Why do you hate feminism?

GayLubeOil · 2014-05-24T04:25:14+00:00

People hate feminism because they are not allowed to publicly speak out against it without a serious backlash. As a result men hold in that resentment and bottle that shit up until it can be safely released in a male space.

[deleted] · 2014-05-24T04:32:12+00:00

[permanently deleted]

whatsazipper · 2014-05-24T20:07:24+00:00

"it's about muh equality" When was the last time you saw a feminist fight for women to be drafted as well, or be sentenced equally to men? You don't simple as that

ICWilfred · 2014-05-24T01:34:42+00:00

You mean there is no true scottsman?

LuperFlipino · 2014-05-24T04:06:39+00:00

I don't agree with Feminism because theres so many different sects, waves, and subcategories that sometimes contradict with each other. There are things that I agree with Feminist values and there are some that I feel like total bullshit, and because of that I cant agree with the whole Feminism movement.

asd1100 · 2014-05-24T10:01:13+00:00

when i say I hate feminism I am refering to the most commonly understood concept within the medium I use it. I understand the risk of being misunderstood, but unlike non internet people, when we use the word "feminism" it is perfectly reasonable to think of jezi, SJW and tumblerettes.

Now, i think from a legislative standpoint gender should not be mentioned. Any preferential threatment is abusive. I think a woman is eclusively responsible for her body(and fertility) for the whole duration of a pregnancy. And support for underprivileged women in teocracies is a valid concern.

But what I personally find abhorrent about feminism is that it ruins the lives of the average woman. It moved what is considered a satisfactory life for a woman so above what is reasonably achievable that your average feminist(not the tumblr psycho) will never be satisfied with herself. the career woman will feel lonely, the mother will feel unsatisfied, the career mother will feel she didn't have enough fun and wasted her life.(yes these are common existential issues within a western society, but the wide spread of feminism validated and universalised those concerns and created a epidemic of existential angst)

Compare this with the body image issue(not the extreme cases, those are mentally unhealthy people body image is just a outlet). A fat chick can either get fit(which is healthy for her) or lower her standards date a beta and have reluctant sex for the foreseeable future. A feminist "can not" give up feminsm, it is stage of self awareness, you can not go back in the closed. Now if the rethoric would be limited to legitimate issues, they could continue with their life as usual, but they internalise all of the rethoric and make subsequent life choices based on them. They reject on principle a (healthy) red pill relationship(because that is not equality), she will fight like a man in the workspace(which will take up most of her time and energy with 70% of the results). She will postpone having a family (until it becomes extremely risky or might not happen at all, also young parents are better parents in general and can always have the option to raise more than one child). She has the convitcion that being sexually promiscuous is "empowering", because "the patriarchy doesn't want her to be a slut and fuck that shit!", which beside the health risk it also has takes a emotional toll in a period where you are still emotionally underdeveloped.(men have the same risk, just that even a red pill adonis has a reasonable number of partners compared with the average "party girl")

TL,DR I hate feminism because I feel sorry for feminists.

sh1v · 2014-05-24T18:46:33+00:00

I'm a feminist. Yes, I know the wage gap isn't real (or at least it's not as bad as 70 cents to every dollar).

That puts you in the minority, wouldn't you say? The wage gap, glass ceiling -- these are very mainstream ideas among feminists, seems to me.

I realize not every feminist is an SJW, but the entire movement seems to be radicalizing by the year. Nominally, feminism is still about equal 'rights', but the definition of rights keeps shifting ever more into the affirmative. The right to vote became the right to equal status and jobs, regardless of effort.

analt223 · 2014-05-24T21:02:55+00:00

I dislike feminism for a few reasons, anecdotal and statistical

Anecdote: Working at a job, girl (self identifying feminist and liberal, what I believed in at the time....although im still liberal in economic policy) claims she likes me. Turns out she just uses me to get back with her ex within a day of having sex with me. Ya I know guys are supposed to be like "well at least I got some sex yo", but I always felt taken advantage by her. Maybe I sucked in bed, maybe i didn't but it still made me feel like I was used. I then realized if a guy did that to a girl she could easily accuse him of rape and him go to jail real fast.
They constantly lie (this is why I hate almost all ideologies today) about "facts". Women do not make 77% of what men make. I'm sorry, but a female pediatrician is lumped in with a male brain surgeon for the doctor category. Yes, I do think a brain surgeon (who is more likely to be male) deserves more money than a pediatrician (more likely to be female). Even though both are considered doctors. If you want to encourage more women to become brain surgeons fine. But don't say there is some pay gap because certain sub fields women enter in a job are less valuable than ones men enter.
Feminism refuses to acknowledge that women must change if they want feminism to actually work. Meaning, women no longer are entitled/going to always find a man whose older and makes more money than her. If women want positions of power (which I'm fine with), they are going to have to accept men "beneath them in status" as mates. Men have been doing this for thousands of years. Women now have to as well. Otherwise, the concept of a middle class family will deteriorate, as their will only be rich and poor families. Women still dont want to date/marry down. Women want to be equal with men, but they sure as hell dont want the men who they are equal (and definitely not below them) with. Studies have shown that women are more likely to divorce a man if hes the stay at home parent while she works.
Feminism claims they want men to express their emotions and what not, but honestly its only if it coincides with feminist values. In other words, I can express my feelings, but they better be feminist feelings.

These things are just a tip of the iceberg. Feminism just doesn't really work. Or maybe its just the current "issues" that feminism is fighting for doesn't really work.

NoFatChicks88 · 2014-05-24T23:22:28+00:00

I know a couple feminist gals that are totally reasonable and get along great with men.

The problem with feminism is that we've spent all this time understanding the issues they put forward but no one bothers to spend the time to understand men's issues in today's world. They throw around a lot of stupid buzzwords like patriarchy, rape culture, and male privilege. I don't deny male privilege exists, but feminists completely neglect the existence of female privilege. It's basically the hypocrisy that gets men angry at feminism, but of course any group/organization is filled with different kinds of people.

tryin2figureitout · 2014-05-25T02:58:15+00:00

Oh, I want to join the discussion!!! 31m here. College educated blah blah blah.

I actually joined reddit a couple months ago specifically to read about feminism and talk to feminists. I was sitting around thinking about life, love, and relationships. Basically wondering to myself if and when I was going to get married and what I should be looking for. I thought, "my old way of thinking didn't work I need a new way". So I thought I need to speak to some educated aware women that know what they want. Then I thought feminists! That'd be a good place to start so I Googled feminist forums and found reddit. So I came into this having a positive impression of feminists, then I read some of there posts, now I hate them. They lead me to RP and now I'm RP.

The first thing that turned me off was their insistence that the friendzone doesn't exist. A bunch of woman that have never experienced it telling us all its a scam. Worse than a scam a male driven manipulation. Wow. A pretty stupid manipulation considering how painful it is.

Then was their feelings on nice guys. Such animosity. And a complete lack of understand on how someone becomes a nice guy and their thought processes. Again they interpreted this as a manipulation. Cause, you know, what's a better way to get a girl in bed then being a nice guy?

So they actively distrust nice guys but are completely enraged at the concept that women are attracted to assholes.

Then they use rhetorical devices like "mansplaining" , "check your privilege", and "educate yourself" to apparently automatically win any argument. Kinda like the way Fox news uses "class warfare" to win their arguments.

They almost willfully misuse statistics and seem perfectly content when misinterpretation happen in their favor. They never include stats that show a broader picture or cut away from their central theme. In essence they cherry pick info. Wage gap for instance.

They are openly hostel to any idea that they are responsible for there own safety. Anyone pointing out, for instance, how a woman can avoid being raped is labelled a rape apologist. I could not imagine teaching my daughter that whatever happens to her is completely out of her control. But the thinking goes, if a woman has a responsibility for her safety and then something bad happens then some will put some blame on her. We can't have that so woman have no responsibility! See we fixed it!

They did not encourage male participation. And for all their talking about feminism being good for men as well I didn't see a single thread that dealt with male issues. I found it to very insular, caustic, angry and prone to group think.

N0ty0urHuckl3b3rry · 2014-05-23T23:47:40+00:00

I know not all feminists are like that. Sound familiar? The problem is the squeaky wheel gets the oil. So while there are moderate members of the movement they are shadowed by the louder and fewer radicals. That's true of every group. Muslims, Christians, Right and Left wing nuts, even vegetarians. So I have no qualms with the "feminists" who actually want equality. But they never say anything because we are pretty much equal at this point with women slightly ahead. When I'm not the mobile I'll link something. On to your pics listed. The first one demonstrates not only a feminist view , but a societal norm. No matter what women think they are above being struck, even when they strike first. I was taught that when you are hit it is a person hitting you not a woman or a man and you defend yourself. I don't condone walking down the street randomly punching chics. But that is a view point that will most likely not change. And that leads me to your second picture. I have to ask. Is it that big of a deal that some people want you to shave? I mean some people want me to stop wearing shorts cause I'm so white I blind them. I mean really. It is another social norm that will never change and it has no bearing on life. "Shave your pits and I'll cure cancer" said no one ever! You don't want to shave? Two things need to happen. One, you not give a flying eff what other people think. Its not for them. Two, understand that is going to hinder your dating pool. Because some guys don't find that attractive and that is ok. Well, unless you're wanting to police peoples preferences. (See your not being forced to find fat people attractive). Whoo ok now to that last part. I'll admit I have never even thought of that, but that MIDDLE SCHOOL student listed some pretty hard evidence. Also that evidence helps the "women have it better then men" argument. Women aren't eligible for the draft. That's a biggie. I hear people can get shot whilst in the armed forces. That says to me "hey we want all the reward and none of the risk". Why don't I hear feminists wanting to bridge that gap? Its because we think hairy arm pits are gross isn't it? To tell the truth I haven't heard on feminist, radical or not, try and educate people on the ways women do have it better, much less actually try and change it. But your eyes gravitate downwards and there will be hell to pay. In closing women are not second class people and the movement is mostly circular logic based on issues that really don't stand a chance of changing. I hope that helps. Btw on mobile I apologize for mistakes.

IIHotelYorba · 2014-05-24T02:46:39+00:00

Of course not all feminists are the same. The issue is that so many core ideas come from the same seed of bigotry. I've posted several versions of this spiel but it goes like this: there are very few versions of feminism that don't have ideas that are ultimately necessitated by patriarchy. There are few feminist depictions of patriarchy that are just an archaic form of societal organization and not something inflicted by men (who are evil and sadistic) on women (who are weak victims with no agency) as a class.

Think about it. Do you think women's roles are changing, or are they actually behind? If so, did it come from necessity, or did someone put them there? Who put them there? Is the answer ultimately men?

tetrahydrous · 2014-05-24T15:52:23+00:00

Because Feminism at its core is a sham, a giant shit test that the men of Western society have failed and now we must suffer the consequences. Gender equality was a ridiculous concept to begin with that only can exist as an abstract concept in a 1st world modern democracy.

totes_meta_bot · 2014-05-24T00:42:00+00:00

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imissedaword · 2014-05-24T01:57:00+00:00

Here's what you don't realize: many people first heard about feminism from something like bra burning. Feminism for a generation of people is women on the front lines, or the BC mandate, or affirmative action policies. The first person I knew my age who described herself as a feminist would say stuff like believing in climate change required more abortions; the government should pay couples who get abortions; the higher a country's divorce rate, the more free the women were, and more. She seems popular with other feminists. I can only assume these women agree more or less with her. Can you blame me for thinking feminism is pretty fucked up?

genericusername80 · 2014-05-24T07:01:13+00:00

I don't bother openly attacking feminism in real life - it's one of those ideologies where if you question it in anyway, it will ruin your reputation.

But here's what feminism means to me.

The more a woman self-identifies as a feminist, the more likely she's going to overreact to something I say or tell her friends that I'm being offensive. So... Steer clear. I don't want her as a friend.

Likewise, the more she identifies as a "feminist" the more demanding she will be in a relationship, setting expectations for me and doing nothing to earn my respect. So... Steer clear.

There's plenty of women I love and respect who identify as feminists... But that's because they aren't what I think of when I think of the women who loudly and obnoxiously tout their feminism. The more I hear that, the more it's just a signal that they have self-righteous contempt for men in general, and I don't want to be caught in that swath of destruction for the next man they decide to attack.

stubing · 2014-05-24T04:25:59+00:00

Question for you, OP. When you hear someone say they are a libertarian, do you automatically assume they are against welfare or social security?

648262 · 2014-05-24T10:14:21+00:00

I don't. It's like you said here already; there is a myriad of opinions on what feminism is. When it's that undefined I have a problem with people saying that they are a feminist because the statement is useless. So if I really want to know about their opinions I have to probe, or I can ignore the whole thing and think that people who call themselves feminists should not be taken seriously.

alexdelargeorange · 2014-05-25T09:22:47+00:00

There's no such thing as "feminism" in any meaningful way these days. It has to be clarified into somekind of category of feminism. Your post highlights exactly why - if someone tells me they're feminist, I don't really have any idea what they mean by that.

Feminism no longer sits on a social spectrum of authoritarian vs. liberal, because you'll find many authoritarian feminists (SRS and the like), and many liberal feminists (who I would immediately identify with).

It's kind of analogous to how religion is these days. One of the people I considered a mentor through college (UK high school) was a teacher who also happened to be devout Catholic. He was brilliantly intelligent and kind, and a liberal at heart. You'll find the exact opposite of the social spectrum who also calls themselves Christian in a place like the American Bible Belt. Hostile to opposing opinions and worldviews, authoritarian, just entirely consumed by ego. Like feminism, if someone tells me they're religious, it doesn't indicate anything to me.

The whole movement really needs to take stock and address its crazy elements who are a loud, fairly large minority.

jkonine · 2014-05-25T18:12:08+00:00

I think women should be allowed to stick up for themselves.

I also think that men should be allowed to stick up for themselves. It has to be both ways.

tetrahydrous · 2014-05-24T01:58:31+00:00

[deleted]

GaiusScaevolus · 2014-05-24T01:25:00+00:00

Let's discuss that second picture.

But first, I hope most of us understand that every ideology and every movement has extremists and moderates. Is it fair to lump all Feminists (or Muslims, or Republicans, or Red pillers for that matter) together as one unit? Maybe not, but it's necessary because of the way we organize our thoughts. Also not helpful is the fact that extremists are often loudest, and opponents tend to love extremists, as they're almost as easy to argue against as a straw man. So we have to recognize that A) the extremists are a part of our subgroups, and therefore fair play in a discussion, and B) try to remember that extremists are a vocal minority and therefore should not hijack the whole discussion.

Now as for that second picture, it irks me that feminists find personal preference in a sexual partner's appearance to be an 'issue'. It's a subtler example of the same notion that does say men need to be attracted to fat women. Namely the "I-don't-care-that-this-accepted-standard-has-existed-for-nearly-a-century-and-it's-what-is-decidedly-found-attractive-in-the-modern-society-in-which-I-live.-You-need-to-accept-my-habits-and-find-them-attractive" notion (working title.) The man-bear-pig has every right to feel that way, and whats more it's perfectly logical that he would, considering our societal standard of attractiveness. He's not saying she can't grow her underarm and leg hair and braid it like a polish bride (which would be oppressive), he's pointing out that it's unattractive, much like it could be pointed out that his body hair is unattractive.

Having opinions or standards is not oppressive. If our society ever seriously decides it is, we're f*cked.

trudatness · 2014-05-24T15:53:47+00:00

This is also a very big reason why

Quotes from the progenitors of the VAWA:

Dworkin:

“I keep practicing horse position…and I kick good; I can kick to the knee and I can kick to the cock but I can’t kick to the solar plexus and I can’t kick his fucking head off… I fucking smash their faces in; I kick them; I hit them; I kick them blind; I like smashing their faces in with one kick, I like dancing on their chests,…with my toes, big, swinging kicks, and I like one big one between the legs, for the sake of form and symbolism, to pay my respects to content as such… I like smashing the bottles into their fucking faces and I like taking the knives, for my collection; I like knives. I find them drunk and lying down and I hurt them and I run; and I fucking don’t care about fair; discuss fair at the U.N.; vote on it; from which I enunciate another political principle, It is obscene for a girl to think about fair.”

McKinnon:

All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman

More Dworkin on the VAWA:

I am writing a plan for revenge, a justice plan, a justice poem, a justice map, a geography of justice; I am martial in my heart and military in my mind; I think in strategy and in poems, a daughter of Guevara and Whitman, ready to take to the hills with a cosmic vision of what’s crawling around down on the ground; a daughter with an overview; the big view; a daughter with a new practice of righteous rage, against what ain’t named and ain’t spoken so it can’t be prosecuted except by the one it was done to who knows it, knows him; I’m inventing a new practice of random self- defense; I take their habits and characteristics seriously, as enemy, and I plan to outsmart them and win…

As a result of this hatred men have lost their due process and their children have suffered.

Can you see why we have outrage?

[deleted] · 2014-05-27T19:44:58+00:00

They hate feminism because they don't know what it is.

Full stop.

I don't think that's a reason for anyone to backpedal, or be ashamed, just because a bunch of RPs don't want to read.

If you're afraid that someone is identifying you with something else, because they are ignorant, that's their problem. Not yours.

You can try (if you have the patience) to educate them.

It's mostly a waste of time. They need someone to blame for their problems.

crankypants15 · 2014-05-28T00:07:33+00:00

First, I don't hate feminism. There are many types of feminists, but the whole inconsistency is part of the problem. There are some decent ones, and no shortage of hateful ones. I simply choose not to engage too many feminists online because the chance is greater of finding an extremist online.
Inconsistent definitions, like of patriarchy, are confusing. Ask 3 feminists and you'll get 4 different answers.
Many feminists I have engaged simply cannot define any feminists term I ask them about. Several different feminists have degraded into hateful name calling, rather than answer a simple honest question I had.
I've been banned from feminism and askfeminists for asking an honest question politely. That sends a strong message that feminism is NOT to be questioned.
Feminism no longer stands for equality. Regardless of what they say, their actions say very different things. It's a rare day when a feminist will stand for both reproductive rights for women, and financial abortion for men.
I'm not really into the mensrights subreddit either. There's too much drama for me. Yes I lost nearly everything in my divorce. No men don't get treated equally in Michigan divorce courts. Prenups are regularly ignored. Still, I choose to limit the drama in my life, and I just start over.

whatsazipper · 2014-05-24T17:10:39+00:00

Feminism is a travesty that must be burnt to the ground.

TRPACC · 2014-05-24T18:17:59+00:00

Feminism covered up female pedophilia, female DV, female child abuse and female sexual aggression in order to support its hateful theories.

Now men are demonized, abuse is stereotyped male, men are legislated against, excluded from the DV movement, have been arrested taking pictures of their own children and some airlines have policies against men sitting beside children because of feminism's lies and covering up of abuse.

goatismycopilot · 2014-05-24T04:26:44+00:00

I thought we already had an "I hate feminism" thread or maybe this can just be a weekly thing?

Title	Why do you hate feminism?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	16
Comments	213
Date	May 23, 2014 11:00 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/26c4n3/why_do_you_hate_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-you-hate-feminism.285698 https://theredarchive.com/post/285698

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