Men have always been privileged

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It's not a question of being maintained, it's a question of choice. Had they wanted to work, or to be independent, or to vote or be skilled in certain professions, they would not have been allowed to. The men who wanted to stay at home and be the homemakers would also have been considered lazy or wasted.

These sorts of issues are as a result of a society that expects roles to be assigned based on sex, rather than on skillset or ambition, and it affects both women and men. Just because we can empathise with the men more does not mean that we have to deride the women at the same time - we are perfectly capable of respecting the impact of the issue on women whilst campaigning for the rights of the man.

Not doing so makes us look like the extreme side of feminism that espouses "kill all men" and "men are trash".

[–]destarolat 52 points53 points54 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

You are missing the point completely.

Nobody is saying societal organization 100 years ago was perfect and we should go back to it and never change it. Nobody is saying this.

What we are saying is that feminists created a historic lie to get privileges and fuck over poor women and most men. What we are saying is that the standard feminist version of history that is tough in most schools is an absolute biased lie. And not an innocent one, but a purposely engineered lie to change society for their own profit at the expense of poor women and most men.

That is the problem we are pointing out here.

Edit: also, the societal roles back then were not arbitrary as most labor was manual and required strength. So they were not an oppressive imposition of the "Patriarchy" bogeyman, but more like a logical division of labor.

[–]Criket38 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]r0tekatze -27 points-26 points-25 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

No, I'm not missing the point at all.

What you're describing is not feminism, it is the misuse of feminism as class warfare. Upper class "dignitaries" did indeed misuse the idea of feminism to reinforce a pre-existing societal structure, but this misuse is not solely the blame of women, or of so-called "upper-tier feminism". It can easily be attributed to a filter-down effect of upper class lifestyle and morals, which is completely different.

Yes, modern feminism still carries quite a few of these traits, but that is not a deliberate act. Traditions play an important role in everyone's upbringing, and that includes political and politico-social beliefs. That's not a deliberate ploy, that's a misconception handed down through generations. That still doesn't mean that the women who might want to work and are prohibited from doing so are actively engaging in a ploy to keep society in it's place - that's conspiracy theory and victim complex, very much like the theory that "all jews are part of an organisation controlling xyz", or any other similar train of thought.

As for societal roles, that's simply a progression of x hundred years. If the previous x thousand generations of women beforehand don't generally do manual labour whilst the men do, the current generation is hardly going to be physiologically able to change that at the drop of a hat. That's not arbitrary, that's biology. If the division of labour were always equal, there would be far less physiological difference between sexes. You can still see this today, in people descended from working class lineages, who tend to be more wiry and naturally slim irrespective of sex. You can also see it in cultures where everyone has a lot of work to do to survive, such as in poorer parts of Africa where walking great distances is common for everyone. That still doesn't imply that the division of labour is logical, otherwise working class families would historically be just as divided. We know that this is untrue - through the formative years of the Anglo-Saxon era, there are accounts of both women and men doing the same work. There are also accounts of men and women from the lower classes taking up arms, and over the water there are accounts of Norse fighters consisting of men and women. In fact, the areas where division is most common are the areas where Abrahamic religions had significant strongholds, so if you want to put the blame anywhere, put it there.

[–]destarolat 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

What you're describing is not feminism, it is the misuse of feminism as class warfare. Upper class "dignitaries" did indeed misuse the idea of feminism to reinforce a pre-existing societal structure

Upper class women did not misuse feminism, they created it.

First wave feminists, the suffragettes, were very racist and classist. To the point that they would not allow black women to become feminists and openly advocated against black being able to vote. But racism was not all, they were extremely classist too. They denied membership to a white women because she was middle class, thus too poor for the feminists taste and though she would make them look bad.

Feminism was created by rich privileged racist classist white women. I fail to see how they could misuse it, when they created it.

Edit: All the examples you give of women doing hard physical labor are mostly anecdotic. It is just testament of the level of delusion over "muh equality" that some historians in reputable colleges are trying to shoe horn the idea that men doing the heavy labor is not due to physical differences, but due to religion or the patriarchy.

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Men don't want to do those jobs either, neither should they be forced to. Nobody wants to work a dangerous, shitty job.

The difference is that men do take those jobs because Men do what needs to be done, women expect society to be handed to them, they expect to be coddled.

Women get what they want and only what they want. Men are the reason we have a civilization, these jobs have to be done, women just expect them to be done and are given the unbelievable privilege of not being expected to do them.

Lines like 'women were never oppressed' show your immaturity and lack of historical understanding.

Now they show the reflection of reality, they show that I'm not drinking feminist koolaid. Yes poor poor women, staying at home not choking to death on mustard gas, it must have been women shot for not wanting to be enslaved for war, all while they didn't get the right to vote (oh wait that was men!).

Men have been deeply oppressed throughout history but in different ways.

Let me put this into phrasing you can understand, Men have always had it orders of magnitude worse than women. For most of human history it has been rough for everyone, but men always sheltered the brunt of it. Men and boys have always been used as the tools that made society for women and children safer.

If "Women are oppressed" then Men are the most mistreated group to ever exist in human history.

Men have been deeply oppressed throughout history but in different ways.

Yes, and 100% of them have been ignored by Feminism. Feminist patriarchy theory states that all Men and all boys are oppressors - robbing them of their humanity and casting them as subhuman monsters - and that all women and girls are innocent and oppressed.

We should be getting to the point of understanding that pretty much all working class people have been horribly oppressed, no matter their gender.

No, it's been almost 99% men for all of human history, even now 92% of workplace deaths are men. There are no initiatives to get women into dangerous work, Feminists continue to hate and oppose equality at every single turn.

Instead we have people like you making ridiculous statements.

Oh no you're right, it's me and not the bigoted hate movement funded with billions upon billions of dollars. The same bigoted hate movement that says things like "All Men are Rapists" or "#KillAllMen".

Here's what Feminism looks like:

Feminist organization NOW (National Organization for Women) fights against default shared parenting keeping children from their fathers.

http://archive.is/DSVrA

Feminists attend meeting on Men's Issues and blow noisemakers in order to prevent discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4euzB0CAsCg

Feminists disrupt forum about battered husbands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodygTkTUYM

Feminism bang and stomp while disrupting a female speaker talking about Men's rights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yg-f7fC0Uw

Feminists pull fire alarm to disrupt meeting about Men's Rights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO_X4DkwA_Q

Feminists attack participants at University of Toronto discussion on men's rights making pig noises and verbally attacking anyone who nears the area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0

Feminists violently attack peaceful protesters spraying them with pepper spray, spitting on them, and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOCD_T9Qqpc

Feminism is the hatred of Men, and Boys and the women who love them.

[–]victorfiction4 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[+]____jamil____ -11 points-10 points-9 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

True, but rich and even high middle class women were 100% maintained. They did not even had to take care of the house or children as they had servants.

Yes, some people did enjoy being stuck in a gilded cage. However, if they ever lost their meal ticket, they often would be either destitute or entirely dependent on their family (if they were lucky).

The biggest irony of feminism is that poor and middle class women wanted to stop working

Completely ahistorical. Women were empowered by working in the factories during WWII and wanted to continue to work after the war, but were forced back in the home because of all the returning soldiers.

But feminists were mostly rich women completely out of touch with the common woman, so their demands were that of an entitled brat, and that was one of the main reason women rights advocates openly despised feminists.

How are you so out of touch with reality?

[–]Standard_Rules_Apply 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

wanted to continue to work after the war, but were forced back in the home because of all the returning soldiers.

All the returning soldiers?

World War One was one of the deadliest conflicts in the history of the human race, in which over 16 million people died. The total number of both civilian and military casualties is estimated at around 37 million people. The war killed almost 7 million civilians and 10 million military personnel.

Source: https://www.historyonthenet.com/how-many-people-died-in-ww1/

WWII by the numbers

Number of Americans who served in World War II: 16.1 million

Average amount of time each U.S. military serviceman served overseas during World War II: 16 months

Estimated number of people serving in World War II worldwide: 1.9 billion

Estimated number of U.S. soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines killed in battle during World War II: 292,000

… of U.S. troops who perished outside of battle during World War II: 114,000

… of U.S. troops wounded during World War II: 672,000

… of deaths, in total, sustained by U.S. forces during World War II: 405,000

… of U.S. military deaths as a percent of the total United States population: 0.4%

Estimated number of deaths sustained worldwide during World War II: 72 million

Estimated total number of European Jews killed in the Nazi Holocaust: 6 million

Estimated number of German Jews killed in the Holocaust: 125,000

Estimated number of Polish Jews killed in the Holocaust: 3 million

Estimated number of deaths sustained by Polish military forces during World War II: 123,000

… by French military forces during World War II: 213,000

… by British military forces: 373,000

… by Chinese military forces: 1.3 million

… by Japanese military forces: 1.3 million

… by German military forces: 3.5 million

… by Russian military forces: 11 million

Estimated number of British civilians killed during World War II: 93,000

… of French civilians killed during World War II: 350,000

… of Japanese civilians killed: 672,000

… of German civilians killed: 780,000

… of Polish civilians killed: 5.7 million

… of Russian civilians killed: 7 million

Source: http://www.wwiifoundation.org/students/wwii-facts-figures/

World War One was one of the deadliest conflicts in the history of the human race, in which over 16 million people died.

Estimated number of deaths sustained worldwide during World War II: 72 million

16 + 72 = 88 million people dead.

From 1914 to 1945 - ~88 million people died.

Women were empowered by working in the factories during WWII and wanted to continue to work after the war, but were forced back in the home because of all the returning soldiers.

All the returning soldiers?

How many millions never returned?

How are you so out of touch with reality?

[–]____jamil____ 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Standard_Rules_Apply2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I made the point. Your entire premise is that

"all"

these soldiers returned home and shackled their wives to the kitchen sink.

lol

I pointed out that millions of your soldiers didn't make it home to force their women to leave the factories and return to making them sandwiches.

They became widows.

Millions more of your soldiers that did make it home, didn't do so in one piece. But you might not be concerned with wounded veterans.

And some of the soldiers that made it back came home to an empty house because dear wifey poo couldn't honor her marital vows and wait for husband to return home. She had needs you see. Needs that husband wasn't able to fulfill while away so she found some eager dick who was all too willing.

And then there are those soldiers that did come home, in decent shape, to faithful wives, and what did they do?

They started romping like rabbits!! You see, many people died and populations around the world took a big hit. That's the whole baby boomers thing. Get it now?

So when Mary Sue is having another baby every 11 months, do you really think she wants to go grind away in some factory on swollen ankles? Are you seriously putting forth that her husband would not let her work in the factory? That she begged and pleaded to spend her days toiling for peanuts instead of being comfortable at home with her babies?

Come on now.

Here's the funny thing. I spent 15 years in manufacturing. Guess what? You do find plenty of women working assembly lines, packaging lines, hosiery mills, so forth and so on.

And most of them hate it. They bitch and complain about anything and everything. The work is too hard. Their feet hurt. They aren't paid enough to do what they do. On and on they whine about how horrible their job is.

They constantly need time off for one thing or another. And if you don't approve their request, they just call out anyways.

And dear God don't get started on the whole bullshit PC culture we live in. Everything offends them and requires a trip to HR for their weekly complaint.

Your premise that soldiers came home from war and enslaved their wives is nothing more than feminist propaganda.

I know you desperately want this to be true so you can continue competing in your oppression Olympics.

Feminism is a supremacy movement operated by terrorists using lies and propaganda to radicalize gullible people.

Do you support feminism?

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I agree that there have been such ocasions but where I live most of not almost all marriages were organised from both familie's parents and on the wedding day the couple was supposed to bring a bloody shirt to prove that they have had sex and thus sealed the marriage. There was no walk around since if the bride was not pregnant within a year the marriage in most cases was void because either the couple didnt consumate it or she ( Altho it could be the male aswell but it was assumed it was her fault because hur dur 15-19th century ) was infertile. We even had to study at literature class about 2 children being married and faking the blood with a simple nose bleed. It didnt end well. In most cases both the bride and the groom didnt want it but they had no choice. There are examples for everything ofcourse but lets stop pretending that it was somehow easier to be a man in the past.

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[–]duhhhh3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That there is a very MRA position. Watch where you make statements like that. Some men suck, but some women also suck. Many of these issues are people problems, not gendered issues.

You keep bringing up rape in your comments. In the US each year about half the victims of nonconsensual sex are men and 40% of the perpetrators of non-consensual sex are women (I can provide references), but the discussion is all about rape. Rape for statistical purposes has been defined as penetrating the victim. Few men are penetrated and almost always by other men. Each year there are about as many victims of "made to penetrate" (forced envelopment) as "rape" (forced penetration) but the feminists in the US only discusses one to make sexual violence look like a problem of poor helpless women that are victims of evil men. The feminist message is we need to "teach men not to rape" rather than give gender neutral consent education and education about cluster B personality disorders.

There is also a strong push to "believe women" when it comes to rape alligations rather than "investigate all reports". Men are being kicked out of universities and loosing their careers on the word of a single women with no evidence or even evidence she was actually the aggressor because universities and employers are afraid of feminists in this country. We have women going to the press saying "I said yes 20 years ago and Mr.X had sex with me, but I didn't mean it so Mr.X is a rapist" and they are being applauded for it. It was 20 years ago and Mr.X cannot defend himself.

Hence MRAs are at odds with feminists on the topic of rape. Rape is bad. Made to penetrate is also bad. Both should be investigated by the police in a gender neutral way when reported. Evidence is required for punishment of either. If the police instead find evidence of the accuser is lying and they have proof of fabricating evidence, false accusers should also be prosecuted. Psychological support services should be available for victims of rape, made to penetrate, and false accusations. Consent education should teach ANYONE can say no and it should be respected no matter who is saying no. ANYONE conceiving a child in an illegal sex act should not be given custody rights.

People who really care about equality should not be this much at odds.

[–]crazyladybutterfly2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i totally agree. i have been banned from a couple of left-wing communities for stating you can't punish a person without the proof this person has raped (it was about kavanaugh ). it's tragic something as serious as rape has been politicized. and i totally agree with you about "teaching not to rape", how do you think you can teach a sociopath that rape is wrong? he might cognitively understand it (they do) but he simply won't care. you might point out to legal repercussions but even in this case the rapist wouldn't care for several reasons. they think that by just educating boys they'll put an end to this which is ridiculous. i don't know a country where rape against females (minus maritial rape in some countries) is not seen as the lowest of the crimes. so i think it goes beyond culture in most cases.

[–]ReasonItOut 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

bullshit. most women had to work by age 12 or even younger. no different from the boys.

What a crock of shit, women did menial jobs, men fucking died en-masse being crushed to death in coal mines and the like - often abandoned when such events took place.

actually in some of those not-so-poor but not middle class families they made the girls quit schooling early and invested only in their boys education because they thought educating a girl was useless and this still affects many elderly women.

Those boys were also expected to be enslaved for war, when were women slaves? Oh never. How many women were executed for refusing to be slaves of war? Zero. How many women were forced to choke on mustard gas? Zero.

While women stayed in absolute safety at home young men were enslaved for WWII and Vietnam. Those young men didn't even have the right to vote. You'll note that Feminists love the 19th Amendment but hate the 26th, there's a reason they never talk about Men's suffrage.

Number of times women were enslaved for war without the vote: Nil. Zero. Nada.

now they couldn't foresee the future, but this is either the mindset of a sexist person or the mindset of someone who recognized an educated woman would have still had it much harder than a educated man.

Or they realized that men had the major job of making society better - for the sole purpose of making life better for women and children - and those boys were expected to die in the process. Men and boys were tools, women and girls were jewels, boys were enslaved in service of girls.

How many girls were expected to die on the titanic for the crime of their gender? None. They were rushed to safety, they were "higher class" than Men and Boys whose lives had no value.

People like Masabumi Hosono were shunned for daring to survive the incident while male. For a man to have his life while a woman did not made him a pariah.

Women are the most privileged group in human history and always have been.

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this is why few take seriously mra for shit like this.

first of all both men and women were oppressed. it goes down to class struggle.

second women had to work even when pregnant or generally sick.

third only middle -high class women didn't work and some actually had still shitty lives

fourth female workers got paid less in most factory jobs, on the other hand men got paid less in textile factories (at least in italy).

fifth women had to work and at the same time they had to obey the males of their family.

sixth cheating men giving their wives syphilids got no punishment.

seventh underage forced marriage was a thing. so a 12 yo could have been chronically raped by her husband.. on the top of that they were required to bear children in their adolescence and later late 30s both age ranges with high risks related to pregnancy and childbirth.

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No. Your original point was that women pretended to be oppressed while men were the real victims.

While in reality, men were indeed crushed by economic forces, but those same forces were just as bad - if not worse- for women. Women historically could not own property. Women historically were forced to raise children, even if they wanted to work a job. Even if the man wanted to stay home and raise the kids while the wife worked, it was not possible.

No one has ever said that the lower class was easy on either gender. However, systematically men have indeed have had far more independence and the ability to provide for oneself than women for millennia (especially at the lower end of the economic system).

Honest question, why do you think women been basically the only sex that have had to resort to selling their bodies (prostitution)? If women were in control of the money supply and had such easy lives, why wouldn't have there been any demand for male prostitutes?

[–]jacksleepshere 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]____jamil____ 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And I don’t understand how staying at home and not working is an indicator that they are oppressed

Are you that ignorant? First off, "staying at home and not working" is wrong on so many levels. The vast majority of women who were not allowed to do the same job as men also worked, but for far less pay. Then those same women were also responsible for all the house work as well as raising the children. Also, back then there weren't such things as vacuum cleaners or dishwasher or washing machines. All things were still necessary, but took a lot more effort and time to do. All done by the women, as it was considered "women's work". Your ignorance is vast. Please stay in school and please take some history courses (hell, Women's Studies courses would do you a world of good)

Men were forced to work or die, women worked unless they had a partner to provide for them for the most part

I won't disagree that this was the case. However, you frame it in such a stupid way. Men were able to work to sustain themselves and their family. If a women did not have a man to sustain her, she either ended up destitute or dependent on her family (if she was still on good relations with her family). Which would you rather have? Would you rather be financially self-sustaining or would you rather be completely dependent on a man, who might be an abusive, alcoholic (as many were)?

Yes, men had the choice to work or die. Women had the choice to depend on a man or die. I'm not sure how you think men are the victim in this case.

The workplace is a much more ethical and relaxing working environment today than it has been in the past, yet a large portion of women choose to be housewives and choose not to work because it still makes for a better standard of living

Yes, a non-insignificant number of women choose to not work. I would argue that gives them a "better standard of living", as generally those with more money have a better standard of living afforded to them and generally those with dual incomes have more money. Also, you make such a surface argument there. Why are these women staying home from work? Is it because they are lazy? Or is it because society has conditioned them to do so? In the vast majority of the cases, I'd argue it's due to societal pressures.

That said, according to the Department of Labor, 47% of the US workforce is female.

https://www.dol.gov/wb/factsheets/Qf-laborforce-10.htm

Doesn't sound like the bunch of lazy moochers you are making them out to be.

Compare that to the past and I don’t think they’d be complaining much about not working.

You continue to miss the point about why most women work and why they have fought for the privilege to work for decades. Because women want to be independent. They don't want to have to depend on a man. What about this do you not get?

[–]jacksleepshere1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

women’s studies courses wpuld do you a world of good

Can’t take this comment seriously at this point. And at what point in history were the vast majority of women wprking? I understand that women who worked got paid less than men, and often unfairly, but there were many jobs, labor jobs in particular where women couldn’t complete the same workloads as men. I worked in a factory with other men and women all on the same wage yet the men were given more physically demanding tasks while many women were given less demanding tasks. I’d argue that it wasn’t fair that I was on the same wage when I have to get blisters from both the cold and the heat, and get a bad back from lifting.

And it’s societal pressures on men that they have to work to provide, it’s not societal pressures on women that they shouldn’t be working.

Men were able to work? They were forced to it was that simple. Would you argue that historically men have been allowed to go to war and women haven’t, is that another example of oppression of women?

[–]____jamil____3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Can’t take this comment seriously at this point.

that's a convenient way of remaining ignorant. I didn't tell you to major in women's studies, but clearly you are completely ignorant of the women's history.

And at what point in history were the vast majority of women wprking?

Throughout all of history women were responsible for the home and raising children (unpaid labor), at least. That is, those that survived childbirth (which the rate of death during childbirth was relatively very high). In addition to all the housework, the majority of lower class women also had to work a low paying job being a wash-woman or maid or nanny or prostitute or whatever "woman's work" they were able to do in their area.

I understand that women who worked got paid less than men, and often unfairly, but there were many jobs, labor jobs in particular where women couldn’t complete the same workloads as men.

Neither you nor I know that is actually true, because women weren't allowed to work those jobs.

I worked in a factory with other men and women all on the same wage yet the men were given more physically demanding tasks while many women were given less demanding tasks. I’d argue that it wasn’t fair that I was on the same wage when I have to get blisters from both the cold and the heat, and get a bad back from lifting.

Sounds like you got shitty work conditions and you are blaming women instead of your employers. Sounds like you should have had better representation at your workplace and if you had a union you would have had more power to negotiate workload.

And it’s societal pressures on men that they have to work to provide, it’s not societal pressures on women that they shouldn’t be working.

Quite frankly, it's both. Until very recently one major reason why women weren't allowed in the workplace was because they considered a women in a job as taking the place of a man, who needed the job more to take care of his family (as if a woman didn't have the same obligations/problems).

Would you argue that historically men have been allowed to go to war and women haven’t, is that another example of oppression of women?

Yes, obviously. Duh. Do you know who is still fighting hardest for women to get combat positions in the army? Women. Women don't want to be treated like second class citizens. They want to be treated equally in all aspects of our society. Yet, the army still does not allow women in "combat roles" (which is ridiculous, as if medics or chopper pilots in a combat situation aren't in "combat"). Who runs the army? Men. Who appoints those men to make those decisions about what women can and can't do? Other men. Who benefits from being in combat roles with more opportunity to rise in rank? Men.

You complain that women aren't doing certain shitty jobs and then in the same paragraph you say women aren't physically capable of doing those jobs. Which one is it? You can't complain about women not doing those jobs if you don't allow them to do them. You can't say they can't do them if you don't give them the chance to prove they can do them.

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Most women had to work on top of taking care of the house and kids to supplement their husband income. Women not working and staying home was not the norm or the expectation for most women, only for a few privileged ones.

In fact, women rights advocates noted than when speaking with women at the time, one of their biggest wishes was that they wanted to stop working and be able to just take care of kids and house.

But feminism was a movement composed of rich privileged white women, so for them the wishes of the majority of women was not only unknown but irrelevant. That is one of the main reasons women rights advocates openly despised feminists.

But feminists had the money and the connections, and today we are hearing their fictionalized tales of fake oppression as reality, instead of the plight of the majority of women at the time, who's major wish was to being able to stop working.

[–]Leegeendeerie4 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]crazyladybutterfly -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

But feminism was a movement composed of rich privileged white women, so for them the wishes of the majority of women was not only unknown but irrelevant. That is one of the main reasons women rights advocates openly despised feminists.

do you realize women were also paid less?

also do you realize not all women wanted to live with their family?

do you realize many adolescent girls got raped by their adult husbands who they were forced to marry?

you're speaking false. feminists focused on female workers rights so to say they couldn't care less about female workers is false. they also pushed to let women to vote which means giving women workers actually the chance to have some political power which is important to have if you want decent working condition and a decent salary.

also it's not like they don't have state advantages. since years if a husband dies the state pays a small salary to the wife of the deceased person.

[–]Clemicus -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

do you realize women were also paid less?

Yes. Which was advertised in job advertisements.

they also pushed to let women to vote which means giving women workers actually the chance to have some political power.

There were two movements. You're mixing them up.

do you realize many adolescent girls got raped by their adult husbands who they were forced to marry?

The issue here is who was forced to marry who. The argument you're presenting is one sided, then you're topping it off with rape and using a weasel word.

The minimum age for marriage from 1837 (the previous reform was in 1753) was 12 for females and 14 for males. Anyone under 21 needed consent from a parent or guardian. So wouldn't that mean arranged marriages.

And if you want to read the Marriages Act 1836: http://ia600502.us.archive.org/21/items/183634Marriages.ABillForMarriagesInEngland/183634Marriages.ABillForMarriagesInEnglandCrop.pdf

the chance to have some political power which is important to have if you want decent working condition and a decent salary.

Women had political power before the vote. If you want an example, that'd be the 1911 fire that killed 146 -- 123 women, and 23 men. So you're not being truthful.

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I've got a theory about feminists, and it sounds crazy.

I'm starting to think that feminists are not capable of perceiving most men. To a feminist, the average man is invisible until something forces the feminist to acknowledge the man's existence. Like if he gets in her way. But then that man only exists for that short period of time, before disappearing again from the feminist's consciousness.

So when a feminist looks around at society, they are actually incapable of seeing the suffering of men because they cannot see those men. The only men feminists are capable of actually perceiving are the ones whose lives the feminists want. So wealthy, privileged men.

This means that a feminist is completely serious when they talk about male privilege because the only men that they can perceive are those men at the top "1%".

This is why, I think, it often feels like talking to a wall when talking to feminists. It's because their reality is so far from actual reality, that they cannot understand the truth. They literally can't see the men they don't envy.

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Hey - that’s a cause I can get behind.

I lost someone I really admired to stage 4 prostate cancer. He was in his 50s and it seemed like it came out of nowhere. We live in Canada and it was so advanced that our healthcare system declined to treat it. He had a pile of money and went to the US for treatment. He saw the best doctors and went through the most excruciating surgeries while being told his survival chance was something like 10%, but died anyway because the cancer spread.

It was heartbreaking. I don’t think anyone (men, women, purple or green people) should have to go through something like that. I just wish people would see the issue - like you’ve mentioned that we should be pouring more funding into prostate cancer because of the high mortality rate - instead of the rhetoric.

Edit: you guys are seriously downvoting a pro-cancer research comment because? ... kind of just proved my point above ⬆️

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Men have always been privileged

Comments

MakeBelgiumNetherlandsAgain

Title	Men have always been privileged
Author	vitollini
Upvotes	2746
Comments	222
Date	October 27, 2018 3:40 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9rrbzv/men_have_always_been_privileged/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-have-always-been-privileged.1184198 https://theredarchive.com/post/1184198