What do you guys think of sexual market value?

RealRussShackleford · 2022-07-15T04:24:05+00:00

I hate the “SMV” term, but it’s pretty apparent that regardless of your gender or sexual orientation if you put in effort to make yourself more attractive you’ll very likely attract a more attractive partner.

That being said, “the wall” is a fantasy cope that helps guys in their 30s who are still struggling with women and have basically convinced themselves that the issue has nothing to do with any of the long list of real issues involving social skills and hygiene and standards set by consumption of too much porn and everything to do with the fact that they don’t make enough money. They believe that once they make enough money then they’ll get the hot 19 year olds like the ones that shot them down in their youth.

The reality is that guys in their mid 30s that talk online about how they “never date a woman over 25” never date any woman period.

I’m close to 40. These 22 year olds look damn nice in their bikinis and yoga pants. But once you get them out across the table from you at a restaurant you very quickly realize that keeping it within 3-4 years of your own age is definitely the more fun move.

Red_Trapezoid · 2022-07-15T04:48:12+00:00

I think it's just a form of gaslighting honestly. They're trying to set a narrative. "Oh, you're almost 30. You better hurry up and settle down with a mediocre emotionally immature dudebro like me before your SMV drops and nobody wants you!" Very skeevy.

JonF1 · 2022-07-15T05:31:23+00:00

A lot of redpillers are like 20ish years old. At that age, 30 seems forever away and sounds super old. It's pure ignorance and immaturity.

Edit: blackpill too, for the record.

anubhav23 · 2022-07-15T03:39:04+00:00

Nope. I think it doesn't exist. We're humans, not products.

And yes I've also met many 30+ yr olds who are very beautiful and so chill to hang out with sometimes.

Edit: thank you kind stranger for the award. 🤗

Slight_Fig5187 · 2022-07-15T11:00:57+00:00

I'm sure it's a strategy to make 20 something girls afraid and hurry up choosing a man, in the vain hope it's one of them.

30 somethings are more experienced and wise, and would never make that mistake.

Shaming people, be it women (the wall, fat or feminist shaming) or men (being beta, a virgin, an incel, a simp, etc) seems to be a central part of RP ideology. Probably because through shaming comes fear, and I guess that combination leads many men towards YouTube channels, workshops by gurus, books, etc, thus monetizing these ideas, which is probably the ultimate goal.

BubbhaJebus · 2022-07-15T05:25:02+00:00

It's all a pile of dehumanizing BS.

JonF1 · 2022-07-15T06:48:02+00:00

It's a dumb analogy. That doesn't work at multiple levels. It's just another way they the "red pill" breeds insecurities by having you compare yourself to other people's experienced most of which that are presented to you are fake.

Anyway, continuing on with the market analogy. Most economists and their institutions are hilariously poor at future economic events and trends. Even when it comes to prescriptions (I.e what you should do given an situation) economists, central banks, investment banks, and multinationals can get it completely wrong. These are people PhD in Economics and/or decades of experience in economic research of industry experience. What is the red pill community mostly, men with lacking any formal education whatever and just sight eachother's self published books.

Makes Markets and economies are incredibly complex and multifaceted phenomenon. What may work for one country could do absolutely nothing in another.

Run your own race when it comes to dating.Dating has never really been competitive in human civilization. Even in today's supposed hellscape ~60% of all men above the age of fifteen in the US have a biological child. 71% of men 79% of women 25-44 are married. Most sociological surveys show that women are having less romantic relationships and casual sex at rates compatible to men as well.

Known_Patience_3303 · 2022-07-15T05:34:04+00:00

I believe it is all based on perception and social(sub) culture whetever this is true or not.

For example, in my old country a trait in men that is wildly attractive is a nice round belly, because the ability to properly find/buy/make food is an important quality.

In line... there are (sub) cultures that are all about age, or looks, or a combination. I mean in some parts of the model industry girls will get fired for having a bmi of 18. (Luckily it is changing)

As for red pill // PUA people, i honestly believe they are so busy with superficial standards, that to them it is their reality and females aged 30+ are actually of lower sexual quality.

For me, it is what seperates the boys from the men. My 35 y/o girlfriend is a better living mate, a respectful friend, and the most exhilarating sexual partner that ive had in my lifetime. This is what experience does.

BlueKing7642 · 2022-07-15T22:23:53+00:00

I think it’s a bullshit concept. A woman doesn’t stop being attractive because you found out she’s 30,40 etc

The reason why these guys target younger women is they think younger women are easier to control

skeletilly · 2022-07-15T17:43:41+00:00

How the hell do older woman “have more baggage??” I’m 33 now, and I’ve never been happier than I am now! I’m so happy to be out of my dumb 20s, because I young and dumb and had zero direction in life. Now I know what I want, I know who I am.

Whenever I see dumb shit like, “sexual market value,” I pray for an asteroid to hit this planet. It’s so stupid, weird, and women find that crap revolting to hear.

Also, I’ve talked with my physician AND my therapist (lol) about “can’t have babies past 30,” and they always laugh. My therapist became a mom at 38, and my doctor (who specialized in womens health in university) was like, “uuuuh, no?” Turns out women have until menopause (50ish), and post-menopause women can sometimes STILL give birth.

Ugh. I wanna say I’m triggered, but not for me, I’m triggered for all the poor men out there learning this vitriol and then cry in bed at night because they are so lonely. Lmao, sorry for the rant.

vcreativ · 2022-07-15T07:33:13+00:00

It's a metric that ignores most of human experience. Are there people of different overall attractiveness in the world, sure. Both subjectively and objectively. So to give that a name is a truism. It's one of many times where the "scene" gives something a name to make it sound like they made up a new concept. Or discovered something new.

But it's what's built on it that matters. All of a sudden people are measured against each other in all kind of meaningless ways.

Come up with a metric, make it seem meaningful, make people feel bad about themselves in relation to it, claim your superiority, and sell your advice to your followers. That's all that is.

I think it's really easy to overrate this sort of mechanical metric if you spend most of your time online. Limited to pictures and videos. It's just not the same, it seems the same because your brain can't distinguish, but it's really not.

It's not about what you find attractive, but whom you find attractive.

I really don't like the word "baggage". It's such a negativistic way to look at being.

Yes there are things that'll happen to you, or messes you caused. Actions, no matter how pleasant at the time, have consequences. And risk seeking behaviour can only end in so many ways.

And if you never address any of it, then you will eventually be indistinguishable from a pile of neuroticisms. But if you, you get to grow.

karabnp · 2022-07-15T16:10:53+00:00

OP, your assessment is correct.

And “the wall” is used for nothing more than fear-mongering to get women to “settle” for (often) scraps, and/or abuse and mistreatment, before or when they “age out”.

I’m 34, and “the wall” has in no way been my experience. My options have always been plentiful, then, AND now, however, I deny/turn down most, as it’s just not a “be all, end all” priority for me, to “have a man”/“settle down” or to EVER get married.

I’m content within myself and what I do with my life and time. So if dating/a relationship is going to be in my life, it’s got to be just as good or better than all of my free range time and activities, and usually, it’s not. It’s a drag, it’s boring to me, or worst yet, stressful.

I wouldn’t call this a “wall”, more a timeline in this instance, yet, if you want to get married and have babies, you have to be concerned with doing that by a certain point, to avoid any potential health complications and/or fertility issues, (simply science, here.) although plenty of women give birth in their 30s with little to no issues, it becomes more challenging in your late 30s/early 40s to do so.

That has never been a concern for me, so that is something I can’t relate to or am worried about, personally. I do encourage women to not force themselves into a relationship or marriage and start popping out kids, if they aren’t 1000% sure they’re with the right man/father for their children, as they then have to deal with a lifetime of baggage and difficulties if it doesn’t work out, ultimately. The kids growing up in a broken home, too. If he’s a real asshole, you’ve got to co-parent with him at least 18 years. Not ideal.

Bottomline, “the wall” is simply an attempt at shame and control, so women will fear “expiring” after 25 or 30, and “settling” for a situation that is NOT in her best interest, usually. And that’s ridiculous.

PleasePleaseHer · 2022-07-15T21:37:02+00:00

“Baggage”. Or…. Life experience? Valuable wisdom? Interesting conversation?

Only insecure people seek out very young people as partners (of course there are age gaps that aren’t perverse), because they need to feel like expectations are low, that they can impress their partner with their worldly experience, and they can dominate the relationship, as opposed to being equals in life.

Fun_Access_599 · 2022-07-15T11:49:06+00:00

Incel is a mindset from people with porn fried brain.

So their idea of what a 30 year old looks like comes from mislabeled porn.

Not from human contact or friendship.

InfjChick91 · 2022-07-16T00:39:17+00:00

Its bs. Im turning 31 next month and I look like I'm in my early 20s. I have men 10 years younger than me checking me out and trying to pursue me. The men who go on about this crap are simply trying to devalue women and are intentionally trying to oppress them and make them feel insecure.

KayRay1994 · 2022-07-15T13:23:56+00:00

SMV is a cringy concept brought on to justify a RP/BP’ers own insecurities - it is ultimately a grifting tactic

“if you follow my instructions you’ll be at the top of this curve in an X amount of time! Also you don’t wanna be with someone who’s at that part of the curve cause that part of the curve is low and bad! buy my book!”

GoodSilhouette · 2022-07-15T16:35:23+00:00

age effects everyone, you're (generally) not going to be attracting as many people att 40 as you were at 20.

Desspite that: 40 year old women AND men can be attractive.

The idea women stop getting attention or romance at 30 is straight up fucking ridiculous and childish lmao

capricorndyke · 2022-07-15T17:43:37+00:00

PFFFFFFFFFFT. I wish it were true.

I mean sure there is a hint of truth to it that the redpill and blackpill blows out of proportion. I say I wish it were true because you still get hit on in your 30s. I mean I am gay so I don't like attention from men obviously. But still if I walk into an AA meeting I still get hit on. Older men tend to be more bold in their approach and will come up to you no problem. Younger men I find take more subtle approaches and try to warm up next to you. I've been on buses, worked as a nurse, volunteered at helplines, whatever- you still get hit on. It's annoying.

As far as baggage goes, let's be real. Most people accumulate 'baggage' when they are young. From childhood, teen years, and early young adulthood. So being older usually has nothing to do with it. As far as 'the wall goes' I find the blackpillers that I followed were a little softer than the redpillers. Most of the blackpillers I tend to listen to (e.g. DBDR) are not as toxic and are really just depressed young people. Like tired and feel hopeless about the future. Redpillers like to play mind games so that is what the SMV thing is really all about.

5MinuteMentalFitness · 2022-07-15T19:57:12+00:00

Personally IMO It’s sexual market value if you only view romantic relationships as purely sexual

Otherwise it is more about relationship market value in relation to the type of relation you want.

Each type has specific values which are not universal but contextual to everyone else. Yet we all play into and are apart of this market even when we are married as you can always lose your partner in many ways this sending you back looking for another one once you are ready. ,

phoenix_shm · 2022-07-15T21:47:29+00:00

It's more important for extroverts, that's about all I think of it. Also, sexiness comes in all shapes and sizes, thank goodness 😉

Pod_people · 2022-07-15T16:15:11+00:00

Like anything else, the red pill weirdos have taken something with a grain of truth and ran with it to an absurd degree. Yes, women are judged more on youth and beauty probably than men, but 30 is young. I'm a 45 year old man and I am NOT chasing kids in their 20s. Those girls have nothing to offer me whatsoever. Women in their 30s and 40s look great and have maturity.

Venustarr_777 · 2022-07-15T15:12:21+00:00

It's some bullshit control women. Bottom line. It doesn't exist to me.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2022-07-15T16:35:06+00:00

SMV measures your conventional attractiveness to others on average. But there is individual variation and people have different preferences than the average. Compatibility is just as important as high SMV. Women start out with a lot higher SMV than men in their 20s, so while their SMV in their 30s declines more than men, its may be more equalizing SMV rather than men surpassing women.

While most women's physical attractiveness declines a lot into their 30s, much of that is due to America obesity epidemic, and women who take care of themselves can mostly avoid it. Also most men see greatly reduced physical attractiveness as well, from balding and weight gain.

Physical attractiveness is more important to men than women so this can affect women more than men. But women care more about physical attractiveness more than most people think. Also women are playing a greater and greater role in the job market and women's careers are becoming more and more important in dating.

Having kids can be a problem for middle-age women who are dating, but fewer and fewer women are having kids and are doing so later. But many men also have kids or at least are paying child support.

Its pretty obvious SMV is true. Some people are more attractive than others and have an easier time in dating because of it. But redpillers and blackpillers greatly exaggerate the effect this has on women in their 30s and leave out a lot of individual variation and nuance.

ChezW · 2022-07-16T00:59:07+00:00

Or older have less baggage, left behind done carrying that weight.

carritotaquito · 2022-07-16T02:50:17+00:00

More baggage than younger women.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Some 32 year old lawyer who went the KJD route, didn’t cultivate much interpersonal relationships, lived a relatively sheltered life centered around school, work, and a few extracurriculars will NOT have the baggage some 22 year old RN BSN who had to do it all in life.

And no, these are NOT outliers. If you think they are, you need to meet more people outside the internet.

2022-07-18T18:43:48+00:00

Controversial term, but it is true that certain traits like physical attractiveness, lifestyle, appearance, personality, etc. do make you a more "desirable" sexual partner to the average person.

I don't believe that women hit "the wall" at age 30. Some people do hit "walls", but it can happen at any age and there are other factors than just "biological destiny" (i.e. some people peak in high school).

no_bling_just_ding · 2022-07-18T18:51:15+00:00

the wall is cope. 80 year old women are doing just fine on tinder, better than 20 year old men who hit the gym. anyone who hasnt accepted that women have more sexual options than men regardless of either's age needs a reality check. your ballooning belly, your falling hair, creasing skin and shrivelling penis are only going to get worse with age, and you're not a pornhub category for it unlike aging women. best hope you saved up a large stack of cash, cause that's all you got left to pull women eager to spend it on gucci bags, and the score will never get even. even 20 year old girls can have higher body counts than a ww2 cemetery.

2022-07-15T13:51:56+00:00

It’s a more sophisticated way of saying a young fitness influencer is going to be hot at 25 vs one at 45. Looks fade, but it reintroduces this idea that men should do what Leonardo DiCaprio does.

2022-07-15T18:34:06+00:00

The wall is manosphere coping. At 30 there are few single women. When there are more single women is at the age of 60, when a some men have already died. And I doubt those women in their Sixties are interested in dating.

Andromeda_______ · 2022-07-15T19:25:21+00:00

It's superficial and immature. Admittedly, some people age badly and look better in their youth. Many age like fine wine though. Women and Men in their 30s still look YOUNG and even people in their 40s look good. If you don't look after yourself at 20 you'll look like crap too.

The other part of SMV I hate is the idea that if a woman sleeps with a lot of people her SMV goes down. Like how? She's got more XP points. Virginity is highly overrated and seems to be fetishised by the insecure younger men who spout this crap, largely because they are sexually inexperienced themselves and are intimidated by a woman who has experience they lack.

Mriconicdev · 2022-07-15T08:52:09+00:00

Look at dating at stats. What’s that correlate to?

Kappador66 · 2022-07-15T08:53:07+00:00

Yeah women become less attractive when they age. Especially if they don't take good care of themselves. But this huge "wall" is big time cope. Just go on onlyfans and tell all those models in their 30s and 40s who make more money in a month then most of us here do in a year and tell them they have hit a wall and aren't attractive anymore.

KingKunta2-D · 2022-07-15T11:34:50+00:00

I'm going to respond to many people on this post. Sexual market value is absolutely true. And You should still respect people as human beings!

The way world works and how the world should work are not the same thing.

Women are seen as inherently sexual. In every century before the 20th one, women were used as property to marry off to Men with land and wealth in exchange. It's awful! And it's Awful to think about but we're not far from it. Women are still valued for their youth and beauty. And men are still valued off their land and earning potential. I know personally and It sucks.

Naus1987 · 2022-07-15T10:32:21+00:00

It’s always complex for sure.

I feel like the wall could apply if women are chasing the super attractive guys who have options — those kinds of guys may actually have tough enough standards that to them, there is a wall that women can hit where they don’t date them.

It’s kinda like how there’s no wall for me to be wedding cake sculptor. But there’s certainly a wall for me becoming a professional athlete, lol!

So like most things in life, it’s always much more complex and complicated than surface level black and whites.

Retrospective_Anger · 2022-07-15T03:41:17+00:00

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NaphtaliC · 2022-07-15T08:46:17+00:00

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bigni44a · 2022-07-15T08:04:02+00:00

They are oversimplifying a natural phenomenon and not taking into account other variable like human emotions, however, for women, the number of open options they have does drop after 30.

2022-07-19T18:23:06+00:00

I think women loose SMV after 35, not 30. A woman can Look good until 35 and is quiet fertile until 35. But after 35 it does go downhil. Tho it always depends. A 33 year old woman can get a 43 yesr old man easily. A 37 yesr old woman will havw no Problem finding a 47 year old man for example. Men loose their SMV with age too, but Not as Quick as women. I do Party agree with it, but I think the Red pill Dramatises it a lot and pretends men dont age. Women in their 20s maybe would date men in their 30s but usually Not men in their 40s. So men do defintely loose SMV. Unless they are VERY wealthy, like Not just having a decent job but basically Being able to buy women Tons of luxuriös Things. But thats Not 90% of men.

justLernin · 2022-07-20T15:50:54+00:00

Woman hit a 'wall' - it's called menopause. They look less attractive afterwards, and can't have children.

Even beforehand, ten years of age generally doesn't do a girl's looks any favors, and looks is one of the main things guys seem to look for.

Of course, these things only matter as much as the 'buyer' values them. For men who aren't looking to eventually have a family with her, if the guy is attracted, he's attracted.

Gmed66 · 2022-07-21T20:35:44+00:00

Absolute nonsense.

Fun_Access_599 · 2022-08-08T17:22:50+00:00

Only red pillers believe in the Wall black pillers don't I am not red pilled but I do believe in the black pill a lot.

Extension_Warthog137 · 2022-11-26T20:00:55+00:00

Hahahahaha 😃

THIS.

This concept has literally been written up from a Bipolar/borderline internal narrative. Its actually the main reason why we may diagnose someone who experiences mental health difficulties.

SMV is how a narcissistic person would live their life - by seeking sexual pleasure of the flesh. Or a person who only sees people as sexual objects for their immediate sexual gratification and sexual orgasm.

HelloCthulhu81 · 2022-11-28T23:11:04+00:00

Because of dating apps and social media belligerents (redpillers, hypergamy enthusiasts, rabid feminists, and incels) , sexual market value is becoming a quantifiable margin in our minds. Or maybe it was always there and due to living in the post-information age we're just more aware of it. I imagine the sexual marketplace we consciously/subconsciously think about uses what I call "the 5 scale" to determine a person's value based on their dating performance indicators.
For women:

5 - she consistently dates high value men (extremely rich and/or clout heavy men)

4 - she's attractive, but probably wouldn't get invited to members only clubs

3 - she's average and dates average men with average looks and average earning potential)

2 - she's only pursued by unattractive, drunk, and/or broke men

1 - no one wants this person

For men all you have to do is switch the values (eg. he consistently dates models, he's only having sex with unattractive women, etc). I'm not red pilled, but I've watched enough of their content to know how they and the women they've interviewed think.

Title	What do you guys think of sexual market value?
Author	Retrospective_Anger
Upvotes	71
Comments	89
Date	July 15, 2022 3:14 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/vze79q/what_do_you_guys_think_of_sexual_market_value/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/what-do-you-guys-think-of-sexual-market-value.1123756 https://theredarchive.com/post/1123756

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