In my experience, how an argument goes when talking about men's rights and the crossover to abortion

CatPeedOnTheSofa · 2022-06-29T13:10:59+00:00

Yeah I really don't get how the most advanced life form on this earth that has spent thousands of years building culture and science cannot see the hypocrisy inherent here....

my body, my choice - "great! good for you! you go girl! stunning and brave!"

my wallet, my choice - "gross! pig! not a man! stand up! incel!"

like....excuse me? It sucks because you can't even bring up the conversation without risking getting completely shunned and pigeon-holed as some misogynistic asshole 99.99999% of the time.

But isn't this what feminism actually is? equality? so where's muh equality? If a women doesn't wan't a child, just blip it out of existence, if a man doesn't want a child...ha! deadbeat loser! here's 18+ years of a financial burden and a constant disdain from society

gckman915 · 2022-06-29T14:46:48+00:00

I'm not against men having to pay child support if the support actually and only benefits the child. Some single moms can definitely use that help.

However, I know of a few examples of men paying child support to a woman that has kids with other men, who are also paying child them support. These irresponsible moms spending that extra money on shit like booze and tattoos, hair and nails, etc while the kids are being fed cheap, no name food and wearing old clothes.

There should be some external oversight on how child support payments are spent. Maybe it can be paid out like food stamps, gift cards, or something rather than cash. Basically, it's called child support and thus should be used to support the child, not their mother's lavish spending habits.

Angio343 · 2022-06-29T14:39:33+00:00

It usualy goes like this:

Person A: "Men have no reproductive rights"

Person B: "Men can wear a condom, get a vasectomy or just keep it in their pants."

Person A: "That's literally the argument of pro-life about women to justify banning abortion"

Person B: *start yelling insults*

BobRyanHere · 2022-06-29T15:36:53+00:00

"Just get a vasectomy! It's reversible!"

Reading the science, there's a distinct difference between successful reversal, which refers to only stitching the tubes back together successfully, NOT fertility. The chance of being fertile decreases given the number of years the vasectomy was in place.

I for one am sick of being told to use a permanent option by woman who have at least a dozen temporary options.

I'd love to share the burden but the best we have as men are condoms and sterility.

If you want us to be partners in this fight at least be outraged with us for our lack of options.

QueeniTika · 2022-06-29T20:17:39+00:00

As a woman who’s been pregnant carrying a pregnancy for nine months compared to 18 years of financial support against your will it’s not even comparable.

No one who is logical it’s going to say that nine months is worse than 18 years.

RandomofEmbers · 2022-06-29T12:22:31+00:00

Meh. She/He/It/They discriminates on a basis of being able to carry a baby. She is bigoted pregnatist and should be cancelled.

pielok · 2022-06-29T13:33:35+00:00

canada sucks for men.. especially non white males.. treated like 3rd class citizens, been here half a year cant wait to gtfo

ralphswanson · 2022-06-29T20:54:44+00:00

Canada is a misandrous nation. Many laws discriminate against men, in practice at least. With prostitution, men are set to prison, women immune. Employment quotas favour women despite 75% of the extended government workforce being female. Those are the best jobs in Canada. Criminal law treats Karla Homolka as a victim. Child custody is ruled by women.

TextDependent6779 · 2022-06-29T23:24:34+00:00

Men can wear a condom, get a vasectomy or just keep it in their pants.

all options women have. and more.

DiversityIsDivisive · 2022-06-30T03:19:00+00:00

I've been thinking about this. It may be more productive to start by saying that in Canada men are held responsible for what women do with their bodies

DanteLivra · 2022-06-29T15:55:30+00:00

When men are drafted -> The draft isn't great, because then there is less men to work for women.

When women are drafted -> This is literally fascism, THEY ARE DRAFTING OUR DAUGHTERS HOW DARE THEY ?!?!?!

McFeely_Smackup · 2022-06-29T16:23:10+00:00

it's funny how quickly arguments about Mens reproductive rights turns into the same arguments used to ban abortion...like usually the first argument presented.

they don't even see it. they're making all the anti-abortion arguments, and wondering where their abortion rights went.

TheSoviet_Onion · 2022-06-29T14:24:47+00:00

Also they get angry when you suggest that the financial incentive for abortion should be taken away by making abortions cost as much as children

eyesayhello · 2022-06-29T16:46:31+00:00

Respond, "you hate men and want to control their money and time."

NutsLikeMelons · 2022-06-29T14:18:32+00:00

The very simple solution to this problem is to make child support only payable in the event of divorce and have it be itemised to the dollar based on what the kid actually needs.

I’ll go back to dreaming now.

arbelhod · 2022-06-29T18:49:34+00:00

In the second part where you talk you should have added "and women can also keep their legs closed"

Ferbuggity · 2022-06-29T15:09:34+00:00

Lapsing back into the "by rote" catch-phrasey speech of indoctrination is how most cult members cope with ideas that contradict the cult's ideology. It provides comfort for the cognitive dissonance created when their tightly controlled world view is challenged, especially when the cult is mentally or physically punitive to those who go 'out of bounds'.

iainmf · 2022-06-30T02:37:29+00:00

Interestingly, the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women requires countries to give men and women equal reproductive rights. Of course, everybody reads it as only applying to women.

The United States has not signed the Convention, but just about every other country has.

Article 16

States Parties shall take all appropriate measures to eliminate discrimination against women in all matters relating to marriage and family relations and in particular shall ensure, on a basis of equality of men and women:

...

(d) The same rights and responsibilities as parents, irrespective of their marital status, in matters relating to their children; in all cases the interests of the children shall be paramount;

(e) The same rights to decide freely and responsibly on the number and spacing of their children and to have access to the information, education and means to enable them to exercise these rights;

...

EricAllonde · 2022-06-30T05:19:22+00:00

PC: Men can wear a condom, get a vasectomy or just keep it in their pants.

Me: "Congratulations! You just made the classic hardline pro-life argument: women don't need access to abortions because if they don't want a child they can just keep their legs together."

Duchat · 2022-06-29T15:09:21+00:00

A case I heard of recently here on Reddit:

Young man goes to party. He gets fed booze on purpose until he passes out. That person had also given him viagra, hops on, he unconsciously finishes, baby 9 months later. Goes to family court, DNA proves paternity. Man argues, judge rules he owes child support because it’s in the best interest of the child.

I believe it was in the US, don’t have a link anymore.

awkwarddoggos · 2022-06-29T19:29:35+00:00

As I’ve been saying for quite some time a man should have every single right to sign a legal binding contract to give away all rights to a unwanted child so he never has to pay a pound!! Women are fully entitled to abortion and I support it wholeheartedly for so many reasons but it’s time both parents have the same rights

Alarming_Draw · 2022-06-29T19:17:40+00:00

In Canada, which is ground fucking zero for feminist man haters, abortions are given in the FINAL WEEK of pregnancy, even though babies routinely live after pregnancies of just FIVE months.

If anything, I think Canada needs to change its abortion laws and stop killing kids. European abortion laws are mostly the same as new American laws now. Canada is alone in such extremism, and should take a long hard look at itself.

Diligent-Exam-3719 · 2022-06-30T07:12:21+00:00

This is the problem with the us vs them mindset. You're being progressively and maybe even agressively pro choice. But because you're not directly agreeing to a single main line of thought that is considered "pro choice". You are therefore the opposition.. pro life.

But the thing is if you had that conversation with a standard example of a pro life person. They'd feel the exact same way and consider you the opposition.. pro choice.

We can agree that women should have the basic right to choose and go through unique circumstances men will never relate to and support women as women and understand men haven't got freedom in their lives either.

Men in the US still have to sign up to be drafted for service. It's required. All men have to do it. We don't have a choice over our bodies either.

aren3141 · 2022-06-29T16:31:55+00:00

What I don’t get is the personal responsibility angle. Aren’t men and only men responsible for when and where they ejaculate (except rape)? Isn’t that our reproductive right? Shouldn’t we take responsibility for that?

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2022-06-29T23:08:35+00:00

It's because a women's body has to literally morph to carry a child. Men and woman are biologically different so rights and expectations of each are going to be different . Men's bodies don't morph , tear open or lactate . It's not complicated though process. Both parents will be obligated finacially after the baby is born ,but woman's body literally must heal which takes months .

Healthy_Question_224 · 2022-06-30T00:29:12+00:00

Don't worry about your reproductive rights, you aren't going to be in any danger with that attitude.

Laniekea · 2022-06-29T16:31:32+00:00

You have the same rights women should have. If your child needs part of your liver you have the ability to refuse, and allow the child to die.

You might get to exercise your rights less often, but you also have bodily autonomy.

WestAppointment2484 · 2022-06-29T21:17:15+00:00

What does carrying the baby have to do with it anyway?

SecondEldenLord · 2022-06-29T22:06:53+00:00

I would really love for feminists to live as a man for just one day and maybe, just maybe only then they can see their whole hipocrisy.

Huffers1010 · 2022-06-30T00:19:00+00:00

This is not a very smart argument to get into, sadly. No, her final reaction was not reasonable, but that doesn't make this a very useful conversation.

Unless we're going to either a) force women to get abortions, or b) allow any father to arbitrarily abandon his unborn child and its mother, neither of which is reasonable, there is no good solution to this.

I don't like the fact that dads get no say. The biology forces it upon us. This is not great. I don't like this reality any more than anyone else, but I think the only supportable solutions are preventative or corrective. A male contraceptive pill would be great. Better family courts would be great.

But sadly I have to agree with PC's statement about carrying the child. But it's not about the moral act of carrying the baby. It's about the sheer biological practicality of it.

If anyone can think of a way to make the so-called paper abortion work, I'm listening, but right now it is not something I can support.

ItzCreeper246 · 2022-06-30T04:48:07+00:00

another point: since there is like a cord thing connecting their bodies so its THEIR body not just hers and by their I mean hers and the child's. and you dont need to carry the baby to have a say. the baby is half of his nut

Edit: Grammar

hornetka · 2022-07-02T15:51:12+00:00

There are hypocrites on every side of literally everything to ever happen in human history. If men are doing what they can to not get someone pregnant and/or are very clear they do not want a child. There should be things in place to help with that inevitably. the woman has to sign away child support if it her choice to have the baby even though the father does not want to maybe? But if there were no steps taken to prevent pregnancy from the sex in question your out of luck. If she has to deal with so do you that's just the risk of sex. Especially now with all this religious horseshit taking not only woman's rights to choose to have a baby but men's rights as well.

The problem in the USA now is women no longer have the right to choose what happens to their own body which affects everyone trying to live a responsible life both men and women. The only thing banning abortions is going to do is kill more woman when they try to end an unwanted pregnancy through whatever means they can.

hornetka · 2022-07-02T17:13:45+00:00

Where in that post did I mention RvW?

Title	In my experience, how an argument goes when talking about men's rights and the crossover to abortion
Author	Mode1961
Upvotes	224
Comments	262
Date	June 29, 2022 12:16 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vnef1a/in_my_experience_how_an_argument_goes_when/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/in-my-experience-how-an-argument-goes-when-talking.1209478 https://theredarchive.com/post/1209478

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