MRAs, LWMAs and strategy

Arguesovereverythin · 2022-06-12T16:51:32+00:00

1a. Asking for human rights are only extreme to those who are prejudiced. Asking for equal protection under the law is extreme for those that thrive on inequality. The mirror to radical feminism doesn't exist and don't ever let anyone convince you otherwise.

1b Radical feminism is not universally seen as bad. The KKK is seen as universally bad. Radical Islamic Terrorism is seen as bad. Radical feminism is viewed with sympathy and acceptance through silence. So we are not the same by behavior nor by our public image.

2a Peterson and Shapiro are conservatives, not MRA's. They don't speak about men's issues, but wider societal concerns. Though there are issues where we would likely agree, there are other non traditional issues where we differ.

2b The reason we get lumped in with Peterson and Shapiro is because of prejudice. It's the same thought process that makes people think black people are going to rob you or gay people are pedophiles. They prefer to demonize you outright so that they do not have to respond to a valid perspective that conflicts with their own.

How do we convince the center?: By pointing out the hypocrisy. We can't allow ourselves to be convinced by bigoted logic. Instead, we should distance ourselves from social situations where people treat us like animals or criminals. In legal circumstances, we need to use the court to enforce our 14th Amendment Rights.

Honestly, I think the next step is to develop a legal fund.

gratis_eekhoorn · 2022-06-12T15:28:09+00:00

Neither Jordan Peterson nor Ben Shapiro are MRAs they've never called themselves MRAs, they've even explicitly said that they don't consider themselves MRAs.

I don't know you guys but personally I wouldnt drop a label just because some people falselly associate it with negative things especially when it's mostly due to the work of bad faith feminists/misandrists.

Unexpected-bug · 2022-06-12T17:07:12+00:00

Peterson, Shapiro etc. are the most prominent MRAs and they are idiots

They aren't MRAs. And at least Peterson is definitely not an idiot, I may risk to say that he even has an intelligence above the average. I don't agree with some of his ideas that are rooted on conservatism, but as there is no equivalent academics on the left, focusing on men and making their position public and mediatic, many men subscribe to the few academics that are somehow interested in understanding on the experience of being men and it's problems. I hope we can see soon academic equivalents of Peterson on the left-wing spectrum.

EndHlts · 2022-06-12T19:05:49+00:00

Shapiro is not an MRA in any way.

Man_of_culture_112 · 2022-06-12T19:55:40+00:00

Don't waste your time trying to appeal to a hate movement. We will just become men's lib if we did that.

KilliamWallace · 2022-06-12T21:47:25+00:00

You also have popular shows that have had scenes making fun of movements involving mens rights. I’ve witnessed this in two shows in particular.

One of the later seasons of Parks and Recreation.
Working Moms on Netflix.

It also sucks because I love those shows.

matrixislife · 2022-06-12T20:05:07+00:00

It doesn't matter if you're left or right, the important thing is the rights you are advocating for. You convince people by the strength of your arguments, not by which political faction they agree with the most.

Just the fact that this sub is here is a sign that things are improving. The MR sub was created 14 years ago, this sub is 2 years old. The message is getting out, just keep on keeping on.

politicsthrowaway230 · 2022-06-12T16:26:45+00:00

Realistically, an MRA (as in, someone who advocates for men in issues where they are disadvantaged because of their gender) shouldn't call themselves anything. They should say what they have to say and no more. (I would avoid direct criticism of feminism as well, but YMMV) Literally anything short of "feminist" is suspicious, even "gender egalitarian" would at least strike you as weird. (though I think it is actively used in academia) But since you can't really just not have a name for a sub, I think "male advocate" is a good compromise.

I personally think the popular narrative can only stand for so long. As acknowledgement of male victimisation becomes more and more common people will either talk themselves into what will eventually amount to rape apology, or they will have to mould their narratives to fit. The JD/AH thing has got attention to it but what we need is some very clear-cut cases and high-quality data and survey of male victims that cannot be so easily spun as (in the abstract sense) punching down on women. We need more studies like this excellent one by Lancaster university: http://wp.lancs.ac.uk/forced-to-penetrate-cases/files/2019/07/BA-FTP-project-report-2019.pdf

iainmf · 2022-06-13T03:59:52+00:00

I have two main strategies.

One, arguing that human rights need to be protected, and men are human beings with rights.

Two, making the moral argument that we should care about men. Related to this is highlighting that men's rights is important to me. It's one of my personal values.

Nearly everyone agrees with these two arguments. Or at least, don't have a good argument against them.

Fearless-File-3625 · 2022-06-13T04:23:37+00:00

People are correcting him that JP and Ben Shapiro are not MRAs. I think this is the biggest problem, anyone who says anything positive about men or negative about women is grouped together as MRA.

Incels and RP guys talk negative about women -> grouped with MRAs

Tradcons talk positive about men -> grouped with MRAs

If people stop grouping MRAs with unrelated groups, it would be far easier to convince them to change.

a-man-from-earth · 2022-06-14T12:50:15+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Cunari · 2022-06-12T16:26:48+00:00

We need to start presenting alternative viewpoints. Use a search engine on “misandry, sexism, toxic masculinity”. You only get the feminist view of those terms. We need to use SEO etc to present alternative takes on those terms.

Also, support people like thetinmen and armo wit as alternative takes to Ben Shapiro and JP

gabrielcoronel_ · 2022-06-13T01:41:55+00:00

One reason is because most MRAs/LWMAs are also anti-feminists and most centre people see anti-feminism as misogyny.

I'm not saying we should stop being anti-feminists, but rather explaining another reason some people have negative views about MRAs.

Andreomgangen · 2022-06-13T05:58:09+00:00

Personally I think using the label egalitarians is better.

If MRA's can show that they are in fact able to fight against the injustices both sides receive then extreme feminist won't have a leg to stand on, their injustices will be all the more visible.

They know this which is why many of them consciously or not are so desperate to attack MRA's.

fishkrate · 2022-06-12T20:11:11+00:00

Peterson at least tries to view things academically even if I think he comes to the wrong conclusions. Shapiro creepy little fuck that had he not been a sheltered little freak would have gotten his ass justly kicked.

Nycidian_Grey · 2022-06-12T20:13:25+00:00

Watch this video and you will understand the inevitability of inaccurate and misleading proganda when dealing with opposing groups

CCP Grey:This video will make you angry

Ferbuggity · 2022-07-10T01:50:21+00:00

But the centre-how do we convince/change the mindset.

Stop accepting "all women" posts in your reddit subs.

Quit giving space to those "women are shit because they don't date me" type dating complaint posts. They are very often blatantly misogynistic.

Cease conflating "feminism" with "women". We non-cultists resent it.

Do your research, and post the truth. Check your sources for bias. Feminism's love of lies is driving people from its doors. Let's help the refugees over, with truth and facts not spun to support an agenda.

Embrace women as advocates, mothers, sisters, wives, partners and friends of men. We sometimes may not wholly "get it"... help us not with vitriol or disdain, but with facts. Let us help you, because we really care.

DouglasMilnes · 2022-06-13T00:59:47+00:00

Well, for one thing don't pretend that Jordon is an MRA or that he is right wing. He does not advocate for men's rights, and if you watch some of his earliest material particularly, you would place him left of centre. In general, I think he just stands for what he stands for, which isn't particularly anyone else's colours.

Zinziberruderalis · 2022-06-15T08:24:02+00:00

Peterson, Shapiro etc. are the most prominent MRAs and they are idiots. So we get bunged in. And they’re easy to take down because they’re stupid.

What did Peterson say that you thought was idiotic? He rose to high academic status in a field that is at least somewhat quantative so he's probably not stupid.

a-man-from-earth · 2022-06-13T09:15:47+00:00

[permanently deleted]

vinvinnocent · 2022-06-15T09:07:14+00:00

Here's my perspective as someone that only rarely looks at the MRA/LWMA subreddit.

Most of the top posts aren't around constructive discussion of male topics but put blame on feminism, generalize feminists or are simply unproductive rants. At least this is how it seems to me when I take a quick glance at it.

The first post I see is the "feminist alternative reality on Depp vs Heard trial". The title generalizes and the post looks like a rant. It's just some screenshots from a tweet (as if Twitter is a place for productive discussions) and an article. The post doesn't provide a constructive discussion starting point, no links to the actual article or an explanation of why the articles point of view is wrong.

For someone like me that finds men's issues important but at least also has nothing against feminism, such posts just seem toxic, hateful and unproductive.

Title	MRAs, LWMAs and strategy
Author	rochesterslim
Upvotes	39
Comments	88
Date	June 12, 2022 2:23 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/van0wv/mras_lwmas_and_strategy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/mras-lwmas-and-strategy.1116279 https://theredarchive.com/post/1116279

Comments