me about their LVM shitty actions I agree with them. Shitty actions are shitty, there is nothing to excuse. I take them serious and tell them "You deserve so much better." Again, no direct attack unless she is able to see through his bs herself. When you give female beneficial advice you center it around the woman, not the man.

greeneyesrosylips · 2021-04-14T03:26:44+00:00

I just started avoiding dating talk all together. Everyone assumes I'm jealous and bitter because I can't get the treatment I want when, in fact, I got materially spoiled (which everyone knows is a non-negotiable standard of mine) by my ex all the time (he's still a LVM and we broke up because of other reasons). I've even had an ex friend literally telling me "He already did [pick me]", in response to me telling her "I hope he picks you" when she was trying to defend her LVM fuck buddy who wouldn't commit to her. I'm done with their clownery. And the fun fact is: while I'm single myself, one of the few female friends I'm still close with is married to a HVM. So it's definitely not a matter of jealousy. I'm truly happy for her and I aspire to be in a relationship like hers when I'm older (she's a few years older than me, I'm still in college lol).

Breesasha · 2021-04-14T03:51:45+00:00

I hold my tongue because no one wants to hear it. I chose FDS because I was frustrated by the LVM and all the dating scene. But not everyone is ready to hear FDS principles and live that lifestyle. Everyone has to choose it for themselves and I can't lecture them into wanting that. Without following FDS, they won't want my advice.

FeelLikeRollinDice · 2021-04-14T01:40:02+00:00

You can also choose to not discuss relationships with them. You can tell them that you have different standards and values, and that it is best to keep relationships as topic to avoid.

Betty_Bottle · 2021-04-14T06:17:17+00:00

Just a couple of days ago a work colleague was saying that she lives with an actual man child and I blurted out "just throw the whole man away". Felt bad when she started defending him and their "shared sense of humour". I really don't like her boyfriend but she genuinely believes she can't find anyone better, typical "at least I'm in a relationship" mode.

I wish I could help her.

Heather619 · 2021-04-14T05:50:49+00:00

All. The. Fucking. Time. I can usually meet a friend's boyfriend once and tell if they're compatible or not. But I bite my tongue unless they ask for my opinion. I've learned that if someone isn't ready to hear the truth, it won't help them. They'll just alienate you and double-down by staying with the LVM to try to prove you wrong.

missmex · 2021-04-14T04:14:31+00:00

Me! My friends call me old fashioned and religious, blaming my unbending expectations on my singleness 🙃

all_or_nothing_bet · 2021-04-14T04:35:45+00:00

I try my best not to say what I see because people do not want to hear the brutal, heart-wrenching things about their relationships and people they are in love with. They will be in denial until they have enough and even if they secretly agree with everything we have to say, they will not admit so because a) ego, b) wishful thinking aka hope.

52490 · 2021-04-14T04:52:12+00:00

You have to be tactful if you care about maintaining the friendship. Sometimes people aren’t ready to hear or follow certain ideas, they might need time to get used to it or process....

I do a few things. I ask if they want my opinion or just to listen. I ask them questions like “do you feel like that’s enough effort for you?” or “do you feel like he’s matching your energy in X situation?” or “do you feel like he’s cheating” or whatever basically pointed questions that kind of get your point across but they have to think of an answer to..which hopefully makes them realize or start to.

And sometimes I straight up tell them “he’s doing the bare minimum, he keeps doing the bare minimum, he’s just not that into you” or whatever for the situation, and when it gets to that, I have never once been wrong. So they always come around after the breakup. But, some have gotten upset with me for being so blunt so you have to save that for when it really counts if you need to use it.

Edit to add, if the difference is too great it’s possible that you might wanna just drop the relationship...accepting flaws is ok but figure out where your line is on how far you will tolerate. LV friends are a thing and they will drag you down so just be careful.

_queeeen_ · 2021-04-14T01:29:39+00:00

Au contraire, being single affords you the clarity on what you have to lose by dating a LVM.

Throwawayrightaway28 · 2021-04-14T15:43:08+00:00

And I was in college I had a good friend who was an OG pick me. That was not surprising because her mom was a pick me and my friend was born under the most ridiculous circumstances. Her mom was proudly having an affair with a married man. All throughout her childhood her mom tried to weaponize my friend to continue this affair and have continual access to the married man, who was obviously trash for having an affair to begin with. Anyway, I give all that background to say my friend would go after guys who had girlfriends and in one case a fiancée. She was obsessed with being picked, but not just being picked, being chosen over someone. It’s like she was playing the central conflict of her childhood over and over. She had some real issues with her mom and I think she wanted to prove she was a better woman by getting a man away from his SO.

I had empathy at first because her mother was a monster. When pick mes have children, they will cast to the wolves just to have a man in their lives. My friend told me awful stories about how her mother kicked her out as a child in the middle of the night just to please boyfriends. Some of the boyfriends even approached her, not that her mother cared. I encouraged her to get therapy, I talked to her for hours about her problems. But what drove me crazy is that she was very, very smart but she only used her intelligence to justify her bad choices. As long as they were only bad choices, I was willing to work with her. But they went from bad to toxic our senior year.

She started in with the guy with the fiancée, the pregnant fiancée. The woman was bedridden, having some kind of complications. My friend told me that and laughed, gloated about how that made hooking up easier. I was horrified. I asked if she had any remorse, any sympathy for this woman at all. There was none. I broke off the friendship right there and haven’t spoken to her since and that was over a decade ago. It’s just like breaking up with an LVM. You never regret it. Eventually all of our mutual girlfriends had to do the same because she was just so sick.

thinktwiceorelse · 2021-04-14T09:54:34+00:00

It used to be, but I'm not friends with them anymore.

ShegoGreen · 2021-04-14T16:44:33+00:00

No. I choose not to have low value friends. "You are the average of the 5 people you hang out with."

thecrazywitch31 · 2021-04-14T06:05:46+00:00

I am very lucky to have found friends who are very confident and No-BS. Friends I had in Highschool were so shitty, they judged everything by looks, and were some form of pick-me girls. I used to be very studious and career-focused girl, but then I got very low self esteem and insecurities at that time that I became a "cool girl" to compensate for my lack of hotness and all.

In college, the friends I have are so supportive and nice. We are still confused as to what to do in life, but still, all are focused on their goals and lift each other up 💖

janeaustenfan99 · 2021-04-14T19:59:01+00:00

Yeah, speaking from experience unless it’s a certain kind of friendship where you can talk without a filter it’s best not to offer love advice that contradicts with what it is they already wanna do. Cus they’ll blame you for their unhappiness and cut you off.

Title	Does anyone else have to hold their tongue around their friends when they talk about dating?
Author	camille_san
Upvotes	316
Comments	33
Date	April 13, 2021 11:16 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/mqe1e7/does_anyone_else_have_to_hold_their_tongue_around/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/does-anyone-else-have-to-hold-their-tongue-around.1188470 https://theredarchive.com/post/1188470

Comments