Are most here big on traditional gender roles?

shit-zen-giggles · 2022-07-02T06:47:29+00:00

I'd rather describe my stance as "with equal rights come equal responsibilies".

I see a

gender justice gap (favoring women)
gender education gap (favoring women)
gender health gap (favoring women)

And in all those cases, I see all societal forces focussing on widening those gaps rather than closing them which shows that the "progressive forces/movements" aren't egalitarian in any substancial way.

Whether idividual couples are doing the traditional stay at home wife / working husband distribution or a dual income household variant is primiarily determined by their overall income potential.

A female breadwinner / male supplementary earner model is the exception (primarily because of female hypergamy). Women don't marry men that make less than them.

This is an observation everyone, who has their eyes open, can readily observere. I'm no more or less in favor of it than I am in favor of pregnancy taking 9 month and happening in the female uterus. It just happens to be that way.

Pointing out those facts is not an endorsement. We just need to stop lying to ourselves (as a society).

Ferbuggity · 2022-07-02T05:59:23+00:00

There's a common perception many MRAs etc long for the 'good old days' when men and women knew their place,

ps: this is bs, in my experience most mrm men want women to work

Lightning77Plus · 2022-07-02T13:01:00+00:00

Nah. I just want true equality between genders.

Mr-Homemaker · 2022-07-02T07:00:48+00:00

women were mostly homemakers ... Of course this is a very modernist 20th century version.

What do you think of 'traditional' gender roles? Do you long for the 1950s or something?

I would be very grateful if OP or anyone here can point me to one or more credible source(s) on what "traditional gender roles" have been across cultures and over time.

It seems like some people assert that 1950's in the USA was a period that serves as the key point of reference. However, I'm inclined to think that period was a peculiar deviation from what had been "traditional" up to that point:

Before WW2, families were less nuclear, less geographically mobile, had stronger extended family and community support; jobs were less industrialized and corporate; there was less affluence; etc...

On the other hand, I'm also skeptical of narratives that gender roles didn't exist in primitive and agrarian cultures...

TLDR: Can anyone recommend a good book or two that actually gets into the history / anthropology of gender roles ?

Ferbuggity · 2022-07-02T05:49:02+00:00

I ---chose--- to take up a traditional role when my child was small, as I don't believe putting babies in daycare for long hours every day is great for them (and neither did my partner). And I got so much subtle and unsubtle shit for it from women that I developed the opinion, "fuck all you bishes, I do what I want". And I'm glad I did just that.

The perception that "traditional" roles are somehow inherently fucking evil is just nonsense. Humanity had those roles for what, 200,000 years at least and suddenly some people know better. I don't think so.

Forcing people into things and gender oppression isn't the sole dynamic at play here. "My choice" extends to choices the woke agenda doesn't approve of, and doesn't have to rubberstamp for it to be a valid choice.

edit; and making that choice doesn't mean i need to be "educated" on all the ways I'm being oppressed, just sayin.

Feminists sneering at people for making choices they don't choose to make is the very essence of discrimination. Not to mention hypocrisy.

Yes this topic triggles me trigs a bit.

-Soggy-Potato- · 2022-07-02T18:52:16+00:00

Ultimately it is detrimental to the movement

It’s really difficult to expect equal rights and responsibilities when holding onto outdated and restrictive roles that created the inequality in the first place

This idea of men being breadwinners puts insane pressure and responsibility when it should be shared, and ofc also taking agency and independence away from women

This idea of women being homemakers also takes away from guys (alongside the obvious downsides for women), where men are pushed away from being so involved with their children emotionally, hence why so many custody cases go to the mum, because guys simply aren’t as involved

To bring an example into this, It’s also why so many young boys have no real male role models throughout the entirety of their primary school years. Because primary education is associated with these ‘homemaker’ ‘nurturing and caring’ traits that men aren’t supposed to have, and as such men are deterred from pursuing interest or are dissuaded form forming those interests / aprisations to begin with

I’m coming from a place that gender just shouldn’t have a hold, it isn’t really / shouldn’t be relevant. It should be entirely down to the individual compromises/skills/desires within relationships

PQKN051502 · 2022-07-03T08:04:46+00:00

I am anti-tradcon.

Traditional gender roles harm men much more women. Men always have to work dirty dangerous hard labor jobs while women only have to do housework and get all of their husband money.

If you are a traditional conservative. You are anti-male.

Darkwolf90 · 2022-07-02T06:55:41+00:00

The roles are important, necessary ones, however they should not be gender roles. If you want to be the stay at home dad then fine, "breadwinner" mom then fine.

ggleblanc2 · 2022-07-02T06:22:47+00:00

In societies where women are free to choose their lifestyle, most women choose to be stay-at-home housewives and stay-at-home mothers.

When women are forced to work in the workplace by economic necessity, rather than at home, they overwhelmingly choose "people professions" like teaching, nursing, psychology, etc.

Men would probably like the same choice to stay at home all day and play video games or be a media "influencer", but economic necessity has a few men choosing high-paying dangerous jobs. Most choose "thing professions" like engineering, construction, delivery, etc.

Most women have a proclivity towards people and society and most men have a proclivity towards things. That's evolutionary biology in action.

Sinner12180 · 2022-07-02T06:28:13+00:00

Yes but not due to any misguided views. Several studies have linked traditional roles to increased wellbeing for individuals, families, and offspring. Plus we treat those of opposite gender (fulfilling those roles as we fulfill ours) with respect and admiration.

boy_named_su · 2022-07-02T06:28:48+00:00

I'm in favor of traditional gender roles, as is my gf. But I couldn't care less what other people do

UnconventionalXY · 2022-07-02T14:35:32+00:00

Males and females are fundamentally biologically tailored to suit their specific roles in sexual reproduction, although there is some limited plasticity along with some diversity.

Outside of the requirements for successful sexual reproduction, roles no longer exist in society except as they relate to most efficiently performing a task and how important efficiency is, or in personal satisfaction in performing a task and how important personal satisfaction is.

The thing is, the sexes do have specific psychophysical attributes related to their particular sex that facilitate their performance of particular tasks in society: strength, determination, risk taking, empathy, compassion, etc. However, there are many pursuits in society that don't require specific attributes, especially where strength and resiliance is required, as technology assisted strength and resiliance result in it being moot.

The fundamental question is what does society hold more important: efficiency in performing essential tasks or personal satisfaction (ie getting what you want)?

I think society also dismisses the reality and power of sexuality, but also the inherent conflict between men and women as a result of that sexuality, when they are in proximity.

Gender is a feminist construct that just clouds everything: there is only sexual biology, diversity and limited plasticity in my opinion. Transsexuals, homosexuals, etc are simply diverse presentations of that fundamental sexual biology (mutations if you like).

mikesteane · 2022-07-02T05:47:57+00:00

but I do support true equality

What does that mean?

LettuceBeGrateful · 2022-07-02T12:59:05+00:00

I'm not personally into traditional gender roles, I much prefer an equal partnership. I think some men yearn for traditional roles because it's an incredibly confusing time to be a man, when society has no idea what it wants from us. Women have been largely liberated from their traditional roles and gender expression. Men are still respected and selected for their ability to provide, even as they're sold the lie that those things no longer matter.

There's a lot of criticism of tradcons in this sub, though, because a lot of us recognize that ultimately, traditional gender roles come with the baggage of male disposability. Men need the same liberation from traditional expectations that we've already championed for women.

caem123 · 2022-07-02T14:43:13+00:00

lots of need for traditional gender roles:

kill a spider

fix a flat tire

carry heavy boxes

load luggage in airplane overhead compartment

pay for dinner at a restaurant

pay all household costs if the female adult of the house is too stressed to work or chooses to be a stay-at-home-mom

military draft and selective service

etc etc etc

TheStumblingWolf · 2022-07-02T15:49:28+00:00

No. I'd describe myself more as an egalitarian than an MRA.

Motor_bird_cycle · 2022-07-02T17:15:27+00:00

I’m not sure how I feel about traditional gender roles but there’s nothing wrong with a couple or people preferring that way of life if it makes them happy. I think it’s best not to live with those values as a man nowadays, I think a man believing and advocating for gender roles will get in hot water fast and if someone who considers that to be evil and is evil will use the law to ruin you

orezoftheworld · 2022-07-02T19:59:08+00:00

I don't, I want a family (wife and children) and if my wife wants to work and wants me to be house husband I am fine with that. I am financially secure and can take care of a family and I believe that anyone should do what make them happy.

DavidByron2 · 2022-07-02T21:21:29+00:00

Feminists are a type of Tradcon ("traditional conservative) and both more or less the same thing - the enemy of Men's Rights.

HikuroMishiro · 2022-07-02T21:58:06+00:00

Not sure if this is a troll post or not, but I'll try to some relatively brief answers.

"There's a common perception many MRAs etc long for the 'good old days' when men and women knew their place, women were mostly homemakers or worked as nurses, teachers etc."

There's a lot of "common perceptions" about a lot of things that aren't necessarily true. For example there's a common perception feminism is about equality yet when you do the slightest scrutiny that illusion falls apart.

" Of course this is a very modernist 20th century version."

A good observation that is often ignored. Some people look at a few countries at the point of 100 years ago and just broadly proclaim that's how the past was. Things continuously change throughout history so thanks for pointing that out.

"Throughout most of human history most women for instance worked in the fields, did hard physical labour too, and there was no capitalist driven job market...I'm not sure how true this generalisation is, though."

Though out most of history women definitely did more than just have and raise children. In many times and places men may have had more grueling physical work, but in most of history survival was much more of an issue and having half your population relatively idle just would not have worked. I'd add though that while capitalism wasn't the de facto economic system of the land until recently, being the best economic system we have it definitely had an influence in past systems. If you lived in a place where there was a job market (i.e. you could choose to be a ferrier or a fisherman, etc. not just you're a serf and your lord told you to work the fields) it would still essentially be a capitalist driven market even if you lived under mercantilism or something.

"Anyway...I don't label myself as an MRA or feminist or whatever, but I do support true equality."

Fair enough, I'm not really into labels myself.

"I'm against forcing people to adhere to gender roles, though do seem the societal value of some roles. What about you? What do you think of 'traditional' gender roles?"

Generally speaking I'm very against forcing people into things. If a man wants to be a nurse or a woman wants to be a soldier, I don't think such things should be gender restricted, no. There does seem to be some natural gender inclinations though, and I'm very against the modern woke take of forcibly 'breaking down gender roles'. I think we've witnessed firsthand how quickly and powerfully populaces can be socially engineered and that is something to be cautioned against and maybe a focus on 'tradition' while allowing for a more natural rate of deviance from the norm to take place would result in a better more stable society than media/elites trying to engineer society to where they think it should be.

"Do you long for the 1950s or something? Why or why not?"

Eh, yes and no. Certainly pros and cons to both, but that has really nothing to do with gender roles. If I were given the choice to have grown up in a different time period, I personally wouldn't choose the 50s. The 50's had a nice post war economy and was a simpler time that many like the draw of. However I think when people reference the 50's they're only talking the positive aspects like that, there are also numerous drawbacks I feel are obvious and don't see the need to go into. I'm sure when most people idealize the 50s they are only talking about certain aspects of it not making a true wish everything was exactly like it was then. Same can be said for a lot of different periods that have some attraction to them.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2022-07-02T22:40:34+00:00

It depends entirely on what you mean by traditional. Women have been pedastalized in western culture for 500 years. My refusal to do this is more of a radical notion than traditional.

I’ve become convinced a necessary ingredient for most heterosexual females to maintain sexual attraction for the man over the long term is that he leads and she follows. This ends up being the traditional role where the man is the head of the household. Most couples will say their share decision making fairly equally but when you ask the right follow up questions you usually find the truth that the women are in charge.

I don’t think this should be forced though. I’d rather people had the freedom to decide what kind of relationship they want and wish society would just let them without being criticized.

Huffers1010 · 2022-07-03T00:32:17+00:00

Hell no; my partner does an extremely stereotypically masculine job, and if I was the slightest bit threatened by that I'd be in very much the wrong place.

I try to avoid the labels too, and I applaud your doing so.

The underlying question seems to be whether there is a conservative-leaning majority here and I wouldn't be surprised to discover there was, but it doesn't represent me if so. I'm mildly left of centre by European standards, which makes me practically a communist by American standards. I am very definitely not approaching any of this from a position of social conservatism.

2022-07-03T01:34:29+00:00

I am. I like being dominate and taking care of people. That being said it is not for everyone. HOWEVER people shouldn't shit on men or women that want traditional relationships. Just because you are lonely and no one wants to touch you doesn't mean you have to go after us.

PlatypusPristine9194 · 2022-07-03T05:35:46+00:00

Hell no, I just don't think anyone should have a licence to treat me like shit.

Raining_Hope · 2022-07-12T09:41:58+00:00

The thing with gender roles is that it's a double standard. With women they are encouraged and praised for stepping out if gender rolls. If a man does the same, usually the best they get is a sad pat on the back and a lot of backlash for not being nan enough

Title	Are most here big on traditional gender roles?
Author	TheNamelessComposer
Upvotes	3
Comments	101
Date	July 2, 2022 5:35 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vpkkbg/are_most_here_big_on_traditional_gender_roles/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/are-most-here-big-on-traditional-gender-roles.1121754 https://theredarchive.com/post/1121754

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