Relapsing into TRP. Interested in being pulled to either side.

alreadyredschool · 2015-11-10T05:30:33+00:00

Look dude I love women, they are wonderful, not all of them but the ones I let in my life. They all treat me well and are a benefit to me. I also ignore all rants, blue pill examples and mra posts on trp. You don't have to believe every single thing, use your own critical thinking skills and do whatever is best for your life.

Emotional weakness is not attractive, but it builds rapport.

About your confidence, do you hold eye contact like a pro? Do you have a dominant body language? This already makes a huge difference.

High standards are a stupid way to protect yourself from getting hurt, I don't even know why you would let TRP dictate your standards for you.

Pure masculinity sucks, in looks and character it's the same: pure masculinity - exhausting, pure feminine - annoying, nothing of both - boring, both or strong masculinity with strong feminine markers sprinkled in - extremely attractive. You need a balance at 80% or so.

the_wandering_mind · 2015-11-10T01:58:28+00:00

First of all, throw out the myth of the "perfect guy". It's killing you, dude. Do some girls believe in this same myth? Sure. Does that mean you have to fall into the same trap? No.

I'm not going to tell you to "be yourself" instead. That just feels defeatist and pointless, right? Why just keep being the same thing? That's not good enough. You should always be trying to get better.

But, be better for whom? Here's the answer: For you. Not for the girls who let themselves be fooled into fucking the PUAs, and certainly not for the dudes who let themselves be fooled into idolizing the PUAs. You've already identified that you don't want to be a TRP woman-hater, and that's something that you want for you, right? You can't stand the idea of being one of those guys, and you're an awesome person for coming to that conclusion.

The saddest thing about TRP is that it preys on the insecurity and pain of men and convinces them to push it outward, to find someone to blame it on, namely women. In doing so, it ensures that those men will never truly resolve those insecurities or heal themselves of that pain. They just numb themselves to the potential love and support of the people around them. I guess if you don't feel then you can't hurt, but at what terrible cost? They never get to truly know the most important person in their lives: Themselves.

Meditate. Figure out what makes you tick. Push yourself to do the things that you discover truly matter to you, to improve in the ways that will make you value yourself as a person. Once you start doing that, you'll notice that your self-worth is no longer dependent on whether or not you can score some drunk pussy over the weekend.

Then, you can wait. You can wait to connect with the women in the world with whom you can have a truly mutually-satisfying, mutually-desired fuck. Oh, it'll still be complicated. That's people. Nothing worth having is ever easy or risk-free. The terpers try to tell men that relationships can be simple and non-scary if you just ignore your partner's feelings and chuck them if they complain. I guess, if you're going to call that a relationship. But it's a classic case of moving the goalposts and claiming victory. That kind of relationship is a feeble ghost of what can come from true, mutual understanding. But the idea that that kind of thing is possible scares the shit out of the terpers, because if it was it would mean that they're the saddest bunch of people ever. So, they deny its reality in the face of all evidence.

You can't expect to show up at a bar each weekend and find that kind of person. So, don't try. Get to know, accept, and value yourself, keep pushing yourself, and the rest will follow. I know it sounds scary, but there really is no other way.

exit_sandman · 2015-11-10T08:54:54+00:00

Even if I was ablt to "man up" and become the perfect guy, its hard to imagine not feeling your relationship with women die out. If you need to be so high in standards to have a relationship, what's the point of having one?

You just explained the reason for the commitment-phobic mindset. If you have to be so incredibly high to reliably be able to register as a partner in the eyes of women, why exactly should you be willing to let yourself be locked down by a single woman who is used to her vagina being a sufficient qualifier for relationships?

Patrice O'Neal had a nice rant on that subject.

caesarfecit · 2015-11-10T01:57:35+00:00

Read Mark Manson. To me he is one of the best examples of purple pill sanity.

TRP has a lot of over-compensating guys trying their best to be edgy and hold frame, and a lot of times it delves into unwitting copies of Chappelle's "when it keeping it real goes wrong", or a soapbox for their preferred loony ideas about why the world is fucked. My last straw with TRP was when I reported some Holocaust deniers and the mod practically acted like I was the problem. A few angry messages back and forth and I was banned and muted. Gotta hold that frame eh.

You're right to walk away from TRP - they're a bunch of broken records, who even if they get over their negativism, will just slide into paranoia about women.

Mermaid_Splashes · 2015-11-10T08:09:27+00:00

You're right that women love confidence and dominance, but like others have mentioned, too much of it to the point of being devoid of emotions is just as bad as the overly supplicating, stereotypical "beta" type of guy. Sure, it might get you laid, and it might even get you into a relationship with an emotionally immature, needy woman, but it seems like you want more than that. The Red Pill often mocks people of both genders for having feelings ("feeeeelings"), and derides women for making decisions based on emotions (as if men never feel compelled by emotions, or women are incapable of logic). Some red pill guys want to avoid getting hurt, and are willing to become emotionless husks because they're only interested in flings and short-term relationships. And that's fine, if that's their cup of tea. But if you want something more serious, I would avoid going full-on red.

I can only speak for myself, but I think a lot of women are like me in finding a man who tempers his masculinity with compassion, his joy with sorrow, his humor with sincere thoughtfulness much more attractive than constantly "holding frame." And when I say "attractive," I don't just mean for long-term companionship, but sexually as well. Women who don't appreciate deeper emotions probably wouldn't hold your interest for very long either.

I will add one thing that I somewhat agree with TRP on (although it's not TRP specific): it's a good rule of thumb to let out your deeper, more emotional side out little by little to make sure the person you're with is worthy of seeing that side of you. But this is true for both genders.

midnightvulpine · 2015-11-10T01:54:49+00:00

If you're worried about fitness, there are likely dozens of related subs that can help you keep in shape. As noted in your comments below, you're not interested in spinning plates, looks like. So really, what does TRP do for you? Why does it matter? Sounds like you have no care for some elements that are commonly considered part of traditional masculinity. So why bother with yet another relic related to it?

wombatinaburrow · 2015-11-10T05:46:45+00:00

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz3qqyUPqfh

Check it out. Health and self care without the hate and shaming.

energyvolley · 2015-11-10T22:11:45+00:00

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GayLubeOil · 2015-11-10T03:42:25+00:00

If you never deadlifted 315 pounds you never Red Pilled.

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2015-11-10T10:14:47+00:00

TRP does not hate women, we hate the lies we are told about women. Sounds like you are projecting your own anger and blue balls.

I don't like being very masculine. I don;t like being around very masculine people. I cherish other people's weakness and try to help out if able. And as an early 20s guy in college, I feel too lost to gain confidence.

yup. whiny, effeminate man who literally avoids masculinity, but understands that women crave it. You understand that TRP is true and accurate, but refuse to take the necessary steps to use the knowledge. Knowledge is not power, it is potential power, and you are wasting all of that potential. Imagine the thousands of other men who would kill for the chance to access this info, and weep knowing that the best you can do is to rationalize your own failure.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2015-11-10T02:00:01+00:00

This post really got to me.

I would suggest the following: forget about TRP, TBP, and the internet for a while. Do some reading instead. Get some positive psychology in your life. Get your brain and emotions straightened out and working for you.

Start by watching this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyhOmBPtGNM

Then reading this:

http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339

And this:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-practice/201301/cognitive-restructuring

And then step back and realize the beneath all society's bullshit, beneath all the posturing on the internet, most women... but not just women, most people... spend a lot of time being confused, unconfident, aimless, and feeling like they are not enough of a man/woman.

Maybe none of the shit I put out will work for you, but if you keep looking, I guarantee something will. You just have to actually commit to changing and go about it as smartly as you can -- work smart, not hard! Get help from experts (psychologists, really accomplished people), and read a lot, and at some point, you'll really start to digest the fact that life isn't as complicated or hard or stressful as we make it out to be, and what other people think of us is a lot less important than we make it out to be... and that yes, you can accomplish shit if you actually put your back into it.

Stop worrying about what you're not, and focus on who you are and where YOU want to go in life.

gavinok · 2015-11-10T01:22:01+00:00

Why do you not like being masculine? Do you want to have casual sex with girls?

SkinnySweaty · 2015-11-10T04:09:36+00:00

The thing you're struggling with is that TRP is too simplistic to be realistic. "Men are like this, women are like this", end of conversation.

You, however, are a bit more complex than the black and white world that TRP creates. So are 95% of the people out there, and this is why TRP ultimately fails.

Take the parts you like, leave the misogyny and simplistic bullshit behind. Your humanity cannot be cramped into a one-size-fits-all box, celebrate that fact.

EmpressofMars · 2015-11-10T06:00:56+00:00

Hi there! So glad that you're interested in learning more about both sides of the coin before choosing one way or another.

Confidence is tough, I get it, especially when the media and everyone around you is telling you to be the perfect "dominant alpha male" who's ripped and handsome and gets alllllllll the ladies. But you gotta do what feels right and feels best for you.

You said you don't like being very masculine. That's 100% ok! You have the right to be happy, and if acting super macho and dominant doesn't make you happy, don't do it! As long as you aren't hurting anyone, I am a firm believer in "do what makes you happy."

The "perfect guy" is a myth. It's an unattainable, unhealthy idea. This is going to sound super cliche but from my perspective at least, a guy who is kind wins more points than a guy who does P90X all day every day. Pure masculinity will in my book always always come behind kindness, intelligence, thoughtfulness and the ability to be articulate, if masculinity even ranks at all.

Now some will probably come barging in saying that choosing to act this way makes you "beta." Pardon my French but, FUCK THEM! The whole "alpha-beta" dynamic alway seemed like a crock of shit to me, and while not acting "~alpha~" may not be a pathway to "sexual success," being happy with yourself and acting in a way that makes you joyful and proud to be you is in my opinion much more important. Being content and at peace with yourself trumps getting laid any day.

Also, side note: those "highly built guys" will 99% of the time become not so physically impressive middle aged men. Beauty fades, but character and being a person you're happy to be is forever.

RacialRealism · 2015-11-11T05:42:15+00:00

As far as I've seen, TRP is correct on most points on relationships. I still think its stupid they hate women (let's not mince our words here) and think they're little more than cattle, but everything else seems accurate, especially when you look at media made for women.

Do you think all 130 000 TRP members get together on a friday night to decide what they do and don't hate? So a few guys are butt hurt virgins that hate women? I certainly don't hate women and I know there's a lot of others who don't either.

You are still unplugging clearly, you some how think TRP is "evil". The thing I like about TRP is everyone's opinion is just that, an opinion. Nothing is taken in as law.

mashakos · 2015-11-11T13:22:20+00:00

-Women seem to not be attracted to emotional weakness, although I'm a bit skeptical on this point.

humans are not attracted to emotional weakness. A woman crying with her friend is very, very different from a tear streaked man blubbering about the hardships of life to his partner. Women let off steam and process things with each other in various ways that are subtle/alien to men. Do not mistake a woman being emotional with her best friend as a breaking down and reverting into an infantile state. A woman can shed tears when she is angry, frustrated, disgusted ... there are many nuances, not every expression of emotion is straightforward when women are together. Men on the other hand, it's pretty clear cut - you cry, you are unable to deal with responsibilities or difficult situations. In some instances that is acceptable: if you volunteered in a third world country and saw a child dying from malnutrition, or if your friend/relative died in a car accident. Crying because you had a bad day at work? That is scary to a woman, tells her you don't have your shit together.

haircombsnightmare · 2015-11-11T14:56:04+00:00

You're enclosing yourself inside one idea. The reasons why only you know, and it's up to you to discover what dragged you into them. The most important thing is that you feel sad about what you're doing, which is rarely good. I ask you to consider that there are more possibilities.

ozaku7 · 2015-11-11T19:06:15+00:00

I think that TRP men mostly blame themselves for what happens and not the woman. So it's rather about self-improvement. I don't agree with everything, but most of the time they are spot on.

Become the man that a woman wants, and that includes someone who would leave her if he isn't happy.

Xemnas81 · 2015-11-13T02:52:30+00:00

Let's deconstruct aspects of your post.

Is this need for pure masculinity especially important?

No. The need for positive masculinity is if you're a feminised bluepill pushover with no Frame and pussy on the pedestal. Sexual dimorphism is real, but all humans seek asexual virtues too.

Women love highly built guys. They don't like their lack of commitment

Yes, most, particularly during their 20something Party Years when they're peak SMV. The SMP is on hard-mode for you right now, but you can make it easier for yourself if you're willing to provide commitment.

http://therationalmale.com/2014/03/16/preventative-medicine-part-i/

Women love confidence in ways most men cannot understand.

The need for confidence in a man is derived from Hypergamy, the need for security. You should be familiar with this. Read Models if you haven't already. See also this post

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3sfwcv/are_personal_anecdotes_solipsism/cwx6ykj?context=3

Women love dominance, in and outside of the bedroom

No, women love that a man can be dominant in the bedroom, they love confidence (Frame, outcome independence and shit together) outside.

Women seem to not be attracted to emotional weakness

Hypergamy doesn't care. This doesn't mean women don't care about your feelings, it means it's unattractive to be negative or show too much weakness. You are familiar with the maternal/erotic spectrum?

Don't confuse weakness with vulnerability, which is profoundly attractive due to the female Desire dynamic (again covered in greater depth in Models and summarised above re: Investment Paradox). Also, vulnerability is relative to depth of relationship (despite 'hypergamy doesn't care about relational equity'-you will satisfy hypergamy if you hold Frame and SMV)

http://markmanson.net/vulnerability

http://markmanson.net/power-in-vulnerability

http://markmanson.net/manipulative-relationships

I don't like being very masculine

Then hold Frame and figure out what makes you feel happiness, confident, successful. Self-validation is attractive.

I don't like being around very masculine people

Manson Models Chapter 8: Demographics See assortment effect in this thread

I cherish other people's weakness and try to help out if able

That's not weakness, that's compassion and beta comfort traits for a provider role, which are long-term attractive in an 'awww cute' Good Dad way. You need this shit for the RMP, i.e. basically everything after your late 20s, and as a man you are hard wired to be protective. Why? Female Epiphany/Transition/Security phase, or "I've been burned by a bad boy-AMALT-maybe there's a good man willing to commit out there!" Shift from Good Genes to Good Dad traits prioritised. Combine both from a young age and you're gold!

http://therationalmale.com/2014/03/26/preventative-medicine-part-ii/

as an early 20s guy in college, I feel too lost to gain confidence

As another early 20s guy who's unplugged, I feel for you. Let's not beat around the bush here, insecurity is a huge turn-off to women, as is a victim complex (again due to hypergamy as well as internalised gender roles; there is so much opposition to the abolition of male gender role precisely because of the cognitive dissonance between cultural Marxist 'people are people' rhetoric and sexual dimorphism/female hypergamy).

Does this mean you will NEVER be confident? No, it means college sucked. It certainly did for me. It gets better, if you're willing to put the effort in.

I have a big ass reading list for you. If you are willing to learn, I can provide. It will save you from wading through the anger phase BS in the sub and help you begin your journey back towards the man-the person-you want to be. See my other posts on this thread too, re SMART goals

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2mcokc/comprehensive_red_pill_books_redux/?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3s7l69/relapsing_into_trp_interested_in_being_pulled_to/cwyerpn

You should definitely begin by reading No More Mr Nice Guy and Models

jdgrazia · 2015-11-10T02:01:53+00:00

women see beta qualities as footholds, or chinks in your armor. if you have no weakness they have no control. which is why a certain amount of emotion is valued by them.

What do you think the cave version of yourself did when he was sick of a girl?.. I highly doubt he kept protecting her and sharing his food with her before society forced him to.

Xemnas81 · 2015-11-10T01:08:04+00:00

Disregard bitches acquire protein shakes

Sepean · 2015-11-10T11:29:53+00:00

If you need to be so high in standards to have a relationship, what's the point of having one?

Raising children in a nuclear family and awesome, porn-level sex on tap does the trick for me.

wtknight · 2015-11-10T11:59:48+00:00

I'm always baffled by men who think all women are the same. I've talked to lots of women and they all seem so different to me, much more so than men. Some women want exactly what TRP says they want. Others think that this type of man is vain and shallow and want somebody with emotional and intellectual depth first. Just talk to lots of women and eventually you'll meet some who click with you. TRP is more of a shotgun approach to attracting the "average woman" because their main goal is to be able to get as many women to have sex with them as possible. If you are looking for a relationship then the best approach is to improve your strengths and then to find somebody who appreciates your strengths.

treebog · 2015-11-10T02:11:45+00:00

TRP appeals to people with low confidence and bad social skills. Not thinking of women as humans is a great way to gain confidence around them. TRP "game" is designed to show the least amount of yourself possible, so people can't fuck it up. Think about it. The core advice is:

be physically fit (actually good advice)
shut up and don't run your mouth
don't show any emotion because women don't like that
be an "alpha". Act like you are superior to everyone else.
navigate shit tests (attempts women make to try and get to know you better) by revealing as little information as possible. Keep up the hyper masculine charade.
"maintain frame". Remain stoic.

Think of how a women view someone who behaves like this. They know nothing about him, they only think he is attractive and confident. That is sometimes enough for a quick hookup but women will leave once they figure out he is a shell of a person.

Make yourself into a person who is confidant, but still respects other people. Make yourself in to someone who can show emotion when appropriate. Don't fall for this stupid hook up game for social rejects.

Title	Relapsing into TRP. Interested in being pulled to either side.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	9
Comments	235
Date	November 10, 2015 1:05 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3s7l69/relapsing_into_trp_interested_in_being_pulled_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/relapsing-into-trp-interested-in-being-pulled-to.278548 https://theredarchive.com/post/278548

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