Does anyone feel like suicide is called selfish cause of misandry?

Born-Worldliness9804 · 2022-11-22T09:16:21+00:00

I live in India, and I know a few men who killed themselves due to denial of access to their children and having to face numerous false cases filed by the ex. Here, the judicial system is so misandrous that, forget gender bias, there are no laws for male victims of DV, sexual harassment, etc. These men decide that death is better than the sub-human lives they are subject to. Nothing selfish about it. Just a way to stop the pain.

In one case I know, the man killed himself after documenting all the abuse his wife had heaped on him. His family went to Court and the case was closed with a remark stating he must have been a coward.

The lives of men have zero value when they are not providers for women (and children). Even male celebrities only get some sympathy in death; never a listening ear when alive.

FoldupKibbles26 · 2022-11-22T12:27:28+00:00

As someone who put a lot of thought into killing themselves it's bullshit that it's selfish, and people who say it is simply haven't put themselves in the shoes of someone who's about to call it quits. First, "You're not thinking about your friends and family or how they'd feel." Bullshit, absolute bullshit. People struggle for months, years, with these thoughts and how it'll effects people around them. They often feel unloved, isolated, and a burden to those around them. I came to the conclusion that suicide is the least selfish act. I'm choosing to no longer live a pointless life of unending suffering, and stopping myself from being a negative force in every else's life, because I am the problem and my existence is hurting the people I love. Suicide is an apology to the people around me for all the pain I've put them through. They don't care about me, I'm alone, my death will not be met with tears, and I won't cause them any more pain with my life.

Assholes the lot of you who say it's selfish.

Low_Cranberry_4024 · 2022-11-22T11:17:54+00:00

I never understood the whole suicide is selfish argument either

NerdyDadLife · 2022-11-22T09:18:25+00:00

Never thought about this before. It's an interesting take that I will be thinking about for a while (I work in mental health so it's a good brain exercise for me).

My inclination is no, because there are other points of reference around the stigma (some religions, ignorance, arrogance, apathy, etc.). I also think that people fear what they don't understand, so they find ways to throw shade on the situation (as already see in the comments)

nineteenletterslong_ · 2022-11-22T11:23:41+00:00

if women are the victims of men dying (in war) then this conclusion is inevitable

anoncitizen4 · 2022-11-22T13:28:32+00:00

I always thought it was strange to pile on "you're being selfish" to someone who is in so much pain that they are literally prepared to end their life.

skyarrow999 · 2022-11-22T11:53:30+00:00

Some of the replies in this thread are pretty sad to read.

I think that the whole aspect of men suffering from mental illness not being taken as seriously by society as women often are definitely plays a role here, but I think that although related, this has more to do with ignorance towards mental health in general rather than misandry exactly.

The average person does not really understand mental health much at all. Calling suicide selfish a short sighted response to the tip of the iceberg people manage to see while being unaware of everything below the water. It's the inability to even imagine the suffering a person must go through to successfully commit suicide. The people that have the guts to call any particular suicide selfish are ultimately projecting their own selfishness due to a lack of understanding.

Suicide is often one of the very few acts suicidal people do in their own best interest. It's the last option left at ending one's misery. Sure, it's technically selfish as it's in one's own interests, however, if you have the audacity to call a person selfish for committing suicide, you are incredibly misguided, and sadly likely contributed to their decision if you knew them personally.

There's only so much the mind can take. Be kind on more than the surface level. Actually start giving a shit about your fellow people.

roughback · 2022-11-22T15:50:20+00:00

society would prefer to work men to death, or send them to war to die - basically use the batteries until they run dry.

we are tools, nothing more. nothing reminds you of this than being told "we haven't given you permission to die yet"

Far-Reputation7119 · 2022-11-22T12:56:37+00:00

Yes. I’ve actually noticed this too. They start getting angry at the guy that took his life.

KamloopsEnlightened · 2022-11-22T15:03:50+00:00

The Canadian government is passing a bill that will allow doctor assisted suicide if you're mentally ill.

I personally am politically right-wing (economically). But there are a culture of religious Conservatives who are often against abortion and suicide. They seem to want an overpopulated world of unhappy people.

They are definitely against this assisted suicide, and even going as far as saying "the Canadian government are murdering the mentally ill". Suicide is actually never suggested, and this would be a last resort for the individual.

I personally want to kill myself at 80 years old before I become a burden on my family and society (the opposite of selfish). Rather than my family finding me with my brains exploded, I should be able to go to the hospital and peacefully overdose on a nice drug cocktail. Less messy.

I find it fascinating that there are people out there would rather see babies born to parents who don't want the baby or can't raise them. Or people who want to see suicidal people continue to struggle and be drains on society. I've never understood it.

AbysmalDescent · 2022-11-22T15:40:34+00:00

Yeah, for sure. It reminds me a bit of that "the biggest victims of war is women" line. Often when it's said, it's used in a context that is more or less saying "the biggest victims of male suicide are women". Men are expected to provide and protect for women, and they are heavily objectified and dehumanized, and when men kill themselves they are effectively failing in that designated purpose. It's often also said because people are very quick to be dismissive of men's suffering, experiences and mental health, or because they are just so comfortable attacking or vilifying men because they are men.

brygphilomena · 2022-11-22T14:08:06+00:00

I really hate the idea around calling suicide selfish as if being selfish is a bad thing.

Being selfish can be a great thing. Setting proper boundaries is being selfish. Saying "no" to things you don't want to do is being selfish. Putting your health first is being selfish. Exercising regularly is being selfish.

Those with mental health issues NEED to be selfish. They need to start taking care of themselves. They need to learn that they are worthy of self care.

Zeioth · 2022-11-22T13:54:00+00:00

It's the magic of capitalism. "How I'm going to explode this guy economically if it is dead?"

Victor-_-X · 2022-11-22T16:24:55+00:00

When someone is thinking seriously about suicide, they sure as hell don't care if others think it's selfish, they need that deprive from pain

secret_tiger101 · 2022-11-22T18:01:42+00:00

Bit like the “women suffer most in war”

rabel111 · 2022-11-22T20:34:57+00:00

Those sexist pigs claiming men who suicide are selfish, are revealling their belief that men's lives are only valued for the benefits they provide to women.

Men's lives are valuable regardless of what sexist pigs like this say.

DarkObserver0457 · 2022-11-23T03:25:05+00:00

Suicide isn’t anything but a choice not to be here anymore. To end the pain that one is suffering whether it be mental or physical. It’s their body, it’s their life, it’s their choice. Wanting someone to continue with that kind of pain so you don’t have to deal with the grief of them being gone is what’s selfish.

IceCorrect · 2022-11-22T13:02:33+00:00

Intresting take and I belive its true. Society are build at premise that men think of himself last and are constatly shamed to do "right thing", "men up". Its no suprise that "real men" is guy who dont think about his well being but to please other people (especialy women), so its unnatural for men think of himself first and this men must be bring back to society so then he can be expoited and used.

Troy19877 · 2022-11-22T14:32:22+00:00

It only means you are weak minded. I've been in that position before. People who commit suicide often think they have nothing left to live for and that's never the case. We need to be the ones who create a positive force in our own lives. I've been through a divorce and I only have every other weekend with my son. It sucks.But I started to put some serious work into my own life and now I'm in a better position than I've ever been before.

Valzemodeus · 2022-11-22T10:06:23+00:00

I don't think it's necessarily misandry, though there may be something to your thoughts.

I also share your thoughts that it is just as selfish to want someone to continue suffering for the sake of emotional appeasement. At the same time I understand certain stances that worry about euthanasia being encouraged too easily.

It's complicated.

UncoolAsACucumber · 2022-11-22T12:00:15+00:00

I don't feel this way. I feel that it's selfish but not because of misandry. It doesn't matter if it's a man or woman doing it, either way leaving everybody who loves you behind because life got too hard is selfish in my book. I was very close to my uncles brother in law when I was younger and he helped me through a very terrible two years at school where I was being bullied profusely every day. He killed himself after him and his girlfriend got into a bad fight and she left and I personally haven't been the same since.

ramao__ · 2022-11-22T14:45:51+00:00

That's an excellent point, I had never thought about it. It really comes circling back to the fact that men are "valued" as nothing but providers. So people think male suicide is bad because it's one less provider, and not because a man died. Men are socially encouraged to sacrifice everything for the whole, even if the sacrifice means living a burdened life he doesn't care about anymore, it's sickening.

Arzakhan · 2022-11-22T15:29:45+00:00

As someone whose dealt with suicidal thoughts my entire life, I believe it’s selfish to bite the bullet. Thinking about how many people your going to hurt, and being ok with that? Never sat right with me, it’s the only reason why I haven’t done it, and why I can’t respect anyone who does.

creamer143 · 2022-11-22T16:34:52+00:00

The selfishness aspect comes from the grief and turmoil that is left with the person's family, friends, etc. Of course, suicide is about ending the pain that one is suffering, but in the face of the emotional trauma it can cause (especially if a family member is the one finding the body), either the person killing themselves didn't consider this, or they didn't care. That is where the selfishness comes from and calling it as such isn't necessarily misandry.

0R0V0H0 · 2022-11-22T22:07:16+00:00

I think suicide is called selfish because of ableism, but most of the suicide victims I’ve known dealt with some kind of disability or health issue that made life hell for them. I DO see men targeted more often as victims of ableism.

JackStile · 2022-11-22T23:10:31+00:00

Suicide itself is sad, and shows that as a society we have failed. While I believe some form of misandry can push one to do such actions and is a part of how we treat it. I wish I knew how many were because a man lost their family and cannot start over so take that way out. As that would be a direct cause.

I do believe that as a society this needs to change, support from other men to help those men in need.

Murdering of youself isn't selfish, its just wrong and incredibly sad.

Cordelldogdello · 2022-11-22T20:49:01+00:00

I don’t care what kind of mental gymnastics y’all who say it’s not selfish are going through. Yes it is selfish. You’re not just getting rid of the pain, you’re passing it on to those who love you. You don’t commit suicide for other people, you do it for yourself. If that’s not selfish then I don’t know what is

almostadaddy · 2022-11-23T00:50:28+00:00

somirion · 2022-11-22T09:13:10+00:00

No.

Since i remember i think suicide is selfish.

Why?

Suicide doesnt solve anything. If you had finacial problems - now somebody else have it.
We are dependant on our social circles for health etc. We miss each other. While leaving, you hurt others.

What is "good" about suicide? In what way it is not selfish?

Dude, even eating healthy is mostly selfish, because you do it for yourself.

bat_in_the_stacks · 2022-11-22T10:00:07+00:00

No, it's selfish because you leave a huge hole behind you that all who cared about you have to deal with. It would only not be selfish if no one misses you when you're gone and no one has to find your dead body.

I personally also think someone willing to die should go out trying to do something helpful for the world. Leave things a little better than you found them.

Mycroft033 · 2022-11-22T15:50:13+00:00

Nah, suicide is selfish and short-sighted, regardless of the gender of the suicidal person. I know a family who had a son who hung himself. His dad found him. The family was never the same. As someone who was suicidal, I know what it’s like, you think nobody cares about you, which is false, and that things will never get better, which is almost always also false. This is just the majority of suicides, not necessarily applicable to all cases.

justadogdontblameme · 2022-11-22T10:07:32+00:00

I think suicide is selfish. First off, you don’t care about the person who’ll find your body and the trauma that will cause them for the rest of their lives. Imagine being the one who finds a family member’s body, and depending on how you ended it the mess that’s there, that can really fuck someone up. Then you don’t care about your friends or family that will be devastated and feel blindsided by what you did. If you have kids then you put them through all kinds of hell, what’s going through their minds thinking that their father killed himself not even thinking of them stopped it. Plus now they have a higher chance of also killing themselves. Everyone has thought about it and some have come very close, but you dig deep and push through. I know I’ll get downvoted for this but i really don’t care, i had to say it. Man up, stand tall and you’ll get through the bullshit eventually. It might take time, but don’t stop, have faith in yourself.

SuperSecretSociopath · 2022-11-22T19:36:46+00:00

I think that anyone who kills themselves when they have children is selfish, male or female. When you have kids, you have an obligation to them, and making someone grow up without a father or a mother, in my eyes, is selfish. I understand that there are mental health things that are skewing their perceptions of people's relationships and they feel like they're a burden, but they're mentally ill, not stupid. They know that suicide is an extreme action. They should seek out help. There are suicide hotlines everywhere. The people left behind are the ones that have to pick up the pieces, and I don't mean the financial/provider things. I mean the guilt that they weren't able to help you, children blame themselves, everyone has to find a way to move on without someone that they love, and it sucks.

I'm a woman, so it's possible that I just don't see it. My gut reaction was that you were projecting, but I don't want to invalidate your experiences. I can think of plenty of examples of men who have killed themselves and not considered selfish, Robin Williams for example. I can't think of a high profile female suicide where she didn't also kill her children. No matter what, there are always going to be assholes on the internet running their mouth, and I feel like there would be just as many people calling a woman selfish. Perhaps even more if she's a mother, due to the the perception that women are thought of as the "caregivers." They'd say that she's a terrible mother.

But as someone who has thought that people were selfish, I can assure you that my motivations have never had to do with the idea of losing an able bodied person in the workforce, or a provider, or anything even approaching that, and I honestly don't think I've heard another woman express anything even approaching that sentiment. I was taken aback that people think that. When I, or anyone that I know, has said it, it's *always* been about the survivor's *emotional* connection to the person. People losing their dad or their husband or their family member that they loved dearly, and coping with not being able to help them. People experiencing profound loss and grief. The financial repercussions or the socioeconomic implications have honestly never even entered my mind. I feel like my intentions would be in the majority here. I don't doubt that shitty people have said those things before, but if I heard someone expressing a judgment like that in real life, I would be shocked.

fakevahi · 2022-11-23T00:35:55+00:00

No, suicide is weak and pathetic regardless of sex, race, sexual orientation or whatever arbitrary category you want to create.

WithEyesWideOpen · 2022-11-22T10:53:35+00:00

Suicide is selfish because it would be easy to at least try to make it look like an accident. If you don't make it look like an accident, you want the people you leave behind to feel awful and guilty.

aerial_coitus · 2022-11-22T16:53:22+00:00

Yes. Even if you self delete the system will just blame it on toxic masculinity or your own mental illness, or will otherwise just somehow twist it around and find a way to absolve the system completely of any and all responsibility. It is pretty fucked up.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2022-11-23T00:10:36+00:00

Women have choices. Men have responsibilities.

YesYesYesVeryGood · 2022-11-23T00:44:03+00:00

For those who have committed suicide, I hope they have found peace. I do see an honor of taking their own lives instead of hurting others. The only thought of regret I would have is if they committed suicide in a hasty action.

I have heard that those who have attempted do try again.

I'm not going to pretend I know every situation, but if they are unhappy where they are and they couldn't find a safe way out, they found an exit.

ExtentionBobcat · 2022-11-23T02:30:05+00:00

As a former suicidal person, no I don't think so. See, that attitude comes from both women and men and mostly from the more able, and importantly the ones who are using and abusing. Even from those more on the periphery who turn a blind eye and play denial games. To both men and women as well.

I don't think that would make it "misandrist" exactly just very toxic generally showing everyone why people get to that point in the first place.

AntiWokeGayBloke · 2022-11-23T05:28:40+00:00

Studies tell us that people perceive men’s and women’s wellbeing very differently. What does that say about the discourse that currently dominates our culture? Do We Under Detect Men’s Suffering?

gamerlololdude · 2022-11-23T06:01:13+00:00

No I would say it’s because of capitalism. When you are alive you are useful to the ruling class. Dead people don’t pay taxes and consume advertised stuff and work for wage that is barely enough to make ends meet. This applies to all humans.

Maybe if historically in US working was a man thing there could be some tie to “not killing yourself” being masculine trait hence shamed in men if done but given more leeway in women. that connects to the masculine marketed trait of not showing emotions and being stoic. the “don’t be a pussy” “boys don’t cry”. you could see that a woman can technically be a pussy and cry then. it’s all the same damn harmful patriarchy

TheAtlasKhan · 2022-11-23T06:24:31+00:00

No one asks to be born. Life is forced upon us like a prison sentence. We can choose to live or we can choose to end, but it is up to the individuals discretion. Absolutely the argument stems from misandry.

DragonMeatloaf · 2022-11-23T07:35:26+00:00

Some of these comments r fkin disgusting. In no way is it "weak" or "selfish".

SoloRich · 2022-11-23T08:33:33+00:00

Please re-edit ur post to include punctuation. You wrote a long run-on sentences,

sweet_tranquility · 2022-11-23T11:51:56+00:00

unfortunately there has been large swarms of people saying suicide is selfish

I don't listen to random people, they've got too much to say, always running their mouths. Let em think what they wanna think, those people will still be here suffering on earth while im enjoying being in the nothingness.

Title	Does anyone feel like suicide is called selfish cause of misandry?
Author	Jumping3
Upvotes	343
Comments	145
Date	November 22, 2022 9:02 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/z1owd1/does_anyone_feel_like_suicide_is_called_selfish/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/does-anyone-feel-like-suicide-is-called-selfish.1144492 https://theredarchive.com/post/1144492

Comments