Is Mystery outdated? Who is today’s greatest PUA?

norwegiandoggo · 2024-07-24T20:47:56+00:00

I don't think any sane human being wants to call themselves a PUA anymore. The term / idea itself is outdated. It has a lot of bad connotations stuck to the past ideals.

It's also meaningless to discuss who is best. Because there's no PUA contest being hosted and no-one is keeping score of anything.

These days it's more based on who you like as a content creator. And in terms of content creation i think Mark Manson takes the cake with his massive audience.

Wean1eHu11 · 2024-07-24T23:26:16+00:00

Mystery and all the other guys in The Game pioneered a lot of relationship and attraction theory that still stands today, things like demonstrating value, not being needy, framing, stuff like that. If you copy paste their routines and methods exactly however it would be well out of date, no one under 35 is going to know who the fuck Maury Povich is for the Maury Povich opener for instance and if you see pictures of those guys peacocking back in the day they look like fucking clowns.

RSD pivoted towards inner game because they realised that trying to get guys with no confidence to do routines that require confidence to sell them properly was never going to work, granted it just came from a business and marketing perspective rather than a self help perspective.

There aren’t really any great PUAs today because the basics are established and simple, so the influencer PUAs you see are just rehashing and over complicating the basics to get views

_notaxation · 2024-07-24T23:49:06+00:00

There are some aspects of they mystery method that are outdated. But for the most part, his core structure of how to seduce, bed, and ultimately develop a sexual relationship with a woman is still super solid. I reference him all the time when I give advice in this sub. As you can see in this very thread, more people have a problem with the IDEA of a PUA and the label of PUA rather than the meat and potatoes of what they are trying to accomplish. There are plenty of PUA's running around right now under a different name. It's all marketing. The game won't ever change.

easy-money-sniperr · 2024-07-24T22:26:55+00:00

Just read up/do it yourself. The best way to pickup is being the best version of yourself

McPigg · 2024-07-25T01:14:23+00:00

His structure, concepts and tactics are genius and work very well, every succesful natural i ever observed instinctivly did his own version of most of his methods. Its a fantastic tool for analzing, troubleshooting and improving your social skills, from meeting at a social gathering up forming a relationship

The lines and routines he used, those are utter cringe. He was an early 2000s hollywood nagician, and thats what the content of his game reflecst. I would basically throw them all out, maybe if your some goth guy you can make some of it work

Come up with your own (tailored to your personality, life experiences, communication style and niche) lines and little pieces to do these tactics/ follow the structure, and you will be the king in any social enviroment.

Of course, it is lacking the whole online & social media aspect, which is super important nowadays.

PUA in general got a bad rep, but its just persuasion amd influence and this stuff works.

The big problem with mystery method is, its complex and most people domt really get it, especially when just reading it or just getting hung up on the weird lingo/routines. Its not an easy, intuitive system at all (well it is, when you understand it, but that takes effort and application)

zebekias · 2024-07-24T23:36:42+00:00

Mystery's venutian arts handbook 2nd edition is still a masterpiece.

epimpstyle · 2024-07-24T23:06:39+00:00

No, it is not outdated, it is just hard for many people to understand.

All the concepts are used: DHV, DLV, push-pull, cocky/funny, frame, leading/pacing, qualification, 3-second rule... name any concept and it is already written in the Mystery's book. If these concepts do not work, it will be outdated.

josephrx78 · 2024-07-25T00:47:50+00:00

I think social media has introduced a level of accountability that didn't exist in the early PUA days. While a lot of the principles still apply, you have to be more mindful of your status and reputation now. Unless you live in a large city travel often, it's in your best interest to work on just being a good and fun individual. Reading The Game recently has also illustrated that Mystery as a person is a sad joke. We can do better as men.

jamesfalken · 2024-07-25T03:57:03+00:00

PUA (pick up autism) is dead, thank god. Move on.

Cartoonist_False · 2024-07-25T03:52:45+00:00

Mystery himself is definitely outdated or better "outmoded". He specialized in club game and creating a small community i.e. A version of a social game.

Most of the principles of MM3 model are valid in abstract but they're also very well known in the general public so if you're not well calibrated you'll get called out fairly quickly.

Also mystery is completely pre-internet. He himself says that he only went on one date off an app. So there is a huge segment he doesn't cover.

Even back in the day there were better day-gamers and social gamers. So if you look at the bigger landscape i.e. - Day game - Social circle / Social Media - Dating apps - Hookup sites

The bar/club game has shrunk in significance e.g. 50% people now meet online. So just statistically those gambits and routines need to be refreshed for the current landscape. The principles mostly hold.

sexygorilla1 · 2024-07-24T21:40:25+00:00

Yes. Ultimate man project if you are going for the "fuck boy" game. Nowadays with social media, its 80% status and 20% game. Michael sartain and patrick red are the only people I know that teaches status.

2024-07-25T03:09:14+00:00

If you like mystery, check out mark sing and the unapologetic man podcast. He uses mystery method

Atriev · 2024-07-25T05:28:04+00:00

Mystery built the framework/foundation which allowed modern PU. It’s quite outdated but has a lot of good foundational concepts.

MeteoraRed · 2024-07-25T05:28:48+00:00

Zan Perrion author of Alabaster girl.

creole7supreme · 2024-08-26T18:07:04+00:00

I'm a fan of his ideas and method. Is it perfect? No but does he break it down in a easy digestible way? Absolutely. Just study and apply what you can from his ideas and who cares about who's the "best". Have you gotten better?

Substantial_Jump7042 · 2024-09-23T07:48:05+00:00

Theres still tons of people I run into from many cities running pua stuff so it’s clearly not dead despite what ofher comments say. And theres dozens and dozens of coaches online almost all of them use some level of pua stuff from the ones teaching dating apps or cold approach. The market is still rampant with it. That simply an observation. That is not saying or implying that I like it or do not like it. Theres no clear measuring stick they use typically other than how many girls absolute they hooked up with or how many attractive ones or testimonials but the market is filled with coaches with not much of that and not much real evidence. They just talk to a camera and do daily videos. Any content with girls is usually average or ugly girls. And their testimonials are usually just “he made me feel more confident” rather than “ i got laid” But theres probably prominent 100 mens dating coaches online, from drunk justin to austin summers to pickup alpha to michael sartain to patrick red to trippadvice to playing with fire to mystery to todd valentine to aisenli… point is a lot of smoke and mirrors u have to sift through. Some are legit good and have evidence and some not so much. Ill let u decide urself so it doesnt look like im biased by picking some. And there’s new ones coming into the market almost every few months. I think the answer to your question depends on if you’re just asking for curiosity sake, or if you’re asking to find a coach that will be impactful. For the latter, you’re much better off, looking for a bunch of testimonials And success stories of people similar to your background. Because what really matters is if they can help you get to where you want. And unfortunately, you might be surprised to find a lot of coaches like are not like that. And they’re not willing to coach you in person for a long enough time to really iron out the body language you use and all the other things that you need to fix and see you in conversations because they make more money just doing virtual zoom calls Or their testimonials imply, a lack of social understanding. For example, one photo that the ABCs of attraction displayed prominently in their testimonials for years and years, was an awkward, skinny Asian guy, forcing a smile with a deer in the headlights look in a nightclub with two blonde women with big tits next to him on either side. That shows such a lack of social awareness from the coaches themselves since they think that it’s a win that they convinced these two girls to snap a photo with a stranger, so he has “pre-selection.” Whereas in reality, anyone who had any social awareness can see from the body language that this guy is scared to death and shy and has no chance and it’s not real preselection.

And there’s also the question of is the best one someone who was just naturally good and just roast through the ranks or someone who really sucked and was socially awkward, and maybe became from a lot of disadvantages and then overcame a bunch of those?

PUA_BEST · 2024-11-01T14:50:16+00:00

Hello, if anybody is interest, I have tons of pua and social skills data on my disks. If someon is interes pm me

Bobbert84 · 2024-11-04T04:20:57+00:00

It was never outdated. It was just not particularly great. The Core of it was correct, but a lot of the other things weren't optimal and were added so he could have his own style which he could pitch. Which worked cause the core works.

Pick up and social dynamics hasn't changed. It is a solved problem with depends on skill, application and outside factors aligning. There is nothing new anyone can teach you about it there hasn't been out in the public for the last 10 years. The only thing that is kind of new is the maximizing of social media for effect. How to present your profiles on Tinder, Instagram, facebook, ect.... But even that is pretty straight forward. It's 90% about the pictures (not just how you look in them but your social interactions and activities you do in them). Add in a few basic lines and your good. So there really isn't much there as i think it was agreed upon that great pics and with text less is more is the way to go.

And there will not be a best PUA cause most guys into it realize paying thousands of bucks for these skills isn't a good idea as they can just read it themselves and apply for it for free. So there is no high paying base to support these 'pros'. I think that's a good thing though as often i think these guys WAY overcharged and made out like bandits.

gundamfan83 · 2024-12-04T04:09:52+00:00

He isn't outdated - it's just that you can't find his material easily because it's largely hidden from the Internet now. That said - the old internet is still around, if people stop using instagram/tiktok - the material from the last 14 years is still around. I'd also say don't use Google, use other search engines like Qwant or Presearch since mainstream search engines are pretty crappy given the censorship. I would say in modern times, anything taught from the Mystery era is still gold. Everything was good all the way up until Julien from RSD broke the internet with dark game. Dark game is effective but also will get you in trouble. Stay in light mode.

Tatleman68 · 2024-07-24T22:59:21+00:00

Nah man, as long as curiousity exists, mystery will remain in the game

LordOfDustAndBones · 2024-07-25T04:50:11+00:00

Pua bs is outdated and cringe

ThroatFinal5732 · 2024-07-25T12:54:53+00:00

As a fan of Mystery. Here’s my quick take.

Many of the ideas he introduced did and still have worked for me.

But they’re merely a blueprint, you still need to develop the inner game (confidence, genuine happiness, body language etc.) necessary to approach women without seeming creepy, and the creativity to come up with things to say in different conversations and scenarios.

His book, the Mystery Method has very little content on inner game and overall social skills. Instead in lays down a series of steps that, generally work, but only if you have to social intelligence to apply them correctly.

I think the reason it worked for me was because, by the time I found it, I had already developed a strong inner game, (through years of therapy and reading stoic and existential philosophy) and great creativity and social skills (which I credit the YouTube channel Charisma on Command for teaching me).

On the side note, on the ethical side, many people deem his approach as “morally wrong” due to it relaying on lies and manipulation on some steps. “Negging” in particular, can backfire nowadays that people are easily offended, not to mention that many therapists are aware of this tactic and made some women wary of it.

Finally, one last critique, his methods rely on talking (and therefore on the women hearing you) so it’s hard to use them on places with loud music like clubs and bars.

In conclusion, it has many concepts that are still useful, but merely knowing them won’t be enough, you need to practice them, and hone them until you perfect their application.

As for the best PUA nowadays, haven’t read him, but many people have recommended Mark Manson, the author of Models, as a better alternative.

P.S. To be clear, when I say his methods “worked for me” I mean they’ve statistically increased my success rate during the last few months. If you’re looking for a magic bullet that works 100% of the time, I’m sorry but that doesn’t exist.

sidgat · 2024-07-25T15:21:20+00:00

PUA thinking is outdated these days.

Nowadays, the best 'PUAs' are the men with the best social media content that DM women...got money, great lifestyle, status, muscle etc? Post it all online and DM women...that's how the best girls are being 'picked up'.

PAKISTANIRAMBO · 2024-07-25T06:09:52+00:00

I think PUA is outdated. It was concept for before the swipe apps came on. Now, nothing like that would fly. Just focus on optimising your apps and you’d be swimming in pussy.

Nigelthornfruit · 2024-07-25T11:12:56+00:00

Todd

shotta511 · 2024-07-25T11:22:59+00:00

I think, after reading 2 more books, Mystery is the most sane PUA ever and the best author.

Cut the peacocking shit and you are good to go with his mystery method.

For me, its the only book you should read (but should do more than once) and then practice.

Mystery always blames you for not performing, not knowing the science etc. He never blames the woman, nothing near misogynistic behaviour.

He is the Goat and will stay there.

jackthehat6 · 2024-07-24T22:15:13+00:00

there's kind of no such thing.

If someone gets laid a tonne with hot young girls, it's never because of his 'game'. PUA's get laid, but it's because they are approaching so many girls that they stumble across the girls who are attracted to them

Weirdly, i'd say most PUA's actually do more harm than good with their various 'tricks' and lines and theories etc and tend to come across quite strange, messing up what should be 'lay ups' due to their 'rules' ! ('mystery' is probably a decent example of that in fact! if you've seen all his infields you'll know waht I mean)

They're basically just grifters. It's like selling a course on how to use a knife and fork the best way! It's like, 'dude, I can use a knife and fork already. Why are you trying to turn it into some complicated science?!'

In my body, any PUA I can think of would get the same results as me, and so would I in theirs, basically

Longjumping_Act9758 · 2024-07-24T21:29:48+00:00

PUA probably works on drunk girls but in this day and age you're likely going to catch a lawsuit.

2024-07-24T22:42:36+00:00

Isn’t he working on a new book rn to update the current situation

Mojiitoo · 2024-07-25T05:59:09+00:00

I think PUA is outdated for sure. Who gets the girls? Confident, high status, attractive and fit men. PUA was just a tool to come across confident, but in the end girls will see through that. It should be coming from your inner self.

The basis is simply if your overall social perceived score is higher than hers, then you are in the zone that you can get the girl

Good thing is you can up yourself greatly. Get fit, get confident, get a graft on, and you’ll see how easy it is

stoicf · 2024-07-25T09:31:50+00:00

@generationmss on twitter

GymBroTRT · 2024-07-25T10:17:12+00:00

Just FYI, Mystery was never the biggest pua. He just happened to be the most famous because he dressed like a clown and spoke authoritatively to a bunch of virgins, although he himself barely had any success with women. And he tried killing himself twice over a woman.

Just Google him now and see what he looks like and ask yourself if that looks like the face of someone happy and content with life.

Independent-Lab774 · 2024-07-25T13:24:43+00:00

Tyler Durden aka Owen cook is your go to guy

HotAir25 · 2024-07-25T16:16:00+00:00

Saw him on Conan on YouTube and he came across as the lamest man imaginable…..zero charisma, pretending to be someone he wasn’t. If his method worked then it truly was a miracle.

HentaiMD · 2024-07-25T16:54:07+00:00

Techniques outdated yes, but the underlying principles remain the same

Wing_Inevitable · 2024-07-24T21:34:26+00:00

Is Mystery outdated?

No.

Who is today’s greatest PUA?

You will never meet them - they have lives outside of game.

I don’t think even 1 has an online presence - teaching a nerd about approach anxiety - is not really anyone is keen on doing.

You are probably asking about youtube. I don’t know - I find all of their games lacklustre. And the ones who have good game are people I would never endorse so …

Pick someone you like as a personality.

Edit : Ok one has 1000 friends on instagram - if that counts.

And why?

Cuz - why would you spend time dealing with losers for a small % of the money you would make otherwise.

No one enjoys the constant bitching and everyone telling you” you are wrong”

Hell I only do it cuz I get to get my fix of my worst tendencies. Like belittling people and other shit.

Is Mystery outdated? Who is today’s greatest PUA?

Comments

The Truth: An Uncomfortable Book About Relationships by Neil Strauss

Title	Is Mystery outdated? Who is today’s greatest PUA?
Author	1b992b
Upvotes	44
Comments	123
Date	July 24, 2024 8:42 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1ebc273/is_mystery_outdated_who_is_todays_greatest_pua/
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