When dating POC men that come from patriarchal cultures...

ferociouslycurious · 2022-01-22T04:54:44+00:00

If they mimic any of the machismo, toss them right out. I think most of them don’t require a test, they pretty much scream it voluntarily.

ennu_i_sao · 2022-01-22T06:46:58+00:00

Sometimes, it’s hard to detect which flavor of patriarchy they’re sporting unless you’re very familiar with the culture. So, first of all I think it’s important to identify your own values and what you think adds value to your life. At the same time, it’s important to understand the specific patriarchy of their culture to understand if they identify and practice those beliefs. WASP or Italian-American(or any other group of) white men can absolutely still be misogynists and those cultures are also patriarchal. If you don’t grow up with them, it’s hard to see what is a quirk and what is misogyny. For example, depending on the culture, “come and let me and my family show you our family recipe” could mean “Let’s all cook together and have fun in the kitchen so dinner is out faster/share our culture” or “I’ll sit here and play on my phone and watch as my mommy instructs you on how to be my second mother and I do absolutely nothing to help with housework”

pozerdm · 2022-01-22T04:51:57+00:00

US based Latina who’s pretty much exclusively dated Latino men.

Some things that help to know is how long they’ve been living here. Typically I avoid those who don’t speak English and who came over around high school age or older. Not to say folks who come over at an older age are necessarily more chauvinistic but… it lessens the probability.

Knowing the language is important for me because I don’t want to play the same translator role I do for my parents.

Besides that… honestly, same red flags you watch for with anyone: Love bombing, too distant, lying about little thing, etc. the handbook for sure applies. And having conversations about what serious relationships or parenthood looks like. They tend to be very upfront about chauvinism when they are chauvinists

Other cultures or latinas even might feel differently but that’s my experience

TENTITS · 2022-01-22T05:53:14+00:00

Honestly, after wasting the entirety of my 20s trying to find the unicorn amongst South Asian men (am South Asian myself) I've come to the conclusion that they simply do not exist. Whether it takes 1 month or 1 year, they will get lazy pretending to be HVM and revert back to the patriarchal structures they grew up in and expect you to handle everything household plus a career plus children and contribute to the mortgage and bills while they skate by having poker nights with friends every weekend.

My tried and tested strategy was to meet the family early on. The guy's parents and their marriage/dynamic is a great indicator of his upbringing. Get a feel for the mom, her role and her capacity as a matriarch, how happy is she with her life etc. If he has any sisters, meeting their partners also gives great insight into their own upbringing, strong independent women in the family is a great sign. If the guy has any apprehension to you meeting the family hard pass, he's either using you or too ashamed of being exposed as a phoney.

It's not just my own anecdotal evidence, it's pretty much every other desi woman of our generation I've met. They've either settled for one despite this realization or they married outside of the culture.

Mcccy · 2022-01-22T11:44:02+00:00

Vet like normal, don't exsuse bad behaviours cause "oh it's the norm where his is from" and don't rely on how they view their mom too much, many men can be misogynistic as hell but love their mom and her unconditional love.

Also I noticed how the chances of them being good partners are 50/50, they'll either mimic the way the men in their life mistreated women or they will completely discard it and try to unlearn it.

frogchickenhorse · 2022-01-22T05:29:45+00:00

If they ask have you dated a X nationality. I know they they are wanker and not worth my time. You are not a unique snowflake. After their question, usually comes demands and expectations or the assumption that I will meet up immediately for sex after chatting for 10 mins.

chasingshoesales · 2022-01-22T08:26:02+00:00

So I'm from a very machismo Latino culture and honestly haven't had any luck within my own culture. It's awful lol. I'm primarily physically attracted to Latino or black guys, so dating has been rough.

One thing that bothers me the most about my culture and black culture in media is that our music is blatantly very misogynistic. Most misogynists will just tell you that you're reading too much into it. So I ask them what their favorite artists are without making any comment about my feelings about misogyny in music. If they list artists who are clearly misogynistic like Chris Brown, Kodak Black, etc. then it's a no go for me. I have weeded out almost every guy using this tactic sadly. However, I'm currently dating a guy (3 successful dates so far) who is African American and an actual musician. I've asked him who his favorite artists are and none so far have been red flags. So far he's only shown HV traits and no red flags.

Constant-Wanderer · 2022-01-22T05:38:10+00:00

I don’t recall ever vetting men in different ways - if they’re good men, they’re good men, not “good for being a POC man.”

Shitty behavior due to cultural differences shows itself really early on, especially if you don’t try to be extra mindful of your differences. I’ve had men tell me exactly what they thought of my “disrespectful” behavior when I refused to defer to them or treat them the way a woman from their culture would.

Fine by me, out yourself as quickly as possible.

Specialist-Company24 · 2022-01-22T06:21:59+00:00

Honest advice? Don't date men from patriarchal cultures. Just don't.

I say this as a woman who's from a very patriarchal culture. Even within privileged circles, the stuff that I hear from men who grew up in a very patriarchal environment, is just something someone who hasn't grown up in such a place can fathom. Western men have been pieces of shit to me as well but they would be frightened if they heard the stuff that I heard or if I shared my experiences with them. Also, western men usually stfu when they're violently called out, belittled and rekt for their misogynistic opinions. Because they're not used to it. They're used to being gently reminded to be a respectable human beings towards women and are not used to be confronted firmly and objectively about it. Call out a man who grew up in a place where patriarchy is celebrated and they're cheered on by men and women alike anytime they speak badly of women, and he'll tell you you're lucky you're allowed to have a job and go out of the house.

I've seen the experience of three western men the first time in my country, dudes became full fledged feminists in two days and noticed everyday misogyny that I hadn't even noticed because of how accustomed to it I have to be to not lose my mind. They said they didn't like the trip or the destination, felt an uneasy feeling all around and couldn't wait to leave. Imagine how much I couldn't wait to leave. Even the best of our men have literally incel opinions when you dig a little.

Me and my sister swore to ourselves we would never marry someone from our culture or close to it. Even when she's complaining to me about the usual problems women dating western men face, we're like "Imagine what it would be if he was the same nationality as us!". It's a culture I understand and in which I am very welcomed and accepted, yet I avoid it like the plague and only go back to see my family. It's going to be hard to get my family to accept a partner from another race or culture, but I'd rather deal with that type of hardship. This isn't a choice that I made for myself only, but for my potential kids as well. I want them to have as little ties as possible with the misogynistic culture I come from and I don't want their father to show their gender bias when we finally have children. It's one thing when your man is sitting on his ass all day playing video games and not contributing to any adult responsibilities, it's another thing when he starts telling you he did you a favor by marrying you even though you were not a virgin, on top of that.

If they grew up in the west and are from the type of liberal families who moved out because they couldn't let their daughters live without getting threats, then it should be alright.

But like, regular man who grew up in Pakistan, Morocco, etc. Just avoid, avoid avoid avoid.

salthoney · 2022-01-22T06:37:08+00:00

I think it's important not to excuse shitty behavior because a man is from X culture or is of X ethnicity. Shitty behavior is shitty behavior around the world. The only difference is how much of a chance women there have to actually defend themselves or demand more, as well as how much women (and men) there are conditioned by the culture.

So yeah, I would say vet as you always would.

biwinny · 2022-01-22T08:49:25+00:00

All men, POC or otherwise, grow up in patriarchal cultures and societies.

I vet them all the same, however, with white men, you are more likely to gain their families' support if he hurts you. In some poc cultures, it's more taboo to bring it up than it is to just let it continue. But it's like that a lot in white cultures too, so you can't really vet too differently between races/cultures

gold_sunsets · 2022-01-22T04:33:21+00:00

I just want to point out that all cultures are patriarchal. Some are more overt (hence "machismo") and some are more covert. Not to gloss over that there are cultural differences in values and the ways in which gender roles are ascribed/play out.

Keepers12345 · 2022-01-22T05:14:12+00:00

Bring up the subject of celebrities and public figures, see who they admire

Also ask about sports... I wouldn't want to date anyone who's into MMA, boxing, or football*

*Some may consider ruling out football as going too far, but I don't want to be with someone who overlooks the fact that the sport revolves around aggression and doesn't care about men's mental health or life longevity

SupremeDearLeader · 2022-01-22T19:29:19+00:00

Dated a guy for waaay to long [ his family is from Michoacan ] what a selfish lazy pos he was , pretended to care but was a covert narc hobosexual looking for mommy to do all the emotional/physical/ financial labour. Never again, thanks to FDS he was put tothecurb for good :)

Ps. Of course he moved back in w grandma ,free rent free meals free housekeeping !!!

Ashamed-Reputation-2 · 2022-01-23T02:50:04+00:00

I can't really think of any POC cultures that aren't patriarchal. Maybe African Americans, since women have no choice but to lead the household. But AA men still somehow have a large influence/run shit despite not being present. I think that's due to many older black women being male identified. I have heard that most island men (Samoan, Tongan, etc) are mama's boys, but idk if that makes their culture matriarchal.

Either way all you can do is vet and not justify their incompetence by their cultural norms. I've gone out with quite a few Indian men and most of them still lived with their parents and hid behind their "culture", when in reality they were just lazy and couldn't function on their own.

Mighty_Wombat42 · 2022-01-23T04:40:24+00:00

In addition to what’s already been said, I think just don’t excuse poor behavior because it’s cultural. Also, all cultures are patriarchal, but it’s ok to have certain mindsets and behaviors you find more tolerable and others that are dealbreakers for you.

Personally, I am of mixed European and Middle Eastern heritage. For Middle Eastern culture, I won’t tolerate men who expect me to stop working after marriage, who don’t think a husband needs to respect a wife’s boundaries, who agree with treating sons better than daughters, who shame women for having healthy sexuality, and who can’t respect a woman as a teacher, advisor, or mentor. For western culture, pornography, sex before marriage, kink/bdsm/“pleasing your man” type stuff, him not paying for dates, expecting me to take the full burden of family planning, expecting me/my family to pay the cost of our wedding, belittling women who are housewives or SAHMs, and not being willing to make an effort to be respectful to my family are all deal breakers.

I have known men from both cultures who did all of the above things, some more frequently correlate with one culture over the other, but that doesn’t mean men from outside the culture won’t do that thing. I’d say vet every potential partner for general misogyny, red flags, and anything you personally think is important to have in a relationship.

melympia · 2022-01-22T19:48:17+00:00

How do you vet men that come from high machismo cultures?

Not at all. Just avoid them.

However, I doubt that that's what you want to go with, and you're going ahead with him anyway. In this case, I think there are some things you might want to bring up or observe:

How does he treat the women in his family - his mother, his sisters, his nieces? How does the rest of the family treat them? Because while the guy you're vetting might be wearing a mask around you, his family most assuredly won't.
Bring up exes. His and yours. How does he deal with the fact you have a past that includes lovers, relationships and the like?
If you're trying for something serious, where does he see you in 10 years? But before that, live together for a year or so before tying the knot. Chances are that the mask will come off in that time. Will he do his fair share of chores? How are you splitting up rent and other living expenses? Does he treat you right even behind closed doors?
Also, be very, very careful and protect your womb at all cost until you know beyond the shadow of a doubt he's HV.
Never ever ever give up your job for anything in the world. Not even for your children. Because if you do, he's got you trapped.

missmex · 2022-01-25T15:13:52+00:00

This applies to American culture only, as I am American. As long as you date someone who was born in the US, or grew up here, and embraces American culture and is moderate or liberal, there’s a good chance he may not have inherited the patriarchal bullshit. Pay attention to his language. Men tell on themselves so easily. I listen to what they say. I am conservative, so often I say this and they almost immediately tell on themselves. Ask them how their parents handled the household. Listen to his tone, and his criticism/opinion. I would poke it by saying “I grew up with a mom and dad who were very traditional” and they will probably say something and you can poke from there. It’s important to come across as non judgmental. I get that compliment ALL the time, and men show their true colors pretty quickly with me because they think I’ll accept their behavior. I accept them as a person, I just won’t accept them as my boyfriend 😂 if he likes politics, you can let him go on about it and within 5 minutes, he will def tell you if he is a feminist or not.

Title	When dating POC men that come from patriarchal cultures...
Author	Throwawaylikehay
Upvotes	256
Comments	31
Date	January 22, 2022 4:24 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/s9tze5/when_dating_poc_men_that_come_from_patriarchal/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/when-dating-poc-men-that-come-from-patriarchal.1098260 https://theredarchive.com/post/1098260

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