Can we help these INCEL guys?

canseiDeSerEnganado · 2019-07-18T23:37:03+00:00

We cant. I tried. They dont want to get better, they prefer to blame something its impossible to change so they can complain without moving a muscle to improve.

erZoption · 2019-07-18T23:10:46+00:00

I feel sad for them. Like for real, some are probably attractive but they got a fucked mentality

CollaterLDamage · 2019-07-18T23:41:34+00:00

You can't logic someone out of something they didnt logic themselves into. You can grab your stray and try to housetrain it but it really depends how consumed they are by it.

beauty is a big part in seduction but is practically nothing compared to social fluency. These people, generally speaking, are socially retarded and will push away ideas that go against there preconceptions. They wont accept pussy if you straight out buy it for them. They have standards that are deep in the realm of fantasy. They want exact standards yet they themselves fall far below them.

you can try to talk these people out of there social suicide ideologies and yes, you may talk some down, but it's hard to talk down someone who's already accepted death.A man who feels obligated to die.

olronk · 2019-07-19T04:37:56+00:00

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

In StarWars it was said "Fear turns into Hate" This pithy statement sums up Incels. They fear women and will not, as Jordan Peterson puts it, face their demons or face the dragon in the hopes that they may defeat said dragon to claim their bounty.

They fear women they are attracted to. They are people just like you and I, but a woman's weapon is her beauty and the more of it she possesses the more of a weapon she is. Next is the mother of all evils: comparison. Now that you have convinced yourself that you aren't worthy based on some fictitious image you have of her only allowing Brad Pitt types into her life you will play the victim narrative. Once you are a victim you feed off this invisible oppression. It becomes your identity. 'Woe is me, no girl will ever love me!"

This is the watershed moment where that fear becomes hate. "If you will never love me then I will hate you!" This can take men to dark places that are near impossible to retreat from. They will hate the women, the men they associate with, anyone who has the talent to speak with and cultivate relationships with women of reasonable beauty. Once you hate there are but a few ingredients between your idle disgust and a tragedy involving mass murder. Fortunately most men are cowards so these Incel types usually end up just living at home.

You cannot really blame them. It took me damn near three decades to realize women actually want you to approach them and if you do they actually want the interaction to go smoothly. On the other hand it also takes a tremendous amount of courage, at first, to ask an attractive girl out and if she says "No", for whatever reason, GOD DOES IT STING...at first, but through repetition it is less painful and the whole process becomes fun.

The problem with Incels is not only will they not give themselves a chance, but they won't even take the most minute of corrective steps in the opposite direction of where they're heading. I am even convinced that the victim narrative is soo strong with them that even if a women knocked on their door and asked them out they still would find a reason that it isn't true that someone from the opposite sex could love them. I think the only solution is an ayahuasca ceremony. Beyond that I am not sure.

Nivajoe · 2019-07-19T04:54:57+00:00

I do actually feel bad for them. Their low self-esteem, and miserable view of the world, must cause them a lot of avoidable suffering.

But think about what "self-help" means.

You can give all the advice in the world. It is up to them whether or not they'll take it. Honestly, I don't think anything we say will change much of their views.

If you give useful advice they'll accuse you of being a Chad, who's advice is obviously flawed, because you must be attractive. They must maintain this world view to protect their ego. Because the only alternative is their fault. They need to tell themselves Woman reject them because of their looks, or money, because that is something largely out of their control (even though you still do have some control over both of these things...). The only alternative is they were rejected because of something they can control. (Or... perhaps they never even made a move)

They are not Incels by logic. They are Incels by emotion. And you can't logically breakdown an emotional decision.

There is a lot of self loathing on the internet, and you're never gonna change that.

natephant · 2019-07-19T06:33:57+00:00

Real incels? Or this insane mutant sect of incels that actually wants to pass legislation to force women to have sex with them?

Here’s the deal... niceguys/incels aren’t incorrect in their initial assessments...

They always say things like “I do this and that, but the girl goes for a guy who does this instead”

I used to be the same way... but instead of continuing to complain about it... I stopped doing what I was doing that didn’t work... and started doing what the guys I was complaining about did... and waddya know!? It fucking worked!

And over the years I crafted that into something I felt was lest douche baggy, and more ‘gentlemanly’ and ‘acceptable’

But guess what... these guys still won’t have it.

They are fucking hopeless.

The ones that aren’t hopeless are already browsing this sub and trying to better themselves.

masterflappie · 2019-07-19T11:41:33+00:00

I'm sort of incel, I never really fully identified with them, but I used to visit their message boards every once in a while and just meme and shitpost with them. I'm 23 and I've never had a gf, never spoke much with women and never had any meaningful interaction with them. About a year ago I started therapy and since then I've begun to understand how my childhood and upbringing made me the man that I am. I've solved a lot of my problems by now, but I don't think I'm even halfway of repairing the mental damage caused.

I think most incels are in a similar situation that I used to be in. They're in a downwards spiral that they can't see, often times caused by something out of their control. It's hard to step out of it when you don't even have the tools and knowledge to identify what's pulling you down. What they need is therapy and tender loving care. But you can't force that onto someone, they first need to be open to receiving it, but that's a worldview that's simply not accessible for them.

The incels as known by the public and mainstream media is only a tiny subset of the communities. They're the most aggressive ones that have gone too deep. But there's many more passive ones when they go that deep that don't cause terror, they silently suicide and no one hears about them. Some will livestream their suicides, which will earn them the title of "an hero".

Perhaps that the pick up artists can show them a different lifestyle, which would help, but to fully fix them requires professional help and mentoring. It requires a complete 180 on how they view themselves and the world around them. That will require more than help and friendly messages from online people. They need to get into the real world and find a tribe to belong with.

KindnessWins · 2019-07-19T05:11:18+00:00

I'm an incel. Someone take me under their wing please. I'm a 24 year old kissless virgin, if someone helps me get laid, I will name my future kids after you.

brennanx1 · 2019-07-19T00:28:24+00:00

“Incel” isn’t the best word to describe the majority of them. Most claim to be part of incel culture, however, most aren’t actively trying to improve themselves.

In essence, without trying to improve their own lives for themselves and to ultimately attract sexual partners, they’re not doing anything and just complain that life is treating them unfairly and they blame women for any reason that sounds somewhat possible.

Don’t get me wrong, there are incels working to improve themselves, but the ones we usually hear about are how I described above. There are so many categories that incels identify as too, but ultimately, it’s a mental condition with a basis of inexistent self-confidence.

codewizbambam · 2019-07-19T01:44:26+00:00

can you link the documentary?

ArmitageShanks69 · 2019-07-19T09:13:33+00:00

I own my inceldom. Perhaps it's because I'm old and wise and understand that there is more to life than being accepted into the dating pool.

HectoSexual · 2019-07-20T13:58:30+00:00

I’m a reformed incel.

I tried to create a sub for a quick second, r/reformedincels, but I quickly realized how hard it is to reach these people over the internet.

It took tremendous, catastrophic life events for me to start to improve. I don’t think these people can be reached in any sort of broad way over the internet. Maybe on a one on one basis.

But when you’ve been an incel your whole life, you’ve been in the downward spiral for so long that you sort of reinforce it yourself and you don’t know how to not do that. Your own failure and misery has become such a strong part of your identity that you feel that to lose it would mean losing who you are.

The amount of work needed to come out of a hole like that is simply unconfrontable to most people.

darksidessj25 · 2019-07-19T01:32:32+00:00

They are toxic. I see this all the time with people. I'm starting to teach plain old Charisma to people that I know so they can at least talk to people and express themselves. You gotta change the title of it so that they don't know its Game. Game has a bad reputation but charisma has a good one. Charisma is built upon the same principles as game. Some people at my work want to actually learn how to be Charismatic and draw state from within. You have to explain things in a different way.

Its_A_Nice_Day · 2019-07-19T06:36:10+00:00

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

but real talk you aren't gonna change anyone's mindset over the internet

best to make friends with someone in real life

Pandaman0110 · 2019-07-18T23:09:08+00:00

Most of them completely reject pickup culture and cold-approaches. Many have tried but it's not going to work large scale.

TaeKwonPiccolo · 2019-07-19T10:48:00+00:00

PUA's are already exploiting them and capitalizing off of them. Why do you think bootcamps and workshops exist?

TheLoveGuardian · 2019-07-18T23:56:41+00:00

The first thing they need to stop doing is sending random dick pics as their initial approach:

Dont Send Dick Pics

olronk · 2019-07-19T17:25:45+00:00

As an incel myself I would take any kind if help I could get lol.

I think the word incel has different meaning to people. For me, I consider myself an incel because I've never been good looking enough to ever be attractive to a woman before.

And because I've never been attractive to women before I've never had the opportunity to date or ever do anything romantic with women. So involuntarily I am celibate.

I don't hate women, or society, etc. I totally understand that I'm the one that needs to step up and meet women's standards, I understand my shortcomings are my own and it's up to me to fix that and become the best version of me possible.

That's what I work on to this day, 4 years going strong on self improvement and while I still haven't reached a point of being attractive enough for women, i have turned my life around and am in the best place I've ever been in physically and mentally.

I'm 27, so there isn't much that can be done, but I wonder wond same as you.

noprideinsomniac95 · 2019-07-19T14:10:04+00:00

These guys have a mental health issue and that needs to be addressed before they can even think about starting "gaming". The root of their frustration, as I see it, is that they are not getting girls in a society that tells you your worth as a man is dependent on how many girls you get. For that, I do sympathize with them. However, they dont want to admit it's a problem with them (which I mean is human nature in general), and so they then blame it on girls. As they link up with more and more people of the same mindset, their views become more extreme and misogynistic. They believe that society doesn't understand them, unfairly torments them, and the usual response to incels by normal people is to make fun of them and ridicule their beliefs. While their beliefs do often deserve this ridicule, it only helps confirm their worldview that everyone is out to get them, and further entrenches them in it.

The way to make them not incel is typical hostage negotiation techniques - they feel they have a grievance, and as ludicrous as it is, acknowledge it. If they feel that you will hear them out, they're more likely to hear you out. Then you isolate them from their fellow incels and get them out of the echo chamber, expose them to evidence that directly contradicts their viewpoints, and the rest is history.

I believe if you were to do this, you could help these guys, but the question is would it be worth it. Itd be a lot of effort, youd be met with stiff resistance in the beginning, and probably even insulted. What would you gain from it?

NegativeCollision · 2019-07-30T14:11:06+00:00

No it’s all about looks

NegativeCollision · 2019-08-02T04:18:12+00:00

No because they are too ugly to be helped

GKaplan0 · 2019-07-19T05:43:47+00:00

No like the gingers they pose a problem that cannot merely be helped. When you have a disease, do you help the disease? NEIN! You eradicate ze disease. They are ze reason why ve have poverty, violence and they control ze money. We all know what must be done.

I am of course talking about sending them to FEMA operated dating camps where they shall learn to embrace women as their equal, themselves as responsible for their own getting laid, and understanding life’s a bitch and you ain’t owed shit.

Hail Obama!

Kelvdog · 2019-07-19T02:13:04+00:00

What is the mentality of an incel? I always thought they were guys that j couldn’t get layed cause they hung around in their mom’s basement.

themostbeta · 2019-07-19T03:47:54+00:00

I used to call myself an incel. Ive stopped hanging out in those online communities but yeah still a virgin in my late 20's. To be completely honest I really doubt learning pickup will help me get laid. Im just an unattractive guy. Im 5'3 for one so already most of the advice here won't work for me.

Marvinkmooneyoz · 2019-07-19T04:03:05+00:00

Unfortunately, it looks like the conditions that led to most men having somewhat regular sexual access are changing, it is a new era. For the last few hundred years, at least in America and much of Europe, we had a major middle class happen. Regular folk could ply a trade, work a craft, invest, act as middle men, all sorts of things.....so men were thus able to provide male parental investment. Now, for several reasons, male parental investment is less desired by women. So women are only interested in men with the better genes, or the richer ones. Now of course its not a complete shift yet, and will probbaly never completely shift, its a matter of degrees, but it will almost certainly change more before changing back.

And, unfortunately, the toxicity is going to get much worse. We see often enough in history, when men don't have sexual access, things get bad. Sometimes its organized, sometimes its just cummulative, but men have it in us to do anti-social and destructive things if we are denied status/sexual access. Not sure what degree they can impact things in the modern world, but they will try.

DarwinandPauling · 2019-07-19T06:39:31+00:00

Can't help those that don't want to be helped, or those who think you're just patronizing them for trying. Those who find comfort in victimhood cannot grow, because it is always someone else's fault. Growth comes from accepting the flaws of others and your own, and moving forward anyways. Doesn't mean you should stop trying, but also recognize that some people will never want to be helped.

TheXXL · 2019-07-19T11:12:29+00:00

There is no surefire way to help anyone. First the person in question needs to understand he needs help, then he has to ask for help and of course follow the guidance he gets, and even then it is not sure the he will even understand the guidance and go with it , or even have any success whatsoever.

It is always better to only extend a helping hand to someone who really want's it, and pull it back as soon as you see the person isn't going to follow. I've learned this over the course of decades trying to help people, until I realized what I just said, and since then, I don't waste my time anymore with those who aren't ready for help, and concentrate on the tiny microscopic amount of people who actually can be helped and are willing, the majority of those incels are not at this point.

Title	Can we help these INCEL guys?
Author	KindnessWins
Upvotes	52
Comments	142
Date	July 18, 2019 11:05 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/cezp3g/can_we_help_these_incel_guys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/can-we-help-these-incel-guys.1474045 https://theredarchive.com/post/1474045

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