Is it better to have too many kids or miss the train and end up childless?

Ok-Coat7665 · 2023-11-17T05:30:04+00:00

Better to be childless and unhappy by yourself than have a bunch of unhappy kids you don’t have the money, time, and energy to raise properly.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-11-17T05:46:47+00:00

Someone not having kids can end up being miserable but they're the only one hurt. Someone who has too many kids can end up causing misery for themselves and their kids.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-11-17T07:00:18+00:00

Worse to have too many

If I (as someone who wants kids) miss the boat I'd be unhappy.

If I end up with too many kids that I can't be a good parent, Id be unhappy, my kids will be unhappy and my kids will have a higher chance of growing up and making other people unhappy.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-11-17T07:20:02+00:00

Childless definitely. Even if you ideally want to have children biologically there are lots of options to parent children or otherwise have fulfilling relationships with them if you can't. But if you have a child you don't want it's not like you can put it back. They're around as a reminder of your mistake for the rest of your life and you're going to feel so guilty about seeing them that way, and they're going to demand huge sacrifices from your life so it's worse than just having a gap to fill.

Electronic_West_1831 · 2023-11-17T07:34:36+00:00

Too many kids = unwanted kids who will know that they are unwanted and grow up with issues associated with that.

Children aren’t pets or accessories that can be discarded when they’ve served their purpose, and creating life to fill a void or pass time is extremely selfish.

Far_Welcome101 · 2023-11-17T06:19:15+00:00

a lot of people shouldnt be parents (chris watts, chad doerman, etc).. idk i think we need more childless people

Safinated · 2023-11-17T06:56:04+00:00

Depends on the person. You can end up alone even if you have a boatload of kids, or be surrounded by people even if you have none

Fauxmannequin · 2023-11-17T07:40:31+00:00

Easy choice for me. I would 100% rather be childless. The thought of have one kid scares the hell out of me, yet alone having several.

AidsVictim · 2023-11-17T08:12:37+00:00

Most people adapt to having "too many" (by what metric is too many?) children better than you'd think. In the industrialized world even someone with more children than they can afford in terms of middle class lifestyle can still give their kids a better upbringing in terms of nutrition, education, and material accoutrement than 99% of children throughout history, including their near ancestors in many cases.

While having "a lot" (3-4+) kids in the modern world is definitely work and can be stressful, I've seen many people manage it and have very successful careers as well (usually with the help of at least one stay at home or part time working parent or grandparents helping manage the kids).

People having too many kids are not the ones abusing children or being driven to psychotic breaks or whatever that gets posted by the usual reddit types here. People pre disposed to abuse will usually do so regardless of whether they have one or four kids. The idea of parents being driven to abuse by having larger families is extremely tenuous.

Most anxiety around having a large family is wrapped up in middle class types precarious class positions. They want to maintain their middle class material pretensions and perhaps just as importantly their kids need to at least maintain if not expand on those pretensions to be "respectable" in modern class theater. Fears about abuse or exploitation (of the kids or mother) are mostly just morally righteous covers for these anxieties.

As for which is worse or better I think few people that have families really regret family formation and the kind of unmatched social bonding that generates even if they have some regrets about not being about to live out some bourgeoise fantasy life (there are exceptions of course that genuinely would trade family for an easier/wealthier life).

Living with regret over missing those connections and having a family is it's own kind of hell that's not really equivalent to the stresses of large family life if that's something an individual genuinely wants.

_Chaos_And_Horny_ · 2023-11-17T09:52:35+00:00

Miss the train or torture many? Hmmm

abcixtwt · 2023-11-17T09:59:34+00:00

I would rather be childless and miserable because I’m the only one affected instead of having many children being miserable and causing them suffering and trauma. So it’s better to be childless.

obviousredflag · 2023-11-17T10:49:50+00:00

Depends on the reasons for wanting kids, i suppose. There is no biological drive to have kids as far as i know. It's a lifestyle choice or a values-based "choice". If you base your value as a woman on being a mother/having had children in your lifetime, then not having them might be a great shock, especially if these values are so ingrained in your culture and community, that you cannot just get out of that and have other values, that don't let you see yourself in a negative light for not having children.

When it's a lifestyle choice, that choice can be filled by something else, when kids are not turning out to happen. It's upsetting, but not to the point of threatening your inner view of yourself.

We derive how we view ourselves and our value partly (mostly i'd say) from our surroundings. If your social circle pressures you to have children and devalues you for not having them, this can weight heavily on the psyche.

To the question what is better: Too many kids, if your reason for kids is value-based/culture-based. Each additional kid is causing less stress than the previous one. On average, people regret getting more than 3 kids, so i'd recommend aiming for 2 and taking a third as an accident, but not a 4th. Less than 20% of parents want only 1 child. So if you are not part of that group, start having your first kid early, as ending up with not enough time to have a second child is also causing unhappiness. Kids are mostly an all or nothing decision. 1 child preferences are low.

If your approach to kids is lifestyle based and you can substitute the kids-lifestyle with a DINKS-lifestyle just fine, it's better to have no children than too many. As no children come with barely any negative cost, and too many can have various associated costs, but definitely more than the other case.

Friedrich_Friedson · 2023-11-17T12:06:56+00:00

End up childless

If you have too many children you don't want,you fuck up yourself and these kids. If you end up childless and don't want that,you just fuck up yourself.

Aromatic_Ad5473 · 2023-11-17T12:57:09+00:00

The person may be less miserable with a lot of kids but it’s not about them. It’s about their kids. The kids they can’t properly care for who will suffer

A childless person can adopt.

Good_Instance_9498 · 2023-11-17T16:38:25+00:00

Kids deserve to be loved and treasured. People who have kids with little foresight and aren’t mentally prepared to deal with them pass on trauma. Id say childless wanting kids is the better option.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2023-11-17T05:38:47+00:00

That woman who famously froze her eggs talks about how she screamed like a wild animal when none of her eggs took.

🙄🤮

Anyone who wants to be a parent can be a parent. There's no shortage of children who need homes. Temporarily or permanently.

Oh, I guess I almost forgot - childfree people are the selfish ones 🙄

It's always worse to have too many children who suffer due to their parents' irresponsibility and lack of foresight and intelligence. The suffering of innocent children due to neglect, abuse, and/or insufficient resources dwarfs the "agony" of someone that they can't breed or be bred.

SlothMonster9 · 2023-11-17T06:57:59+00:00

If you're childless you can always adopt how many kids you want and you'd be a hero and happy. But if you already have a bunch of kids, I don't think you'd be willing to let them go because of the stigma you'd face, so you'd be effectively stuck in your unhappiness.

SeveralLiterature980 · 2023-11-17T08:34:31+00:00

The only reason I started to pull myself toward whatever you could call a source of light from the hellhole that is modern dating --- people don't realize that men with options can quickly descend into a dark hedonistic, hateful spiral, from which some never seem to recover at all --- was my son.

The thought of the world warping his good, optimistic, kind, empathetic, and brave nature was a serious wake up call to stop fucking around and figure out a way for him to survive this as intact as possible.

His mother is a bit younger than me, she was only 23 when I met her and had been in a sorority. She was super immature when I met her in a lot of ways. Who she is now vs then is like night/day difference. All because of him.

Having something shock you outside of yourself and focusing on only yourself is an important first step in escaping the worldview that just seems pushed everywhere at all times in modern society.

Kids can be that push for some (definitely not others, though).

And in your example, well lol, someone with a ton of kids very young likely has a range of issues --- and fathers, which means the odds of her spawn robbing/killing or otherwise hurting someone are much higher than average.

The childless person in this example, you know, they're sad, but their sadness and their issues aren't going to mug someone at 3 in the morning in a dark alley at least.

literaryhogwartian · 2023-11-17T09:50:54+00:00

The latter. The first is bad for the children.

lvoncreek · 2023-11-17T15:03:08+00:00

That woman who famously froze her eggs talks about how she screamed like a wild animal when none of her eggs took.

Then she probably realized she has other options if she wants children so much.

Honestly its ridiculous to think the childless scenario is worse. Nobody is harmed by that and the woman can figure it out. But with too many children... what the hell do you do? You cannot murder your children if you are fed up with them or they make your life harder. You can maybe ask for help but you cannot just get rid of your children. Its obviously a much more difficult situation to deal with.

Involuntary childlessness might be an emotional burden for the woman, but too many children is all kinds of burden that you just cannot get rid of.

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-11-17T06:37:45+00:00

Which situation is less mentally destructive?

Whichever is easiest to process, accept, and let go. Objectively any adversity is only as destructive, as one’s capacity to move beyond it.

Godspeed and good luck!

TSquaredRecovers · 2023-11-18T00:56:17+00:00

This is very difficult for me to answer because I already have a child, and I can’t imagine my life without him. I would have liked to have had a second but I experienced secondary infertility due to endometriosis, so that never happened. It was really somewhat of a miracle that I even had my son.

With that said, between the two scenarios, the thought of having a bunch of kids—like over 5 or 6—sounds not so great. The early years with a kid are not the easiest, with sleep deprivation and juggling tasks not for the faint of heart. I have no freaking idea how people handle so many kids. I’m just not cut out for mothering half of a sports team. One or two kids is my ideal.

TheRealMichaelBluth · 2023-11-17T05:36:00+00:00

It’s definitely nuanced. Personally for me it’s be a different kind of miserable for each. But, I’m honestly more worried about missing the train and ending up childless. I have enough money that I can get the snip after I’ve had a child

lacuti3 · 2023-11-17T05:47:05+00:00

Everyone copes with their choices some way. Like when guys date ok-looking women and convince themselves that’s what they really wanted

abaxeron · 2023-11-17T08:18:46+00:00

A person's total child count is not a result of their execution of free will and has a huge basis in genetics. Female elevated fertility is associated with the same inheritable traits as male homosexuality. One of the greatest social predictors of having or not having kids is living in a big city. So, in general, I think this framing of the question is too reductionist. We're all simply genes expressed in environment. Any situation is less mentally destructive when you make peace with it.

wtknight · 2023-11-17T14:13:34+00:00

It’s better to have too many kids, I think. At least one is creating some sort of legacy. Being childless for most people is almost like not even ever existing.

md8716 · 2023-11-17T17:46:14+00:00

Way better to have too many kids. Sure we may not be rich, but we'd have what we need to get by and be surrounded by love. That is a life worth living. A life spent feeding ones own survival needs and hedonistic desires is not, IMO.

Id rather have 7 kids than 0. But I'm cool with the 3 I got, lol.

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relish5k · 2023-11-17T17:46:13+00:00

I’d rather have too many kids.* No interest in being a genetic dead end.

A friend of mine was telling me about her childfree-by-choice friend, saying how now that as she gets older she has to create artificial milestones to give her life meaning. Going to visit 50 states before 50! Climbing 6 mountains by 60! I guess that’s ok if that’s your thing but I think I would die of shame if that were me.

*for me too many would be 4, not 12

Toxic_LigmaMale · 2023-11-17T18:51:22+00:00

In the long run? Childless.

My parents never had a ton of money. We were comfortably middle class. But I still love them. I do wish I had siblings though, to hopefully take some pressure off of me when it comes to taking care of them.

Even when coming from nothing, a coordinated family unit can accomplish a lot.

TheMedsPeds · 2023-11-17T19:49:06+00:00

I’ll never understand why those people don’t adopt.

Familiesarenations · 2023-11-17T19:59:47+00:00

Better to miss the train. You can always adopt.

bluestjuice · 2023-11-18T00:42:03+00:00

So my perspective on this is heavily informed by my own personal experiences with infertility and infant loss, full disclosure.

I think that the person who wanted kids but it didn’t work out absolutely goes through a grieving process that is acute and painful, but like other kinds of grief eases over time and moves out of the forefront of their daily life. After some length of time they most often will make their peace with the circumstance and other activities, goals, and people will eventually take center stage. Most of the time I believe this person will find other ways to be happy.

For the person who had too many kids, the regret and dismay they feel is probably more chronic and persists throughout the period of child-rearing (so, 18-30 years potentially). They are also probably going to grieve whatever life goals they feel were sacrificed to their role as a parent, albeit likely not as keenly as the parent-that-never-was. This scenario is stressful and exhausting more than it is sad.

Both scenarios are fairly lonely; there are relatively few people or places to share regret over the loss of a chance at being a parent, and even fewer where it’s acceptable to share regret at being one. Which is ‘better’ in an abstract sense probably has most to do with personality type (would you rather have a large sharp pain all at once, or a smaller, duller pain prolonged for a long time?).

Title	Is it better to have too many kids or miss the train and end up childless?
Author	penndelnj
Upvotes	2
Comments	74
Date	November 17, 2023 5:22 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17x7uel/is_it_better_to_have_too_many_kids_or_miss_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-it-better-to-have-too-many-kids-or-miss-the.1238652 https://theredarchive.com/post/1238652

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