Is abortion wrong?

ianturpiesmoustache · 2015-05-18T16:50:49+00:00

Pro-choice. No good comes of forcing women to choose between being an unwilling incubator for a fetus so they can give it up for adoption, raise children they don't want, or get an illegal and dangerous abortion.

Whisper · 2015-05-18T19:54:16+00:00

"Wrong" is a word people made up. It means whatever we decide it means.

Moral codes are a social agreement we decide upon, not a feature of the universe we discover.

There is absolutely no point in arguing about whether abortion "is" "wrong". What we must discuss is do we wish to forbid it, and why.

LordOfWater · 2015-05-18T16:05:46+00:00

People squash insects all the time without a second thought. Doctors remove countless tumors everyday. But if you decide to remove an unwanted or defective fetus from your womb then you're literally Hitler.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2015-05-18T19:11:43+00:00

No?

Abortion is fine.

I'd favor making it a public service free of charge and readily available.

GuitarsAreGettingOld · 2015-05-18T16:55:25+00:00

100% pro-choice.

But I am also very anti-unwanted-pregnancies that make abortion necessary in the first place.

SirNemesis · 2015-05-18T19:44:21+00:00

First of all, I think there is no question that a woman's right to medical and bodily autonomy should allow her to have an abortion under any circumstance, except perhaps in the possible case where a late-term abortion is no less invasive than actually extracting the life baby.

However, I do believe abortion is generally undesirable because natural human life should not be treated lightly (fetus is certainly NOT a person, but it is still human life), because the process has its emotional and medical implications, and because the father might want to raise the kid. For this reason, I support good use of contraception, and also support the Vasalgel project, which will make contraception far easier.

Plugawy_Nedznik · 2015-05-19T05:12:32+00:00

I'm not going to read 169 comments but I'm fairly sure I'll be the only one here who is against it(unless the mother's life is in danger and yadda yadda).

To me, it basically comes down to this: if having a child with a certain someone is such an impossible concept that you're ready to abort, you should not be having sex with that someone in the first place.

ToshiroOzuwara · 2015-05-18T16:07:12+00:00

I think we need more abortions. A lot more.

TheChemist158 · 2015-05-18T16:49:46+00:00

I'm pro choice. I don't think we should value it as a human until it becomes capable of feeling (about 20 weeks). Prior to that it only has the potential to be human, but is not. So I think it is okay to abort for any reason prior to this point. After this point it should be reserved for emergencies.

APlaceInsideMyHead · 2015-05-18T19:20:47+00:00

I think abortion is fine. I also believe that it is a form of killing. I think it's hypocritical for pro choice people to say that abortion is not the willful killing of a living being. I, however, do not believe in a fundamental right to life. One must create value in their life, or there is no reason not to kill them (or to kill them either). I view abortion in the same way as I view killing someone who is in your way. The major difference is that one is legal and the other not (I do think that in general killing should be illegal, but abortion is an exception in my mind).

HappilySingleWoman · 2015-05-18T16:03:09+00:00

I think we can't force someone to give birth if they don't want to but I wish there was another way. Do you think artificial wombs might solve this problem in the future ?

ECoast_Man · 2015-05-18T20:40:13+00:00

Pro-choice, without any stipulations on that.

However, as an observation, while the vast majority of women I know have abortions for, at least from what I can tell, are perfectly normal reasons, I've heard tell of the 'multiple abortion' types. It's not even the multiple abortions, but the women who have had several as a means of birth control because she didn't bother to take her pills regularly or ensure condom usage.

That gotta be hard on both body and mind.

Sapacos · 2015-05-18T23:42:05+00:00

It's the modern version of leaving unwanted children to die in the woods.

I'm neither religious nor labor under any delusions of modern society being run by moral ideals so I don't really care either way.

However it is a form of high-class dark comedy to see abortion veterans argue against the death penalty and for the sanctity of life.

Kenee24 · 2015-05-18T16:14:28+00:00

It's wrong when it develops a nervous system and a rudimentary brain. Abort a clump of cells for all I care, but 20 + week abortions make me sick.

pickup_sticks · 2015-05-18T16:47:22+00:00

Sexual strategy is amoral amirite?

TheGreasyPole · 2015-05-18T19:30:27+00:00

I am pro-choice upon the basis that I believe what we call "a right to life" only applies to sentient beings.

So... Babies, Most Apes, maybe whales and dolphins are in. At some stage a fetus makes the transition from non-sentient to sentient. I am happy for science to try and find their best approximation of that line, chop 4 weeks off, and make the abortion cutoff at that point.

That's basically what we do now.

Within this ethical system abortion is moral, non-sentient beings do not have human rights. Pregnant females DO have human rights. Therefore pregnant females get to chose how to proceed. Whether she wants it to become sentient, and have rights, or declines to allow it to do so, which she has a human right to do before the cut off.

In this system, no one else can make this choice. Only the woman. Therfore some accommodation in paternal child support must be made in case of his disagreement (probably eliminating it be legally mandatory)... But she gets to decide on the kid.

It's watertight. You just need to accept the axiom that rights go with sentience, not humanity. And then go off and be nice to Dolphins and suchlike.

I can live without eating whale meat or visiting sea world.

adrixshadow · 2015-05-18T20:38:04+00:00

I have no problem with economically killing children so I have no problem with abortion.

LUClEN · 2015-05-18T20:41:29+00:00

I've had a serious dilemma with abortion for a few weeks now that I can not seem to reconcile. I stand by abortion when it is going to prevent a child from being brought into a world where they will not have a nice life and will be spared the experience of lifelong adversity. However, I recently read that in some areas there are more abortions than babies being born and I have a gut reaction that leads me to think this is not proper.

I'm not sure how one can be pro abortion but also be bothered by such high numbers of abortion, but I don't think it should be a form of birth control. That just comes across as careless on the part of the [would be] parents.

SOwED · 2015-05-18T21:59:02+00:00

I think it's a middle ground. For some reason, pro-life people seem to think that being pro-choice means you think abortion itself is a positive thing. No one in their right mind believes that. However, in the end, the outcome of the situation can justify a morally grey action.

And before I get "ends justify the means/how's your day going, Hitler?" responses, let me emphasize that abortion is amoral in my eyes. It sucks, but it's not wrong if the situation means it will make the mother, possibly father, and the child have bad lives.

Reginleifer · 2015-05-18T22:44:10+00:00

It occurs to me that no matter how wicked I may become, I can't imagine stooping so low as to kill someone for my personal benefit especially my own child. I mean if you can nitpick lying to get laid, and then turn around and advocate that..... you might need to reconsider your morals.

I've also never heard anyone in TRP speak of women in the same way TBP describes the unborn. If calling them children is hate, what is calling someone a parasite and calling for their death make you?

haircombsnightmare · 2015-05-18T23:37:52+00:00

I'm pro-choice. I wouldn't abort myself, but I don't like telling people what they should or shouldn't do. Even less do I like shaming them for it.

PetticoatRuled · 2015-05-19T00:19:37+00:00

Abortion is such a difficult subject.

Some people don't believe a fetus is a person with the full rights of a person until it's born. I believe otherwise, but even with that belief, I would never support a law that outlawed abortion.

Because an anti-abortion law would cause harm to many, and enormous societal change (and possible economic collapse).

Many babies are aborted due to abnormalities. Many due to the mother being drug-addicted or alcoholic. Many due to the parents not being able to afford a child/another child. Some due to the extreme youth of the girl. I have friends who've had abortions when they were teenagers and one when she was married, and I respect those choices.

For those who would bring in laws that make abortion illegal, would you:

be prepared to financially support all the children being born whose parents can't afford them?
go and scoop homeless children off the street and take them into your home?
take responsibility for those children who will be neglected, abused and murdered because for one reason or another, the parents can't care adequately for them or willfully neglect/abuse/murder kids they never wanted?
basically give up your life to care for the children with severe disabilities?
like to deal and care for children born with fetal alcohol syndrome (which is a lifelong condition)?
look after the women being punched and kicked in the stomachs by their partners who don't want the baby and are now hemorrhaging or fleeing for their lives?
take responsibility for all the deaths of women who tried to abort their babies by 'backyard methods'?
give up 75% of your income in taxes to pay for all the services needed for these children?

andrewisgood · 2015-05-19T01:18:05+00:00

I'm pro choice. Abortion is a tough choice, but I believe in body autonomy and no one gets to choose what someone should do with someone else's body, no matter what. It's the reason why I find most people would disapprove of a doctor murdering someone to give organs to 5 needy patients.

SerpOfZerk · 2015-05-19T03:09:33+00:00

Yes, but its convenient enough to preform and the benefits are quite great so we pretend its "okay" enough since the ends justify the means

cxj · 2015-05-19T03:55:47+00:00

100% pro choice, bordering on Chinese attitudes. Free abortions, free bc. Dont care if its murder or wrong, just want less human pollution/welfare trash/criminals. Feminism may actually have been worth it for roe v wade alone imo.

dallasdarling · 2015-05-19T05:57:10+00:00

Pro-abortion. Abortion, like controlling conception, is a good thing, has been practiced throughout human history, and is essential for safety, voluntary procreation with your chosen partner.

lolobviously · 2015-05-18T16:05:21+00:00

Just like how children basically dont have any rights, children that havnt been born yet have none. Thats because they cant do shit about it and society doesnt give much of a fuck. It doesnt make it ok.

GayLubeOil · 2015-05-18T19:17:53+00:00

You cant wash the blood of your hands once you decide to kill your own child. But to quote satanist Alister Crowley: Do as thou wilt.

Bakerofpie · 2015-05-18T16:57:31+00:00

What does this have to do with PPD? Abortion is not a sexual strategy. I'm pro choice, but I don't use that view to get my Husband all hot and bothered.

max_peenor · 2015-05-18T19:15:04+00:00

I personally have no moral problem with it, given some reasonable parameters, but it seems to fuck up women a lot. It isn't as easy a solution as certain political proclivities would want you to think.

OfSpock · 2015-05-18T21:06:35+00:00

I support abortion rights but believe it to be morally repugnant. So, like adultery, I would drop someone as a close friend if I found out they had done it. I don't think forcibly making women have children they don't want is a good solution either.

SlayerS_ThorZaiN · 2015-05-18T16:21:42+00:00

Abortions should only be allowed if the child has biological defects or when it threatens the life of the mother.

Abortion at the whim of a woman who impulsively had sex without protection and got preagant should be absolutely illegal.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-05-18T17:35:00+00:00

I believe in abortion til 24 months

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-05-18T18:31:30+00:00

This thread will be instructive to any foolish man who ever thought women naturally love and want babies. Women only have babies in patriarchal societies because they have no choice , given their druthers women would let the human race die out

Title	Is abortion wrong?
Author	Fuschia19
Upvotes	1
Comments	204
Date	May 18, 2015 3:59 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/36dpxb/is_abortion_wrong/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-abortion-wrong.282095 https://theredarchive.com/post/282095

Comments