Comparing two posts on /r/relationships. One where a biological mother refuses to meet her long lost biological daughter and one where a biological father refuses to meet his. Guess how the responses differ?

handklap · 2018-06-23T11:45:15+00:00

"My wife rarely performs oral sex in me anymore"

Responses: "You need to be more romantic. Do more housework. Hit the gym, be more attractive, focus on her. She has every right to say no, don't pressure her".

vs

"My husband refuses to have oral sex with me anymore"

Responses:

"He is very selfish. You deserve better. Have you considered opening up the relationship or leaving him?"

DemonConsulting · 2018-06-23T12:44:11+00:00

Alright after reading through the posts there are a couple of things that stood out to me (besides the usual stuff on relationships that is more inclined to side with the woman and tells every OP to get therapy):

The way the woman's OP was worded makes her more sympathetic right off the bat. She describes in some detail how she was basically “forced“/ coerced into carrying out the pregnancy until birth and adoption instead of an abortion that she wanted but couldn't afford and how that whole 9 months experience affected her mentally and physically. (At this point already she probably has most people who went through or witnessed pregnancy and child birth on her side)

Reddit is notoriously opposed to the american brand of evangelical christianity so the whole “can't get an abortion because the family is religious“ also plays right into what sentiment.

Throughout the pregnancy I seriously contemplated committing suicide. The unwanted pregnancy was a humiliating and disgusting ordeal to me. It was a loss of control over my own body. I can't really explain it properly but I am someone with a lot of body image problems and struggled with an eating disorder for most of my life and the loss of control over my own body during pregnancy was really horrifying to me.

OP is basically seen as a victim of circumstance and outdated religious beliefs, the baby would not exist and have been abandoned if it wasn't for her family refusing an abortion (so she wanted to do “the right thing“), and any fault she had in getting pregnant she paid for by going through pregnancy and birth against her will + is still negatively affected by it (mentally) to this day.

Additionally the daughter in question seems to be just fine in her adopted situation (has an adoptive family even willing to meet with biomom so probably a good relationship there) and simply wants to reach out - there is no indicator of resentment/suffering on her part because of OP's decision and OP already made an entire list of how they would like to gently let her down while also providing any necessary medical information, etc.

Now in the man's story it's a bit different, especially in the tone of his story (and if he had worded it differently I suspect people might feel more sorry for him). He starts by saying he was a douchebag in a band (great way to get sympathy from reddit), then describes his casual fling stating to be pregnant and him simply telling her to get an abortion, then cutting contact. That is the whole “adoption process“ for him - no 9 months of pregnancy, no child birth, no religious family telling him he can't get an abortion, nothing. Then

Several years go by, and I honestly don't think about the situation. (...)

Again completely different from how the woman describes the effects the whole process had on her. He carried on with his life like nothing happened and it turned out pretty good for him in the end.

Then we come to the next big problem that is his child wasn't adopted - instead it just lived with mom, apparently no dad and/or child support while living close by, and now resents OP for abandoning her while having another family who he cares for. He calls this a “dodged bullet“, the daughter sees him as a deadbeat who should have been involved personally and legally (unlike the first OP's daughter who has her own adoptive family and seems to be doing fine)

So basicall what I am getting at is: aside from relarionship's bias on gender, the first OP is simply far more likely to get sympathy based on her story and circumstances + the fact that her child was legally adopted and isn't facing any negative consequences (that we know of) from not having a relationship with bio mom. The second OP is described in a much less sympathy-invocing light, not just from his own (lack of) consequences until now but also the fact that the child was/is worse off now and was not legally adopted by some nice family.

Deadbeat moms are often glorified as 'brave' women who made 'sacrifices', even when they don't want to meet up with their kids, they are viewed with sympathy.

It is pretty obvious to me that there was more of a “sacrifice“ on the woman's part in these stories (not able to get abortion, pregnancy, birth, contemplated suicide, mental health issues to this day) while the man faced 0 drawbacks until now (and says so himself) + the woman isn't a “deadbeat“ in the classical sense since her child was adopted by a presumably loving family right after birth (receiving the full support of two parents) while the man techncally is, even if he didn't know it/ didn't bother to check and the mother didn't contact him (His child grew up with a single mom and no contact or support from dad)

To me those stories are not analogous enough to prove your point because the circumstances are clearly different and imo the emotional respones are more easily explained by the simple differences in tone/content, with the first one predestined to gain more sympathy than the second. Maybe if the second OP had described his years of depression over the whole situation, some anxiety disorder from the pregnancy-scare or super strict parents who would force him to marry his hookup or be shunned from the community, it would be a bit more similar.

concacanca · 2018-06-23T12:10:16+00:00

Solipsism? I never used this word in my everyday language but the dictionary definition and how you are using it doesn't really match.

The stories are different in two key areas. One is which how they described themselves. I don't know why the male painted himself as such an asshole when he was talking about "not caring" about the woman he impregnated on whether she chose adoption or abortion. When you are going to tell a story which puts a negative light on you, you will get negative reactions. Simple as that.

The second key difference is how they react to the communication request. The female wants to respond back and to make sure that she covers all the bases to help her daughter. The male is contemplating on blocking the daughter and ignoring the communication request all together. Which I understand due to the dramatic nature of how the daughter contacted him.

The stories are not comparable.

kandyapplez · 2018-06-23T12:51:51+00:00

people respond differently when its a case of adoption vs. nonadoption

the first child DOES have a mother, the second child does not have a father.

ppl are also more likely to treat someone like a dick when they paint themselves as a dick.

lets actually compare same situations pls.

concacanca · 2018-06-23T12:06:17+00:00

Yes.

Women are wonderful effect and /r/relationships being a massive shitheap. You have to remember that the sub is even more female biased than society as a whole. It's a place of validation for women and castigation for men.

It's a reflection of society but an extreme one.

GoingTheDlstance · 2018-06-23T16:48:13+00:00

Giving a child up for adoption does not make you a deadbeat parent. It in fact does the opposite, relinquishes rights and responsibilities in order for some other family to provide.

I am not surprised that women are given more sympathy over this topic than men. I don't agree with it but it doesn't surprise me a bit.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-06-23T15:54:43+00:00

It’s not solipsism.

We forgive female lack of responsibility when it’s accompanied by the weakest of victim narratives.

Males must always be held responsible.

killallthenarcs · 2018-06-23T13:06:05+00:00

There are only three ways of dealing with conception that are approved by society. Abortion (not approved of by everyone but in general a workable thing) adoption (which is a formal process approved by a court) or taking on the responsibilities of parent. He has not successfully done any of these in response to the problem.

PhotosyntheticChad · 2018-06-23T16:17:20+00:00

But she’s stunning and brave. She’s a strong, independent and successful woman.

He’s some kind of incel, he doesn’t deserve a strong, independent and successful woman, therefore he’s a sexist pig and his daughter should get child support and something something misogyny.

ElbowStrike · 2018-06-23T16:49:31+00:00

Gynocentrism in action.

AstuteBlackMan · 2018-06-23T16:56:16+00:00

It's reality. Men are taught to suck things up and man up and women are given chances to escape their reality. But most people here will find examples as to why that's not the case or try to say there are major differences in the post. The main idea is still the same and society caters to women more than people think.

wracky272 · 2018-06-23T17:40:22+00:00

It baffles me that so many people hamster away at the fact the society holds mothers in better esteem than fathers. This isn't surprising, not even a tiny bit. Love for men is *always* contingent on their ability to provide.

ThorLives · 2018-06-23T19:17:20+00:00

I didn't read the story, and I know that sometimes RedPillers will exaggerate details to make a point...

But, I think it's also clear that there is a persistent bias against men in many situations. There is a tendency for women doing something bad as being interpreted as "she's a good person who did something wrong" whereas men are more likely to be seen as "he's a bad guy". It's similar to ways that people are biased against black people versus white people - e.g. a black guy smoking weed is seen as a lazy/criminal druggie, a white kid smoking weed is seen as a good kid just doing some recreational experimenting. (If it seems like I'm exaggerating, studies have shown that being male is a bigger hindrance in criminal sentences than being black.) Or the way parents see their child as "a good kid" - the neighbor-kid lead him into it and he wouldn't have done it except for peer-pressure. Meanwhile, that other kid is a "bad influence".

Hopefully, we can get to the point where everyone agrees that women are treated more leniently than men in many situations.

Electra_Cute · 2018-06-23T12:46:01+00:00

These "Blue Pill Example" posts on r/TheRedPill are fairly humorous to me for the reason that they always feel the need to reaffirm, further explicate their points and have a masturbation session about their "theory". Users do this on r/PurplePillDebate by presenting their "neutral" discussions - similar to what you are doing right now - and the purpose of this post is most likely just to have people engage in a masturbatory session about "double standards" and "female solipsism" etc.

People treat men and women different, should this not be "RP 101"? Why does this need to be hammered in ad nauseum? r/relationships is obviously a subreddit where more feminine personality types congregate. If the same call for advice was posted onto r/askTRP or r/RedPillWomen the script would flip into the same "double standard", but of course no one on here would start discussing "male bias", "double standard" etc. which is probably present on those subreddits and even is on here.

Also look at how the stories are presented and really ask yourself if they are identical. The top comment on the male OP's previous post will show you his general attitude too and maybe why people reacted the way they did to him.

Deadbeat moms are often glorified as 'brave' women who made 'sacrifices', even when they don't want to meet up with their kids, they are viewed with sympathy. Deadbeat dads on the other hand are viewed as lazy scum.

Did you happen to read this on an online news article?

rainisthelife · 2018-06-23T15:11:16+00:00

Yeah, sorry OP but those two scenarios are not comparable. The woman gave her child up for adoption, so that the child can live and be brought up by a stable family, which she could not provide. And now doesn’t want to meet her daughter because it reminds her of the terrible ordeal that she went through with pregnancy and childbirth. The man just left and abandoned. And his tone boasts about it. No one is going to offer sympathy for that.

Failed gotcha post.

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movielover2018 · 2018-06-23T20:10:51+00:00

Tragic. But yes totally women r so oppressed.

CatchPhraze · 2018-06-24T06:25:59+00:00

Devils advocate here but when you give a child up for adoption you take the steps to make sure that child ends up with parents and a support system. When you have unprotected sex with woman you don't know well and father offspring you don't take care of, you're not exactly being an ideal person.

It's not the same as if he'd given a daughter up for adoption because imho sense he hasn't even taken that step to make sure she IS in a good place with a support system, he's being selfish.

waxedmintfloss · 2018-06-24T09:47:43+00:00

If the child wants to reconnect, you should at least take enough responsibility to give them closure if nothing else.

Deadbeat moms may garner more sympathy because carrying and giving birth to an unwanted child may be traumatic in a way that it isn't for the man whose physical involvement was limited to busting a nut.

GridReXX · 2018-06-24T13:42:13+00:00

The women’s situation was more endearing to the reader.

She described her upbringing as tough, etc.

The man described his past as fun essentially.

Who knows who’s being more truthful.

But one person here is definitely better at eliciting support.

The bias started with the OPs style of engagement, more than anything.

consios88 · 2018-06-24T17:07:16+00:00

surprise surprise people are bias against men. Men have less reproductive rights but people feel more sorry for women. Wow this is so surprising I would have never guessed that society was gynocentric. Damn gosh darn it I cant believe it.

DareyFathom · 2018-06-23T11:32:17+00:00

I'm not going to read them, but I would guess the man gets eviscerated for the same decision that the female gets defended for by most everyone for hers.

wtknight · 2018-06-23T12:36:15+00:00

I'm not sure if it is "female solipsism" as much as it is society treating men and women differently. It's assumed that women are more fragile emotionally and need to be protected from situations that might emotionally trouble them, while a man who doesn't face up to an emotional situation is not "manning up" and therefore not properly fulfilling his role as a man. I personally think that they should both contact their children eventually.

KikiYuyu · 2018-06-23T17:09:31+00:00

My thoughts? That "mother" shouldn't meet her daughter for her daughter's sake. Her daughter would be much better off not knowing her. Meeting someone who currently still wishes they aborted you can't be good for your health. I'm honestly slightly more disgusted by her than him.

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